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The Value Of Curtis Jerrells

So, tonight after our Summer League victory pushed us to 3-0, I got to thinking.  It's been awhile, so the thinking didn't come natural.  Here's my question at the root of my thinking.  How valuable is Curtis Jerrells to the Spurs organization?

I'm starting to think the answer is:  Quite.

Star-divide

A Different Drummer

The opinions of CJ's play varies from PtR member to PtR member.  He doesn't have a chance to make the team.  He's very solid.  He over dribbles.  Blah, blah, blah.  I like him for the most part.  I don't know if the Spurs will keep him on the roster or not.  I think he's very borderline.  But, whether he makes the team or not, and whether they pay him an NBA contract or not, has nothing to do with how valuable he is.  Here's where I'm coming from.

Knowing The System

Curtis, and Squeaky also, knows the Spurs system pretty well.  He's played in it for a year.  And he's the point guard.  This means that he knows where the players should be.  He can tell them where to be.  Both on the offensive end and the defensive end.  I think this knowledge of the system provides a HUGE monetary value to the Spurs.

It's Summer League

Most teams practice for summer league for about 1 week.  Last year, when I interviewed Jonas Jerebko, he said that it was pretty difficult to play in summer league because you don't know the other players.  You've practiced for maybe a week and you are thrown out on the floor.  It's very difficult to create any kind of system or cohesion for a team to play in such a short time.

It's About Evaluation

Summer League is really about evaluation.  Teams and scouts show up to evaluate players.  They attempt, in the span of 4-5 games, to assess how good a player is.  This is difficult at best.  It is damn near impossible when you have a team that can't even get the ball up court -- like the Hawks in our second game.  How is a team supposed to evaluate the abilities of a post player if the point guard can't get the ball up court, much less if he can't get the team into its offensive set, and the ball to the post player?  It can't.  Do you think the Hawks have any idea, based off of Wednesday's game, if Randolph Morris has any post moves?  No, they don't.  Jeff Teague couldn't get the ball to him.

The Cost

Just to set a baseline, let's talk about how much it costs the Spurs to attend Summer League.  They have 12 players (or more) on the roster.  They have 4-5 coaches.  They have a couple trainers.  All these guys had to be flown out to Las Vegas and they had to be put up in a hotel for 10 days.  They also have some do-nothing lie abouts like PR people and probably somebody to sell tickets or something.  Let's say that makes 25 people.  All getting paid.  They also have scouts and front office people.  An in-game shot of Popovich showed a lot of brass in the stands.  Pop, RC, Dennis Lindsay, Dell Demps, and Chad Forcier were all people I saw right away.  I'd bet there were a couple more present.  Anybody want to guess what a week of all their time is worth?  

I think you could easily get to $250K -- and $500K might not be out of the range -- as a cost of fielding, scouting, and evaluating a Summer League team.  And that is just the cost to be there.  It doesn't even begin to address the value of the decisions that they make while they are there.

Conclusion

Having a point guard who knows your system, who can get the team into their sets, and can get the players the ball is a tremendous value.  We as fans have been able to get a good idea of how good Alonzo Gee is.  Of how good Gary Neal is.  Of how good James Gist is.  We were able to see all these guys in situations similar to those they would get in a Spurs game because our point guards are competent.  Gary Neal has been able to launch spot up jumpers because we can run plays that involve kick outs.  Alonzo Gee has been able to iso him man on the wing because we have a point guard that can get him the ball on the move.

If the Spurs are able to kick Curtis Jerrells $50K/year on top of his D-League salary just to run the Spurs' Summer League team, it will be worth it.  Whether he is able to land a roster spot or not, CJ is a very valuable asset for the franchise. 

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State of the Spurs

Oct 2010 by CapHill - 38 comments

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Good analysis of Jerrells, Wayne. I think it’s going to be a difficult decision to make, with Gee, Gist, Neal, etc.

 What do you think the odds are of us investing in Gary Neal?

"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."

by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jul 15, 2010 8:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Very, very low.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 15, 2010 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

We need to have some kind of a backdoor deal with Neal. “Hey man. Go play in Europe for 2 more years, then we’ll pay you big money to come back and be our sixth man/designated gunner”.

He’s been lighting it up. He’s not as quick as Tony is, but as far as scoring point guards go, i think he has the talent to make it. He’s at least an average defender too.

Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis

by SpursfanSteve on Jul 15, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’ll be honest, watching today’s game, i thought “hey, thats Tony’s teardrop! AND he makes 3’s! and he can run the pick and roll!”

LETS TRADE TONY AND SIGN NEAL!!!!
(j/k). I thought all but the last part. He can create within the Spurs offense (probably close in summer league to the same level Hill can in the NBA) and he can shoot from all over. I think he needs to be in Austin, at least.

Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis

by SpursfanSteve on Jul 15, 2010 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

He’s not a scoring point guard. He’s a scoring shooting guard. And he’s 25 or 26.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 15, 2010 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but he can handle the ball (at least at the summer league talent level). I’d have a hard time believing he’s not at least as good as JR Smith. Who, by the way, is a ninkampoop. Neal is not.

Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis

by SpursfanSteve on Jul 15, 2010 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’s tough to evaluate these guys at the talent level of Summer League, because Summer League success does not always translate to NBA success.

Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis

by SpursfanSteve on Jul 15, 2010 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

But an open shot made at any level still counts for 2/3 points. That’s something that the Spurs were missing with RMJ last year…Hopefully Anderson can pick up the slack in that dept, but a Neal would be a great guy to have when you need someone to make open shots or some quick buckets.

by xman130 on Jul 16, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is all kinds of awesome, Wayne. I love the way you analyze this—not just the stone, not just the pond, but all the ripples.

I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.

by Lauri on Jul 15, 2010 8:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks, but I’m not sure I’d call The Mavericks ripples.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 15, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

“Ripple Ponies”

I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.

by Lauri on Jul 15, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

1. If you haven’t seen “Riding Giants”, you absolutely must. Fantastic documentary. Otstanding, even.

2. Check out this link on the 2006 Mavericks Surf Contest. The first 10 seconds will give you an idea. The 55 second to 1:10 mark is just crazy.

3. Here’s a screen capture of the 1:13. Yes, that is a person launched from a wave.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 15, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh hell yeah I’ve seen it. And I’ve seen all the classic big surf movies: The Endless Summer, Morning of the Earth, Thicker than Water, Step Into Liquid, etc. I’ve been to Mavericks—it really IS crazy, in the best way.

Did you see Peralta’s documentary Dog Town and Z-Boys? Thought that was really good, too.

I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.

by Lauri on Jul 16, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Link?

"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG

by LasEspuelas on Jul 16, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, sorry about that. I forgot it and I’m on the road now. Google mavericks 2006 big surf.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 16, 2010 11:18 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Cap, please take note, another nic for your (increasingly personal) collection.

I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 16, 2010 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great post, Wayne. My opinion of Jerrells is changing from game to game. Last game, i was in the “he’s overdribbling” crowd. Today, things seemed to come easier to him. Now, i think i’m in the “hes inconsistent, but he’s young and that will probably get better with time” crowd.

In addition to his pro potential, he’s incredibly valuable for all the reasons you mentioned.

I hate how backed up we are at the guard spot. I guess it’s a good problem to have, but i really enjoy watching Squeaky play. He gambles a lot for steals, and he gets a lot, but he gets burned sometimes too. From what i’ve seen, on offense, he’s a good facillitator who usually makes the right decision. I’ve been really impressed with he defense though. You can tell he’s a very, very smart player. If worst comes to worst, and Tony, Temple, and Hill all get hurt, I’d love to see him have the designated JV role. Get the ball up court, run the offense, play good defense, and hustle, hustle, hustle. I think he could turn out to be better than that, but i think thats the absolute worst he would be in the NBA.

I’ve ranted. apologies.

Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis

by SpursfanSteve on Jul 15, 2010 8:57 PM CDT reply actions  

I made some comments in various threads that you really have to watch CJ a lot to appreciate his game. The more you watch, the more you realize how good he is.

I’m also going to make a guess that Chip Engelland is working on his shot right now. He usually has a funny hesitation at the top before his release and it isn’t there on his free throws. Which I think is why he looks so uncomfortable shooting them and why he isn’t hitting much of anything from the perimeter. CJ is normally a pretty good shooter and he’s not showing it in SL.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 15, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hate how backed up we are at the guard spot. I guess it’s a good problem to have

There are certainly worse problems than being overstocked with talented PGs/SGs/combo guards, especially ones that know (or are learning) the Spurs’ system. :)

I like that they have this ‘problem’ — competition brings out the best in winners, and talented PGs that know your system are extremely valuable. People who talk about trading Tony for say, Felton (plus picks or other players) don’t seem to get that it could take more than a season for the new PG to internalize all the nuances of the Spurs’ offensive — and more importantly, the defensive — sets. We’d be writing off not just the coming season, but part of the next one as well.

For the same reason, I got excited when it looked like LA might lose both their #1 and #2 PGs from last season. Can you imagine the nightmare that next season could have been for them, with Blake struggling to learn the triangle as the starting PG? To bad Fisher re-signed….

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Jul 16, 2010 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

He might stay with the Toros, but I doubt he gets a roster spot on the Spurs.

He’s a victim of the wrong place at the wrong time. Just too much young talent the Spurs have. Not enough spots, and unfortunately, he’s not a big forward.A new for point guards could of course change if Spurs changed their roster up.

