A look at the off-season
by Big50 on May 12, 2010 1:25 PM CDT
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PrintSo we've had a post already going over the series and how if a thing or two had been different the Spurs would have been in it (Of course every series is like that). We've already gotten an off-season things the Spurs need to do thread. And we've had several fan posts with opinions both good and bad, not that I'm judging...oh, yes I am, sorry 'bout that. I know we will have countless hours, days and weeks to throw around theories of what should and should not be done by the Spurs in order to improve, but I thought I'd throw out some thoughts on the matter.
Not worth $15 million, but better than nothing at the SF spot.
Firstly, let me say that you folks wanting Richard Jefferson to opt out of his contract need to slow your roll. I'm not some huge RJ fan wanting him to stay here. That being said, if he opts out of his contract and we re-sign none of our free agents our cap situation is still awful, worse in fact. RJ is owed $15.2 million. The estimated cap is going to be around $58 million next year, or possibly lower. The Spurs are locked into $69 million next year assuming RJ keeps his 15.2 million. If he opts out the Spurs will be sitting at 4 million under the cap with only 9 players. A team does not get a MLE if it's under the cap, so that's less money to offer Splitter and then very little money to do anything else with. My point is that RJ is going to be expensive to be sure, and I'd love to see a sign and trade or just a trade with RJ in it, but him opting out is not going to help the Spurs. Find out about the Spurs cap here at Sham Sports.
So what do the Spurs need to do? Well, first let's get Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili healthy and rested. Then I hope to see R.C. Buford and Co. over trying to get Splitter headed this way. You can talk of getting some third rate big man (Haywood, ect.) to help clog the middle, but the upside of Splitter is much higher than any plausible free agent the Spurs might get. It's been pointed out several times on this blog that the need for a big to help Tim Duncan is very important, I agree. That's why I think that getting Splitter is the teams #1 priority this off-season.
Hopefully this is a sight we'll see soon.
So let's assume that the Spurs get their man in Splitter. What other needs do the Spurs have that they must fill. Well there are several: Shooters who can play defense, defensive stopper who can shoot, an additional big to help with depth, a SF who can help RJ (if he comes back) with defense and scoring.
That's a pretty formidable list considering the Spurs cap status. Let's take a closer look at what the Spurs have on the roster and in the farm system (that's a baseball term for guys in the minor leagues, or in this case in the D-league).
- Malik Hairston - A possible answer to defensive stopper who can shoot and play at the SF spot.
- Garrett Temple - A tweener guard with the size to match up on the smaller SF's of the world
- Alonzo Gee - A SF who can score. I don't know much about him, possible SF back up.
- Curtis Jerrells - A PG who will doubtfully be playing for the big club.
It would appear that the SF position is full of young guys who should be able to play and with Temple our backup PG situation is fine. All three of these guys can play two positions. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Spurs go with Hairston and Gee as the backup SG/SF and stick with Temple as the backup PG One thing that the Spurs could use is a SF/PF type of player in the Robert Horry / Lamar Odom.
Then there's the draft. I'm not sure what's going to be there when the Spurs draft. There's been talk of Quincy Pondexter or other SF types. Having done very little research I went over to nbadraft.net for some free draft info. They have the Spurs taking Daniel Orton, a PF freshman from Kentucky. I've seen Pondexter play and wasn't that impressed, albeit was just one game. Orton, from the little I've seen of him looks like he has loads of potential, but is very raw. Seeing how the Spurs have drafted in the past I would expect to see somebody none of us expect to see. Also, counting on a big impact from a draftee is a good way to be disappointed.
So that leaves us with the wonderful world of Free Agency. Here's a list of who's available or might be available. Some interesting names to be sure, very few of which the Spurs have a shot at. I believe the Spurs have an MLE at their disposal and do not have BAE (no BAE since they had one last year and after all it's bi-annual). Please correct me if you discover something different. So we are very limited as far as FA's go. This is where I have little to no knoweldge, re-signing our own FA's. I think bringing Matt Bonner back would be a good idea and I wouldn't be upset to see Ian Mahinmi back for a discount. I'm not sure how that effects the cap space and would be happy for somebody to explain it to me.
To summarize: I think this team is in need of a serious upgrade in big men. We have an answer for that in Splitter, if the FO can't manage to get him here, I'd love to see us get a solid big guy, who's got some years left, to help out our defense. Our one glaring need that I'm not sure can be filled by the guys we have is shooters. I'm not sure how the FO plans to address that, but it's something that I hope they take a hard look at. I think our young guys will be asked to step up and be good shooters and defenders. I think some of them will.
This team isn't done. We've got the foundation for winning basketball, it just needs some framing and wood work with a piece here and there.
Let the work begin.
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This is really good stuff, and you’ve touched on a few of the things that are in the post about SF’s(coming in the next couple of weeks, I promise). I’m high on Stanley Robinson, Paul George and Pondexter, but think the Spurs might even solve the SF situation before the draft.
Free Tiago Splitter!
Are you just throwing more rumors out there again, or do you have actual information? You’ve piqued my curiosity. Now I want to research stuff and not work.
I just think they might be putting feelers out there about different trades. It’s always nice to have your biggest needs realized before the draft, that way you can just go for the best available player regardless of position.
Free Tiago Splitter!
We need another big man for sure. Duncan & Dice have too much mileage. What’s the deal with Splitter anyway? Didn’t we draft him like 3 years ago? Is he too stuck up to come to San Antonio? If that’s the case, I say screw him.
If less is more, imagine how much more more would be
No, his salary would have been bound to the NBA rookie scale. Why give up the millions of dollars he made in Europe? He is no longer tied to the rookie scale, so the Spurs can offer him more money. Besides, he’s been playing in one of the best European leagues for the last 3 years. So the Spurs will be getting a more seasoned player, without having to pay during the development years.
