Potentially Great? The Spurs' Role Players
by Fred Silva on Aug 3, 2010 4:17 PM CDT
in Analysis
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PrintAt this point, we are all very familiar with Tim, Tony, and Manu. Barring injury, these guys will give it their all to get the Spurs back to the finals. In addition, we know what Bonner and McDyess are all about. Bonner will spread the floor and McDyess will be a competent, veteran big man who will never negatively impact the team. However, our fate is not solely controlled by these guys. As we witnessed last season, the Spurs' veterans can only go so far without help. Given the suddenly stacked nature of the NBA, we will need Tiago Splitter, George Hill, DeJuan Blair, and Richard Jefferson to step up in a big way.
This is all about potential, and admittedly, I set the bar very high. However, the potential I describe for each player is very attainable. Our role players possess all the necessary physical traits. It's just a matter of hard work and a little bit, (okay, maybe a lot,) of luck. So, let's begin.
Potentially
Tiago has an extremely high basketball IQ. We need his intelligence to shine on the basketball floor. His athleticism is lacking, so he'll need to anticipate as well as Oberto used to on the defensive end. We need him to move without the ball and score off of offensive rebounds and hustle plays. We have so many players on the roster that require the ball to be productive, Tiago would be a perfect fit for us if he could positively contribute without having plays called for him.
And what is Bill Lambeer doing here, you might ask? Well, I would really like it if Tiago brought some physicality to the team. McDyess is a physical player, but at 6'9", his presence is limited. If Tiago can bring a 'Bill Lambeer' mean streak to the team, that would be optimal. I'm only asking for a few hard fouls at the rim, preferably on Lebron. It's not too much to ask, is it? In addition, Lambeer had a nice offensive game. He had a few very reliable post moves and also was adept at facing up from 15 feet and creating. Tiago has the potential to be a dominant big man in the league and I'm very excited to see how he plays this November.
Potentially
I know this will sound blasphemous, but when the Tony Parker trade rumors were being thrown around, I responded with, "Yes, please." And it's not because I'm a Tony Parker hater. He's one of the better point guards in the league and few can match his skill in the open court. I wanted the trade to happen because I want to know, how good is George Hill, really? Regardless of what Nash did to him in the playoffs, George is a very good defensive player. Can he be a great defensive player? I believe so. He just needs the playing time and opportunity to learn. Pippen was one of my favorite players growing up because the guy could defend anyone. His long arms and quick feet gave his opponents fits. Although shorter in stature, George Hill possesses the same athleticism that allowed Scottie Pippen to be a great defender.
Pippen was also a great spot up shooter. Last year was a promising one for Hill's jumper. I went from screaming, "No!" every time he took a three to screaming at Tony, "Pass the ball! Hill is open in the corner!" If Hill can master the open jumper, his ceiling will jump.
Rajon Rondo is a great creator and is deadly in the open court. He has the same body as Hill: wiry, super long arms, and quick feet. Rondo lacks a jumper, which is why Kobe was able to play 6 feet off of him in the playoffs and take away his drive. Hill's jumper already commands the respect of his defenders. If we give Hill the opportunity, he just might be an NBA star. Not just a solid role player, but a legitimate All Star. Let the "Free George" chants commence.
Potentially
In the comments section of a recent post, I was asked if I thought DeJuan Blair could be a Wes Unseld type player or if this was just not the right era for a 6'7" big man. Well, I think DeJuan proved to us last year that he can be a very productive player in today's NBA. Charles Barkley showed us how a 6'7" big man can be extremely effective against taller players. As far as I can tell, all that DeJuan is lacking is a short jumper and some playing time. Barkley was a match-up nightmare for his opponents because when he was guarded by a taller player, he would take him 15 feet from the basket and use his speed to get to the rim. His jumper demanded the respect of the taller players so they could not play him for the drive. When a smaller player attempted to guard Barkley, he would take them to the post and use his big body to dominate.
Sources reported that Pop has been working with Blair to develop his jumper. If DeJuan can hit it with consistency next season, he will be close to unguardable. The addition of Tiago should help to cover up DeJuan's weaknesses on the defensive end. I hope to see the Tim/Tiago, Blair combination used early and often next season.
I threw in a picture of Rodman because Blair has a knack for the ball. Rodman always seemed to be in the right place at the right time. It was no accident. He worked relentlessly to get good rebounding position, sometimes for the Bull's entire possession. I witnessed Blair display this same determination last season. So where is Blair's ceiling? I have no idea. I just know that he is no where close to it yet.
Potentially
Minus
I want Richard Jefferson to be Stephen Jackson minus the crazy. RJ already has the slashing, penetrating ability that Jackson gave us as a Spur. In addition, RJ is arguably the superior athlete. What RJ is lacking is a consistent jumper. Without a shot that commands respect, defenders are able to play him for the drive, thereby negating his greatest strength. Furthermore, it kills the Spurs flow when RJ passes on wide open shots. Tim, Tony, and Manu force defenses to collapse into the paint, leaving our shooters wide open. When our shooters are unable to punish the defense for leaving them, it significantly lowers the probability of a Spurs victory.
The problem is, gaining confidence in your shot is not a science. There is no confidence formula that guarantees success. An inch off from twenty five feet away is the difference between a bucket or a miss, confidence or despair. Hopefully RJ finds his shooting stroke during the off season. If he can shoot 40% from distance again, his contract extension will be more than justified. The lanes to the basket will open up and he will be demanding the ball, rather than passively hiding on the floor.
I get the feeling that this season will define RJ's existence with the Spurs. If it goes well, fantastic. If not, I feel as if he has a little crazy in him. We do not need the Artest up and downs. We do not need the crazy Artest shot selection. And we definitely do not need him chasing the owner's bus in his underwear.
More than any other player, RJ controls our fate. It sucks, I know, but when he plays well winning comes much easier to the Spurs. In wins last season, RJ shot 49% FG, 39% 3P%, while scoring 13.5 points. In losses, 43% FG, 21% 3P%, while scoring just 10.4 points. Simply, when RJ is rolling, the Spurs are a great team. We need to do whatever we can to build his confidence. We need consistency and accuracy from him. If RJ can deliver, and I know it's a big 'if,' the Spurs will be a very dominant team next season.
Every team has 'ifs,' by the way. I do not think it's a bad thing, more a reality of the NBA. If Oden and Yao can remain healthy, the Blazers and Rockets will be dangerous. If Lebron and Dwight learn low post moves, the Cheats and Magic would be close to unstoppable. If the Lakers had a soul, they wouldn't be the Lakers. And if Richard Jefferson improves, the Spurs will be a true contender. It is an 'if,' but it's an 'if'' that I feel good about.
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Great post. Any one of the guys you singled out could be in for a bigger role and bigger minutes than we expect (well not RJ, he’s expected to play 38 minutes a game).
It’s just hard to say which guy is gonna make the leap. Last year it was Hill and if there’s an injury ahead of him again he will have to make another. Tiago we don’t know what to reasonably expect, especially with the frontcourt so crowded.
I agree that most of our other players are who they are and we should be looking to these guys, Anderson and the deep bench when we look for evolution.
My beef with Rondo in the Lakers series is that he made way too many mistakes. Lots of unforced turnovers that somewhat negated his offensive contributions. I think that Hill is actually ahead of Rondo in this regard. But I do get the physical comparison.
The big difference between Rondo and Hill is that Rondo has shown that he is a true PG (9.8 assists to 3 turnovers). Hill is really still a SG or at best a combo guard (2.9 assists to 1.3 turnovers.)
Would Hill ever get to that point if he played more PG? Maybe, but he still has a long way to go in that regard.
Also, I know defense is not just steals (in fact that stat can be deceptive), but I do like Rondo’s 2.3 steals per game (in 7 more minutes) as compared to Hill’s .9 per game.
Rondo shoots a very nice percentage, but stinks from outside (kind of like Tony)
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
A player who frequently goes for steals is more likely to get out of sound defensive position, something the Spurs do not like happening for good team defense. If Rondo were a Spur, he would drive me crazy.
Funny how Manu never drives me crazy that way. :)
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 3, 2010 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Two questions: (1) Are we going to have a better defensive squad this season? (2) Who is going to be our backup 3?
Anyone have any answers?
