Did the Spurs miss the boat?
by Big50 on Jul 20, 2010 10:52 AM CDT
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PrintI'm happy that the Spurs landed Tiago Splitter. I think he will make this team better in a number of ways. What I'm wondering is why it took so long for the Spurs and Splitter to get a deal done. I'm not sure one or the other is to blame, it may have been that both sides had things that kept them from being able to get the deal put together faster. From my perspective it looks like the Spurs were waiting on that deal before they moved forward on other Free Agent talks. From the looks of things that might have cost them a shot at the better FA's out there that they could have used.
Glad we got him, but...
Nobody, that I heard, thought the Spurs would get Splitter for around half of the MLE. They did so giving themselves money to play around with in the free agent market. Unfortunately, the real need of a proven 3 seems to be a hot item in this years market. The Heat have snapped up 2 of them, in Mike Miller and James Jones. Are the Spurs going to be able to use the money they so wisely saved for a FA?
We need him back...I know, I know, it's hard to really want that.
Who knows. At this point re-signing Richard Jefferson is a top priority in my opinion. I don't think, even with his shortcomings, there is a player near his talent level at his position left in the FA market. I wouldn't mind seeing the young bucks from the Toros and summer league step up and make this team. As I understand it, the Spurs this is the Spurs current roster:
Guards:
Tony Parker, George Hill, Manu Ginobili, James Anderson, Malik Hairston and Garrett Temple.
Forwards:
Tim Duncan, DeJaun Blair, Matt Bonner, Alonzo Gee
Centers:
Tiago Splitter and Antonio McDyess
This a team that looks a little thin at the forward and center spots. Obviously, Hairston and a few other can move to the 3 and make that work, but without Jefferson our 3 spot is looking very suspect. Also, I think it might be good for the Spurs to look into getting another big. A veteran or an up and comer who can fill in time during garbage time or help fill in for injuries.
Here's a quick list of people that are available that might help fill out this Spurs roster (I did very little research, feel free to add to this list or let me know if these guys have already signed somewhere else).
Richard Jefferson (a must sign, as you will see from the rest of this list)
Matt Barnes (assuming his deal with the Raptors did fall through)
Rasual Butler (probably the best option at the 3 not called Princess Peanut)
Shelden Williams (a nice bench big who hustles, plays defense and isn't a big ego)
Joey Graham (might be a good defensive 3, but not much more)
Pops Mensah-Bonsu (he can dunk)
There are of course guys like Kurt Thomas, Fabricio Oberto and others would might make decent deep bench options. I don't know what the Spurs are going to do, but it looks like they've missed out on most of the better options in FA...that I know of anyway. Let's hope the delay in signing Splitter doesn't end up costing this team their ability to sign some solid guys to help fill out the roster.
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Shelden Williams signed with the Nuggets, I think.
I agree with some of what you are saying but the money the Spurs had left from Splitter’s deal wouldn’t have landed them those free agents. Miller and Jones signed with Miami because they thought it was their best bet to win a championship, not because of the money, as did Ilgauskas. Bigs like Gooden and Miller signed for the full MLE.
It seems to me that the Spurs are doing what they do best: try to find a bargain once the market settles. If they can’t, they still have as you said, Hairston or Gee to fold back on at SF and a veteran like Thomas at C. I think that basically there wasn’t that much to miss out on in the first place for the money the Spurs had, but I could be wrong. Maybe Jones would’ve signed with the Spurs had the offer come sooner.
"Deep down we all know that swagger comes hand in hand with insecurity. We strut not to convince competitors of our dominance; we strut to convince ourselves."
Matthew Powell
You’re probably right. I’m just asking the question of did they miss out with the time they took signing Splitter. I think the signing of Splitter was easily the most important thing the FO had to do this summer and I would give up some bench player for him every day.
