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Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota

Ah yes, the T-pups.

I see another case of the blahs.

Spurs 84
Pups 79

Update [2008-2-21 17:49:32 by AusTechSpur]:Rick2G is on board for the recap.

Let's talk about Pop

Pop gets crap from the PTR crowd about three things:

  1. Not giving a shit about the regular season.
  2. Hating on young 'uns
  3. Giving Manu grief

I've talked about item #1 enough in other posts.  He seems to have a plan, it seems to work.

The Young 'Uns

I think he has done a pretty good job of developing some young players.  Tony was very raw when he came to the Spurs, and for good or bad, he is what he is because of Pop.  Manu came to the Spurs as a fairly mature basketball player, but Pop did a great job, IMHO, of allowing him to do his thing while also imposing the system on him.  No easy balance there.  I'm not even going to talk about Tim.  I could coach Tim.  

Others have come and gone with some success:  Stephen Jackson, Speedy Claxton, and Hedo Turkoglu.  All these guys left in pursuit of bigger contracts.  You have to give a lot of credit to Pop, and the rest of the coaching staff, in getting what they did out of Stephen Jackson.

Other have come and gone with less success:  Beno, Flight White, Darius, and Jackie Butler to name a few.  I think all of these guys fell into the class of talented but not super-talented.  Each of them would have been role players for the Spurs, but for whatever reason, were unable to fulfill those roles.  In the case of Beno, I think it was skill set.  He's a pick and shoot player.  Meaning he will do best  coming off a screen with the ball and shooting.  He's not nearly as good taking the ball to the hole on the screen and role.  Pick and shoot is not winning basketball.  A guy can get hot and hurt you in a game, as Beno did against us, but you can't win consistently with  that offense.  I believe White was wanted to be a defensive stopper in the Bowen mold.  I don't think he took to that role very well.    

Giving Manu Grief

Now seems like a good time to talk about after Pop jumped Manu's shit in the Bobcats game.  I'm glad he did.  Pop have made a concerted effort  this year to not allow the players to complain to the refs.  He's continually been on them to keep playing and this was the same thing.  Manu was  complaining/whining to the ref on a foul call when HE CLEARLY fouled him.  He hit the guy in the head and was still complaining.  How blatant does a  foul have to be for an NBA player to admit he fouled.  I think Pop wants the guys to quit bitching and keep playing.  You don't get every call, so move on.  Plus, the refs start to resent that shit.  If one team is constantly complaining and the other continues to play, who do you think the refs are going to  give a call or two to.  Rasheed 'T' Wallace, I don't think so.

I think this is probably a direct fall out of the Tim Duncan and Joey Crawford incident last year.  The Spurs might be waling a thin line  in the refs eyes right now.  By the way, I think Tim was just as culpable for the episode in Dallas as Joey was.  Both of them  acted unprofessionally.  Tim was clearly mocking the call on the bench and giving the refs shit.  If a ref is expected to act professionally  throughout a game, then a player should be too.  And Tim was acting unprofessionally.  He was getting paid about $250K for the game.   He can manage to act like it is a job for the whole 2 hours.

 The other Dallas thing with Manu, the foul.  I think Pop likes to harass him because he knows it doesn't matter to Manu.  Manu plays the  same either way.  He's fearless and relentless.  He never backs down from any situtation.  He doesn't change the way he plays in the last  two minutes because it means more.  It always, always means the same thing to him whether it's the first two minutes or the last two.   He'll take the big shot, attempt the tough pass, or drive to the hole no matter what the situation is.  He isn't afraid to fail.  So sure,  he fails sometimes.  But he succeeds many more times.  That's what makes him "Simply Erotic".

