From 4 Down to SLOB's and BLOB's -- It Aint Easy Being a Spur
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 2, 2010 7:17 PM CDT
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I feel sorry for Richard Jefferson. As strange as it sounds, I feel sorry for the guy. Don't get me wrong, I was with you, fellow Spurs fans, asking for his head on a pike previously. But maybe I was too quick to judge him. Maybe we all were.
Over these past few weeks that the Spurs have been fishing or hanging out with Scottie Pippin, visiting Austria, going to UFC fights, or birthing twins, I have been studying my Spurs on a more analytical position than ever before. Previously, I've brought you stories where I break down plays or certain defenses. But now, I believe I have complete knowledge of the Spurs offensive scheme (barring any drastic changes that may be made to plays in the off season (unlikely)). Now, you couldn't get me on a court and expect me to play exactly like a Spur would because I have no talent and I would look like an idiot.
Spurs Offense Defined
The Spurs offense is obviously based around Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, and Tony Parker -- in that order. You may be thinking that because the Spurs offensive scheme is extremely reliant on the "big three", that they are the most important players on the court. While this is true on a scoring standpoint (you've gotta score to win right?), the other players on the court are just as, if not equally, as important. I'll give you an example:
4 Down
If you have watched the Spurs any time since Tim Duncan was drafted, you've seen this play so many times that you've probably got it scarred in your head. For those who don't know it, the play calls for the 4 player (Duncan) to get the ball in the post and for him to try and score (or if not possible, pass to an open team mate and start over). The visual cue is a hand with 4 fingers waving down.
Seems easy enough, right? How could a player have a hard time with this play? It gets complicated for new players when you add "audibles" to the original plays. For example, there are many, many variations of 4 Down like 4 Down Lift, 4 Down Chicago, etc. etc. The plays may be similar, but there are slight variations that change the potential outcome and the ability to both understand and apply the concept of the play on the court is essential.
That's just 4 Down, though. The Spurs have an encyclopedia of plays that can be called at any time, and if you don't know what you're doing you're going to look like a fool (see: Richard Jefferson).
Often times, RJ would look out of the play and effortless. The truth is, he probably was out of the play in a way. In order to really fit with the Spurs you have to be able to not only execute the plays, you must be able to improvise instantaneously and convert the opportunity. To explain what I mean, watch the following play:
In this play, RJ and the rest of the team run the play fine, but TD gets tangled up by three Suns defenders. Seeing this, RJ slides over to the middle, gets the pass from TD and draws the foul. I don't honestly believe RJ would have done the same thing at the beginning of the season. He simply did not have the confidence in the system to call his own audibles. His free throw attempts per game (which was 3.5 FTA per game) reflects this lack of confidence.
RJ's offense in the past has been either to get the fast break opportunity or to post up. The Spurs have asked him to do something entirely different, which is to be a spot-up shooter and play runner. Think about it...he's gone through his entire career with plays run for him and broken garbage plays (fast breaks), and now all of the sudden he has to run 4 Down, 1-5 Loop, Corner, and the like?
In Short
The Spurs offense is technical and demanding and the defensive schemes aren't a walk in the park either. It takes a skilled player to be productive in the system. Richard Jefferson is skilled in a way that would be productive in a system like the Nicks, Golden State, or any 7 seconds or less scheme. But don't be discouraged, the video I shared with you inspired me writing this. Richard really showed improvement and understanding of the system in the last half of the season. Do not expect huge trades or a bombshell signing this off season. Expect a smart, well thought out move by the Spurs FO. With expiring contracts of Roger Mason Jr. (gone), Matt Bonner (stays), Ian Mahinmi (gone), Keith Bogans (gone), Garrett Temple (stays), we have room to get another shooter (or defender) out on the court to help us in the 2010-2011 season.
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rec’d. and i share your sentiments. i fully expect RJ to be much, much better next year.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
Thanks! I hope he is too.
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 2, 2010 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions
all the pictures except for Manu were of TP. Not sure you can say the Spurs have been doing these things….though maybe they are and just not in the lime light…..sounds like those guys
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
Tim Duncan was also in that Rampage-Evans UFC fight in Vegas. I saw it on TV and the broadcast team and the crowd acknowledged his presence. I also thought I heard a few boos when TD was shown on the big screen.
Just cause we're crippled, don't mean we gotta take the crumbs.
by silverandblack_davis on Jun 2, 2010 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Were they saying “boo” or “boo-urns”?