I have an answer to the first question, a definitive ‘yes.’ Tiago is the difference. Not only will his size be beneficial on the defensive end, his presence on our roster will lessen the need to play small ball, which is always defensively weak. Even if Pop chooses to not play Tiago with Tim, the presence on a 6’11" big on the floor will be a huge improvement over last season’s squad.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
Yeah, I’m hoping that one of Tim or Tiago is on the court at all times while the result of the game is still in doubt. None of this Bonner/Blair frontcourt nonsense.
Tony apologist since 2010.
Bonner/Blair is an effective front court, especially for the regular season haul. They both make up for each other’s weaknesses while appropriately spacing the floor for each other.
They were + .298 points per minute over 472 minutes of play together last season….that is our highest duo outside of ones containing Finley, Temple, or Mahinmi (all with a fraction of that minute total)
Neither one makes up for the other’s defensive weakness, though. That’s what I would be worried about, but we’ll see how it shakes out.
Tony apologist since 2010.
Do they have that statistic for the playoffs? They were awful in the playoffs. I mean, they were destroyed to the point that you can throw the regular season stat out the window. At least, that’s what I remember. Of course, I tend to see Bonner in the most negative light possible.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
I tend to see Bonner in the most negative light possible.
I’d like to nominate the above for PtR Understatement of the Month.
Can I get a second?
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
Hehe, sure, why not?
"I like the fact that he’s a man." – Hubie Brown on DeJuan Blair
by Manu ex Machina on Aug 4, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
When I first read the fanpost I was pretty surprised how much restraint Fred showed when discussing Bonner. Is this a kindler gentler Fred?
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
My hypothesis:
As emotional as Fred is, he’s also pragmatic. 2010 was the last year of Ginger’s contract, so Mr. Silva campaigned against Mudbutt and would argue with anyone who thought that Matt really helped the team when on the court. Change one mind, and you can change ten. Maybe public opinion would eventually make its way into the Spurs front office.
But when Bon-Bon was re-signed, Fred came to terms with the fact that the Red Rocket is here to stay, and fighting it any longer is pointless; perhaps his minutes will be limited now that Splitter is in S.A. and the damage can be controlled somewhat.
Either that, or he’s taking the summer off of the Bonner-hate, and will be right back in the mix when the season kicks off.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
I’m very optimistic about the upcoming season. I think the extra year of experience playing together is going to be huge for us. How many close games did we lose last year? It felt like 15ish. I think we’ll win at least half of those games that we lost in spite of a double digit lead or a 5 point lead late. So that’s tempered my Bonner hate.
In addition, as you pointed out, I think Tiago is going to get a lot of minutes this season. I really don’t have a problem with a 10-15 minute ginger. I just couldn’t stand a ginger starting.
But my hate is still there. Once the season begins I’m sure I’ll go on another Red Rant, with FARS included. Thanks for the concern, though.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
How many close games did we lose last year? It felt like 15ish.
We started out 1-7 when the margin was 7 points or less at the end of regulation. We ended the season 10-20 in these “close” games.
At one point in January we were 3-9 in these close games, 20-4 in “not-close” games. That’s why Hollinger kept ranking us high, our point differential was a lot better than our record.
by doggydogworld on Aug 4, 2010 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
(gulp) they do have the playoffs, but they only list the top 50 two man units for each team by total +/- in all minutes played…..in however many minutes they played together, the Spurs were worse than -11 (Mason and Hill)…..
we only had 14 tandems lineups with positive +/-’s in the playoffs
Duncan/Parker owns the top spot with +21 points
Manu/Parker and Dice/RJ tie for second at +16
Bonner’s only tandem with a positive margin is with Duncan at +8 in 95 minutes
Blair’s only positive tandems were Temple at +1 in 12 minutes and Dice with +9 in 5 minutes
I know we avoided playing Duncan and Blair together but I can’t believe we also avoided playing Blair with Dice too, 5 lousy minutes where they dominated the opponent by almost 2 points per.
Answer to both is only time will tell. As for some speculation: at the back-up 3 it is thought that anderson will see min here, if Gee makes it through training camp he’ll play the 3 too, though probably spend some time in austin. Also, in my opinion, in a pinch we can put manu at the 3, though this is less than ideal.
As for the D, the theory goes that if tiago can improve the interior D, the perimeter players can stay on their man and play better D like in years past.
by RamblingSpur on Aug 3, 2010 5:07 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Increasingly, I’m starting to believe the Spurs want Anderson to back up the 3. He’s used to playing the position at OSU, and the 2 is pretty damned crowded with Manu/Temple/Neal/Hill.
Tony apologist since 2010.
The longer we’ve gone without the spurs making a move for a backup sf via trade or signing even an emergency 3 like bogans is making me think that somebody from our top notch backcourt is going to be asked to give some min out of position to free up some min at the 2, whether its anderson or manu. Its not really smallball if you still have 2 bigs in with 3 gaurds… You just have to play a bit smarter on defense
by RamblingSpur on Aug 3, 2010 7:51 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Cap, if she weren’t on vacation, would call B.S. on this.
Didn’t she say in her Anderson post, that he wouldn’t/shouldn’t be used as an NBA 3?
Or did I imagine that?
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
I guess it’s better late than never to respond, since I have returned from the Left Coast.
I think Anderson is too small to play defense on opposing SF starters. However, I think he could probably do okay against backups, since they tend to be smaller. I agree with Tim and bj1der that Anderson and Gee will probably be fighting for minutes at the 3. However, we are talking about Pop, so who knows what lineup he’s going to throw out there.
Cap, didn’t Anderson have to play D on opposing players that were taller than him in college? I was pinning my hopes on that as a factor working in his (and the Spurs’) favor if he were called on to play the 3 in the NBA.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 10, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but NBA athletes are a different sort of beast. Physically strong big SFs like Carmelo and LeBron would overwhelm him, but he could do fine against smaller/weaker SFs. But there will be a learning curve for him on defense. I’d be surprised if RJ doesn’t log around 35 mpg this season for the reason that the Spurs don’t really have a true SF backup right now.
True. But we won’t be asking Anderson to guard ‘Melo or LeBron, his assignment would be the opposing teams’ backup SF. Surely that could make it possible for him to successfully eat minutes as the Spurs’ backup 3?
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 10, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I agree he could log time at backup SF. I’m more and more convinced that with the roster as it’s currently constructed, Gee and Anderson will be fighting for the backup SF spot. That just makes the ability of RJ to play lots of minutes more important, as was the signing of Splitter. Small ball with 3 “guards” and 2 legitimate bigs is waaaaaay better than small ball with RJ at the 4 spot.
I like the Twin Towers 2.0 with three guards/wings too. I wouldn’t even be opposed to having Blair be one of the bigs, assuming that he can play well on offense with Timmy (or Splitter) and his D holds up.
Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 10, 2010 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice post, and I wanted to say that Barkley, who I saw in person once, is a really short six foot seven, like more of a six foot five—six foot seven. He was practically eye to eye with me. That made me respect his ability all the more.*
*His ability to eat.
Good post, we definitely have some potential on this squad. I’m excited to see what Splitter can do although I think it’s hard to judge how a player from over seas will adjust to the NBA.
I don’t think Hill will ever be a run the show type PG. He’ll always need to be surrounded by guys who can get it done on their own. Still, I like his scoring and defensiv potential. I’d love to see him continue to develop in his combo guard role. It gives us a lot of fexibility.
Blair may be closer to Rodman than we think. He averaged 12.7 board per 36 min last year, Rodman didn’t break this mark until his fifth year. Rodman was also an efficient, although not prolific, scorer. Blair had a 56 TS% his rookie year. He’s already extremely productive, he just needs to learn his rotations better and develop his jumper to better fit into our offensive scheme.
I never get why people like Stephen Jackson so much. He’s an inefficient scorer who likes to shoot. I’d rather RJ not emulate him on the offensive end. The main thing I want from RJ is to rebound like he did in the second half and take what’s given to him.
Here’s why I remember him fondly. Conference Finals against Dallas in the Championship 2003 season.)
Game 1: 8 pts
Game 2: 17 pts
Game 3: 12 pts
Game 4: 17 pts
Game 5: 20 pts
Game 6: 24 pts (44 minutes, 8-14 FG, 5-7 3P, 1TO; Our leading scorer in a low scoring 90-78 victory)
He was fearless. That’s what I want from RJ; Fearlessness. Oh, and points when it matters most.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
I remember that season fondly, jackson was manu-like in his ability to hit crazy off balanced shots, and at that point in our dynasty run jackson was probably the most clutch spur, I definately wanted him taking a 3 for the game… Yes, fearless indeed, and he was an inforcer
by RamblingSpur on Aug 3, 2010 5:56 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah. Even though his efficiency stats aren’t that great, he’s basically a badass. Confidence was RJ’s problem last year – in that respect, Jax is the anti-RJ.