Plus his sister was dying, and he wanted to stay in Spain and be close to her. That may have had even more to do with it than money.
Free Tiago Splitter!
Thanks for the info, Tim. I did not know that.
General question for PtR: Will the Spurs continue to stash international players in Europe, or do you think they might start bringing some over and assigning them to the Toros?
I think the Spurs would only do that if the player they’re looking at has been playing in some third-rate league that doesn’t pay the way the big leagues in Europe do. Otherwise, the D-League would be inferior competition for guys like De Colo who play in the ACB or similar leagues.
BTW, I’m sure everyone’s heard of the Greek financial crisis by now. Childress, Kleiza, and Bourossis might even be on the market this summer if it affects the ownership enough.
Free Tiago Splitter!
I’ve always been high on Josh Childress, but his sitch with Atlanta is rather murky; IRC, he’s still a restricted free-agent, even if he comes back this summer. I don’t see where the Spurs find the money to bring someone like him in, unless it’s through a sign-and-trade.
...!!
by transgojobot on May 12, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
plus losing in the finals.but we don’t have any money for josh.but its always possible to sign tiago then raja right,then stick to the young guys and hope they improve this summer.
Ginobelieve!---That is Matt Bonner straight down the lane with the dunk,I repeat Matt Bonner down the lane with the dunk!LoL---NBA guy that recaps the games on NBA.com(Spurs-T'Wolves recap)---Manu is the god of basketball-write it down in your list of Greek gods.Zeus says its official---his a fan!
i am holding out hope for solomon alibi from florida state as far as the draft goes. 7-1 defensive presence. he would be a great compliment to tim right now and to splitter and blair going forward.
i feel like we are going to have to pick up a wing/shooter/defender thru free agency, developing what we have or finding another diamond in the rough – unless we pull a trade……what we really needed was for roger mason to have been the answer. either way, this is going to be the tougher need to fill. the draftable difference makers will be gone by the time our turn comes around and the free agent list is pretty underwhelming after the guys too expensive for us get picked over.
ps – old dex pittman from texas could be an available big in the second round of the draft if we wanted to try and get a good shooter type wing in the first round.
the anderson kid from okie state could fit the bill but we might have to mmonitor cap hill for heart palpitations if that happens….
I would say no to Pittman, because he was lazy and out of shape this year and I don’t think that mindset changes. Now, if the Spurs drafted Big Game James, I would seriously have to consider buying a jersey. And as much as my heart would love this move, my head says that we need a 3/4, not another 2/3. But boy can he shoot!
I thought Pittman was a 4/5 at UT. If the Spurs were going that route, I’m a little biased but I rather them pick up Derrick Caracter from UTEP.
“Big” is the operative word. He’s 6-10 and around 300 pounds, yet only averaged 6 rpg. He has talent, but I put him in the “headcase” category. Any UT fan may feel free to rebutt my opinion. However, his teammate Damion James would be a great pick.
I don’t know if I would go so far as to put him the headcase category, but his lack of rebounds was definitely partly due to his frustration with the team (the rest can be attributed to Damion James grabbing everything that bounced off the rim and also a little laziness as the season progressed). Right before UT was ranked number one, the offense started struggling to get Pittman the ball, and that’s when the team started going downhill. Before this, admittedly against a week schedule, Pittman had been dominant on both sides of the court and was, along with James, playing at an all-american level. When UT started trying to force an offense based on outside shooting instead of relying on Pittman and James inside, Pittman started to disappear from games. He also started getting in worse foul trouble defensively and eventually stopped crashing the boards as well. You could call this laziness and I really wouldn’t argue all that much, but I think he’ll perform at a much higher level once he’s playing with a different group of guys. A few more thoughts since I’ve been following him for several years; he is a great passer and normally has soft hands, though the last half of his senior season saw these skills disappear as well. Yes he is huge, but did anyone see how hefty Blair was his last year at Pitt? He is serious about his conditioning, and has lost loads of weight over the last few years.
Damion James on the other hand was the heart and soul of UT basketball even when they were faltering down the stretch. He was a double double machine and seems to have an almost Blair-like nose for rebounds. He is more of an athlete than a basketball player though, and struggles putting the ball on the court. I think he is ideal for Pop’s small ball as he has the athletic ability of a 3 and the rebounding skills of a 4, but he really isn’t a good enough dribbler or passer to play a 3 in a normal offense.
I agree with you. I want to draft a C(6-11-7 footers) and maybe an sf in the 2nd rnd.And sign Raja Bell in the free agency.
Ginobelieve!---That is Matt Bonner straight down the lane with the dunk,I repeat Matt Bonner down the lane with the dunk!LoL---NBA guy that recaps the games on NBA.com(Spurs-T'Wolves recap)---Manu is the god of basketball-write it down in your list of Greek gods.Zeus says its official---his a fan!
I think Haislip and McDyess both fit under the MLE, so we still have the bi-annual.
Also, you don’t lose the MLE if you’re under the cap. You just can’t use both your cap space and the MLE. If RJ opted out and the Spurs were at 54m with a 58m cap, they could still sign Tiago for the full MLE. But they couldn’t sign a shooter for 4m and then sign Tiago. RJ opting out would only help on salary (esp lux tax) but, as you note, would leave a hole at SF.
I thought Dice was signed using the BAE, which would leave the MLE for Splitter, but I can’t find confirmation of that anywhere.
Dice got most of the MLE, Blair got the rest. But the Spurs will have a new MLE available on July 1st.
Free Tiago Splitter!