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 2, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Rec’d. good insight to prevent the basting of a turkey as a representation of RJ upon the grill fire which is the 4th of July
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
Is the role of RJ on that play to stand there waiting? He does not move until Duncan gets triple covered.
In other news, just saw one of the saddest moments I have ever seen in sports. Armando Galarraga, pitcher for the Detroit Tigers, had a perfect game until the last out. The ump blew the call at first base and he lost the perfect game. SO SAD!!
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
Yes, the play asks for RJ to float there.
And that baseball moment is killer. OUCH.
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 2, 2010 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah.. if timmy is doubled and he passes out of it, the ball swings to that corner, where RJ should be ready, preferably to knock down an open 3, although he is waiting a couple steps inside the arc.
by FreshmakerDTM on Jun 3, 2010 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
too bad his 3ball % is horrible
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Jun 3, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
true… maybe if he wore a Bucks jersey under his Spurs jersey he’d shoot at that .397 clip…
i think that .397 is what sold him to the Spurs FO….
by FreshmakerDTM on Jun 3, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
This is brilliant, c_deck. I guess this is what pros do in the offseason. :)
I smell death... everywhere.
Thanks, D! Gotta keep busy or I’ll go insane
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 2, 2010 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I forgot to mention that unless RJ turns his game around in the first half of the 2010 season, he’ll be trade fodder come February.
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 2, 2010 9:10 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah, I completely agree, and thanks for the write up.
"I like the fact that he’s a man." – Hubie Brown on DeJuan Blair
by Manu ex Machina on Jun 2, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
No problem, thanks for reading.
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 2, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, at least that would be a positive for the Spurs if he doesn’t perform, he would be a lucrative contract to trade for many other teams…although not sure what you could get out of that expiring contract.
A good piece from a rebuilding team. For instance, say the Hawks lose JJ and end up having a massive letdown season where Josh Smith implodes and they’re looking at <30 wins. They’ll want to trade someone, get their salary down. Maybe we could pry away Crawford or Horford or Mike Bibby*, or something.
Virtually every year there’s at least one team that underperforms to a startling degree and has a fire sale to save money when they’re already awful. Check the wizards this year, for instance. We’ve just gotta hope that the team with the letdown season is one of the eastern teams with a good center that they could potentially be willing to part with. Just some frontcourt depth, really. I think Troy Murphy could be an interesting pickup if Tiago doesn’t come over.
- - This was a joke. Do not sustain a heart attack.
"Whereas I never went fly like some of the boys." -- Ice
Good write up. I agree with everything you said. RJ showed that he was making progress learning the system. I expect him to be better next year and if not he’s at least decent trade bait
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
Thanks, I agree with you.
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 2, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Great stuff, cd. I gotta wonder though, RJ can be used more than just how the Spurs usually utilize their SFs or role players. Why not make him the focal point of the offense for a few plays in a quarter? After all, he was brought in to ease the load off the Big Three. To continue running that 4-Down play for Tim, though very effective, is quite counter to what RJ was acquired for. Maybe use 3-Down instead and have RJ post up or whatever.
I want to see RJ involved in more pick and rolls with the Big Three. With his build, he can set screens for the guards and either pop out or barrel into the lane. I’m not sure I’ve seen the Spurs use him this way for some stretches.
Or maybe the drive-and-kick isos a-la Manu and TP. Jefferson’s had some games when he registered 3 assists or more so he couldn’t be that bad of a passer. Granted though, RJ also has to improve on his ball handling and get back to shooting at a higher percentage.
Just cause we're crippled, don't mean we gotta take the crumbs.
by silverandblack_davis on Jun 2, 2010 10:53 PM CDT reply actions
Thanks!
I agree that we saw very few plays called for Richard this previous season. What I’d like to know is if it was a confidence issue that Pop had, or the fact that besides shoveling out a pass to him, maybe the coaching staff simply didn’t have a play that honed in on Richard’s talents. The problem with that is his talents are back door screens and alley oops, and neither of which have ever been a forte of the Spurs. I’m hoping that the coaching staff feels comfortable now that he’s been in the system for a year that they can start developing plays for him, and maybe Pop will feel confident calling those plays. Time will tell…
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 2, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe they can design a play and call it Up-Top, which is a play for RJ to dunk the ball from an alley-oop.
