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Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

Small ball again! Why Pop Why?

Let me state a disclaimer before beginning: I am not a basketball guru by any stretch of the imagination - never played on a team, never coached a team. I can't break down player efficiency and chart shots the way magicians like Wayne do. But, I do have a keyboard and the ability to post so what the hell.

Let’s setup a hypothetical situation. Suppose you are the coach for the men's basketball team at a small university. You are playing for the conference championship against the flagship of your conference - UD (University of Dukentucarolina). Top recruits flock to UD every year, so they have a pretty good team all around, but their pride and joy is the frontline: a HUGE sophomore center called Shaquille O Neil, with some foreign student called Dirk Noweetski  (or something like that) playing next to him, and a backup called Dwight Howard sitting on the bench waiting for his minutes.

What is the game plan?

Star-divide

What a dumb question. You obviously do what coaches have done time and time again - inspire your own center and PF by making them watch Rocky over and over again, then they play lights out and just dominate Shaq and Dirk. The problem is that the identical plan did not work the last time - they destroyed you. Of course you had had tried recruiting the best and tallest frontline players, but they all went to UD instead.

Stepping away from the hypothetical situation for a second, I remember watching a North Carolina State vs. Georgia Tech game when I was in college. The Georgia Tech yellowjackets had this incredible 6'9" forward called Tom Hammonds along with some great guards. The late Jimmy Valvano was coaching the NCSU wolfpack at the time, and knew that nobody in his frontline could match up with Hammonds - Hammonds would just abuse them. The rest of the Yellowjacket team was pretty good so Valvano could not just tell everyone to just collapse on Hammonds. What to do?

Valvano, as he often did, thought completely outside the box. He had point guard Chris Corchiani (all six feet 0 inches of him) guard Hammonds, with some help from the bigs of course, but Corchiani was the primary defender. The result was a brilliant game - Corchiani was an absolute pest against Hammonds with his sharp instincts and quick hands. Corchiani would do everything he could to stop the ball from getting to Hammonds, and Hammonds absolutely could not put the ball on the floor or it was gone. Just before Corchiani started guarding him, Hammonds scored five points in four minutes. After Corchiani was set loose on defense - Hammonds only managed four points the rest of the game and State won the game 82-68. Corchiani was not the only reason, of course, Valvano employed a bunch of totally unorthodox defensive moves and totally frustrated the Yellowjackets, but the biggest win was holding Hammonds to 9 points.

Was the crazy game plan guaranteed to work? Of course not! If Hammonds would not have been slowed down by this unorthodox approach the wolfpack would have lost big and Valvano would have looked like a total idiot. However, they were not going to win with a conventional matchup anyway, and Coach V. was willing to risk ridicule for a chance at a win.

Actually, never mind the hypothetical coaching situation discussed earlier and let's stay with reality. Timmeh cannot win a championship by himself. He is still incredible but is 33 and cannot hold up the franchise on his shoulders like Atlas all by himself. In the offseason we could have gotten a couple of tall decent young guys, but who could we get that can challenge Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and a healthy Andrew Bynum? Dwight Howard? Orlando is not letting him go. Shaq? Too expensive, and also he does not solve the problem (imho). Let's face it - nobody was out there that could beat the Lakers’ frontline, and even if they were out there what were the chances we could get them? Hell, we couldn't even get washed up old Rasheed Wallace or Vince Carter to come here. Unlike the Lakers, or Cuban, or the Yankees (oops, wrong sport, I mean the Knicks), the Spurs do not have the riches to simply outspend the rest and get the best traditional lineup possible.

So if we cannot match up with them, why not try to think out of the box and create mismatches of our choosing? Get Jefferson - an athletic slasher that could cause havoc and create his own shot. Dice and Theo would give us the token frontline, but we would not depend on them heavily. Manu, Tony, Hill can be stars at the 1 and 2 spots. Duncan would still anchor the middle of course, but the bulk of the game switches away from the paint. Blair was an unplanned gift from holy FSM, but that was just icing. Risky, yes. But the alternative was to get some innocent young big that would just get abused by the decent centers out there.