Then could we also sign someone using the BAE? Srsly, I need a flow chart or something to figure this out, and Sham Sports doesn’t list who was signed using what tactic.
The Bi-annual exception is the one that is not available again every year(every two years, but it only becomes unavailable if it was actually used the previous year. To my knowledge, the Spurs did not use the BAE last summer, and are free to use it this year.
Free Tiago Splitter!
Tim C. is right, SAM and Beast split the MLE last year and I do not recall the spurs signning anyone into the BAE or LLE as it is sometimes called. All of the other minor signings were handled using minimum contracts which you can sign an unlimited number of regardless of cap situation (but of course can only have 15 players under contract at any one time).
While complacency costs, perseverance pays
what no trade parker option? I love what he did in the playoffs, and think he could definitely still play some good ball. But i still think Parker has a LOT of trade value being that he is a young and very talented scorer.
I would like to see parker traded for young shooters, particularly those adept at the 3 because our 3-point shooting needs worked on more than anything to me. I don’t think we have a single solid 3-point shooter (Bonner is wildly inconsistent as are Manu and Hill) and it seems the top teams have dominant 3-point scorers (Magic, Cleveland, Lakers, Phoenix, Boston, Atlanta)
Splitter is a big need, but if i had to choose between getting Splitter or some good 3-point shooters, I’m going with the 3-point shooters.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
no trade parker without firing Pop option
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
It’s easy to say “get 3 point shooters” and even “trade Parker for those shooters”, but really where is that going to come from? Parker is a top notch PG and you want to trade him for parts? Which parts? What shooters would make you happy? I just don’t see that as a viable option.
I don’t know, I need to see how the offseason will play out. I’m just saying that’s my preference.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
Every man and woman is entitled to his/her own opinion and it is my opinion that there are no “parts” that add up to the importance of Tony Parker to the Spurs
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
by bj1der on May 13, 2010 1:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
if we trade Parker, who is going to be creating shots for our newfound 3 point shooters? Hill can’t do it. Manu is great with the ball, but hes much better without it.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on May 12, 2010 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that 3-pt shooting can be found in a specialist or taught to most players. What Tony offers can’t be found at the end of a bench (think Kerr) or taught (speed). Plus, do we really want a new PG learning the system while running the team?
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I think Tony should develop a 3 point shot this offseason. I think he is almost there with a little work. I think it would take our current players to another level along with Hill’s improving defense/decision making.
Yep. Also, George needs to expand his range to the long 3. RJ needs to develop a set-shot corner 3. His ridiculous behind-the-head shot is OK for pull-up jumpers in traffic but not for spot-up 3s. Using a completely different style would be better than trying to fix the jumper.
by doggydogworld on May 13, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I like this idea. I think Tony is actually improving when it comes to three-point shooting but I am too lazy to look for stats that would support this.
In Manu, we trust.
by day_late_friend on May 13, 2010 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I would not trade RJ and we also need to convince Dice to comeback , I want to keep the core the intact, It took a long time to these guys to somehow mesh. What we need to replace is the role players.
First sign Tiago
Get rid of Bogans and Mase. Give Bogans’s spot to Hairston, and find a good reliable shooter to replace Mace.
I want the Spurs to bring De Colo this summer to see how he looks running an NBA team. Let him and Temple compete to the backup PG spot. The reason I want Naldo is becuase he’s a good shooter, at least in Spain. I think that Naldo can be a Brent Barry type player, someone that can run the offense and at the same time can shoot threes.
If the price is right we can keep Bonner and Ian
and finally we have a pretty low pick this year (20th), I think they should draft the best player available.
"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobili
Nando De Colo is San Antonio, that would be a dream come true. Well, a dream coming true sooner than expected. Nando is a like a raw but better 3-point shooting Parker.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
The guys in the D-League are better fits than Nando at this point. He just doesn’t have the speed and athleticism that the Spurs need at the moment.
I take the shooting and high BBIQ over athleticism any day of the week
"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobili
just look at RJ
"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobili
His D is weak. You already have a nice 3 guard lineup with Parker/Manu/Hill. Temple looked pretty good as a 4th key guard. It’s not exactly going to be an easy spot to get time for.
And yes, RJ is a good example. However, if he was making MLE level and playing the way he did of recent (without the earlier months), than he wouldn’t be such a disappointment. Obviously the contract will always be the big issue, but RJ’s passing and D were pretty good down the stretch.
We’ll see if he’s blessed by the second year player boost like other big named Spurs.
By the by, the Spurs only have 7 players due guaranteed money next year…if your curiuos as to who, just think of who the best seven players were in the playoffs.
While complacency costs, perseverance pays
Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Pau Gasol
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Dwight Howard
Really?
You are only young once, but you can be immature for a lifetime
by the little o on May 12, 2010 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
yes it does
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on May 12, 2010 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
and makes good neighbors, sometimes.
You are only young once, but you can be immature for a lifetime
by the little o on May 12, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
lol@ de-fence. +1
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on May 12, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Not worth $15 million, but better than nothing at the SF spot.
I just read that quote and started laughing. It made me think of something my grandfather used to always say when we’d complain about something. “Well, it’s better than a poke in the eye.”
So yes, RJ is better than nothing. He’s better in fact, than even a poke in the eye.
Great post, btw.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
So yes, RJ is better than nothing. He’s better in fact, than even a poke in the eye.
And amazingly enough, we got BOTH this year.
...!!
by transgojobot on May 12, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Duncan
Dice
RJ
Manu
Parker
Splitter
Blair
Malik
Hill
Nando
Bonner
Draft Rookie
"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobili
That bench is gonna rack up deficits, or give up big leads. There’s no go-to guy. I think next year we’ll see Manu back on the bench if TP is healthy.
