Remaking the Spurs, Part 1: Center
by Tim C. on Mar 14, 2010 6:39 AM CST
in Analysis
75 comments
Recently, we had a poll on the front page asking which position the Spurs should concentrate on upgrading in the offseason. The results were pretty clear: most fans think the Spurs are most lacking at the Center position. With that in mind, the first article in this series will concentrate on what kind of options the team might have to fill that hole at center this summer. Even more recent was a great post by Fred on how the Spurs lack size on the interior. With that fresh in our minds, let's dive right in and see what's out there.
Background Info
The Spurs have a few different paths they can take during the upcoming offseason, but we're concentrating on just one. That path is best described as "all in" trying to win a championship next year. If the Spurs choose a different path(cutting salary, demolition and rebuild), then all this will be moot.
Also, I place a premium on defense, so I will sing the praises of guys who can lock down the paint.
Salary Comparison
It's important to reveal sources here, and ShamSports is regularly updated with contract information, so that's where all of our dollar figures and contract info comes from. With that in mind, here's a chart showing all the current starting centers in the league, and what kind of money they make.
Huge props to LasEspuelas for putting this chart together.
| Team | Starting Center | 2009-10 Salary |
| Hawks | Al Horford | $4,307,640 |
| Celtics | Kendrick Perkins | $4,750,000 |
| Bobcats | Theo Ratliff (ouch) | $825,497 |
| Bulls | Brad Miller | $12,250,000 |
| Cavaliers | Shaquille O'Neal | $21,000,000 |
| Mavericks | Brendan Haywood | $6,000,000 |
| Nuggets | Nene | $10,520,000 |
| Pistons | Ben Wallace | $825,497 |
| Warriors | Rony Turiaf | $4,140,000 |
| Rockets | Chuck Hayes | $2,147,750 |
| Pacers | Roy Hibbert | $1,575,360 |
| Clippers | Chris Kaman | $10,400,000 |
| Lakers | Andrew Bynum | $12,500,000 |
| Grizzlies | Marc Gasol | $3,333,333 |
| Heat | Jermaine O'Neal | $23,016,000 |
| Bucks | Andrew Bogut | $10,000,000 |
| Timberwolves | Al Jefferson | $12,000,000 |
| Nets | Brook Lopez | $2,255,880 |
| Hornets | Emeka Okafor | $10,797,500 |
| Knicks | David Lee | $7,000,000 |
| Thunder | Nenad Krstic | $5,160,832 |
| Magic | Dwight Howard | $15,202,590 |
| 76ers | Samuel Dalembert | $12,025,694 |
| Suns | Robin Lopez | $1,745,520 |
| Trail Blazers | Marcus Camby | $9,150,000 |
| Kings | Spencer Hawes | $2,332,800 |
| Spurs | Antonio McDyess | $4,500,000 |
| Raptors | Andrea Bargnani | $6,527,491 |
| Jazz | Mehmet Okur | $9,000,000 |
| Wizards | JaVale McGee | $1,496,640 |
| Average | $7,559,534 | |
| Maximum | $23,016,000 | |
| Minimum | $825,497 |
Tiago Splitter
Mr. Splitter's situation needs to be addressed first, because he should be the first option on the table. Let's see... a legit 7-footer with good skills on both ends of the court. Does anyone here think that a player matching that description might be able to help the Spurs? That's what I thought.
via nimg.sulekha.com
Hey look! A guy who likes celebrating championships!
Earlier in the current ACB season, Tiago's numbers were down, and he appeared to be struggling. However, he has since come roaring back with better stats than ever, as you can see at his DraftExpress page.
If I'm RC Buford, Tiago is my primary target with the mid-level exception. Apparently, the Spurs are going to have competition from Real Madrid of the ACB league, so it's unclear whether the MLE will be enough, but I would think it's worth it to give Splitter the full MLE if neccessary. I'm hoping that the Spurs have been keeping in touch with Tiago and his agent about their plans for next season. Madrid holds an overall financial advantage, due to the fact that they aren't afraid to spend money(their owner has an almost Mark Cuban-like reputation for spending). Also, the Spurs' lackluster season(so far) might be an inhibiting factor to his move across the pond. He's said before that he wants to play on teams that compete for championships, and our Spurs don't look like one of those this season.
But the Spurs actually have a couple of advantages over Madrid in the Tiago sweepstakes, despite the fact that Madrid can offer him more money. For starters, this offseason is absolutely Tiago's best shot at fulfilling his NBA aspirations - the Spurs have the MLE, he has a lower buyout option in his contract, and at 25, he's still young enough for most NBA teams to be interested. The second advantage has to do with the way Tiago's current contract with Baskonia(Caja Laboral) is structered: The lower buyout only applies to NBA teams, so if Madrid is going to outbid us, they're also going to spend a lot more on his buyout, because Caja doesn't want to give him up to a European rival, especially one in their own league(ACB).
Here's my worst-case scenario: If Tiago wants more money than we can offer, we can flip his rights to a team with cap space for something useful. It's a win-win situation - Tiago makes it to the league and gets paid, while the Spurs still have their MLE to spend elsewhere. I hear Sam Presti's Thunder team has cap space and could use a big man... [Splitter's rights and a newly re-signed Bonner for a newly re-signed Thabo Sefolosha and one of OKC's two first-round picks, anyone? It's way better than the nothing we got for Scola.]
