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When Pop Says "Enough"

In DrumsInTheDeep's most recent (and most excellent) Pop Culture Lesson, a conversation began in the comments about what would happen if Pop ever lost "the team in Sloan-like fashion." This query caught my eye and made me put down some thoughts that have occurred to me over the last several months.

Gregg-popovich-306-306x391_medium
Like I'm even anywhere near to being done with this league.
via blog.mysanantonio.com

Star-divide

Last year, before a road game against Golden State, Pop gave a lengthy interview to Greg Papa (who used to do play-by-play for the Spurs TV broadcasts) in which he was as open and relaxed as I've ever seen him on camera before or since; I'd even use the word loquacious. (That is not, for those who've never stood among the gathered press as the coach entered the room to talk about a recently ended game, a word that leaps to mind when thinking of Gregg Popovich and the media.)

I don't know why he was so at his ease, nor do I feel like speculating about it (actually, I do quite feel like it, I'm just exercising my better judgment) but during the course of questioning, Pop alluded to the "I'll retire when Duncan retires" statement and talked about how he had moved on from feeling that way. After Jerry Sloan abruptly retired last year, a reporters asked Popovich before a game whether he could see his own career ending, and Pop stated that he wants to keep coaching for as long as he still feels passionate about doing it.

So (mikrobass3, here's my answer to your question) if he finds himself in a position where he has "lost his team" - then I expect that he'll be that much closer to no longer having the drive to continue the grind. I'd actually hazard a guess that such a case would only come from him having already lost his passion. A coach like Pop who can choose his team through his closeness to the GM, and who cares as much as he does about the character of an acquisition as he does his skill-set, a man like that won't lose a group like that, unless he's already checking out himself.

I don't think the likelihood of that happening is very high, but if it does occur, then I see Pop taking a different route than Sloan. He'd finish the season as best he could while letting Holt and company know his plans. Then after the season, with as little fanfare as possible, he'd retire.

• • •

Lately I've been thinking about Danny Green and Manu as being the main shooting guards once LWM ends. And since Mean Joe already shows signs of being able to have a bit of the Manu-sight as far as court vision and play creation are concerned - not to mention back-side steals, when to leave your man to block a shot from out of nowhere, and that kind of stuff.

And I've really been geeking out every time I think about Manu approaching Danny during practice, or pulling him aside during a game to walk the youngster through his thought process of attacking certain defenders, dealing with this kind of defense, reacting to a hedge like that by using this dribble and watching for a cutter from this direction which you could hit with this kind of pass after making that kind of fake and a head juke like this while looking away like that.

And while I've been tiring out those members of the PtR staff that have had the misfortune of being signed into their Google accounts during a game (sorry, silverandblack_davis) with little imaginary tidbits about how Manu is actually (a la PEN's Ginobili vs Dracula series) controlling Green during Mean Joe's time on the court. And while I've been attributing any missed shot or turnover to Manu's unfamiliarity with precisely how to best control him, I've finally decided to revise my expectations our young Greensleeves down, albeit as slightly as I can.

While Green's coming out party against the Nuggets (24 points in 33 minutes on 9 of 13 shooting, 3 of 3 from distance, seven rebounds, two assists and two steals) was certainly an eye-opener for guys like me who didn't really expect much of him coming into the season, that line doesn't seem to be anything that we're going to be able to expect from him for a good while.

So, to anyone else who's been waiting for Gruene to explode again every time he takes the court (or at least to put up some eyebrow raising numbers again) let's just agree to take a breath, have a soothing drink, and enjoy watching the kid as he develops at his own pace, bad passes, missed rotations, ugly drives and all.

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As long as Green keeps hustling on defense, and continues to show no fear on offense, I’ll be happy with his play, regardless of statistics.

Will argue against trading #45 until I am blue in the face and your eyes and ears are bleeding.

by SpursfanSteve on Jan 23, 2012 5:53 PM CST reply actions  

Also, good write up.