Tony apologist since 2010.
inefficient scoring is terrible. Taking bad shots really hurts the team because it usually results in the other teams possession. Yeah Stephen Jackson’s talent and “fearlessness” leads to great games and series, but overall he hurts his team with his poor shot selection. Last year he had a 51.8 TS% while taking 17.8 shots a game. Not good.
Yes, but Jackson has been playing for some bad teams that require him to carry a big offensive load, hence taking more shots than perhaps he should. I think he could be a great asset as a second or third option on a top tier team. Not that I think the Spurs are going after him or anything.
What’s TS%? Is 51.8 a bad number for this? I plead ignorance.
“What’s TS%?”
It’s a better indicator of scoring efficiency then FG%. For example a 40% shooting % is bad. However, if you a player shot that while only taking 3 pointers he’d be very good. Or if he got to the line on ever other play and shot 90% from the line. So FG% doesn’t tell the whole story. The formula is pts/(2*(FGA+.44*FTA)). So this formula is an improvement because it values 3 pt shooting and FTs.
Also, I know it’s good because it passes the Manu Ginobili test for statistical analysis. The test is “Does this stat highly rate Manu Ginobili?” If yes, it’s good.
" Is 51.8 a bad number for this?"
Yeah, he’s in a tie for 233rd place this year.
Also, I know it’s good because it passes the Manu Ginobili test for statistical analysis. The test is "Does this stat highly rate Manu Ginobili?" If yes, it’s good.
Awesome.
Tony apologist since 2010.
What site has TS%? I want to check it out.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
He’s really not joking. Every advanced statistical measure known to man loves Manu Ginobili. The two groups who think Manu is a top 5 SG are Spurs fans and stat geeks.
Yeah he murdered Dallas, which is awesome and as Spurs fans we should always appreciate that. Maybe the dude just doesn’t like Dallas. He had a 60 TS% against Dallas with GS in 2007. I guess he contributed to two titles.
Still his “Fearlessness” usually translate into high volume, inefficient scoring. Even with the amazing 2003 Dallas series he only had a 53 TS% for that playoffs. He could stand to add a little situational awareness.
I wanted to look him up and put Jack under the microscope to defend him, but man the more I see the worse it looks.
His profile is a player who almost always takes the most possessions on offense, and is almost always the least efficient with his possessions. Every single team he’s been on, there are better first and second options but SJack does not defer to them.
He does have strengths but very rarely do players get such a big offensive role and time after time fail to deliver. And boy has he been on some stinky stinky defensive teams too.
The spurs have always lived and died by our role players, malik rose, danny ferry, steve kerr, robert horry, even devin brown, saved countless games as spurs. Simply look at the difference between last year’s squad and the year before – the difference a performing roger mason jr made.
I think we have to attribute our never ending ability to get star performances out of our role players to the spurs’ system, which allows role players to carve out well defined niches, and the dominance of Tim Duncan forcing the opposing defense to double-team him, and then passing around the horn in classic spurs fashion to the most open man.
We can still do this without tim drawing a consistand double team, we just need to use what we’ve got (tiago and duncan together, maybe blair soon) to attack the interior enough to force opposing D’s to send a help defender into the post, and then pass out to the perimeter to take advantage of the same 3 on 2 mismatch that the double team creates. Playing inside-out has always really worked for us
by RamblingSpur on Aug 3, 2010 6:11 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Also, I agree that role players make the difference on any championship team. Two role players that the Spurs have not been able to replace, at least not yet, are Bruce Bowen and Robert Horry. Think about all the little things those two guys did: shots, blocks, stops and forced errors, and so many of them in must-have, game-on-the-line situations, and in the most important games. It may be true that Duncan, Ginobilli and Parker are showing their age, but I think the loss of Bowen and Horry has been an equally big drag on the last few seasons.
With Tiago, I think we have successfully replaced Oberto, finally. Do Hill, Bonner, McDyess, Blair, Anderson, Jefferson, Neal and company have enough magic in them to replace Horry and Bowen? That’s an open question for me, as of now.
Barkley was a match-up nightmare for his opponents because when he was guarded by a taller player, he would take him 15 feet from the basket and use his speed to get to the rim.
I can’t recall noticing this trait in Dejuan. What he does do, he does very well; but I can’t recall seeing him drive with the ball all that often.
He couldn’t drive because no one respected his shot. If he starts hitting it, the drive will be there. I thought he showed quickness to the basket on the pick and roll as well as the ability to adjust his shot in midair to get around defenders.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
He seemed to move well without the ball, had excellent hands and a very good passer per my memory. Dribbling the ball I don’t recall seeing much of.
he has decent handles an is fairly quick for how big he is. Barkley was way more athletic than is Blair though. But with his size and quickness Blair could be a really good pro if he works on his jumper and using his body effectively on defense
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Aug 3, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
He doesn’t dribble all that much, often he’ll just swing a massive pivot foot toward the basket and jump. If fact, did anyone else ever think last year that dejuan was launching to the basket for his dunk/lay up from awkwardly far away on occasion or only taking one step and no drible when he should have put it on the floor? I’m pretty sure he knows better, and its made me think that maybe as a rookie dejaun was actually trying to run up his teammate’s assist numbers. I seriously think he was trying to give manu a tripple double sometimes compromising his own shot (perhaps knowing he’d just get the rebound and try again if he missed).
by RamblingSpur on Aug 3, 2010 8:03 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I have seen games where in space he would handle the ball some and looked like he knew what he was doing. I am not saying he is Pistol Pete or anything but in short distances he can make decent quick moves left or right handling the ball and he doesn’t look to awkward. I will admit around the rim with the trees sometimes he goes up odd. I think with his size he should initiate contact with the taller thinner bigs. Even Pau Gasol said good things about Blair at the Celebrity game during the all star break. He told the reporters that Blair is a good player and he informed him to work on his left hand finishes around the basket to be more effective. It was pretty cool to hear that he gave the young guy advice.
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Aug 3, 2010 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
hard to say “he should have put it on the floor” when he was able to finish most of the time. Yeah, he launched from a lot of different, awkward angles, but so does Manu.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 3, 2010 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Blair still reminds me more of Wes Unseld and Wayne Embry than Barkley. They played many years ago as basically undersized centers but were all-stars. I’m not quite sure how their matchups went against Wilt Chamberlin or Kareem, but they both made it into the Hall of Fame. (I suppose youngsters would be lucky to remember them as being G.M.s).
Looking at FT% as some indicator of the ability to hit an outside shot:
Barkley hit .733 his rookie year, .735 for his career.
Embry hit .656 his rookie year, .640 for his career.
Unseld hit .605 his rookie year, .633 for his career.
Blair had a .547 free throw percentage his rookie year, can we really expect that he will suddenly learn how to hit an outside shot?
Bruce Bowen was a career 57.5% FT shooter yet hit 40% of his 3s for the Spurs.
by doggydogworld on Aug 4, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
And Tim always struggles at the line yet is automatic from the range that we need Blair to shoot.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
I hadn’t really intended to be making the point that free throw percentage is the best indicator as much as that usually by the time reaches the NBA their shooting is what it is. Bruce’s 3 point % fluctuated some over the years, likely due more to the number of attempts than learning to shoot. The shot that Tim is automatic on he likely was hitting in college as well. Blair might improve simply by repetition, but if that solved shooting problems why doesn’t are free throw shooting improve with practice?
It is perhaps possible that proper coaching and rebuilding one’s shot after reaching the NBA might improve one’s shooting abilities, it just seems fairly unlikely. Otherwise why worry about making good picks in the draft, bring in someone from the track team and let Chip show them how to shoot.
I think it is possible that the reason Blair was available at the point we got him in the draft had less to do with his lack of ACL’s and more to do with he was looked at as a 6’6" center. Pop likely looks at him as a short center.
He might pick up the skills needed to play as a PF, but I wouldn’t count on it. I think he is great at what he does, and I’d be happy to see him given the chance to do it while surrounding him with others that complement his weaknesses.
If you’re wondering about whether a player’s shot can be improved after coming to the NBA, you need look no further than our own Frenchie. It comes down to this: when Tony came into the league, he simply did not have the jumpshot he has today. Do you remember how he used to lean as he set his feet? Do you remember how teams would sag off him? Do you remember cringing when he’d launch a jumper?