Sadly, the gamble has not paid off. Maybe because RJ did not pan out as hoped. Maybe because Tony has been a little off all season. Maybe because the FO did not make the right moves for the game plan. Maybe it was coaching. Or imperfect chemistry. Or some combination of all these things. But I applaud the Spurs for at least trying to do something, as the path that most front offices (and all of us armchair GMs) would have taken would definitely not have been enough.

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Pretty good. Pop alluded to what yer saying above in his this weeks mailbox.

Why the plan has not gained momentum so far?

- Manu and Timmy came into the season out of shape(Timmeh not so much). Manu has taken more than half the season to gain confidence and make his muscles remember his game.

- Tony started fast and then slowed down, naturally due to constant play since last season.

- Rage came in, but with no big 3 dominance, everyone looked to him to save the day and lets just say, thats not what he is cut out for, clearly. Back in NJ days, K-Mart used to be the bully.

- Dyess has taken half a season to get into his groove. Apparently thats his norm. Plus he is still training his reflexes to prepare for a Manu pass.

- Even without Big 3 dominance, increased “corporate knowledge” or vet savvy or team chemistry is supposed to compensate for some of that, but with all the new ppl, we have to build it back. Today Phil was on record talking about Lakers playing “good” but still needing that familiarity with each other or chemistry to take their game to the next level in terms of instinctual knowledge of what the other guy is gonna do. Like Manu and Blair nowadays.

But, we are spoiled rotten. Plus, Rage sucks. And Tony hasn’t dominated Fisher, clearly.

by LionZion on Mar 4, 2010 4:27 PM CST reply actions  

Good points, LZ.

Nice ending, too,.

Rest the Croissant!

by J.R. Wilco on Mar 5, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

All great points. And we are really spoiled rotten, probably even more by our golden memories than reality. Anything less than perfection is just not adequate any more.

by swgeek on Mar 5, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Well written and makes an interesting point which I think is important interms of our journey towards understanding Pop and his inner workings.

by Heman on Mar 4, 2010 6:24 PM CST reply actions  

I am sorry but I didn’t see Pop tried to incorporate Ratliff and Haislip which made me wonder why he took them in and what was the plan for this season because I thought we’re gunning for a championship but as it turned out this was shaping up to be an experimental season which the Spurs can’t afford since Duncan only has a few good years of basketball left in him. Again this season, Duncan has been our main guy protecting the paint which decreases his years even more.

by 21td on Mar 4, 2010 7:10 PM CST reply actions  

Did you watch Ratliff the few times he played? Did you see him do much else other than the jumping jack thing? Did he rotate right, position himself cleverly, do things very efficiently?

What do you think will happen to Ratliff when Gasol posts up and does his umpteen headfakes and ball fakes, even if Ratliff rotates to cut him off or go for the block(most likely)?

In my opinion, Ratliff would have made minimal impact against the Lakers.

by LionZion on Mar 4, 2010 7:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Umpteen, one if my favorite words. O yea and Theo was not going to have as much of an impact as Dice will

"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich

by bj1der on Mar 4, 2010 8:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I watched every Spurs game and yes I watched Ratliff. And if you do too, you’d realize that we have no shot blocking intimidation. With the few minutes that Ratliff played, did he not bring that plus the toughness when he got a flagrant in one game, that’s intimidation. Granted he would not have made a difference with the lakers, he sure could have decrease TD’s workload inside including fouls which is important in late game defensive plays. And again the intimidation, he’s not afraid to give up hard fouls. And rotation is part of being on the court and it can be taught, but height, athleticism and desire is within the man.

by 21td on Mar 6, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Ratliff did bring shot blocking. Intimidation is sort of a no factor against Denver, Dallas or LA. Carmelo, Kobe will chew out Ratliff in his this older diminished incarnation. Dirk will not be stopped by anyone other than his own head.

As far another big body in there, sure. It could be anybody though. Doesn’t have to be just Ratliff.

by LionZion on Mar 6, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Ya, I did not agree with the Theo trade. Not sure if Theo requested or if really was just a straight salary dump. He was never going be our saviour, but anyone that can give Duncan a few more minutes rest would be welcome.

by swgeek on Mar 6, 2010 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

  21td…it is indeed baffling that Pop and company would invest so much time waiting for Ian to come around. They developed him for so damn long that youd think he would at least be a spot coverage player ( and maybe even a full on backup center ) rather then completely ignored and buried on the bench.