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Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
a bunch of us on here give Pop a ton of grief for some his personnel decisions - me included. that was a TON of names that have come and gone, i wonder how that compares to other NBA teams and, in particular, other perennial contenders in the league. he's definitely a tough guy to have as your boss. one of his philosophies must be: that which doesnt kill you only makes you stronger.  some guys can hack it and some cant.  thankfully, timmy, manu and frenchy can, and i suppose that's all that really matters (oh yeah, and potato head too).

i'm not too worried about how we interact with the zebras - or about manu and pop.  i still think the spurs tend to do less whining than the average team.  it seems like the zebras have individual bad relationships with players rather than teams anyway. everyone flops. manu and tim seem to have really dialed it back this year from my perspective.

as far as the game at minne goes?  definitely the doldrums, but i'll go with my standard score and predict that the spurs will shake the rust earlier than against charlotte:

spurs 92
minne 79

by bones on Feb 20, 2008 4:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
Spurs 90
Wolves 80
"Any time you see someone more successful than you are, they are doing something you aren't." - Malcolm X

by John E Sanford on Feb 21, 2008 12:26 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
Spurs 90
Wolves 75

You think that was a blatant foul? I've watched it a number of times, during the game, after the game, and on YT. I still see Manu getting all ball.

Regardless, do you think Pop would've treated Duncan like that? I'm not saying he shouldn't tell Manu off - he's the coach, after all - but he's always harder  on Manu than on the other stars. Or at least that's what it seems to me, an outsider.

If I have the opportunity to watch the game, I'll try to write a lameass recap.

by LatinD on Feb 21, 2008 6:34 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
it does not matter whether the call was good or bad. unless pop tells manu to complain about the calls, it's pop's job to complain. everybody else should just cut the whining and play to win the game.

as soon as you think the problem is out there, that thought is the problem.

by dmcnulla on Feb 21, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
can you post the YT link, can't seem to find it.

thx

"I don't play like this because I want to look pretty... I think people can really see I love the game." -M. Ginobili

by efantich on Feb 22, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
It's over in the diaries section with the title "video of Pop and Manu barking at each other".

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 22, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
thanks!
"I don't play like this because I want to look pretty... I think people can really see I love the game." -M. Ginobili

by efantich on Feb 23, 2008 1:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
I'm probably one of the biggest Manu homers around and I don't think Pop is too hard on Manu compared to the other players

What happened on the play was it looked like Manu was talking back to Pop..or something to that effect and Pop really got ticked off at him.

This year Pop has been the toughest on Barry and Bonner. I remember one game that Barry let a player go baseline for a lay-up and Pop called a timeout and tore him a new asshole!  And we know how he yells at Bonner or takes him out of games as soon as he puts him into one.

What was so suprising was that I've never seen Pop yell like that to Manu or Tim..he has done that many of times to Tony though...but I've all also never seen Manu talk back either! So it goes both ways.

by adam8065 on Feb 21, 2008 12:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
i've seen pop yell at tim like that, and manu.

by dmcnulla on Feb 22, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bring On The Hornets
SA:  97
MIN: 91

I just hope the Spurs aren't looking past this game to Saturday's matchup with New Orleans. The Wolves are still a legit NBA team and Al Jefferson's monster abilities have been discussed at length on here. But San Antonio needs to break out of this offensive slump, and quick. Maybe Tony coming back will be the catalyst they need!

by ATLBraves4Life on Feb 21, 2008 2:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
Nobody is on board for the recap as of yet.  Any volunteers?

I haven't done any recaps this year.  I'll get this one.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on Feb 21, 2008 3:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
The problem with Pop is that he has changed the fundamental direction of the team. The basics of good defense and championship basketball.

  1. Small ball sucks. You win with interior defense. Teams like the Warriors and Suns always flame out in the end. Check out the Laker-Suns game last night. Right after a furiouse Suns rally, a Laker guard made an easy layup. Gasol made a dunk...rally over. A parade of players cutting to the basket for gimmie layups and poster dunks saps a teams will to win and really pumps up the opposition and they don't have to expend to much energy simply throwing down at point blank. Giving up rebounds after a missed free throw is a unforgivable (see the Celtic game with no Garnet to boot). A horrible approach by Pop who always has had a collection of good defensive minded big me. This almost smacks of salary cutting as quality big men usually demand a good stack of lettuce. Not even attempting to draft a decent player and the botched Scola situation makes me wonder about the Spurs true motivation.

  2. The Spurs aren't defending the middle any more. A fundamental principal of winning defense. Even if you have Bill Russell protecting the basket, you do not give up the middle under any circumstance. Play a box and sag defense as most NBA teams do to compensate for the lack of quality perimeter defenders if you have to. Force the offensive player to the baseline. Why Pop suddenly believes that letting guys coast right down the pipe to the rim is OK, I can not figure out.