He’s better than he used to be, and it’s not even close.
Now if you want to say that players don’t often improve their free throw % from where they begin their NBA career, your numbers seem to support that, but your sample size is rather small.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
+1 JRW
There are plenty of people who have prolonged or created a career in the NBA by learning how to shoot. Free throw shooting is a little more mental than what most people would think.
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Aug 6, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Blair spent much of the first year completely rebuilding his free throw technique with Chip England (sp?). I think if a 21 year old rebuilds his shot and gets proper coaching that was never done, he can improve it dramatically.
Blair's Hotspots
I was just looking at Dejuan’s “hotspots” per nba.com/hotspots which show 443 of his 495 shots were taken from right under the basket, with another 48 from just a few feet away. One other looks like a buzzerbeater throw that missed. Of the 5 shots that look to be mid-range, he made 2. Not a bad percentage actually, maybe he just needs to shoot more.
His shot selection looks fairly similar to Dwight Howard’s, who took 707 of his 834 shots from just under the basket (or over as the case may be).
As far as Blair’s ball handling and shooting go, I think what we’ve seen is due to the instructions he’s received from the coaching staff.
I imagine it went something along the lines of, “DeJuan, do you want to shoot? Fine, just make sure you’re close to the basket. You get one dribble and/or one move. After that, you’re either shooting or passing. Understood? Great!”
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
Yeah, Pop said on multiple occasions that nothing was run for Blair. He was just out there to rebound and see what happened. Most of his highlight reel plays were off of Manu passes after Manu had already disrupted the defense. I don’t think Pop was telling him to float away from the basket on offense unless he is coming out to set a pick which is a “no rebound” situation.
No doubt that is correct, and no doubt they gave those instructions for a reason. I’m not saying it’s impossible for a player to improve his outside shooting after he joins the NBA, just that improvements that are anything more than slight are rare. It seems almost taken for granted that Blair will develop a mid-range jump shot by working with Chip, I’m not counting on it. I’d love to see him get more playing time even if he doesn’t and just continues with the style he has already shown
I’ll agree that expectations are high for Blair. It seems that PtRockers aren’t just wanting him to add a mid-range jumper, but to also develop a Barkley-esque, back-’em-down, relentless low post game as well, while improving as a defender, and maintaining (if not improving) his rebound rate.
Out of all of the above, I’d list them in order of high probability to low: rebounding, jump shot, killer post game, defense — while maybe swapping the last two.
I’m all about rooting for the best, while tempering that with real-world practical thinking; and since it’s the off-season, the time is ripe for rank optimism.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
At the college level, Blair had that post game. He showed it against Amare a couple times in the Phoenix series. I’m not saying it’s great, but i’m saying it doesnt have to be developed from scratch. The foundation is there.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 5, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I’m with you, SfS, but post play isn’t currently a strength for Blair playing in the NBA. The fact that his foundation is already in place is a help, but he’s still got a ways to go before the team will be comfortable with him posting up as a regular part of his game.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
This one is at least a bit like the original. Bit of a change, bit of consistency.
A couple of times a year I try out a new avatar, just to see. But I’ve always come back to old reliable.
Besides, SiMA recently said something complimentary about the fact that I hadn’t changed my avatar, so that probably had something to do with it too.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
I think there are defensive tasks that may be easier to learn than others. It may for instance be easier for him to learn team defense than learn how to guard true centers straight up. It could also be the opposite. I just think there is so much within the one category of defense, that there are surely tasks that he can easily improve upon.
Blase, I agree with you about the different skills required to play defense, and the different ways that defense can be played.
I guess that when I ranked defense last for Blair, I was thinking of it as not simply improving, but becoming a complete player defensively. And since that takes time, it’s not something I expect to see from him this year — which is something else I neglected to include in my last comment, time frame.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
cool, makes sense
i just think we will see some defensive improvement this year for sure…but he definitely will not be complete
I’ll be happy if we see any improvement at all in his D. He’s still so young and there’s so much to learn that if he’s able to take all of the knowledge I’m sure they’re giving him, without taking a step backwards before making strides, then I’m ecstatic.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
Sure, I’m optimistic about what the coaching staff will be able to accomplish with 7 footer Josh Lomers. He needs to add a few skills, but he has the height down just fine.
by Alamo on Aug 5, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i was trying to forget Lomers existed. thanks for that.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 5, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Fun post, Fred.
Come on, RJ—shock the world.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Wouldn’t it be nice? I keep thinking that Pop must see it in him since he gave him the extension.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
I would have thought its the fact that Pop personally coached him in the offseason. Or maybe, Pop was just trying to make everyones lives less miserable. But I am not sure why he would do something like that.
The extension, its more a favor by RJ to the spurs than vice versa and he wouldn’t have opted out without an understanding in place. Coz the Spurs FO is steadfast and classy, I guess players have the confidence to do something like that. Can’t imagine trusting someone from the FO of anyone else other than maybe the Thunder.
Why is it when a team goes small against us we change and go small too to defend? What would happen if we went bigger and played Tim, Tiago and Blair and FORCED them to stop us from scoring
Great post Fred. Good perspective on what it’s going to take for the Spurs to get back to being a serious title contender.
What are your thoughts on Temple/Anderson/Gee/Neal for the season? I’m assuming at least 2 will see Toro’s time, but I feel we still need a solid defender and someone else to spread the floor and provide long range shooting. I really like Temple for his size and fearlessness that he showed in the minutes he had last year. Not sure how much we can expect from Anderson as a rookie, but the consensus around here is that he’s a good shooter. And apparently Neal can shoot since the Spurs signed him to a longer deal. Just wondered how you felt about that “other tier” of Spurs players.
I would put my money on Temple, and only Temple. Tim, Tony, Manu, RJ, McDyess, Tiago, Blair, Hill, Bonner…That’s already nine guys that all need minutes for sure. Regardless of the whole, who is going to play the 3 thing, all those guys will be getting minutes one way or another. That doesn’t leave many left over for anyone else, unless somone gets injured.
So I’d bet on Temple because he seems to be Pop’s new man-crush. I wonder if George is jealous?
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
Five of your nine will only play the 4 or 5 spot, leaving 4 players playing the other 3 spots (while perhaps taking some time at the 4 spot in small lineups). I would think 1 of the bigs might be getting most of their minutes only when Tim sits out a game, playing only slightly more than the 5 big (Ian at the end of the season) did last year. Tony, Manu, Hill & RJ are all returnees that will play essentially the same number of minutes last year; leaving the time played by Bogans, Mason and Hairston. While it could be Temple might take a good number of the minutes, it would seem there will be minutes for either Anderson or Neal as well. Quite likely minutes will go to whoever is hitting a 3 consistently.
If it’s between Neal and Anderson, I’m going with Neal. He’s older and has more experience, so maybe he’ll play more like a veteran than a true rookie. Plus, his shot is smooth as silk. It’s the purest shot on the team by a long shot. I know Anderson makes buckets, but Neal’s stroke has some Ray Allen in it.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
Neal’s stroke has some Ray Allen in it.
Agreed. He only took a few shots in the first summer league game but it was instantly obvious. I even said so in that game thread (or recap).
by doggydogworld on Aug 4, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I like Temple and would be just fine with him taking the majority of the minutes left over. But with the lineup that you listed, do you think we’re turning into a team that will rely less on 3’s? Other than George and Bonner (who I’m assuming isn’t going to see nearly as many minutes as before), there aren’t many guys who are going to light it up from downtown. Manu is streaky at best and you so nicely pointed out that RJ wasn’t even taking 3’s at the end of last year. So will it be more Temple for defense and then a Neal/Anderson when we need a little more offense? I can’t recall how Temple shoots from 3, so this could all be a moot point if he shoots well.
Temple was a great spot up shooter for us. He finished the year shooting 10 of 23 for 44%. Low attempts, but he was really smart about not forcing bad shots.
I think we will use Neal and Temple as spot up shooters. From what I’ve read about Neal and saw of Temple last year, both can bring the ball up the court, initiate the offense, and then move into their shooting spots. From what I’ve read about Anderson, and I’m talking about potential and not about rookie year expectations, should be able to score from more locations on the floor and find his own shot. I don’t know how much of this we will see this year, but I think is his role they drafted him for.