Will argue against trading #45 until I am blue in the face and your eyes and ears are bleeding.

by SpursfanSteve on Jan 23, 2012 5:53 PM CST up reply actions  

But he has to play within his skill set as well. When he does too much, it can get very ugly and negate what he does well. That said, i’ve been high on Green since they signed him. It’ll be nice for him to come off the bench and be Manu-like with the energy is smaller spurts.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 12:27 AM CST up reply actions  

He only does what is required of him. Right now, he’s having to be Manu, and he’s not- even though he does a pretty good imitation every now and then. When he only has to be a role player again, I think he’ll excel.

Will argue against trading #45 until I am blue in the face and your eyes and ears are bleeding.

by SpursfanSteve on Jan 24, 2012 12:34 AM CST up reply actions  

He’s gotten better at it, but did a little too much once he caught fire. That’s why Pop pulled him in that game. I’m happy to see him progressing and getting down more control. The more he stays himself though, the better off he is.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 1:03 AM CST up reply actions  

That “Manu controlling Green” idea is great on so many levels. Heh.

by DewNO on Jan 23, 2012 5:59 PM CST reply actions  

I’d love to see something from you on that in the same vein as your hashing it out piece on Brown and Kobe!

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 23, 2012 6:24 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

thanks for sharing. for the record, i tend to agree with you. the spurs will lose pop before pop loses the spurs.

what got me about the whole sloan thing was how quickly it went down. like a toilet flushing…

by mikrobass3 on Jan 23, 2012 7:17 PM CST reply actions  

It was definitely less of a protracted divorce, and more of an amputation.

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 23, 2012 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

amputation, yes. from the neck up!

by mikrobass3 on Jan 24, 2012 6:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Self-inflicted de-corpsization? Hmm.

Can’t go with decapitation, because it’s obvious that in this case, the head survived, and the body is in a slow decline that appears to be ending in death.

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 24, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

that reminded me of the first thirty seconds of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5zVbzWgByk

by mikrobass3 on Jan 24, 2012 6:17 PM CST up reply actions  

LOVED the Baron. Great fun in that movie.

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 25, 2012 2:01 AM CST up reply actions  

I just wish Anderson had Green’s mentality. Green doesn’t know he should be nervous. The guys is fearless and plays hard. What else could you ask for?

"Why didn't we draft Julyan Stone?" TJ73

by TrooperJoe73 on Jan 23, 2012 10:13 PM CST reply actions  

Spurs look for guys who tend to fall more on the side of Anderson than they do Green. But then, Green has been in the league for a few years. There’s definitely a desire there for him. That’s a big advantage for him.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 12:28 AM CST up reply actions  

I disagree. Pop always talks about wanting players who are always aggressive and unafraid of stepping up. Nothing gets you benched faster than playing passive or without confidence.

Will argue against trading #45 until I am blue in the face and your eyes and ears are bleeding.

by SpursfanSteve on Jan 24, 2012 12:35 AM CST up reply actions  

He wants them that way, but if we look at who the players they take look like, they tend to be on the quiet side. James, Leonard and George are good examples of that. That’s not to say Spurs haven’t had their share of players who were different than that, but the Spurs have that pattern. Character guys tend to have these similar traits. And in no way am I saying Green isn’t a character guy. He was that at UNC and hasn’t been any different.

However, Green has that and he has journeyed around trying to find a home. There’s a different mindset when you’ve journeyed around compared to coming out of college, like those guys. Well, Hill had a few years, so that’s a different story. it is what hindered him at San Antonio.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 1:06 AM CST up reply actions  

And I’m all for Green’s role. I’m happy to have him. I liked the UNC team he was one and liked him on that team. He stepped in and snatched what no one else wanted enough. Only Neal really got back without having to earn his minutes again.. Obviously the rules changed when Manu went down.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 1:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I think Neal earned those minutes last season, if Pop trust you then you are going to play.

"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobili

by spursfan87 on Jan 24, 2012 6:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, he did last season. He’s not the same this season. Whether all that is his fault or not, he still isn’t. When you’re part of the big 3 or Bowen (if he were still playing), that’s a different story.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 7:26 PM CST up reply actions  

and nothing gets you minutes more then playing defense. young players come to this organization thinking they have to score a lot of points. playing defense keeps you on the court. green and khawi have done that.

by RJSpurs20 on Jan 24, 2012 6:18 AM CST via Android app up reply actions  

Boy, have they!