Yo, I’m 6-11, but I just want to dribble through my legs and shoot jumpshots like a guard. - Marc Blucas on Tim Duncan
that kind of thinking gets you traded or released or fired in San Antonio.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
or sent to a prison camp in Siberia, never to be heard from again.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
by KA1Z3R on Jun 3, 2010 6:00 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
My mind is still recovering from the surge of dunks this season… I’m not sure if it can process a steady stream of alley-oops.
I’m a Spurs fan, dammit.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Jun 3, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
i know. i have no idea wtf to think. i hope it doesnt continue. Please, people, lay the ball in gently, like Timmy. As far as i’m concerned, there are 2 players who should be allowed to dunk: Dejuan, and Manu. When Manu one day (a long long time from now) is no longer able to do it, Tony will have to start. He’s done it once or twice, but really he’s going to have to step up the dunking once Manu is gone.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Jun 3, 2010 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Jefferson keep him until Feb
The problem with Jefferson is two fold. It doesn’t have much to do with his learning the system. First he is a below average perimeter shooter which makes him a deficit at the small forward spot. Teams just back off him and dare him to shoot. When he plays the power forward spot he lacks the size to go up against the bigger and stronger fours in the league. The same problem applies when he is playing defense. Unless he comes up with a much improved perimeter shot in 2010-11, I’d say “trade him.”
If Toronto is dissatisfied with Hedo as I read somewhere plus they could be rebuilding after Bosh ditches them, Hedo is a good option. Hedo was the 7th best SF in terms of 3 point percentage with 289 attempts (10th for SF’s) missing 8 games. He is on a long contract at about 10 million per though so it would be a big commitment from our FO.
If the Bobcats wanted to rebuild without Wallace (unlikely), he has a long term 9.5 million per year contract.
I thought Hedo was tired of Toronto.. oh well, didn’t he change up last minute and left Portlands deal on the table, for the same amount of money?
by FreshmakerDTM on Jun 3, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
+1. We've been there, He-done that. Not worth it.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Jun 3, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
subject line fail….
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Jun 3, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
all of this talk of “trade him” is good and all in theory but who the hell is going to pick him up for $14,000,000/1 season?
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
He’s an expiring contract, so the team that picks him up saves money.
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 3, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
ummmm – and that team would be stuck with him for 1 year. i wonder who would honestly be in the market for him? Phoenix?
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Jun 3, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
what about Kaman?… if the Clips are going to give Jordan more mins and have Blake Griffin playing next year, is Kaman a guy we can go after? I think he makes around the same as RJ… and RJ could probably start for them at SF.
He’s got a post game, jumpshot and defends/rebs well….
by FreshmakerDTM on Jun 3, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I havent seen Kaman play, but his stats look nice and his contract isnt as bad as Richards.
The Spurs = Not your granddaddies 7th seed !
i forgot to mention he’s coming off an all-star year
by FreshmakerDTM on Jun 3, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Kaman is a really good post player. Can play with his back to the basket and has 15-17ft range on his jumper. He’s a good rebounder and can block some shots.
yessir! i like his game.. losing must take a toll on him… he’d have a lot more fun playing and winning games in SA… and most importantly competing for a ’ship!
by FreshmakerDTM on Jun 3, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I’d be up for Kaman as long as he agrees not to grow out his hair like he did a couple years ago. That would scare small children.
nah.. they’d just start coming to the games with Caveman Kaman wigs..
by FreshmakerDTM on Jun 3, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
He had an absolutely ridiculous season in 2008, 16 PPG, 12.7 RPG and 2.8 BPG. It looks like he was injured though, because he only played 56 games that year.
The Spurs = Not your granddaddies 7th seed !
of course he was. he played for the Clips. everyone gets hurt.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Jun 4, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
your right
RJ for Kaman and Rasual Butler would be nice
thx Tim C
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Jun 3, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Interesting
I think that you make good points. I’ll be interested to see how Dyess and RJ (assuming he doesn’t opt out) do this next year with more time in the system. Hill made huge improvements from year 1 to 2, so hopefully we’ll see that with the other guys as well.
Good write up C-deck.
RJ was actually pretty effective on offense when he decided to shoot the ball from inside the arc.
He was the 7th best SF in terms of 2 point percentage at 51.5% and was 9th in PPS.