Duncan / Splitter
Dice / Blair
Hairston / RJ
Hill / Manu
TP / Temple
Haven’t seen Nando so I don’t know if he’s any good. Man, looking at that roster, it really does look like we lack 3 pointers. Problem is, we’re already stacked at the 1/2 positions, so we have to get a 3/4/5 shooter. If we get a 1/2 shooter, who are you going to give less minutes to – TP/Manu/George? I fully hope George will get better at hitting 3s from places other than the corner.
De Colo is a good shooter, at least in Europe. The kid has a textbook release. He reminds me a little bit of Brent Barry.
"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobili
His passing is Manu-esque, too. I really hope we get to see him a year earlier than expected.
Free Tiago Splitter!
A while back I read somewhere that Dragic was Manu-esque and I scoffed at the notion. I guess that writer wasn’t so crazy :/
"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo
Eeeeeaaaaaaasssyy, guys.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on May 13, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Sup bro’s
I was thinking maybe we should go after Haywood, thats a nice big boddy to throw at teams
I think RJ will do better next year, and with this current market, and the Free agent bonanza, RJ would be an idiot to opt out considering how teams saw he played
But he’s still a good player, just not a creator but rather a finisher, he need’s to be spoon fed so he can feel better about himself in the offense, but he played some good D.
Suns Fans check their closets for Manu Ginobili Bro.
Yeah, I hope RJ gets better. The team has to make it a conscious effort to involve him more. But I’m keeping my hopes up!
I just hope he doesnt do some bonehead stuff like opt out, then we are really screwed. i think this is where Finley would of helped in the playoff’s, he’s still a solid shooter
Suns Fans check their closets for Manu Ginobili Bro.
by SpursNumberUno on May 12, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Here’s a list of the free agents from hoopsworld:
People I like for the Spurs (that we can afford with the BAE or less):
Anthony Tolliver – not sure how good he plays defense (wasn’t required to do so last season). At the very least, he’d be a more athletic Matt Bonner.
…………………..Damn, not many people I like in the cheap end of the free agent market.
Here’re people that I’d like to get if we can’t get Splitter to come, for the BAE or the minimum.
Amir Johnson – decent backup big
Darko Milicic – decent backup at the BAE. Will probably make more in Europe so not sure if he’ll be satisfied with the BAE.
Those are slim pickings. I like Shaun Livingston too, but not sure where he’d fit in unless we want to do more small ball and put him at the 3.
Here’s something I’ve been thinking of for a while:
These guys are PROS. Can’t they learn and practice how to shoot? For example, if TD dedicates himself and shoots and practices lots and lots of FTs, can’t he get close to 80% at least? And especially for someone like Temple or Hairston who needs to be able to stick in the NBA can practice their 3PT shooting, shoot 1000 shots a day if they have to, can’t they become amazing 3pt shooters? You can get a coach like Chip (let’s not let him have too much time with Grant Hill in the offseason again please?) to get things right, get a camcorder and have your shot analyzed, etc. TP was able to rework his shot. George too. Why not the others? Can’t Mahinmi learn to shoot from the 3 if he shot 1000 a day? Or is it something that some people just can’t learn?
Heck, if I were as athletic as Hairston or Mahinmi, and had trouble staying in the league, I’d put up 1000 shots a day if I had to, so that I’d get to at least double my salary from the league minimum.
Tim practices FTs all the time. He’s a great practice FT shooter — made 18 of 20 just before game 4. Game play is different. You’re a little out of breath and your legs aren’t 100%. Your shooting tricep aches from getting pummeled by a 300 pounder and you’re not shooting 20 in a row in a nice rhythm.
3 point shooting is even worse. Most people can’t even shoot a high percentage in practice. Bonner sometimes makes 90+ out of 100 in practice. He’s a freak. You could shoot 1000 3s a day for years and never get that good. There are literally thousands of great athletes dying to get into the league for whom a knock-down 3 would punch their ticket. If 1000 shots a day did the trick every team in the NBA would have a bench full of 50%+ three point shooters.
by doggydogworld on May 13, 2010 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Free throws are mental. 3 point shooting is natural gift + megahours of practice.
by doggydogworld on May 14, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m wondering if anyone else noticed that the Spurs have no real pass-first-mentality PG? I love TP and Hill but we need someone who can make plays for other players. I think that’s why everyone wants us to trade TP.
I look at the 16 teams that made the playoffs this season and most of them had pass-first PG’s. Nash, Kidd, Williams, Bibby, Rondo, Nelson, etc…
Bringing in a guy who could do that would make wonders for guys like Jefferson and Manu.
We don’t need better players, we need someone who can make our players better.
I love TP and Hill but
Who is Hill you are talking about? Last time I checked (in the 2nd round of these playoffs) we didn’t have a guy named Hill on our team.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
Ok, you just ticked me off big time, so I looked up some statistics. No George Hill didn’t have a phenomenal series but he didn’t exactly suck worse than anyone else.
Game 1 Hill shot poorly, 2 of 9 but made 5 of 6 free throws for 9 points: Jefferson had all of 5 points in that game.
Game 2 Hill was solid. He shot 5 of 11 and made his two ft. He outscored Ginobili who had only 11.
Game 3 Hill struggled shooting just 1 of 9, but did make 6 of 7 ft for 8 points. He outscored Jefferson who had 4. And Parker only had 10.
Game 4 Hill was solid shooting 6 of 11 and going 3 for 4 from the line for 17 points. He outscored both Jefferson and Manu.
So take your complaints about Hill—just a second year player trying to adjust to a new role in coming off the bench—somewhere else.