RJ was coming off a season in Milwaukee where he shot 40% from 3 so it probably wasn’t a major concern for him coming in last year. He knows now what kind of looks he will get within Pop’s system and that he was terribly inconsistent and plain terrible from 3 last year. He has to work on it this offseason and be more reliable this year. He took 187 regular season 3’s last year. He has to get that number up to 250 and be able to make 36-37% of them minimum.
what about Anderson?
I am really excited to see what this guy can do after playing so well at O.K. State. I know I shouldn’t get my hopes to high for a rookie but the guy played great in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. I mean he was super efficient while being the best scoring option on his team, playing against decent competition almost every night. I can’t wait for preseason to see what the guy can do!
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
Thank you, thought provoking post.
I posted a while back something to the effect that I felt the second-year RJ could potentially be a matchup nightmare for some of our Western Conference rivals, making it easier for the other Spurs to score, but it would take hard work, a few plays drawn up for his talents, and mostly his teammates looking to give him touches early in the game and in the possession. I don’t think that expecting him to be the guy waiting in the corner office until the team dumps the rock to him as a last resort for a buzzer-beating three plays to his strengths at all… not that I’m saying you were suggesting this.
If the team can help RJ get going early, however they do it, it’ll do wonders for his confidence and the team’s fortunes. I don’t think his personality is at all like Cap’n Jack’s, so it may be a stretch for him to bring that kind of swagger to the court. He’s the son of missionaries, after all! But if he can channel some Sean Elliott and/or Terry Cummings into his attitude and play, I think he’ll be a successful Spur and we’ll be happy fans. And again, I truly believe that the team has to get him involved in the offense, otherwise he’ll defer and disappear.
Interesting comparison between Blair and Barkley & Rodman. I could do without the Rodman crazy, but yeah, DeJuan has a similar kind of manic energy and nose for the (loose) ball. He’s amazingly efficient, so I’d love to see him get more minutes. He’s not at the Barkley level yet, but he could get there, certainly his work ethic and talent seem to be sufficient. He kinda reminds me of all the great things Malik Rose brought to the Spurs, but with more skills and greater upside. If he improves just at a normal rate from his rookie season (i.e. fewer mistakes), he’ll contribute wins to the team, and there’s a good chance that he could improve at a faster rate.
Last season’s true “most improved player” (Hill) has redonkulous upside as well, but I am concerned that expecting him to be the Spurs’ defensive stopper AND Parker’s replacement are mutually incompatible. Leaving aside the fact that everyone on the team is saying that Parker isn’t going to be traded and that it’s premature to even consider replacing him with Hill, do you really want George to split his focus over the summer, and his energy on the court, between running the offense and defending the other team’s best scorer? I don’t know of any starting PG that is expected to do this. At some point (when it becomes clear whether the team can re-sign Parker or not), the Spurs will have to decide whether Hill is going to be the starting PG or the defensive go-to guy. But not both.
For now, I’m happy with Hill as the versatile guard — you need minutes from him to backup TP? No problem. To be the guy nailing kick-out threes from the corner? Fine. Defend the opposing team’s 1, 2, or 3? Bring it on. Slashing cuts to the basket. Love it.
Splitter. I have a lot of hopes for him, but to be realistic, he won’t have the entire summer to work with the team and learn the Spurs system, so that’s a minus. From what little video I’ve seen of him, he has good fundamentals and footwork, and high basketball IQ, so it’s possible that he’ll pick it up quickly. Also, the Spurs have experience with top Euro players and know how to help them adapt to the NBA. Lots of practice time with Parker and Manu might be a good idea, but again, he has obligations to his national team this summer. He has pretty good English comprehension, as well as Spanish, so communication ought not to be a problem.
Seeing how rookies and even veteran NBA players can struggle in their first year with the Spurs, I don’t want to be overly optimistic. Will his learning curve be like Blair’s, or RJ’s? That’s why I hope to see a second-year Splitter playing alongside Tim Duncan, even in a lockout-shortened season…. that would be awesome.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 3, 2010 8:43 PM CDT reply actions
Forgot to mention, one knock on Splitter seems to be his mid-range shot, or rather lack of one. So my fantasy of a high-post Splitter passing it to RJ/Anderson/Manu/Parker/Hill making a backdoor cut will have to wait until he develops ones. Maybe TD could teach him that pretty bank shot? :)
But I have no problem with Timmeh in the high post, and Splitter in the low, for next year. He’s a good passer and anticipates the double team well. Oh, and his defense… doesn’t have a lot of blocks, but causes players to alter their shots, and boxes out with a vengance. Put him and Blair in the game together, assign Splitter to neutralize the other team’s best rebounding big, and Blair could pick up two or three extra boards per game easy.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 3, 2010 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
He’s the son of missionaries, after all!
Learn something new every single day. Maybe not something useful, but definitely new.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
No problem, I do that all the time… I think I read that about him on wikipedia, so I could be wrong.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 3, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Blair has all the potential in the world to be our next franchise big, even at his height. While it was rare, he DID put the ball on the floor against Phoenix a couple times, took it right at Amar’e, and finished everytime. Granted, Apostrophe isnt the best defender, but he’s bigger and probably more athletic than Blair. I think all Blair needs is a jumper and a higher usage rate, and he’s an all star, even at the stacked forward position in the Western Conference.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
Blair? franchise big? I would never put him anywhere near being franchise big. At best, a solid bench player.
Franchise players are the likes of Timmy, Manu, Briant, Lebron, Howard, Shaq, and the list goes on. He is no where near the second class let alone the first class.
I might be overrating him (i probably am) but i’m looking at potential, and “solid backup” is what he is now. To think he isn’t going to improve at all through the course of his career is absolutely foolish. I think in 5 years or less i’ll be much closer to right than you will be.
I definitely think he has the ability to become as good an offensive player as Dwight Howard is a defensive player. And i think he’s already about the same liability on defense as Dwight is on offense.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 3, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Howard is not a good offensive player, so I would agree with you there. As a rookie, he is good. And yes he will improve over the years. But I wouldn’t see him being the first option on any team. He will be good off the bench, and will evolve into a good starter. But he will never make all-star team, or olympics team because he won’t be the best at his position.
Again, the kid is solid and strong. That is why he is now playing in the NBA.
And for statistical evidence, Dwight averaged a 13/11 per 36 minutes his rookie year. (as well as almost 2 blocks)
Blair averaged per 36: 15/12 with just under 1 block (.9)
Howard is a freak, athletic 7 footer, but he has absolutely 0 natural basketball ability.
Blair is a 6’6(ish) freak athlete with a TON of natural ability, a drive to improve, and a good (at least above average) basketball IQ.
I think you are discounting him too much because of his height, and because we only used him as a first option twice during the entire season.
Oh yeah. Those two times? 20/20. Could he average that night in and night out? No. Could he average 16+/10? Hell yeah. Between the putbacks he would get when he wasnt the one shooting and the points he would get when the offense ran through him, i’d think thats a fair estimate.
Could he do 16/10 against the Lakers? Probably not. Against 2 or 3 elite bigs, he’s going to be limited. But against the Boozers, Ama’res, Zach Randolph’s, etc, he can dominate. Erik Dampier and Haywood from Dallas are above average defensive bigs (Haywood got some DPOY hype last season) and Blair lol’d all over them in the last game of the season for 20/20, so it’s not like he just did that against sub par competition.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 3, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
(stats courtesy of basketball-reference.com)
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 3, 2010 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I still would not put him in Howard’s league. Stats lie, look at RJ’s. He played minutes on the spurs because we did not have many options.
I do agree with you in that he will be very effective against average and above average defensive bigs.
Let’s try this a different way.
Why would you not put him in Howard’s league, aside from the height difference?
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 3, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you are overrating and he is underrating. I think sometimes last year Blair was a liability on the floor which is understandable because he is a rookie. Against teams like the Lakers he is toast. I dont know what would be the best direction for him to go. Stay at the weight he is playing now and be a bully or try to transform himself into a more agile guy. The question is if that would be too much of a transformation for him.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
I’d recommend him to stay at the same weight, but grow 6 inches taller. He’ll be a super-douper star then.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
Good recommendation.
Any ideas about how he should carry that out?
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
Per an article in Friday’s Express-News:
"I’m just trying to learn the game better," said Blair, who has also slimmed down noticeably from last season.
Apparently he is going for the transformation to a more agile guy. I hope it works.