I hope he makes an NBA team eventually. Just don’t see it with the Spurs.

by grego21 on Jul 15, 2010 9:01 PM CDT reply actions  

I think he most likely ends up being the last cut from the team in the Fall and back in Austin. However, I could see him sneaking onto the roster as the third point guard, and second true point guard in the JV role.

I disagree with your assessment of Temple, btw. But that is a whole nother post. I like him (a hell of a lot and I think he is a lock to make the team), I just don’t think he’s a point guard. Yet. That said, it is still a numbers game and it doesn’t look good for CJ.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 15, 2010 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with your thoughts on Temple, he’s a good aggressive player on both ends who knows his limitations, but I don’t see him being point guard. In the Spurs system though, he definitely could pass as one, which is all that is important for us.

Very insightful post btw. A nice way of perceiving how valuable they are from a point I didn’t think of before.

You are only young once, but you can be immature for a lifetime

by the little o on Jul 15, 2010 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very insightful post btw. A nice way of perceiving how valuable they are from a point I didn’t think of before.

I totally agree with this statement. I had never considered this aspect in the Spurs’ use of the Toros as a minor league team. The money the Spurs gave to Jerrells and Gee at the end of last year seems to have been extremely well spent. Just another way to help improve the organization and to reward D-Leaguers for their hard work.

by CapHill on Jul 15, 2010 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

For Gee, it was more about him not getting snatched up again, because their gamble almost didn’t work out, if Wiz kept him. Luckily they pulled a great move and dropped him. Could be the same for Jerrells as well though.

by grego21 on Jul 15, 2010 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

So do you think that Temple is more of a 2 guard for us? I really like his aggressiveness and I like this size and I hope you’re right about him being a lock for the roster. But does that mean he’d play beside Tony or George? I guess if he’s not going to be running the point, he’d be better with Tony?

by GMac14 on Jul 15, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tony is our only real PG, imo.

Garrett would be good alongside TP or Manu, and ok with George.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 15, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

He is, and it has always been that way, but Spurs have always had solid passing at their other positions which allows them to get away with a lack of PGs.

by grego21 on Jul 15, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is that a weakness that we only have one true PG? I know Manu usually runs the offense when Tony is out, but with him getting up there in age, shouldn’t the Spurs be working to take a little of that ball handling skills away from him? Or does that basically take away what Manu does best?

by GMac14 on Jul 15, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not all of Manu’s passing is based off of penetration, so I think he’s fine from that aspect. Just not as much on the penetration and kick passing.

by grego21 on Jul 15, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

grego, that comment reminds me of the sig that scrappy-doo used to sport.

You can check it out here.

I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 16, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he’ll be somewhere with the organization for another year or two at minimum if he were to eventually leave.

I only see him coming up to the Spurs if due to injuries. Spurs can also take more of a chance on him being unsigned compared to some of their other players like a Gee for instance. I think Gee will be signed, but probably with the Toros for one more year.

Not sure what to think about Gist yet. He has those flashes that make you want to take chances on him. Then there’s also Hairston. If he can nail the jump shot consistently, he would be good to have on the roster. And then there is Temple, but I think he’s got his spot secured unless he does something crazy.

Well, my thoughts about Temple and playing PG, aren’t about being a pure point guard. It’s mostly a point guard that fits the Spurs system. Now, with that said, I think he’s better than Hill as that “other” point guard.

My reasoning for picking Temple over Jerrells if it came down to that, is the versatility/overall skill level especially with a Tony, Manu and offense coming out of 4 down with a post man.

by grego21 on Jul 15, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

idea!

wouldnt it be great if we could have some sort of trades go down within D league, of course w/out having it get too technical? is this a stupid idea? haha i know you can pick up anyone you want but i would like to see players get traded rather than purchased only to find out their incompetent w/in your syst. know what i mean?

*****LE0NArD'0******

by leonardo on Jul 16, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

the reason i say this is because we have a flood of guards and good prosp however i see alot of big talent elsewhere and their teams already have great front lines

*****LE0NArD'0******

by leonardo on Jul 16, 2010 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great post, Wayne. I never really thought of Jerrells or any of the Spurs’ fringe PGs (or any player for that matter) this way.

By the way, Chad Forcier, whoever he is, was pwned by the SB Nation auto-tagger.

Just cause we're crippled, don't mean we gotta take the crumbs.

by silverandblack_davis on Jul 15, 2010 9:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Heh. He’s an assistant coach who looks like he is about 18 years old.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 15, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

JMcDonald_SAEN

James Gist has a sprained left wrist. Out 1-2 weeks. Won’t play again in Vegas, obviously.