Shooting 14 of 40 is absolutely terrible and I’d bet George Hill would be the first to agree. I don’t think Kondor, or any other Spurs fan, finds joy in seeing him struggle like that. We all know George is capable of playing better, unfortunately he did not.
"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo
George Hill was supposed to be a Nash stopper on defense and a Nash punisher on offense. He has done none of it. If you love statistics that much, here is a statistics for you:
Game 1: -22 (team worst)
Game 2: -12 (team worst)
Game 3: -15 (team worst)
Game 4: -5 (bench player worst)
In a series, George Hill was our worst player. He was OK in game 4, otherwise just terrible. It’s not just stats, I actually watched the games too. Now I am trying to forget what I have seen from Hill in this series.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
George Hill is a second year pro. Want to know what Parker did in the playoffs in his 2nd year? He averaged 14-2-3 on 40% shooting. Want to know what Hill did? Average 13-3-1 on 45% shooting despite playing 3 or 4 game injured. I think he’s alright, bro.
"Whereas I never went fly like some of the boys." -- Ice
Basketball Reference and ESPN appear to disagree with that.
"Whereas I never went fly like some of the boys." -- Ice
Oops. I’d just read a post that said George was 14-40. But that was just Phoenix, not both rounds. And even then it was incorrect, should have bee 14-38.
by doggydogworld on May 13, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
hill did get roasted against the suns. he couldn’t check anybody on their team. Tony actually did a decent job on Nash when he checked him. I think the reason Tony did so well is because of familiarity with Nash’s game. I hope Tiago comes to the spurs but where do people get this upside stuff from with him? The guy will be 25 or 26 when the season starts so i am thinking he is the player he is by now. Maybe he will work in our system and play decent like he has overseas or maybe he will be overwhelmed by facing more athletic people than he has ever faced. Hopefully he will be fine. Also i agree with the one person who said that with practice some of the young athletic defenders we already have can become decent spot up shooters just like how Bruce Bowen and Tony Parker learned how to shoot better
by gunnin' gervin on May 12, 2010 10:34 PM CDT reply actions
Oh yeah bro’s
Is Splitter REALLY this super duper awesome incredible bro that’s going to come over here and get us over the hump ?
i dont see it
Suns Fans check their closets for Manu Ginobili Bro.
by SpursNumberUno on May 12, 2010 11:23 PM CDT reply actions
hes Anderson Varajao with a slightly better post game. Not an all star, but an above average player for sure.
Rim Rockin' Red Rocket -silverandblack_davis
by SpursfanSteve on May 12, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats means he’s Flop-tastic and can shoot jump hooks
Seriously though, i’ve watched some footage of him
i dont think he will come over here and produce like in Europe
Maybe, maybe not
but it just seem’s like everyone’s putting all of their ducks in the Splitter basket
Suns Fans check their closets for Manu Ginobili Bro.
by SpursNumberUno on May 12, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus, the hope in Splitter is more about realism in the team’s options. Given the cap situation, it’s not likely the team is going to find anyone better at a reasonable price. Even though he’s not 100% to join the team, it’s probably more likely than finding a decent trade that will improve the team.
I saw him play live in Fiba americas, to me he’s Andris Biedriņš with a post game and high BBIQ.
"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobili
this is like our roof is on fire, and we are discussing how to remodel the bathroom
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
by Kondor on May 13, 2010 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s like I can’t possibly rec this comment hard enough. Can we IMMEDIATELY put this on the quotes page please?
I was actually gonna write a post this evening about how we should definitely move to Vegas or Seattle, that San Antonio has been good to us but it’s time to revamp.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on May 13, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I am not convinced Splitter is the answer.
I am in favor of trading anyone not named Ginobili and Duncan for a big man. Yes this includes Parker.
Undoubtedly the “we won’t get equal value” argument will follow. I used to be a proponent of that argument, but after seeing Duncan play last offseason….We need serious help in the paint.
Yes, Duncan’s skill allows him to be tremendously effective despite his limited range of motion. But he was exposed by the Phoenix guards and wings. We need someone to help with defense alongside Duncan, and to be the paint presence when Duncan is on the bench.
I think Splitter is a band aid here. Blair will be a good bench contributor for years, but he isn’t the answer and neither is Mcdyess.
The Spurs would do well to maybe trade Parker and or Jefferson or someone else in exchange for a legitimate big man.
Poppovich recently said "The time will come when we must trade a star for a star"
That time has arrived.
The Spurs = Not your granddaddies 7th seed !
I agree that a big is the key here, but who are the Spurs going to be able to trade for? Look who’s out there as a “legit” big. The handful of guys that are truly good are not going to be up for trade. I think Splitter has a higher ceiling than all of the guys that the Spurs could possibly get. Will he pan out? I don’t know, but unless the Spurs can get an unproven guy that pans out from a trade or the draft, I don’t see where they’re going to get this legit big to help dominate from.
already have gay runors
http://projectspurs.com/2010-articles/may/spurs-interested-in-rudy-gay.html#comments
we can’t afford anyone in the free agency(the very high quality ones) even if rj opts out.rudy is more expensive than raja(for rudy with his talent might ask more).and our money might only fit signing splitz and raja a 2-4 mil.and rudy with his ability should earn what rj is earning but if he signs with us, he will just earn around 4 mil and rudy might ask some more money.his already earning 3 mil.
Ginobelieve!---That is Matt Bonner straight down the lane with the dunk,I repeat Matt Bonner down the lane with the dunk!LoL---NBA guy that recaps the games on NBA.com(Spurs-T'Wolves recap)---Manu is the god of basketball-write it down in your list of Greek gods.Zeus says its official---his a fan!