So, assuming RJ re-signs, what do we need more, another SF or another big? I’m inclined to go with another big. Let RJ play 36 mpg, with young guys backing him up, then sign a cheapish big for the end of the bench. None of the SFs left really intrigue me, but there are some bigs we could get cheap that would probably fit in well. Would GS match an offer for Tolliver? He played for the Toros, so he knows our system.
If it comes down to one or the other I’d go with a big. Play RJ 36 mpg as you said, but exclusively at SF, play a 3 guard line up for a few minutes and let Hairston or Gee play whatever minutes are left. I love our bigs but there are a lot of question marks surrounding them so I think we need someone else at least as insurance.
"Deep down we all know that swagger comes hand in hand with insecurity. We strut not to convince competitors of our dominance; we strut to convince ourselves."
Matthew Powell
In reality, the extra big is for one series, and one series only. The Lakers-Spurs series. Well, yes it could be argued for the Finals, but the Spurs won’t see the finals if they never beat the Lakers.
Although with another big SF, you might able to overcome other parts of the Lakers, if you can diversify the talents enough.
the extra big is for one series, and one series only
Not really. As KAISER says below, the Spurs’ bigs are not a sure thing.
Tiago could struggle early with foul trouble even more so than Blair did.
Maybe Blair improved but maybe he’s still below average on defense, unpolished on offense and fouls a lot.
Bonner is Bonner: not a traditional big.
McDyess is old and saves himself for the playoffs.
Timmy has a chronic knee injury and we want to save him for the playoffs.
Also, what if someone gets injured? Bonner would have to play big minutes and RJ would have to play some PF and neither of those are good things.
Again if I have to choose between a wing and a big ,I’d go with a big. But the Spurs could probably get both.
"Deep down we all know that swagger comes hand in hand with insecurity. We strut not to convince competitors of our dominance; we strut to convince ourselves."
Matthew Powell
I’d take the better talent of the two positions. I do think they are weak at either positions, even with RJ. Having Gist for example (at least a guy his size with some abilities) would go a long way. I don’t think the Spurs depth at big is as big as it is. I do think they are fine except every team not named the Lakers though.
Yeah, of course I would take the better talent too. But I feel that if we are talking need, not talent, I would go for a big. I’m not thinking about the Lakers, either. In the playoffs I expect the rotation to shrink to 5 bigs max.
At the wing we have Gee and Hairston, but who do we have at C? If the choice is between similar talents like say, Rasual Butler/Bobby Simmons or Kurt Thomas/Oberto, I’d go with Thomas/Oberto. Different opinions, I guess.
"Deep down we all know that swagger comes hand in hand with insecurity. We strut not to convince competitors of our dominance; we strut to convince ourselves."
Matthew Powell
get another big next. I’m fine with having Hairston and Gee as backups with some occasional Anderson 3-spot minutes.
Maybe it’s because I really want my man KT back, or maybe it’s because I don’t trust the Spurs frontcourt combination of old guys with lots of wear and tear, and young guys with some growing pains.
Either way, I don’t wanna rely on Bonner as our deep bench guy to move into the rotation if Dyess or Timmy gets injured. KT knows our scheme well and plays good defense. I also really like his jumpshot, he could really be a good teacher to Blair on that shot.
KT is the ultimate Duncan/Dyess injury replacement. Good solid fundamental defense, decent post moves, and a slick jumper.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
The Spurs did not acquire RJ through free agency but a trade, and the Bucks weren’t particularly looking for talent in exchange. It won’t surprise me if the Spurs starting SF at the beginning of the season is acquired in some similar type trade, perhaps while only giving up some of our own free agents in sign and trades.
Whereas I might yet consider Shaq for a minimal contract, otherwise I think the deep backup center would be a young center that normally plays in Austin.
I’m telling you think unconventionally, sign Shaq but play him at the 3. That way you’d continue to have your “a hole” at the 3.
Hey if repeating as champions were that easy even the Spurs could do it.