  I am not of the " Play Ian more, godamn you Pop ! " camp. I havent seen enough of his play to form an opinion. But shit, our FO should have known he was not going to pan out. Sure its not like we are paying him 14 million a season, but they just invested so much time ( and got fans like me all excited )

...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.

by alamobro on Mar 5, 2010 2:48 AM CST up reply actions  

  Ya know, just to be fair, I could totally see Ian and Hairston getting meaningful minutes next season when Pop feels they have learned enough about the NBA game.

...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.

by alamobro on Mar 5, 2010 2:52 AM CST up reply actions  

In his defense he was injured for like two seasons and never really got a chance.

"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich

by bj1der on Mar 5, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Who is Ian going to take minutes from? Bonner, although not an all star, is an established role player.

Blair is the best rookie big in the league

Dyess does exactly what we need him to do.

Basically, there just hasnt been room for Ian yet. Remember, he’s only like 22. He still has plenty of time. I hope they re-sign him for cheap next year and let him play. His pick and roll D is pretty solid.

LOL!!!
-Dejuan Blair

by SpursfanSteve on Mar 6, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Mahinmi is a nice project but I don’t know if the Spurs are putting enough effort to develop him. With the few minutes he’s played, I noticed his awkwardness, his balance and coordination were off and so was his anticipation. He’s young,athletic but he sure needs more coaching and training and he should also put in the effort and show that he belongs. Bynum was in the same situation before lakers put Jabbar one on one with him. I maybe wrong but it’s my opinion. Hairston can play he just needs some playing time and I hope he gets it.

by 21td on Mar 7, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Sadly, the gamble has not paid off.

If all this mess’s goal was to win against the Lakers, then we don’t know yet. We still may get to the 8th spot, and play against them. So far we are 1-1 against them, and we had a decent game and a bad game. They were not in their full strength for any of these games, so they were of not much consequence. If we meet the Lakers in the playoffs, we’ll know how the gamble turned out.

I would question the wisdom of playing 82 games with the lineup constructed to win against a particular team. The Lakers are not the only game in town, and we didn’t even had a chance to get beaten by them last year. On the other hand, it may explain, why we are so close to the 8th spot this year – it may be our best chance to meet the Lakers and see, whether “the gamble” worked. Kind of to ape the Warriors when they took on the mighty Dallas team.

The thing which I still do not understand with all this line of reasoning, is why to play RJ at 4. We are very thin at 3, and RJ is playing his best at that position. Why we need to push him to 4? We have enough undersized players, who we can plug in for a small ball. Blair is short, Bonner is perimeter-oriented, Bogans can suck at every position he is playing. If you want to create a mismatch, I’d play Bogans/Blair against Bynum and leave RJ at 3.

by Kondor on Mar 4, 2010 7:37 PM CST reply actions  

I forgot to mention Hairston – he is evidently another 4/5 option for the small ball.

by Kondor on Mar 4, 2010 7:38 PM CST up reply actions  

When the other team has the mismatch, RJ can guard the stretch four.

by LionZion on Mar 4, 2010 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Gotcha, thanks. Assuming he gets better at D, but we need that no matter what lineup we use.

by swgeek on Mar 4, 2010 7:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure if it was just about the lakers, just a recognition that we could not get a frontline pair that competes with a good to great frontline in general.
I agree that RJ at the 4 is a terrible idea, but there has to be a reason for it. We may not agree with that reason, but things are never truly random.

by swgeek on Mar 4, 2010 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Recc’ed to the 37th pick, swgeek. As much as we’ve discussed “small ball” this year on PtR, I’ve never heard a viewpoint like this. It’s extremely well-reasoned, yet totally outside of the box. Thanks for sharing.

by CapHill on Mar 4, 2010 8:04 PM CST reply actions  

And thanks for coming up with

UD (University of Dukentucarolina)

I will be using this over the next month, as I root against those teams.

by CapHill on Mar 4, 2010 8:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Niiice, swgeek. I knew you’d kick ass writing. And you do. Major ass. Recced.