Man I miss the game! Next year I will be playing in the playoffs! Mark my words!
surely if you play for us,or unless the grizz gets another additional upgrade
Ginobelieve!---That is Matt Bonner straight down the lane with the dunk,I repeat Matt Bonner down the lane with the dunk!LoL---NBA guy that recaps the games on NBA.com(Spurs-T'Wolves recap)---Manu is the god of basketball-write it down in your list of Greek gods.Zeus says its official---his a fan!
What’s the difference between a gay runor and a straight one?
Free Tiago Splitter!
by Tim C. on May 13, 2010 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL. I always wanted Kevin Love and Rudy Gay to stay in the same team. The Gay-Love connection would have been something.
by xman130 on May 13, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
oops that’s rumor.LoL.I know somebody will type that.
Ginobelieve!---That is Matt Bonner straight down the lane with the dunk,I repeat Matt Bonner down the lane with the dunk!LoL---NBA guy that recaps the games on NBA.com(Spurs-T'Wolves recap)---Manu is the god of basketball-write it down in your list of Greek gods.Zeus says its official---his a fan!
I would agree if we swap RJ for Rudy but not TP,but trading RJ to Memphis means Rudy+another player…Thabeet?
Ginobelieve!---That is Matt Bonner straight down the lane with the dunk,I repeat Matt Bonner down the lane with the dunk!LoL---NBA guy that recaps the games on NBA.com(Spurs-T'Wolves recap)---Manu is the god of basketball-write it down in your list of Greek gods.Zeus says its official---his a fan!
Here’s something to lighten the mood – off of 48MoH (sorry if it was posted somewhere else, but it’s just funny as hell)
http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/05/12/tim-duncan-jane-austen-book-club/
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.
Great post. It’s a very level headed and informative look at what we have and what we need.
I was just reading Bill Simmons’ latest column and he mentioned 3 types of fans : hopelessly devoted, rationally passionate and irrationally passionate. I think a lot of people would fall under the irrationally passionate group. That’s the Trade TP crowd because he had a down year (never mind that he was hurt). The George Hill bombed in the playoffs so he’s not as good as we thought crowd. And the let’s trade RJ or TP for an All NBA player, but we have no idea who that is or how that will work under the cap crowd.
This post definitely is the rationally passionate and that is nice to read. I think we have a lot of the right pieces and we just need a small fix. But you made the great points that we don’t have a lot of flexibility and can only do certain things. I think getting Splitter and developing the young talent is key. I love Temple and hope he really gets a chance to play. His size and skills could really help us create mismatches, instead of having to adjust to them all the time. Great post!!!
I think we have a lot of the right pieces and we just need a small fix.
This is a hopelessly devoted statement.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
I agree. I don’t think the Spurs need a huge fix (although a defensive minded center is pretty close to one), they have lots of significant smaller holes. In a way, this is much more difficult to fix given their cap situation, since they’ll have to find inexpensive role players who excel in 2-3 areas. One-trick ponies ala Bonner and Bogans won’t kill the team, but won’t improve it either.
My rational passion tells me that we need a new leader. Unfortunately, GOAT PF Duncan is not good enough anymore to be #1 of a championship contender. Manu got close this season, but flamed out in the playoffs as our saviour. Tony has never been our option #1, not even when he got the Finals MVP title.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
Who is that and how are we going to get it? How do you get a new leader? The only way I see that happening is blowing up the team and trading our best players. Even then are we going to get a guaranteed top notch leader? I doubt it.
Of the guys we know, Kevin Durant would be our ideal future leader IMO. There is probably no chance for us of getting him. I think, Dwayne Wade and Dirk Novitsky may work. I don’t know how we could get any of these guys. May be if we could trade Duncan and get him back a-la Big Z in Cleveland. Another way, of course, is to blow out the team and start rebuilding from draft/free agency. None of these is a bullet-proof plan. But the alternative is to be mired in mediocrity for years to come.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
I vote that we stop talking about getting Durant. I’m on board and thrilled with that possibility too, but there is literally zero chance that is ever happening. Less than zero, in fact. It’s not going down folks. It’s a pipe dream, and an implausible one at that. So long as we’re just dreaming we might as well dream of the Green Lantern playing for San Antonio- that’s actually more possible than Durant.
Part of the problem here is that it’s the natural course of things to either suck or be mediocre after a team or era’s high point. In fact, you can only even shrink this window if you’re a large market team with unlimitted pockets. Look at Chicago. Look at LA. Look at Portland, Utah, Golden State, Cleveland, etc. Every team in the league. When your superstar (if you have one) reaches the end of his lifespan as a player and things turn downward, there’s really no way to avoid a several-year-lull without stumbling upon a gem in the draft (ahemUSahem). Being mired in mediocrity or suckitude for years is kinda what you sign up for here. Our difference is that we got 4 trophies out of the ride; most teams get nothing and reach the same place.
That said, I don’t think you blow things up and trade or release your franchise when you get there just to maintain a consistent level of success. Some things are more important than success. Character, loyalty, honor. I have no problem sucking for several years as we retool post-Timmy.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on May 13, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 9 recs
Amen, my fellow Coloradan. One thing we have always appreciated about the Spurs’ organization is loyalty and character. We, as fans, can’t then turn around and start throwing the team/players under the bus. There are 27 other fan bases that wish they’d had the privilege of being us for the past 12 years (I exclude the Lakers and Celtics). We’re complaining because we won 50 games and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs.
Everyone wants to be “realistic” about this team. Well, here’s the true reality. We’ve been blessed as Spurs fans. If you don’t think so, then go talk to a Clippers fan.