Ahead of him in both categories: Maggette (FTA machine) and LeBron (MVP)
Ahead of him in 2 point percentage only: Barnes, Kirilenko, W. Chandler, and Marion
Ahead of him in PPS only: Pierce, Durant, G. Wallace, Granger, Grant Hill, and Carmelo
nice info… AK47/Chandler missed a bunch of games, Marion missed a few as well
by FreshmakerDTM on Jun 3, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
nice stats
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Jun 3, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
he also didnt take near as many shots as any of those guys.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Jun 3, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
although a large number of his shots did have a higher degree of difficulty (taken in the last seconds of shot clock, contested/off balance)
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Jun 3, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree I think RJ will be better his second year with the team, but I have to add to that. I think he will be much better if we get a good big (everybody will be much better). He had to play PF and learn our system. My point is that he not only had to learn a new system, he had to play a position he wasn’t accustom to playing having to gaurd the rim. I really believe that if we had a big it would be Spurs and Boston playing right now. Having G and SF play C and PF will not get it done.
agreed.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Jun 3, 2010 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Is he kidding?
Does the writer of this article believe that the Spurs can go back to championship form without a major makeover? Please, the Spurs need a couple of new players, especially a 6-10/6-11 guy who can play defense and rebound because Duncan, as he ages, needs help. And Jefferson is no brain surgeon.
Yes, the writer thinks they can make it far without a major makeover. Although it depends on what you mean by “major”.
"We'll see how our character is," guard Tony Parker said. "We don't have time to be sad. Nobody cares. It's just us. We're the only ones who can help each other."
by Josh Guyer (completely deck) on Jun 4, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
To see a bit further into why he’s not kidding, as well as looking at the answer to your prescription of
the Spurs need … a 6-10/6-11 guy who can play defense and rebound
please go here for a scouting report on the center we own the rights to and hope to sign this summer.
Be careful; apparently I'm unrelenting in my bonhomie.
Maybe it’s just me but the last 3 championship teams, apart from the big 3, were not that talented. From what I remember, (again correct me if I’m wrong) it was filled with three really good players and a bunch of guys that only did a couple things well or in other words role players. We still have the big three who can still play well. We just need the right role players to play well
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
We still have the big three who can still play well. We just need the right role players to play well
I think, this is the biggest mistake we, as Spurs fans, make, assuming that our big 3 are still good enough to bring us another championship. In fact, our big 3 are only good enough to be role players on a championship-caliber team. We either need a superstar, or barring that, a legit star at every position to contend again. Superstars are probably beyond our reach, so our only hope is to get 5-6 really good players.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
We either need a superstar, or barring that, a legit star at every position to contend again.
I disagree. I think we are one big man and a couple of three point shooters away from serious contention. The shooters can be had through free agency. Unfortunately the Spurs will have a hole at point guard if they decide to trade for a bigman.
But thats the breaks.
The Spurs = Not your granddaddies 7th seed !
It’s easy to get a big man, but the problem is that we need a really good big man. Splitter, theoretically, can become such a man, if he comes and if his game transfers to the NBA. All other good big men are out of our reach, or we need to give up too much to get them, which we cannot really afford. Yes, we can find some shooters, at least for regular season. I don’t know, what the disagreement is about. I think, we need at least 5, better 6, guys who could play at the level of our big 3. Optimistically, we can think that either RJ or Hill will be such a player next season. Then we just need a PF/C who is about as good as 2010 edition of Tim.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
I think if Jefferson does opt out of his contract, we could possibly get a legitimate big man such as bosh or apostrophe. But we wouldn’t be able to get splitter. I don’t think we should risk that or else we might not get any of them though.
Dejuan BLAAAIIIIIIRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
I don’t think we can realistically discuss getting Bosh or Amar’e. Splitter may be a pipe dream too, but getting those guys are even more unrealistic.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
When Manu was killing every team in the league, Tim was dropping 25 a night against Dallas in the playoffs and Tony was the game changer against the Suns no one, I’m sure not even you Kondor, said that they were simply good role players.
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
Tony was the game changer against the Suns
Do you blame Tony for our series against the Suns? I wouldn’t.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
I don’t blame him for anything, In fact I think he was one of the few guys that actually played well in that series.
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
You called him “the game changer”, and we all remember how those games changed: we started good (except for the first game) and then the game changed and we found ourselves losing every time.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
He came off the bench and made good things happen when he did. They team played better when he came on and he stopped Nash better than George did. That’s all I mean. If it wasn’t for Tony, those games might not have even been close.