  3. Sweating to the oldies. Pop's complete obsession with creaky old players is baffeling. A mix of veterans and some youth is what the recipe for extended success calls for. Young guys bring excitement, hunger, energy, athletisicm and make the old guys feel even younger. Remember the disaster of 2000. Remember the Old Man River days when Porter tried to guard Kobe. I don't care to revisit those dim days.

  4. Pops good old boy attitude. Slapping and high fiving opposing coaches and players after your team just laid an egg is a sign of a jackass. A proffesional handshake is OK, but what he has been doing is pure jackassery. What kind of tone is he setting? Joking around during the game? Sitting on the bench not calling time outs when they are obviously needed? Uh? WTF? At the top of John Wooden's pryamid of success are POISE and Confidence. Pop has gone over the line to the point of just being arrogant.

  5. This Rudy T shit about flipping the switch when the playoffs come around is absolute garbage. Don't buy into this bullshit, I am telling you now. It is OK to manage players minutes, but to accept Timmeh's feather finger rolls at the rim which get swatted back on a nightly basis, to allow the team to get hammered on the glass night after night, allowing guys to penetrate straight to the hoop, to allow long long stretches where the Spurs can't make a defensive stop to save thier lives, to throw odd ball combinations of players on the floor with very little reason, to sit smuggly on the bench..all this should be and is worriesome. To quote the big L, "Winning is not a sometime thing: it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do the right thing once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing."

The playoffs are nearing and a 35 year old third string center with no hops isn't going to suddenly snap the Spurs out the funk they have been in.

Pop is slipping and some of the moves by the Spurs franchise in recent years require some pondering.

-Hannibal ad portas (Hannibal is at the gate!)

by ClintonsCigar on Feb 21, 2008 7:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
The Spurs are in a funk? Really? I thought they just finished 6-3 on a 9 game roadie with their 3rd best player missing the last 9 games. Guess I was wrong.

by JamesR on Feb 21, 2008 8:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
john wooden didn't call time outs to save his team.

by dmcnulla on Feb 22, 2008 6:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
I'm tired of hearing about scola.  We got rid of him because we didn't have room for him this year and the FO obviously thought Ian and Tiago were better big man prospects for next year.  And from what I've heard about Tiago overseas, and watching him this summer, I think they're right.  Would it have been nice to get more for him?  Sure.  But we didn't.  Oh well.

Also, Tony's back!  Yay!

by Krukow on Feb 21, 2008 9:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
SIMPLY EROTIC!

Manu Ginobili

44 points
13-18 FG
7-9 3PT FG
11-12 FT

I don't feel like looking this up right now, but has there ever been a more efficient swingman than Manu?

by JamesR on Feb 21, 2008 9:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
All the time, or just on his good nights?  Cuz Manu has his fair share of bad games too...

That said, holy hell, he keeps this shit up, he better get some sort of all-NBA nod.

by Krukow on Feb 21, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Manu G
Manu is always simply erotic... Bring on the Hornets.
"Any time you see someone more successful than you are, they are doing something you aren't." - Malcolm X

by John E Sanford on Feb 21, 2008 9:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread #53 - @ Minnesota
I counted five gentle "and 1" fouls by the Spurs.

Two consecutive WIDE OPEN three pointers in the third to bring the Wolves back due to Spurs helping out on the double team in the post and then getting confused on the rotations.

D still needs some work.

But, a win is a win. Let's take it.

Tim looks more aggressive in the defensive post I must say. The last two games, he has made some impact blocks. Fab too. He shut down Naz the last game when hands of stone missed 5 shots in a row.

The defensive plays by the Sickness stripping the ball and the last second total straightjacket on the penetrating Wolf may have been even more impressive than his offensive output. The drawing the flagrant on Telfair was the icing on the cake. The 6th man of the year trophy should have Ginobes name being etched on it right now.

This just in..Mike Finley will be appearing before a congressional committee to explain his recent shooting success. My theory involves genetic alteration, a time machine and Haitian voodoo. His pull up jumpers off the dribble were nice.

Was anybody present at the game? I heard the maintenance crew had to replace the net on the hoop at the far end of the court because Manu had stripped the cords out of it. All of his three pointers were dead nothing but net.

-Hannibal ad portas (Hannibal is at the gate!)

by ClintonsCigar on Feb 21, 2008 10:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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