You have a great point, but I don’t think you had to get ludicrous and mention signing a comic book character like Green Lantern. Its obvious Iron Man or Robocop would be a much better fit.
The Spurs = Not your granddaddies 7th seed !
Mr. Fantastic. Imagine the D he could put over the entire court, and he could play all 5 positions with his ‘height’.
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.
Mr. Fantastic.
You’ll see him next season… looking to prove something.
...!!
by transgojobot on May 13, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Green Lantern would be so used to being the first or second option, he’d have a hard time adjusting to the role of 4th or 5th option. Oh wait, that’s not Green Lantern I’m thinking of.
Free Tiago Splitter!
Less than zero, in fact.
I never heard about “less than zero chance”. May be you could enlighten me, how this works.
Though in general you made a good point about Durant.
I have no problem sucking for several years as we retool post-Timmy.That’s a good point as well. My problem is that I’d rather see Timmeh with his 5th ring before he is done. You think, he doesn’t deserve it? Of course, to suck is very comforting. You don’t even need to do anything special. You just relax, do your thing, collect your paycheck and drink your wine in the evening. And you’ll just naturally suck. i don’t understand why we even discuss any trades or whatever in this context. Why would we want to bring Splitter or Raja Bell? We may as well suck without those guys and keep Holt’s money.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
Your telling me that Dirk is a better leader at this point than Tim Duncan? Kevin Durant is a nice player, a great scorer, but he’s not a leader, at this point. D-Wade would be nice, but that’s not happening.
As SiMA said, unfortunately the cycle of things is that a team fades a bit after the super-star is finished. There is no way, outside of getting lucky (see: LA getting Gasol and us getting Duncan), to get another super-star stud here even with a trade. The issue that the Spurs have is that they don’t have the quality of supporting cast that our older stars need. That’s a fixable, to a degree, problem.
Your telling me that Dirk is a better leader at this point than Tim Duncan?
I am telling that playing with Timmeh and Manu Dirk would have better chances to get a championship trophy than he has now in Dallas.
There is no way, outside of getting luckyAgreed. But to get lucky you need to look for those kind of opportunities.
The issue that the Spurs have is that they don’t have the quality of supporting cast that our older stars need.I politely disagree. I believe, we are lacking in a star power, and that our supporting cast is more or less OK.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
I don’t agree with your final point. I really think our team lacked the kind of support they usually had in the past. We use to have great three-point shooters, a big man who can efficiently spread the opponent’s defense and a bunch of guys that are mentally tough and provide intensity off the bench.
Last season, people said we lacked star power and an athletic wingman. We traded for RJ to answer those needs. It just did not pan out the way everybody hoped it would.
In Manu, we trust.
by day_late_friend on May 13, 2010 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course, in the end the Suns bench beat us. So I guess you can blame our bench for being no match for Phoenix bench.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
In the end, the Suns team beat us. So I am blaming my twitching eye and my swollen knee.
In Manu, we trust.
by day_late_friend on May 13, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
True, blame whatever you want to at this point. I think I remember J. Terry saying blame it on the rain….
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
But I love the rain, so…
In Manu, we trust.
by day_late_friend on May 13, 2010 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
As someone who has been a Spurs/Cavs fan since Z and Duncan entered the league, the idea that the Spurs should trade Duncan and get him back a la Big Z is absolutely ridiculous. Big Z was the franchise player for a set of teams that were terrible. Equating Z to Duncan is like equating Boozer to Karl Malone.
Duncan deserves to be a Spur for life, no asterisks. He won us four rings. Just calling him GOAT PF doesn’t make it respectful that you’re bandying about trading the heart of the franchise. Cripes.
"Whereas I never went fly like some of the boys." -- Ice
by DocRostov on May 13, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Equating Z to Duncan
I don’t understand what you are talking about. I never said Big Z and TD were similar players or played the same role in the history of the game. But they both got drafted, does it mean “equating” in your book? They both got drafted, and they both can be traded, it has nothing to do with disrespect. I am just looking for ways for Timmeh to get his 5th ring.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
Heck, I’d rather be hopelessly devoted to this team than throw around ridiculous statements like we should get Kevin Durant or Dwayne Wade. Those suggestions do no good and do nothing but cause unrealistic thoughts. I’m devoted to this team and organization. Trading Duncan would be ridiculous and makes no sense. Duncan will retire a Spur and he should. That’s what makes the Spurs such a good organization. Loyalty and doing things the right way. Are they always going to win? No. But my loyalty isn’t going to change. If you would rather see a team with a younger leader or an owner who is willing to always spend without any rationale, then go cheer for the Cavs or Mavs or Lakers.
If you prefer to see this team sucking instead of looking for ways to improve it, this is up to you, though I don’t quite understand why it should be called “loyalty” or “devotion”.
then go cheer for the Cavs or Mavs or Lakers.I believe I can figure out on my own who I’d like to cheer for. I don’t really appreciate the tone of your comment.
Next season doesn't exist. Only today exists. So say we all.
Okay, you’re right. Let’s trade Duncan. He’s too old anyway and can barely jump.
In Manu, we trust.
by day_late_friend on May 13, 2010 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m not sure why me saying we need a smaller fix equates to me saying this team is going to suck. I guess I’m unclear on your definition of “sucking.” I just don’t feel that this team needs to make huge wholesale changes. Or more realistically, that this team CAN make huge changes. The idea that we could get another superstar is great, but realistically, it can’t happen. So I’d rather focus on things we can fix and have happen, then just saying we need this huge change that only Lebron, Kobe, and Durant can bring.