That said, if Pop plays the Blair/RJ frontcourt again, I’m going to die.

I smell death... everywhere.

by LatinD on Mar 4, 2010 8:17 PM CST reply actions  

Bonner, RJ, Bogans, Manu, Hill. I think that’s what we saw in LA for a while during the third quarter.
Hill and Bonners two man game wouldn’t have worked in the WNBA that night.

"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo

by Manuwar on Mar 4, 2010 9:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Small ball would be over if Ian finally woke up

"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich

by bj1der on Mar 4, 2010 8:31 PM CST reply actions  

A few things:

I applaud the Spurs for at least trying to do something, as the path that most front offices (and all of us armchair GMs) would have taken would definitely not have been enough

I like looking at it this way; I hadn’t. And small ball certainly can work for spurts (just like in hte NCSU game you cited) but over the course of a series the strategy will fail.

Timmeh cannot win a championship by himself. He is still incredible but is 33

Timmy is 34. Just ask LatinD.

I am not a basketball guru by any stretch of the imagination

Probably the biggest lie you’ve ever told.

inspire your own center and PF by making them watch Rocky over and over again

This is what Blair must do every night before game time.

"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo

by Manuwar on Mar 4, 2010 9:38 PM CST reply actions  

I must step in here and suggest that Blair doesn’t need to watch Rocky to get pumped. All that’s required for DeBeast is a quick two minutes and forty-nine seconds of musical adrenaline.

Rest the Croissant!

by J.R. Wilco on Mar 5, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Well now I’m pumped up.

"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo

by Manuwar on Mar 5, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Very quotable. Love it.

Spurs Basketball. Improving [other] NBA teams since 2010! - swgeek

by Tim C. on Mar 5, 2010 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

excellent.

LOL!!!
-Dejuan Blair

by SpursfanSteve on Mar 6, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

So would Chuck Norris

by Gino20 on Mar 8, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

And small ball certainly can work for spurts (just like in hte NCSU game you cited) but over the course of a series the strategy will fail.<\blockquote>

Agreed- True gimmicky smallball would fail over a series, but a shift of emphasis from the bigs to the smalls would work. The tiny-ball lineups may have been just to see how things work rather than settle on the final lineup.

by swgeek on Mar 6, 2010 5:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I enjoyed this sw, and I’m glad you’re posting/commenting more often. Well done.

By the way, have you read Malcolm Gladwell’s New York Times article Lauri put up last year? This kind of reminds me of that.

by silverandblack_davis on Mar 4, 2010 11:55 PM CST reply actions  

Thanks, I will look for that article. Though I should probably spend a little less time on PtR and a little more time on my work, otherwise I may not have to worry about the whole work thing any more.

by swgeek on Mar 5, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks guys. That does look like a good read. I just glanced through it for now as am at work, but will read it later.

by swgeek on Mar 5, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I saw evidence of Pop's small ball on NBA TV!

I saw glimpses of this so-called small ball on a replay of our 2006 Playoff encounter versus the Sacramento Kings in the first round. And you know what? We won that series but, ultimately, lost the next series to the Mavericks. What I did NOT find evidence of, however, was if we went small against the Mavs. If so, then we can come to the conclusion that small ball won’t win us a championship because it didn’t back then.

Now, back to that Spurs-Kings matchup in ‘06: we put a lineup of Tony, Manu, Bowen, Finley, and Duncan against Bibby, K. Martin, Bonzi Wells, Kenny Thomas, and Abdur-Rahim. Now, how we won that game is beyond me because we had Mohammad and Oberto on the bench, and around that time they weren’t exactly bad players. So why Pop has become enamored with small ball is evident when small ball is functional and working. In the Game 2 against the Kings, Finley was the power forward and was occasionally replaced by Brent Barry. They were crucial at knocking down the 3 and I feel that during this present year, we can ONLY have a small ball lineup if we can consistently make the 3 point shot from that position to keep Duncan’s defenders honest. Jefferson CAN be that power forward, but he hasn’t really carved out his niche as a situational 3 point shooter. His versatility, however, is vastly needed in this small ball scheme as he can outpace the power forwards of this league like he did to Robin Lopez a few nights ago. But I think we have valid power forwards right now (Blair, McDyess) that we shouldn’t really need small ball. Or it should be for situational purposes only.