One problem. Shaq doesnt have the size to match up with bigger 3’s like paul pierce. and his 3 point shooting is streaky.
I think we need another shooter. Our problem at the end of the season was nobody was making 3’s. And we basically switched RMJ for Anderson, but it’s hard to count on a rookie so much. We have Bonner back, but that’s about it. We all know RJ doesn’t shoot the 3 very well……I don’t know much about Rasual Butler…does he shoot 3’s well?
Another big would be ok, but I doubt they would get much playing time, so I don’t think Shaq or any one like that is going to sign for little money and no playing time.
I dont’ think we’ll ever know what the Spurs schedule was for signing Splitter, but I think his teaming winning the Championship and then his wedding/honeymoon played a big part in SA having to wait to sign him. If his team had lost earlier, I think they would have gotten a deal done earlier. I agree it wasn’t the best of situations to have to wait so deep into the off-season to start signing guys, but I’m not sure if they had a choice.
I actually feel good about our 3-shooting next year. Hill, Temple, Manu, Bonner, and Anderson are a good enough 3-shooting unit for what our team does. Plus who knows how well RJ could 3-ball next year after a year in the system (if we get him back), I hear Hairston worked all offseason on his 3, and Parker has been working with Chip on getting a better 3 shot.
We’ll either be a solid 3 shooting team, or an elite one. But we won’t be a bad 3-point shooting unit.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
The Spurs just didn’t have a whole lot to work with. Seeing them not being major players in free-agency, unlike last summer, didn’t come as a surprise. The Spurs knew what they had and how to get it done. Tiago was the target and patience was the key.
Players like Matt Barnes, Raja Bell, James James and other available wings either didn’t want to play for the Spurs; wanted full MLE and nothing less; or wanted to hitch their wagon to a title contender believing the Spurs were no longer in that category; can you really blame them? Yes. It kind of sucks to see your favorite team getting passed on by players they were targeting, but that’s the way of the NBA. It may turn out to be the best for the Spurs in the long run.
Look at it another way, remember when Derek Anderson ditched the Spurs for the Blazers, after one year; Lamond Murray spurned San Antonio in favor of Cleveland; or Jason Kidd turning his nose up at the Spurs?
How’d that turn out again?
↓↘→ ↓↘→ ↓↘→ + P
In the context of the last two summers, I’m glad we didn’t take on any new players or make a play for the 2010 free agents.
These are the big-money players who were on a new team in 09-10:
Antonio McDyess, Richard Jefferson, Trevor Ariza, Rasheed Wallace, Charlie Villenueva, Ben Gordon, Ron Artest, Hedo Turkoglu, Shawn Marion, DeMar Rozan, Vince Carter.
Not one of those guys really lived up to expectations besides Artest, whom we expected to be crazy and make us wonder whether he was killing his own team or his opponents.
A lot of these guys still had long contracts or got new ones and promptly flopped. Jefferson for two years, or Marion for five? How about Turkoglu?
Judging by most recent history, new players have been almost uniformly a bad value.
by greyberger on Jul 20, 2010 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Not sure if I would have Wallace on that list. Yep, he stunk it up in the regular season, but he played pretty well when it counts and was a factor in getting them to the title game. I am not a Sheed fan and was cursing when I heard the rumors that Spurs were trying to land him, but he actually would have been a big help, especially in the playoffs.
'What color do you want?" (Tim Duncan)
Take Dice off the Spurs in 09 and add Sheed and I’m not sure we make the playoffs. He was really stinky in the regular season, and it’s a wonder he didn’t demoralize other Celtics with his lazy play and how out of shape he was. Maybe it wouldn’t have been that bad, but it could have been the difference between the 7th seed and 8th. Our regular season was a lot more relevant in the end than the Celtics’.
Dice was pretty stable and I think improved in the playoffs too. I don’t think swappin’ em or even somehow having both Wallace and Dice would have changed our fate in the PHX series.