That’s fine you didn’t like the tone of my comment. I just took offense to you calling me “hopelessly devoted”, like I’m some 3 year old who is unable to comprehend the complex ideas that you are telling everyone. And I’m just holding onto hope like there are unicorns in the world or Santa Claus is real.
If you prefer to see this team sucking instead of looking for ways to improve it,
Everything you, I or anyone else posts on this site has zero (less than zero?) impact on whether the team sucks or improves.
by doggydogworld on May 14, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Unless the Spurs actually read this stuff…
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
Some probably do……………………….. when they need a laugh
by doggydogworld on May 14, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Parker re-iterated that he wants to stay in S.A. :
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5186053
I hope they keep him, he’s the solution they need to combat LA/PHX and such as a weapon the other side has no absolute answer for. I’m on the boat for Splitter, and at least waiting till the trade deadline for Jefferson (more desperate teams then, better quality in return?) because that would give him another 1/2 year and a full offseason to get acclimated more to SA’s defense and finding a niche. What I would love to see is Splitter starting next to Duncan and have McDyess and Blair come out with the 2nd unit that is lead by Manu. That bench would be ridiculous.
Starting 5 : Timmy, Splitter, Jefferson, Tony, Hill – he deserves it.
Bench :
Manu, McDyess, Blair, Rocket (resign him), Temple (did play pretty good in those limited games, even against PHX), Hairston, and whoever they switch out Mason for. McDyess and Blair could grab the boards, Rocket and insert x shooter here for spacing, Ginobili for point, Temple for SG.
Yes/No?
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.
No one mentioned what will really happen: The spurs will fill the rosters with a couple of guys we never expected. Did anyone expect the spurs to get Mason, bogans, Ratliff, etc etc? Of course not. Expect the unexpected.
Pop and RC will find shooters, it could be Eddie House, it could be a russian kid who plays for a second division team. You never know.
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
Kyle Korver is an UFA. Not sure what his D is like though
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
His D stinks, but he’s a great gunner. The question becomes how can we afford a Korver or Mike Miller type? I doubt either would sign for the BAE, which was $2 Million this year.
Between the two, who do you prefer? Korver is earning less than Miller but Utah might want to resign him.
In Manu, we trust.
by day_late_friend on May 13, 2010 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I’d take Miller. More bbiq, better passing, similar shooting.
You are only young once, but you can be immature for a lifetime
by the little o on May 13, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Terribly injury prone though
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
so we’ll take him?
You are only young once, but you can be immature for a lifetime
by the little o on May 13, 2010 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Guard/Forward with a 77% career FT shooting? If only he’ll sign for the BAE.
In Manu, we trust.
by day_late_friend on May 13, 2010 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
He’s liable to sign for the minimum after that Washington bust. He might be eager to get to a team where he wouldn’t have to deal with the drama
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
We would offer the minimum but there might just be a team that would present a bigger sum on the table. But let’s give it a shot and see how it’d turn out.
In Manu, we trust.
by day_late_friend on May 13, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
He didn’t really bust in Washington. He was on my fantasy team in the latter half of the season. Gave me some amazing numbers. Pretty damn gun-shy though for a shooter. He’d take so few shots, but make a good percentage. Nice rebounding and assists too!
Not sure how those fantasy stats translate on the court. I don’t watch Wizards games coz it’s painful to watch.
http://www.peninsulaismightier.com/2010/5/10/1466174/raja-bell-miami-is-my-first-choice
if we can’t get bell,who is the best defensive stopper that can shoot threes that we can get?
barnes will surely re-sign with orlando.Miami team might be scary next year they got bell,wade and JoeJ.
Ginobelieve!---That is Matt Bonner straight down the lane with the dunk,I repeat Matt Bonner down the lane with the dunk!LoL---NBA guy that recaps the games on NBA.com(Spurs-T'Wolves recap)---Manu is the god of basketball-write it down in your list of Greek gods.Zeus says its official---his a fan!
I think he’s done
"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobili
so is still there a need of signing a sf/sg even if for example we drafted a good sf and turn out to be good in the summer league(let’s say rj doesn’t opt out.)so do we sign another sf/sg (giving we still have hairston)or another position instead.How about if rj opts out,who do we sign?
Ginobelieve!---That is Matt Bonner straight down the lane with the dunk,I repeat Matt Bonner down the lane with the dunk!LoL---NBA guy that recaps the games on NBA.com(Spurs-T'Wolves recap)---Manu is the god of basketball-write it down in your list of Greek gods.Zeus says its official---his a fan!
can we please sign kyle korver!!!!! pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaassssseeeee
by GodsLoveSpursGlory on May 14, 2010 2:12 PM CDT reply actions
Do we have Jefferson’s Bird rights? I read an article on hoopsworld.com that suggested we do and could use them to issue a sign and trade, even if he opts out of his contract. Ideas?
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
Well there’s a possibility that hadn’t crossed my mind. Interesting. I still heart Childress, and think RJ would fit pretty well in Atlanta… let’s make it happen.
Free Tiago Splitter!
What the SPURS need to do to WIN....
I really think that they have to let go of RJ he doesn’t fit the system… They have to trade him for a Posey or a Battier… they need shooters who is a lockdown defender. if they cannot trade him for those two they have to trade him for a future pick to have some Cap space… there are some interesting free agents like john salmons and scola, they will only cost about 7M each…. we can also add an eddie house so that we can have a 3 pt. specialist or a linas kleiza…without Rj we can save 15M to spend for free agents, its like trading 1 expensive player for 2 less expensive who is both effective… the spurs need shooters to ease up the painted area so that duncan, manu, and tony can attack the paint… the 2nd step is to get splitter and the next is to draft the best shooter who can also defend ( bigmen or guards as long as he can shoot 3’s)
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