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
We have been swept in the playoffs. I don’t really care what the score was. May be it would be better if we lost by 30-40 each game, so people would stop saying that it was close. No, it was not close. We played 4 games and we lost 4 games. This is embarrassing, not close. Please, stop giving me this crap about being close. If you are swept in the playoffs, you are not close. It means you suck and you better do something about it if you want to stop sucking. Otherwise you’ll suck again next year.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
just because we got swept, you can’t say the whole team sucked….we also got swept by a single team meaning a match up issue with that team could be the bigger issue than our entire roster
we also aren’t the FO, we are fans….Pop and RC will analyze why we lost and won’t be satisfied that it was close. there will definitely be changes to the roster.
I think, this is the biggest mistake we, as Spurs fans, make, assuming that our big 3 are still good enough to bring us another championship
No! I do not agree! So you are going to say our star players are not good enough to get it done! The big three can not get it done cause they are too old? The big three are younger than Boston big three, who by the way are beating up on a younger Laker team. The diffrence between the Spurs and the Lakers and Boston is Lakers and Boston have size, thats it! If you watched the games this year you could see our biggest problem was defending the rim and getting rebounds. The job that a big man does for a team. Manu, Jeferson, Hill, Tony and other G and SF should not be trying to do a bigs job!
+1
Dallas was a really good team this year, better than their team last year, and we beat them. We got swept by the Suns because they had a bench that produced, George Hill got killed on the pick and roll, and no one on our roster could guard Frye at the 3 point line.
Bench: Hairston was hurt. Blair was a rookie. Mason was hurt and will be replaced next season. Gee and Temple weren’t ready. Bogans can’t produce with any consistency and will be gone or deeper on the bench.
George Hill: After seeing what he did with his shot last offseason among other things, I’ll bet on him learning from these playoffs and coming back much better next season.
Guarding Frye: Well, I’m not sure about this one, but if we fix the first two, it might not matter. It’s not like we got blown out….
A big man would have a huge impact on our team. The Suns series would have had a different outcome. We always beat the Suns why? We always had size on them they couldn’t match up with. This time they had size plus they out played us in small ball. This time we couldn’t match up with them.
A big man would have a huge impact on our team.
What big man? It sounds like you would dress a 7-feet scarecrow in sliver and black, and it would scare the Suns away. Would Jerome James have “a huge impact”? Would Big Z win a series against the Suns to us? How about Shaq? Maybe Youngevity would have a huge impact? Of course, it you talk about Gasol, Howard or Dirk, each of those guys would help us to win, no doubt. But not your token big man. At this point we need a big man who is about as good as our “big 3” as a basketball player. It’s a Hard-to-Get Big Man.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
I think the Spurs would have done far better against the Suns if they had Robin Lopez available to limit their small ball and Frye’s minutes a little.
Dampier and Haywood could not match up with us. Traditional bigs, which Robin Lopez is, are not a big threat to Duncan. Jarron Collins played the first 8 minutes of the games and then was benched the rest of the game. That is why we started the games so well and then couldn’t finish, they beat us with small ball and proper floor spacing by their role players.
The difference is Boston’s 4th player is outplaying their Big 3 by a large margin. Our 4th player couldn’t stay in front of Steve Nash.
by doggydogworld on Jun 7, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
No one could stay in front of Nash that’s why we need a big so when Nash or who ever blows by our 4th best player there is a big waiting on Nash or who ever comes into our paint.
Actually, Tony stayed in front of Nash quite well. And an extra big coming to help against Nash doesn’t work very well, he’s too good of a passer.
Tim is our main problem against the Suns. His pick and roll defense has slipped a lot and he can no longer score/assist at will against the Suns’ weak defense (partiy because their defense is less weak but mostly because Tim is older).
by doggydogworld on Jun 7, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Completely agree with you. I just wanted to add that Duncan trying to guard Frye at the 3 point line was horrendous to watch as well. He couldn’t commit far enough from the paint to contest the shots (see Frye’s shooting percentage) and he was too far out of position from the paint to help on any penetration. The Suns played us really well.
I dont think Tim not scoring was the problem on offense. I think if our three point shooters are making their shots, Tim has more space to work and score. Tim wasnt getting doubled frequently, but they did crowd the floor towards him. Our biggest problem this year on offense was not having adequate spacing.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on Jun 8, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
The diffrence between the Spurs and the Lakers and Boston is Lakers and Boston have size, thats it!