If we wound up with the 8th seed, we probably could’ve knocked out the Lakers in the first round.
You are only young once, but you can be immature for a lifetime
by the little o on Jul 21, 2010 3:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I think that’s the plan. Get 8th seed and knock out the lakers. It was last years plan but dumb OKC messed it up for us.
by cartoonspurs on Jul 21, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the Spurs are having a really good offseason.
They signed Splitter, the best big man in Europe
They drafted Anderson, the best shooter in the draft
Got rid of RJ’s contract
Also Gee looked really good in summer league, and Temple looked great before he got injured.
I really don’t want RJ back, he can’t shoot and he’s a bad fit for us. He did us a favor.
"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobili
I really don’t want RJ back, he can’t shoot and he’s a bad fit for us. He did us a favor.
He is not that bad. Granted, he is a lousy fit for our system, but with a year under his belt should do better. His shooting was especially bad last year as he never got in the flow of our offense and lost confidence. But he did give us solid minutes and decent rebounding (at times :-). The saddest part is that he is our best hope at SF this year, unless they pull a surprise trade.
'What color do you want?" (Tim Duncan)
I dunno – they say he’s coming back.
Mark Stein put something up about this today," I’ve been assured that Jefferson will officially be back with the Spurs quite soon".
RJ was a massive disappointment, but take away our expectations and you’ll see he was just about average in everything he did (except for 3pt shooting, which was a down year).
We don’t want to settle on a bad fit and sign a long-term contract just because there’s nothing better than ‘average’ out there. Signing RJ again isn’t exactly shooting for greatness, but it’s a safer bet than turning the car keys over to Hairston and Gee or some new guy. A long-term deal to keep him definitely says we care more about these next two years than the post-Duncan era.
Two dark horses in free agency and I know these are weird but they are taller and longer than our current options. Rod Carney and Shawne Williams.
Williams is a personal mess and might become the next project for Larry Brown (he was in the bobcats summer league team). Rod Carney is a good defensive player by most accounts but he cannot play an ounce of offense.
I guess anyone would hesitate to sign one of this guys with Gee and Anderson on board for the young up and coming wing spots. The reason I mentioned is because they are slightly taller and with most that I have read they have the tools to be good defensive players and could be have for peanuts. Corner pocket trey? Not so much.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
I would say the Spurs missed the boat, if your talking about the one all the insane GMs sailed away on.
The Spurs = Not your granddaddies 7th seed !
by alamobro on Jul 20, 2010 11:58 PM CDT reply actions 10 recs
Nice. Rec’d.
If you liked it, then you shoulda put a fifth ring on it.
by day_late_friend on Jul 21, 2010 5:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Hey, it’s even better the Spurs missed the boat because I think KAAAAHN!! was at the helm
…with his finger on the button for the GENESIS device.
↓↘→ ↓↘→ ↓↘→ + P
by transgojobot on Jul 21, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m still pushing Jarvis Hayes . He’s mad to make that corner three, has great size, has above average defense to guard your lebrons rons and pierces of the league, and has a post game! This would be the perfect way foir us to succesfully play small ball. I would really like to use the rest of the MLE to sign this guy I don’t think that theres anyone else in free agency who has as much as he has to offer.
Hey, I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule.
by UkraineIsGame2u on Jul 21, 2010 10:06 PM CDT reply actions
I’d like to see Jarvis Hayes in the Silver and Black too… he could be a great fit for our second unit.
But I agree with the fans hear wanting another big, if only as extra insurance and to soak up early season minutes. Between Thomas and Oberto, I like Kurt’s demeanor and professionalism, plus the fact that he actually has a jump shot. He’d be an excellent, solid pickup imho. otoh, Manu looooves playing on the same team as Oberto, and it may be worth a roster spot to make the Amazing Argentinean happy. :)
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Jul 22, 2010 3:39 AM CDT up reply actions
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