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 24, 2012 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Although I feel like Leonard is losing time due to his lack of offense, although his D has trouble with getting around screens….

That and Neal’s time on court is all offensive based….

to throw another wrinkle in the basket…

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

If Pop can lose control of his team, than all the NBA coaches in the league without exceptiion are in danger.

"Kevin Garnett once described defending Tim Duncan as "trying to guard a tree"

by Chilai on Jan 23, 2012 11:24 PM CST reply actions  

I think in this type of season, it’s very easy with fatigue likely getting in the way.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 12:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Green has been great for us his D and energy. Don’t forget how good Tiago has been and could be better if the guys on the team were better passers. If we had Nash on the team he would have easy 30 points and 10 reb. a night.

by spurlover on Jan 24, 2012 12:33 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Still not buying Green, GM :)

But I am looking forward to his continued development as a Spur. No doubt, the man has high BBIQ.

by silverandblack_davis on Jan 24, 2012 4:11 AM CST reply actions  

You may not be buying, but I’m selling.

And after you read Fred’s recap of the Hornets game, you’ll know why the price is going up!

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 24, 2012 4:47 AM CST up reply actions  

What’s left to prove? I guess it depends on what level you expect him to be at.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Seeing as I’m trying to sell him Green as the next Manu (!) I don’t expect that he’ll ever be ready to buy. =]

And that’s why I was attempting to chill my irrational exuberance.

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 24, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, he’s not going to be Manu, if you saw any of his college career. but he can be a key contributor to a playoff team, like a Bowen or Horry. Just do a lot of the little things that make the difference.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Seeing as I’m trying to sell him Green as the next Manu

Easy there. That comes dangerously close to heresy :)

I love Green and I think there’s a little of Manu in there. His timing seems to be as good as Manu’s. He gets the crazy blocks and steals Manu gets. As an offensive player, I’m not sold yet. A lot of fluctuations in his performances. It could be that this is the first time in his career his getting this many minutes and he’s been thrown into the fire with Manu out. He went from being an afterthought to key bench player in a week, so I’ll cut him some slack. I’m looking forward to watching him once Manu returns.

"Deep down we all know that swagger comes hand in hand with insecurity. We strut not to convince competitors of our dominance; we strut to convince ourselves."
Matthew Powell

by Edg5 on Jan 24, 2012 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

He’s likely finally being scouted. That probably explains the drop off recently.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 4:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Green Green Green, (not that theres anything wrong with being Green.) I agree with everyone about how great he has been for us. Im huge on him this year, but no one is talking about how fearless ‘Top Shelf Tiago’ has started to become. He’s become huge on both sides of the ball lately, and literally….. a sleeping giant has awoken!!!

Parker in the post game was saying how he is now asking for the ball more and looking like the Spanish league MVP. Saying that he has never been as focused and aggressive wanting the rock before. To me, every time Tiago had the ball last season he would try to do some sort of disfunctional reverse layup and look as timid as Jackie Moon. Now he is trying to go top shelf over NBA centers without thinking about it. I love it!!!!!

The guy is going to be HUGE for us when Manu gets back feeding him the ball. Parker has already started to bridge well with him, but Splitter\Manu is going to end up being sick. If we can just hold things together until Manu gets back, then this team is going to be something special come playoff time.

(Getting Tiagos autograph on opening day, and told him that he’s this years X factor and that we believe in him)

Do or do not! There is no try!

by Spurs Yoda on Jan 24, 2012 9:48 AM CST reply actions  

The Tony/Tiago pick-and-roll is freaking deadly. Now Tony has two bigmen who can run the PnR to perfection, and I’d say his career high assist average(this year) is not a fluke at all.

The longest, brightest day is followed by the darkest night.

by Tim C. on Jan 24, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Good point.

They definitely looked comfortable running it last night!

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 24, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Since he has it down with Duncan, and Tiago is so good at it, it’s just so interchangeable.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Yoda, be patient, I have something in the works for a longer piece on Tiago. When I see it you won’t even remember this little footnote that I dropped here on Mean Joe.