As long as he’s losing fat and not muscle.
by doggydogworld on Aug 7, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you saying that he’s now trying to reshape his body so he can be the backup SF? :D
Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 10, 2010 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Blair wouldn’t even need to put up 20/20 numbers to make the All-Star team. If he just focused on boards and put up Rodman-like numbers (i.e. leading the league in rebounds per game) as he matured and got more playing time, he could be an All-Star. I’m not suggesting he go that route, I think he has more potential and value to the team if he consistently rebounds AND scores.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 3, 2010 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Blair lol’d all over them in the last game
Nice!
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
thanks :)
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 4, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Franchise Big?
I love Blair’s game but he would have to put in some serious over time to be a franchise player. I mean he would have to be able to handle the ball really well, along with knocking down jumpers consistently. I can really see him averaging a double double in the league easily though. I mean Paul Millsap is a good player and he almost averaged a double double being the height he is, but he is not a franchise player. Even Boozer isn’t considered a franchise player and he is a double double machine.
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Aug 4, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
shaq is said to be going to the celtics, so the rich get richer what else is new.
AKA Anthony Teegarden
I’d go with the old get older.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
by Fred Silva on Aug 3, 2010 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or the rich get heavier? or fatter? or slower?
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
LOL
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Aug 4, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Aug 4, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I was looking forward and was hoping we trade Tony Parker. He is a fast point guard, but a selfish player. Yes he attacks and sometimes makes it to the free throw line, but he also turns it over too many times. His assists numbers are also not that great.
If you go back to the tapes from last season, Tony would not pass the ball to Jefferson even when Jefferson was open. He would hold on to it till someone else was open, or he turn it over. This became more the case when he came off the bench.
Jefferson liked playing with manu on the floor. If you go back to the videos, Manu did pass Jefferson the ball under same circumstances. Jefferson was more productive with Manu on the floor.
With Parker’s contract expiring next year, I can only imagine how more selfish he will be in an attempt to raise his value. Unless he can become an effective starter, he is going to hurt us more than help us.
As far as Tim Duncan goes, his overall scoring average is great. But he is not a reliable go to guy anymore. He went stretches of not scoring. And it wasn’t a game or two, but we’re talking series here.
Right now we have high number of rookies and first year players. We will not get past first round if that stays the same. My bet is that the spurs are working on a trade to move some of the rookies and maybe package a good player to get one or two solid player.
Whoa, I really don’t see Parker as a selfish player at all. If you want to argue that he should distribute more, like a “true” point guard, then I think that’s a reasonable basketball argument. But selfish? Parker works his ass off on both ends of the floor, and does whatever Pop asks him to do for the team. The other Spurs see him as a great teammate. He has worked hard to successfully add a jumper to his arsenal. When healthy, he regularly has one of the highest shooting percentages in the league in the paint. The Spurs need him to dribble penetrate and take that shot. That’s not selfishness, in my book.
by quincyscott on Aug 4, 2010 12:48 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, calling Parker selfish is a stretch. He’s a scoring point guard and always has been. If we wanted a passing point guard, then we should have gone after one. We play him because he is so dangerous offensively. He’s been slowed by nagging injuries the past few seasons. I’d put money on Parker being an All Star this year. It’s his contract year and he took the summer off. He should be all of potent this season.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
What other PG’s make the all-star roster this year? Or do you mean that he will be at an all-star level whether he beats out Williams, Paul, and Nash or not?
I think Utah and the Suns both got worse this offseason. Nash is going to have a hard time finding someone as reliable as Amare to dish the ball to. I think this is the year he falls out.
The Hornets still suck. Chris Paul might get the fan vote, but I think he has a chance of getting knocked out of the All Star game. I feel like he might go Lebron on the Hornets and give up on them.
But mostly, I think Tony Parker is going to have such a good year that he will have to be included.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
I’d put money on Parker being an All Star this year
Wow. I have been a shameless TP defender all year but am not so sure. I love his game and his attitude, but he needs to develop just a bit more court vision and passing ability to be a surefire All Star this year. OTOH, CP3 may have pissed people off with his pouting, Nash’s age may finally catch up with him, so it depends on how the Jazz do this year.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
Yes I still call him selfish. He was great prior to last year. But once he came off the bench, he wanted to prove himself and did not pass the ball. Go back to the tapes and you will see him hogging the ball and not passing it even when there were open players, specially Jefferson. And next season will be more visible as he will be playing for a contract.
To say we wanted an attack point guard and not a passing point guard is a weak argument (someone else below made this comment).
Manu is NOT a point guard, yet he has more assists and points than Parker. He gets more people involved than Parker does.
Once parker came off the bench, Parker played for Parker and not for the Spurs.
Manu is NOT a point guard, yet he has more assists and points than Parker.
<- clicky
Tony apologist since 2010.
Why so surprised? In the playoffs when Parker was healthy
Manu:
Assists: 6.0
Points: 19.4
Parker:
Asissts: 5.4 (Blair and Bonner had 5 assists, almost as much as our point guard)
Points: 17.3
Take a look at the assist percentage numbers for the playoffs(turnover percentage is also enlightening). Manu is obviously a god among shooting guards, but Tony’s slightly higher. This is because both of our top 2 guards get a lot of plays run for them(look at usage for proof of that) – basically, the offense is run almost exclusively through those two guys and Timmy when they’re on the floor.
So if not Tony at PG, who do you propose? George Hill, the guy who had more turnovers than assists in the playoffs, plus can’t create his own shot? Garrett Temple(lol)?
Tony apologist since 2010.
by Tim C. on Aug 4, 2010 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1 for your argument
and +5 for your sig.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 4, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m late to this party, but Manu’s numbers are great partly because he plays with our second unit. When Tony plays, he is part of an offense that includes Tim and RJ. Two guys who gobble up touches, points, and assists. When Manu plays, he is the offense. It’s his job to make that second unit productive and he always is creating, thereby boosting his ppg and apg.
If we played Tony with our second unit 82 games a year, his stats would jump. And likewise, if Manu had to share the ball with our starting unit, his numbers would take a hit.
This is why stats in basketball are difficult. There are too many variables to simply say Player A scores and assists more than Player B and then draw any concrete conclusions.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
These topics are really interesting and I think would be pretty complicated to prove. I’m just going on gut here. You might be right, but I don’t believe this argument about Manu having improved stats because he plays with bench players against bench players.
I also don’t think RJ takes a considerable number of touches away from Parker either. I think Parker’s injuries and summer play were the reason his touches were down. I think Hill starting over Mason was a bigger impact on Parker than RJ as well. Hill’s success is also eating into his minutes a little. Last season, he had his lower mpg since his rookie year.
I think both of our points argue towards the same conclusion. Basically that simply putting up Manu and Tony’s stats side by side is not a fair comparison.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
This is true, side-by-side comparisons dont do justice to the problem. Your argument that Manu’s stats are inflated because he plays with the second unit is bogus though. Manu exploded in the second half of the season when he was starting along with Duncan and RJ. He was probably the best player in the league in that span. No need to try to explain it, it is just the way things are. Manu has shown that he can be the best player on any lineup at times.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
Yes I still call him selfish.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I don’t agree with you or see the same things you do, but appreciate the explanation. I also appreciate you being honest about it, and for not spamming all threads like posters have done in the past. It is good to know where people stand even if I don’t agree.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
I disagree that he is selfish, but even if you’re right and Tony goes into a game thinking, “I’m going to outscore Manu and Tim tonight….F Jefferson, I own Kidd, and I’m going to go at him every chance I get,” that might be a good thing. You are saying it as a negative that Tony is missing passes and not getting enough assists, but the goal of a possession is to get a high percentage shot. I think Tony’s shot selection is pretty good and he is one of our best scorers so I don’t care if he is a little selfish. We probably need him and Tim and Manu to be selfish at times.
Is Duncan selfish for demanding the ball when he is in the post? No, he is smart and it was the Spurs want from him. I think the exact same situation applies for Tony.
Meh, previewing is overrated.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
GOL. I am stealing that.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
Fair enough. It’s what I did when I saw it.
I must say, you’re certainly in the borrowing mood this week, what with the purloined avatar and now this…
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
Hmmm, maybe I will do something original if you post a recent photo of yourself on the illusions thread. ::where is that library of RuPaul photos:::
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
but a selfish player
This is what I hate about all the TradeTony preachers. I have no problem with anyone making an argument based on his playing style or potential, but almost all the arguments tend to attack his character instead. This gets me defensive, raises my blood pressure and gets me saying obnoxious things and generally lowers the atmosphere of this site. I resolve to be more controlled with my responses from now on. Deep breath. Deep breath. breathe.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
by swgeek on Aug 4, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok. Much better.