by ZeusVizzle on Mar 5, 2010 3:47 PM CST reply actions  

Jefferson CAN be that power forward, but …

No, he cannot, as we all have seen during the many dismal performances this season.
I want to hope, that RJ can be both a good, aggressive slasher at 3, and reasonably good defender at this position. We saw some glimpses of that, I believe. To me at least, the lesson from this season is that you should not play RJ out of position. Whatever matchups you’d like to exploit, just play the guy at 3 or leave him on the bench. If you want a big 3 point shooter, play Bonner, that’s why you have him on the team.

by Kondor on Mar 5, 2010 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed, at least this year. I think one of the mistakes Pop made was asking too much of RJ right away and totally shattering his confidence. Or maybe that works out for the best – if RJ had played decent but not great maybe he would not have been as receptive to certain types of coaching.
Pop historically has provided coaching and environment to allow players to realize their potential, but it usually takes more than one year (Timmeh, Manu, TP, Hill etc). Hopefully RJ will blossom next year.

by swgeek on Mar 5, 2010 5:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I think one of the mistakes Pop made was asking too much of RJ right away

Exactly. Of course, one may make a point that Pop needed to understand, what RJ was capable of sooner rather than later (playing him whole season at 3 and then trying to plug him at 4 during the playoffs would arguably be the worse strategy). Still, I hope for not seeing RJ at 4 anymore, and I hope to see him blossom at 3.

Or maybe that works out for the best – if RJ had played decent but not great maybe he would not have been as receptive to certain types of coaching.

This is a very good point. With his enormous contract, RJ may have become a prima donna. Now he has something to prove, and it may be good for the team, if he plays with a chip on his shoulder.

I am not very optimistic about next year though. I think, this team only goes as far, as Tim and Manu can take it, and both are aging. I still hope for the fairy-tale ending of this season, but if we are in for another first-round exit, then I’d expect several long seasons before we could hope for the rebuilding. Unless we could somehow lure Durant out of Oklahoma.

by Kondor on Mar 5, 2010 5:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I think this can be solved rather easily: Play Manu at the 4. RJ isnt that much bigger than Manu and Manu is already a pesky defender for quick guards- he would do well against Odom as long as when Odom posted he got help D. So, basically, leave RJ at the 3 and play Parker/Hill/RJ/Manu/Duncan if you want to play small. Or hell, put Bonner in there instead of Duncan.

Something we are all forgetting, though, is that TD won that 3 point shooting contest at the beginning of the year in practice. I’m still waiting for him to become our stretch player. He can do it. Just wait…

LOL!!!
-Dejuan Blair

by SpursfanSteve on Mar 6, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

TD won that 3 point shooting contest at the beginning of the year in practice. I’m still waiting for him to become our stretch player.

I thought, we were going to trade him.

by Kondor on Mar 6, 2010 5:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Trade deadline’s come and gone.

We’d have to waive him, like we did Finley.

Rest the Croissant!

by J.R. Wilco on Mar 6, 2010 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, if we cannot trade him like Theo, we should waive him like Fin. I like it. Waiving is the new trading.

by Kondor on Mar 7, 2010 12:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I’m so glad we see eye to eye on this.

Rest the Croissant!

by J.R. Wilco on Mar 7, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Still, we should start rebuilding around Durant. I hope you understand it.

We should start rebuilding around Durant

by Kondor on Mar 7, 2010 11:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I read you five by five.

Rest the Croissant!

by J.R. Wilco on Mar 8, 2010 12:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Good catch. I wasn’t watching Spurs games back then, so cannot comment on similarities or differences. We do have Blair and Dice, but lack another good tall man, so if Timmeh and Dice both go to the bench we are stuck with small ball. Love Blair, but having him as our main big is small ball. Note that I don’t really count Bonner as a big despite his height, he is truly one of a kind :-)

by swgeek on Mar 5, 2010 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

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