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 24, 2012 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Sweet. I can’ t wait to see it.

Do or do not! There is no try!

by Spurs Yoda on Jan 24, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Pop is going to stop when Pop’s ready. As we all know, ready in Pop terminology is a long time.

by indiancharlie on Jan 24, 2012 9:59 AM CST reply actions  

We know he’s not crazy with playing rookies, so how excited is he going to be about stepping aside to let a new guy take over? Even if it’s someone with previous NBA coaching experience, it’s still likely to be a guy that Pop will VIEW as a rookie, whether or not he is.

So, of course, he’ll be putting it off for as long as possible, in true C.I.A. Pop style.

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 24, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Regarding Green. Have you noticed how he acts. All our great players have secure way about themselves. He has it and without mentioning any names, some do not.

by indiancharlie on Jan 24, 2012 10:21 AM CST reply actions  

Yeah, he really DOES have that calmness. And I’ll go ahead an mention one name at least — you do NOT want that J.R. Wilco character to have the ball in his hands come crunch time. NBA guards just eat that guy alive! I don’t have the stats at hand right now, but they’re NOT pretty. Trust me.

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 24, 2012 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I’ve really been geeking out every time I think about Manu approaching Danny during practice, or pulling him aside during a game to walk the youngster through his thought process of attacking certain defenders, dealing with this kind of defense, reacting to a hedge like that by using this dribble and watching for a cutter from this direction which you could hit with this kind of pass after making that kind of fake and a head juke like this while looking away like that.

Yo tambien.

"You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -Davy Crockett
"Give me an army of West Point graduates, and I'll win a battle. Give me a handful of Texas Aggies, and I'll win a war." -Gen. George S. Patton

by Trey Felder on Jan 24, 2012 11:08 AM CST reply actions  

Te siento, hermano.

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 24, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the love, JRW!

"You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -Davy Crockett
"Give me an army of West Point graduates, and I'll win a battle. Give me a handful of Texas Aggies, and I'll win a war." -Gen. George S. Patton

by Trey Felder on Jan 24, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

This was fun, almost as much fun as Pop’s HOF speech will be.

"Sometimes I think I lost something really important to me, and it turns out I already ate it."

by DrumsInTheDeep on Jan 24, 2012 12:56 PM CST reply actions  

Talking about Coach Pop,

If I had one gripe about him, it’s utilizing all of his pieces effectively. I am concerned how guys like Green and Leonard will fair once T.J. and Manu get back. Obviously were much better with Manu and T.J. I just think in controlled bursts Green and Leonard will take this team to another level. Same goes for Tiago especially. It’s a tough juggling act with so many pieces.

I honestly would say our team has 9-10 good pieces with only 1 great(manu) so to have a great team we have to use every player at the right moment in a game. A very tough thing to do

good better best, never let it rest, until your good is better and your better is best

by seanthemonster on Jan 24, 2012 4:01 PM CST reply actions  

Well, it should go better on them. They can play within themselves a lot more. Both were put in positions where the need for scoring is great. Neither fit the bill, especially Leonard, at this point.

Winter is coming

by grego21 on Jan 24, 2012 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with this and I think Pop should use a “swiss army knife” approach with our team once Manu and TJ come back. Put Manu with the guys that are working well against the other team. Matchups should determine minutes.
Sloppy, back and forth game? Put Green’s all around game.
The other team is ISOing a player a lot? Unleash the Leonard on him.
They are daring us to shoot 3’s? Put Neal in
We are lackin interior defense and rebounding? Put the Twin towers in.
They have poor post defenders? Put the twin towers in and lets exploit them.
We need to move the ball better? TJ and Manu get in.
We want to make the other team laugh? Put Bonner in.

"Kevin Garnett once described defending Tim Duncan as "trying to guard a tree"

by Chilai on Jan 25, 2012 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you suggesting that a hailstorm of three pointers makes our oppenents start to GOL?

The 2012 season: the Spurs have a chance, but only if Manu can be Manu in the playoffs. - CapHill
Pounding the Rock

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 25, 2012 5:27 PM CST up reply actions  

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