Supposed Tony was playing selfishly to the detriment of his team, how long do you think it would take Pop to yank him? Or is Pop too mild-mannered and scared to do such a thing and just panders to the fans and media instead?
Yes, Tony needs to work on his passing and court vision. No, I don’t think he is being selfish.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
by swgeek on Aug 4, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was due to injury.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 4, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
There is no bigger insult you can throw at a team player than to label him selfish. That said, I think a lot of people use that term when they really mean that they think he should pass the ball more. I’m not sure exactly what the original poster meant by “selfish,” so I don’t want to get too bent out of shape about it. But I think most readers would agree that Parker has exhibited plenty of selfless, team play.
I’m probably going way out on a limb here, but I have a feeling that Parker’s combination of slight stature, French accent, pretty boy features and starlet wife have a lot more to do with some people seeing him as “selfish,” “soft,” etc., than anything he’s actually done or not done on the court. Some books cannot be judged by their covers. I think Parker has shown since the start of his career with the Spurs that he’s a pretty tough cookie, and that he will work hard to improve his game and make the team better.
That said, I think a lot of people use that term when they really mean that they think he should pass the ball more
Thank you for that explanation. I do not know how this poster meant it, and apologize if that is what you meant. Past posters would follow up with comments about TP’s attitude and rumors about how he wants out or how teammates do not like him. So I am already on edge whenever someone posts. I need be more zenlike and take each post in the moment instead of being influenced by the past so much.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
I share the same enthusiasm of Fred with this year’s squad. The role players are definitely an improvement from last year. We do lack vets, but boy I am truly excited on what Tiago will bring and how Blair and Hill have improved. Sometimes, the unknown vs. the sure thing (like what Finley and Mason had last year) is better, so long as the upside is way better than the sure thing.
On trading TP, I am on board with Fado’s concerns with his style of play. As I said before, if their were takers for TP that would bring value to winning now, I am pretty sure Pop/Buford would have grabbed it. However, the off-season did not bring Santa on the Spurs’ door. So, our best chance is still to roll with TP now. It would now be up to the coaches to make the differents parts to all work well.
Please, let’s not turn the comments in Fred’s great FanPost into another “Trade TP” discussion. The club has made its position very clear, George Hill has said that Parker is irreplaceable, and I haven’t heard Tony say that he wants to be traded. Let’s not open that can of controversy here, and let’s instead discuss the things Fred wrote about. :)
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 3, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 3, 2010 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Right on to the real Tuna!
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Aug 4, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
+1. Should have read this before replying up above. I will shut up and eat my ice cream now.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
flavor?
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 4, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure who on here lives in San Antonio, but Brindles next to Flying Saucer and Half Price Books at Huebner Oaks is the fucking best ice cream you can get. I got this new Mojito gelato last time that was just a perfect summer taste. I think they have like 300 flavors but only serve 40 at a time so every trip, there is something new. They stay open pretty late most nights to so I’ve hit them up after a few Spurs losses (coping) and wins (celebrating). I promise they don’t pay me either.
Indeed, Brindles rocks. And the Flying Saucer isn’t shabby, either. There are certainly worse ways to remedy a tough loss. Just skip right past Half Price, though, and go directly to the sugar, fat and alcohol. Reading will not help.
I used to live in the apartment complex across the street from the Saucer. Good stuff.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
I would be 300 lbs if I lived there. Back in college I lived close to Steve’s ice cream (the NC branch of the a cool ice cream place in Boston). I had two humongous scoops every single day. And it was too much for my girlfriend, so I ate the rest of hers too. Back then I ran 5-10 miles a day and swam and did other stuff so could get away with it. Now, not so much.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
Chocolate mixed in with chocolate, of course. and a second scoop of some other icecream with a slightly different chocolate. Then I look forward to eating some dark chocolate and washing it down with some chocolate ice cream. Oh, and I also like chocolate.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
HA!
Has anyone else ever had the fabled Goo Goo Cluster Ice cream? I swear there is no better. Unfortunately, it is near impossible to locate, and is absolutely impossible to find outside of the deep south.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 4, 2010 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Really? I have lived in the Western U.S. my whole life, and I ate it many times as a kid and I still can find it at the grocery store. Chocolate, marshmallow ribbon, caramel, chocolate covered peanuts, mmm……
WHAT?!?!? I’ve never been able to find it anywhere outside of Alabama/Tennessee/Northwest Florida. I live in OKC now and i’ve looked everywhere for it.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Aug 6, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
No, swgeek, I think your responses above were great. If some people want to turn an innocent thread into a “Trade TP” discussion, someone has to speak up for Frenchy.
And yeah, I agree 100% about the misuse of the word ‘selfish’ as applied to Parker. He’s done everything the team has asked him to do, including coming off the bench, and working hard over a summer to reconstruct his entire frickin’ jump shot, fer Christ’s sake! He’s the exact antithesis of selfish as far as I’m concerned.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 10, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Great post. It really made me think of the fact that the Spurs are rebuilding while still competing for championships. It made me appreciate how good of an organisation the Spurs have. We can rebuild without having to go all the way to the bottom. I love the Spurs.
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
Yes. I can’t remember if it was in a FanPost or a FanShot, but there was a link to an article that quoted Pop (I think) as saying that they didn’t think they’d hit rock bottom, even after the Franchise retired. I think it was the one in which he was talking about how few true franchise players there really are, even though there are many max contract players in the league.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 4, 2010 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I really have to agree with your comments about Jefferson, Fred. You are completely spot on! For better or for worse, RJ will define the Spurs. He can take us to the next level or he can crash us against the rocks of fading dynasties. Jefferson is exceedingly important to the franchise; that is why he was signed twice (it’s not just because Pop is drinking too much wine). It is a risk but I believe it is worth it and besides, what choice do we have? Who can replace him and who has the potential he has that is available?
I’m waiting for the day when I can say that the Spurs have a “Big Four” (with a wonderful supporting cast of Splitter, Hill, Blair, etc.). Hopefully that day isn’t too far away.
The future is indeed bright. If Anderson/Tiago become a steal in the same way as Hill and Blair, then we have a new core to build on in this next decade. The run of 3 titles in the last decade was started by 2 great draft picks, TP and Manu . If our 2007 to 2010 picks become all-stars, a new decade of Spurs dynasty is on its way.
If LA 3peats next year, perhaps the Spurs will win it every other year beginning on 2012, last year of Tim (like David) just like last decade. Of course, I’d rather see us win ASAP and beat the Lakers next year to start the decade right. Go Spurs Go!
I remember Sean Elliott talking during one of our games about Blair’s rebounding. He was saying he was more Wallace than Rodman in that Rodman was willing to sacrifice good defensive position to be in a rebounding position. He said Blair, like the other two players, had a 6th sense for the rebound but was able go get it without leaving his man (possibly because Blair was dragging him along for the ride…).
Blair reminds me of Rodman when he attacks the offensive boards. He has that little Rodman nudge in the back that works very well and he is good at reading the ball. By this I mean he reacts to the ball’s movement when it’s shot. Some guys have that ability, Rodman was one of them. When the ball is in the air, Blair has a sense of whether it will be a long rebound to the weak side, a short rebound to the strong side, or any variation and he moves to the correct spot.
One thing Rodman used to do that I always enjoyed was have the weak side blocked out, but give up his position because he could tell the shot was going to be short and bounce to the strong side. He’d move to the strong side and the ball would bounce into his lap where he’d get an uncontested layup. That uncanny ability is why I compared Blair to Rodman.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
Yeah, I’m just saying on top of Blair being like Rodman in that aspect, a former teammate of Rodman’s said he would give up defensive position sometimes and Blair was more sound in his rookie year than Rodman was on a championship contender in that regard. I wasn’t arguing your comparison to Rodman, just adding to it.
The other thing I notice from Blair’s rebounding is that not only can he read rebounds and out-muscle other rebounders near the rim, but also use his wingspan to pull low rebounds out of a crowd and just emerge for an at the rim attempt. You see this a lot on possessions where he misses and gets his own offensive rebound when the defenders are out of position after his first attempt.
A couple of things about your article. First off, true, I do believe that the role players will play a significant role in the Spurs success. However, trading Tony Parker is a crazy notion. He is so good at scoring in the paint and that opens up the offense and gives us more opportunities. I love GH and he did produce but you can’t give up TP.