Just cause we're crippled, don't mean we gotta take the crumbs.

by silverandblack_davis on Jul 15, 2010 9:57 PM CDT reply actions  

Awww, what a shame. With Blair out, he would have gotten some good play.

by grego21 on Jul 15, 2010 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Summer League is really being hard on the Spurs this year

by LakehillsFan on Jul 15, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. Not so cool especially for a guy like Gist who is still on the bubble.

by grego21 on Jul 16, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting post, Wayne.

I smell death... everywhere.

by LatinD on Jul 15, 2010 10:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Excuse me, I didn’t know where else to post this, but this is classic!

by richbruiser on Jul 15, 2010 11:02 PM CDT reply actions  

That’s gorgeous.

I always knew someday I was going to go viral - Paul "Double Rainbow" Vasquez

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 16, 2010 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

my bad.. didn’t know you posted it here.

by FreshmakerDTM on Jul 16, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love jerrells, not gonna lie. He has caught my eye since he was at our training camp last year

by NinjaRabbi on Jul 16, 2010 12:20 AM CDT reply actions  

I watched the last 2 mins of the 3rd and the last 7 mins of the 4th.The last 2mins was very fast pace.Teams where exchanging buckets.And I was impressed with one Curtis pass,one Gee pass which didn’t turned into a bucket so as that of Gary Neal’s pass.I like Gee,Neal and Curtis and even Watkins.But having Gary is unlikely since he’s a 6-4 combo guard.Watkins might have a chance.I think Ryan hasn’t signed with us still and if we sign Ryan,still have Curtis and Gee and James Jones(if we sign him),I don’t know how many guys we’ll have.Great SL for us.Btw,when is Blair playing?I really hope he can play at least 1 game for us.

Champion of Me. All about ‘Bron and all about nothing.

by tp_09 on Jul 16, 2010 6:30 AM CDT reply actions  

They attempt, in the span of 4-5 games, to assess how good a player is.

Sometimes it is just a fools gold but sometimes SL really does help the players so as teh team if that player deserves a spot.And sometimes,like Hill,first times tastes bitter.

Champion of Me. All about ‘Bron and all about nothing.

by tp_09 on Jul 16, 2010 6:34 AM CDT reply actions  

By my count, absolute locks for the roster are Parker, Hill, Ginobili, Hairston, Jefferson, James Anderson, Duncan, Blair, Splitter, Dice, Bonnaroo, and Temple. That’s 12. If we sign James Jones, that puts us at 13. With 4 guys who can run “point” (Used here simply in the very loosest of senses of being able to get the ball up and put us into our offense. As Wayne said earlier, Parker is our only true PG, and I’ll go one step further and say that none of the Spurs guards are classic PGs in the Steve Nash, J. Kidd mold, don’t know if it’s part of the Spurs philosophy, or that’s just who we’ve found in the draft, but we seem to be all about the scoring pg’s) in Parker, Hill, Ginobili, and Temple (at least for a little bit in the regular season). So yeah, I like Jerrells, but I just don’t see him making it. In my ideal world, the last two spots would go to Gee and then the closest thing we could find to a 2011 edition of Kevin Willis. Mainly because I like to watch guys dutifully put their elbow pads on before checking in.

GO SPURS GO!
5 IN '10!

by WillyD on Jul 16, 2010 8:27 AM CDT reply actions  

havent had the chance to follow live, but I have all the games DVRed and I actually made it thru the first win over the Minne summer team, so my opinions of Curtis Jerrels are limited to my knowledge of him from Baylor and what I have seen so far. this year, that entials just one game – so if has gone nuts in the last two Summer League games, then I might consider revising this opinion. disclaimer over.

All the rest is just off the top of my head opinion.

To me, CJ is a guy who is a little sloppy with the handle, but has the ability to make the right pass – sometimes even the great pass. he’s a guy who will jack shots without feeling guilty. the problem with this is that he had enough athletic ability to get himself open all the time in college. less so on the summer league/pro level. he is the kind of guy that can score in bunches, but his game is better suited to the #2 position. the hired gun kind of guy who hits the floor in the second period jacking shots with the hopes of getting hot and going for 23. the bad news about this is that his size pretty much precludes him of playing that role in the NBA.

as i have said a number of times on this site, i love me some of those Baylor guys from the last 2-3 years and Jerrels is the face of that team. as much as i want to see him make it with the Spurs, I just dont see it unless there is some other movement at the PG position. i’m rooting for the guy, but he seems destined for Austin – or another team if he can find the right spot.

by bones on Jul 16, 2010 1:03 PM CDT reply actions  

He had some key drives in games #2 and 3. Also, I think point guard leadership (CJ + Squeaky) was the main reason we beat a more talented Lakers group. Overall I agree with you, though. The Spurs signed Temple and Gee late in the season to keep them away from other teams. They signed Jerrells to reward him for his work in Austin. Past and future.

by doggydogworld on Jul 16, 2010 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

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