Actually, that’s not it. The Lakers and Boston both have a ton of talent at 4 and 5 positions. Gasol, Bynum and Odom are all very good players. KG, Perk, Rashid and Big Baby are legit, though they have been outplayed by the Lakers bigs so far. Both LA and the Celts play a very good physical defense, they can shut down teams for long periods, which we weren’t be able to do at all this season. They have shooters like Allen and Kobe who can shoot the lights out, and we didn’t have any good shooters in these playoffs, as well as in a regular season. They have nasty guys, like Fisher and Artest, even Vujacic, who get under your skin and keep fighting to the end. They have a triple-double guy Rondo, they have multiple can-score-30-points-in-the-playoffs guys, which we don’t, they have 5+ blocks guys, which we don’t, they have physical presence in the paint, they have guys commanding double teams, they have guys who can play 40+ playoff quality minutes, which we don’t have. In short, they are much much better teams, and this is not really close, it’s like a college team compared to an NBA team, it’s like Puerto Rico national team compared to USA national team. This is not just some freaking size, this is a difference between a championship contender and a mediocre middle-of-the-pack NBA also-run team.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
The Lakers and Boston both have a ton of talent at 4 and 5 positions
Have you forgot about a very good rookie we have # 45 plus a second year player who unlike Rondo can actually shoot the ball. You forget about a scarecrow C in Rasho Nasteravic. He helped us win a championship and he’s not Gasol. You praise LA and BC and talk as if the Spurs were the New Jersey Nets!
R u crazy? Tell me honestly, r u insane or what? I’m talking about Lakers talent at 4 and 5 and you you are coming back talking about Rondo. The Spurs have nobody who can be compared to Rondo. Rondo had a triple double in the Finals. You know who was the last guy who got a triple-double in the Finals before Rondo? It was a guy named Tin Duncan in 2003. Yes, we used to have a guy who could pull out a triple double in the Finals. We don’t have such players anymore. Yes, San Antonio Spurs are no different from New Jersey Nets when you talk about winning the championship. Both teams have the same odds of winning: 0.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
You call someone else crazy then say the Spurs are the same as the Nets?
by doggydogworld on Jun 9, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow. The Nets huh? So we might as well not have given Manu that extension and trade Tim and Tony away. Save them the trouble of playing another season when they have no chance of winning.
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
they have multiple can-score-30-points-in-the-playoffs guys
Although no Spur scored 30 in these playoffs, Tim and George each got 29, Manu got 27 (twice, and 26 twice). Tony’s high was only 26 but he’s certainly capable of scoring 30 in the playoffs.
Pierce and Allen have gone for 30+ and Rondo for 29, but KG’s 22 against the Cavs is the only time he’s hit 20.
Pau had a 33 and Kobe has a tone of 30+ games, but no other Laker even equaled Tony’s 26. Artest, Bynum and Fisher each have a couple of 20+ games, Odom and the others have none.
Note the Celts and Lakers have played roughly twice as many games as the Spurs, which should boost their results. Bottom line, I’d say the Spurs have 4 guys capable of 30 (Big 3 + George), the Celts only have 3 because KG’s offense has declined and the Lakers really only have two. But both teams have more 20+ point scorers than the Spurs.
The king of 20+ is the Suns. They had 7 different guys get 20 this post-season, plus Dudley got 19. The #8 guy on our list was DeJuan with a playoff high of 8 points.
did and also faced weaker competition, so if they had other guys capable of hitting 30 they’d have done so by now. their #4 and 5 guys more chances to notch a big game. But our #4 high game guy (Parker @ 26) was much closer to 30 than their #4 guys (KG @ 22 and Fishert @ 25). So I’d say we have as many
by doggydogworld on Jun 8, 2010 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry for the garbled text at the end. Past my bedtime.
by doggydogworld on Jun 8, 2010 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Small ball is not the formula for a championship. The two teams in the finals this year have size. Now if small ball was the formula we would see Golden State and Atlanta Hawks playing for rings cause no one does small ball like them.
Look at Kobe he has never gone to the finals without a dominant big man and even when he went without Shaq He lost. How many times has our big three lost in the finals? Give us Three good bigs in San Antonio and we are in the finals every year! Point is our big three has won with a lot less talent! Remember Detroit?Detroit beat LA and was favored to beat San Antonio. Who won that series?
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