Blair expanding his game to have a better shot would be a good thing and he already has incredible rebounding skills but the biggest thing with Rodman on the Spurs is that he always hung around the basket and never rotated which was a detriment to the Spurs success. We don’t need that.
From what I’ve seen Splitter is a little more athletic than you think and his game includes a nice outside touch as well as the ability to drive to the hole. He also can get somewhat physical but Laimbeer is an animal, a rare breed and if we get that, it will be a blessing.
I want RJ to be RJ and better integrated into the Spurs offense. His stats are way better than Stephen Jackson, however I admire SJ.
I love George Hill, but he’s so overrated defensively. I don’t know if my perception of his defense has been skewed because the bulk of my experience watching him play has been against Phoenix, whom he has trouble with. In addition, the only time I saw him play live was against Phoenix…
The Spurs = Not your granddaddies 7th seed !
he might be overrated by us, but he is underrated by everyone else….he is a good defender for a second year player
George is a gifted defender but had to guard out of position a bunch last year.
He usually defended the biggest wing when RJ wasn’t in and often the second biggest wing. Ideally he would defend guys his size but I wouldn’t bet on it this year.
I just hope he doesn’t have to defend Dirk Nowitzki again.
Just read this great little piece on Bruce Bowen. It got me thinking about some of our young players. We assume that guys that go undrafted or bounce around leagues are never going to amount to more than bench players, but Bowen’s career certainly contradicts that viewpoint. His game developed over time. And, equally important, he didn’t flourish until he got on teams that needed his particular skill set, first Miami and then of course the Spurs.
Some of our current Spurs are young. It’s really hard to know how they will mature and develop. Are there some future champions in the fold? Some may think that sounds ridiculous, but I would bet very few people saw a twenty-two year old Bruce Bowen that way, either.
Guys like Bowen exist, but they’re the exception, rather than the rule.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
I think that Popovich should put The Rookies in the starting line some games
Lets say that greg put the rookies 10 games in the starting line and give a lot of minutes
It would be a great oportunity to improve, to know each other and get confidence
PG: Gill
SG: James Anderson
SF: Alonzo Gee/Gary neal or RJ
PF: Blair
C: TIago
Bench: Duncan, Manu, Parker, etc
¿¿What do you think about this???
Its Crazy I KNOW, its really important to win games and get homecourt advantage for the playoffs
This is my problem with it, despite thinking it would be an exciting game to see; you would want to put that lineup up against a bad team that they could possibly win against. At the same time, the Spurs usually play bad teams as must wins and try to go in more level-headed against good teams. I don’t think you could do this for 10 games, but you could possibly see Manu and Duncan benched in a SEGABABA (haven’t written that in awhile) when both games of the back to back are tough ones. I don’t see Pop going into a game with all three on the bench.
Were they all benched in the 08-09 season in that game at Denver? I can’t remember. Double checked, we benched Manu, Tony, Duncan, and Finley on a THIGAFONI that was the second game of the RRT. Mason lead us in scoring and assists. Bonner lead us in rebounds. We lost by eight after cutting the lead to 5 points with 1:42 to play.
Typing all these acronyms is getting me excited for the schedule release on Tuesday.
Typing all these acronyms is getting me excited for the schedule release on Tuesday.
Beautiful.
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
I can’t wait for this year’s BSA (Blase Schedule Analysis).
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
I don’t think the younger players necessarily need time playing with each other, I prefer they become familiar with playing in certain platoons. Platoon B has Manu, Platoon C Tony, though Platoon A (starting lineup) has both. Platoon A: Tony, Manu, RJ, Tim & Tiago (though Dice might take Tiago’s place initially). About 6 minutes into the game send in Blair and Hill for Tim and Tony forming Platoon B: Manu, Hill, RJ, Blair & Tiago. Start the 2nd quarter with Platoon C: Tony, Neal, Anderson, Tim & Bonner.
I don’t know if there are statistics that would support it, but it seems to me Tony gets slightly more of his assists by kicking out to 3 point shooters (part of his down year being due to Bonner & Mason having bad years with injuries), while Manu gets slightly more assists passing inside to the likes of Blair. Tiago plays when Blair does to have a taller player present. Temple and Dice being the other two players who go in more according to the situation.
While I personally like the idea of platoons working together and getting accustomed to one another, I am not opposed to other combinations arising per the situation.
PG: Gill
I didn’t realize Kendall Gill was even in the league any more. He’s gotta be 45.
by doggydogworld on Aug 6, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought he was doing MMA like every retired athlete is trying to do. LOL! I am not a fan of MMA but it makes me laugh to see some of these guys getting there ass whipped because they think it is so easy to do
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Aug 6, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Role players
Good article. However, I don’t think Splitter will be a role player for very long.The problem with your list is that they all, Jefferson, McDyess,Blair and to a lesser degree Hill, are known quantities. We have seen what they can and can’t do. Jefferson is a scrapper, but he was a poor perimeter shooter late in the season and in the playoffs. McDyess was super guarding Nowitski, but his rebounding has fallen off; Hill’s weakness on defense was an inability to guard quick guards like Nash and Paul; and Blair doesn’t possess a good mid range jumper and has difficultly guarding quick and long players alike. The Spurs need help from two or more of the up and comers. Gary Neal certainly has the shooting skills, but he is strictly a two guard. Alonzo Gee shows great promise, but like Jefferson he shoots a low perimeter shot percentage. Garrett Temple may have the skills to replace Hill as the backup point guard but a big question remains. Who is capable of backing up Jefferson as the small forward, especially if RJ repeats last year’s performance. The three forward must be able to hit the long perimeter shot when defenses collapse to the paint and drive to the bucket when they don’t. I think the Spurs are going to have to consider James Gist or Tyler Wilkerson. Gist seems to have the skills, but hasn’t shown the NBA type aggressiveness that Pop is looking for. Wilkerson seems to have that aggressiveness and hopefully he will be included in the pre-season camp if he is invited. In a nutshell the Spurs will need at least two more key role players added to Silva’s list for the Spurs to be successful. Who do you think will step up and make the roster?
I think Fred meant role player as in “not a star player” and not as in “not a starter”. I also think he was focusing on the role players that we will need to see contribute in the playoffs, although it might also be that the young guys weren’t included because we really haven’t seen them play. If you add the 4 role players Fred mentioned to Dice and the Big Three, we have a for sure 8 man rotation. I think we need a little bit more from our backcourt/wings to round it out since that 8 man rotation is 4 bigs, but we won’t be going 12 deep in a playoff game unless it’s a blowout. You know Bonner will get minutes too.
Also, I think your statement “The problem with your list is that they all, Jefferson, McDyess,Blair and to a lesser degree Hill, are known quantities.” is false. Fred is writing about what RJ, Blair, and Hill could still evolve to be. Blair and Hill are far from their ceilings and RJ underachieved in some aspects of his game that he has succeeded in previously. I think it is more fair to all of those players to expect more from them rather than peg them as “known quantities”.
Something tells me our playoff roster, barring any injuries, trades or waivings other than D-leaguers, will be:
Duncan, Manu, Parker, RJ, Splitter, Hill, Bonner, Dice and Blair as 9 for sure players
The other three spots will be…….Temple, Neal, and Anderson as the most likely 12th man. Manu will play some SF minutes just to get Hill and Parker the minutes they all need, but we will still need one of the last 3 to give us 6-10 mpg in non-blowouts.
Thanks blaseE. I’ve been in nyc all week and just got around to checking the comments. you’re spot on.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
"I mean, Dartmouth really sucks and Cornell only beat us by 18. Temple will beat the hell out of Cornell. Promise." -- Me
Follow me on Twitter @DartFred
by Fred Silva on Aug 8, 2010 1:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Splitter Injured
Splitter had to leave the Brazil vs Venezuela in 3rd quarter with thigh injury. MRI is pending.
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez
Nice touch on the bold letters, all caps then going to small letters.
"We choose to go to the moon... and do the other things, not only because they are easy, but because they are hard." - JFK
by silverandblack_davis on Aug 9, 2010 4:02 AM CDT up reply actions
That was an honest reaction from me when I first heard the news, at after 1am my time. I didn’t know it wasn’t a severe injury by any means. I only knew that after waiting so long, we’d finally signed him, and then he was injured before ever stepping onto the court in the silver and black.
Next season, our only FIGASENI is @ NJ on the RRT. It is also a THIGAFONI, but not part of a BABA. - BlaseE
That’s the best news we could have hoped for.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Aug 10, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
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