Free Agency & Trades
via www.all-nba-all-basketball.com
The Spurs are far more likely to find a good big man through free agency than by trading anyone they already have. On top of that, big trades can sometimes make matters worse than if you're simply adding a piece(see: Jefferson, Richard). But, here comes a list that includes both possibilities. Some of these are pretty unlikely, but stranger things have happened.
Marcus Camby - Portland's newly-acquired center will have a tough choice this offseason. With Oden and Przybilla likely to be back for the Blazers, he could probably get a lot more playing time if he goes elsewhere. While I've called him overrated in the past, Camby has improved his man defense significantly in the past two years, but it's gone virtually unnoticed since he played for the Clippers. He's always been a terrific help defender and shot-blocker, as well as still being one of the best rebounders in the league. He doesn't do much on offense, but he wouldn't need to in San Antonio. He might just be a prime target for the front office using the MLE. But, while we're talking about the Blazers...
Joel Przybilla - Przy has an early termination option, but if he chooses not to excercise it, he'll be due $7.4 million next year. He isn't likely to opt out, but we could still try trading for him if we offer the Blazers something they don't already have. Like, say, a big who can shoot the 3-ball incredibly well.
Brendan Haywood - If Splitter doesn't come over, or if we trade him away, Haywood becomes my primary target in free agency. However, the MLE is unlikely to be enough for one of the best centers in the West. I haven't seen any projections for what he's likely to make with his next contract, but I doubt he'll have to settle for MLE money.
Tyrus Thomas - Most of the chatter regarding the Spurs trade-deadline ambitions earlier this month had to do with Thomas, who is a very intriguing player. Mr. Thomas has a qualifying offer for next season of just over $6M. He'll probably take it, but trading for him wouldn't be out of the question. Who knows what MJ wants for the future of the Bobcats, now that he's in charge? RC should probably at least make the call.
Ian Mahinmi - Oh yes, I did. If Ian shows any improvement by the end of this season, it would behoove the Spurs to retain him. Because somewhere, while watching film of a 7-footer running the floor like a gazelle, Don Nelson is salivating.
Erick Dampier - Yeah, yeah... I know. Why would we ever do this? Because you can't teach size.
Luis Scola - Guess who's a [restricted] free agent? Luis has a qualifying offer of around $4M, but deserves more money than that. Too bad Houston is likely to match anything we're able to throw his way. Plus, trying to sign him would be like our FO admiting they were wrong - fat chance of that.
Etan Thomas - Not really an impressive player, so... only if he'll play for the BAE or less.
Kyrylo Fesenko - "I must break you".
Nazr "manos piedras" Mohammed - I still like Nazr, but I'm not sure he's good enough to be Timmeh's primary running mate.
Brad Miller - He'll be a free agent. Not sure if he has anything of value left in him, though.
Shaquille O'Neal - No thank you.
Kwame Brown - I know what you're thinking, but he's a really good defensive big.
Ronny Turiaf - Remember what I said up above about Nellie salivating over Mahinmi? Well, maybe we can convince him that Ian's a better fit in his system than Turiaf.
Troy Murphy - I'm sure the Pacers would love to rid themselves of his salary, but I'll pass on this no-defense shooter... we've had a much cheaper version of him for a few years now in Matt Bonner.
Jeff Foster - This is intriguing, because Foster is from San Antonio, and Pop has always said that he likes what Foster brings. He doesn't seem to belong with Indiana, so he could probably be pried away with relative ease.
Drew Gooden - Been there, done that, not eager to do it again.
Hasheem Thabeet - Did you just spit out your drink? You shouldn't have. The Grizzlies' high-powered offense is no place for a plodding, 7'3" shot-blocking and rebounding specialist with no other discernable skills, but the Spurs could find a place for a skill set like that. He's pretty overpaid, though.
Hamed Haddadi - Read about Thabeet above, and substitute 7'2" for the height, with a much bigger(read: wider) frame. He's a brontosaurus.
Jermaine O'Neal - He's a free agent, but I doubt he'll settle for the MLE. He does still have some good years left in him.
Udonis Haslem - Good option, might be within our price range. Don;t be surprised if the Spurs make a push for this guy.
Primoz Brezec - Euro legend. Not really, but you would have looked it up, wouldn't you?
Darko Milicic - Ummm, no comment.
Oleksiy Pecherov - Who?
Emeka Okafor - The NOOCH are going to want to continue cutting salary, and dumping Okafor is the best way for them to do it.
Francisco Elson - Kill me before bringing him back.
Amar'e Stoudemire - Please, for the love of FSM, no. The only reason this is here is because it's not outlandish to imagine Sarver agreeing to trade Stoudemire away if he takes his player option.
Mehmet Okur - Not sure whether Utah would be willing to give him up to us, but he's basically Pop's wet dream come true. A guy who's tall and can shoot the ball from anywhere, without giving up too much on defense. So, Bonner with better defense.
Fabricio Oberto - Just throwing it out there, but he'd be a great option to have as a 12th man. He's a free agent again this summer.
Timofey Mozgov - This 7'1" 23 year old Russian monster has been putting up great short-minute numbers with one of the premier clubs in the Euroleague, BC Khimki. But he's not the best Euro big man whose rights aren't owned by an NBA team. That honor belongs to...
Yiannis Bouroussis - According to DX, our favorite Greek tease has a comfortable buyout option from Olympiacos. But I vaguely remember him saying that he wanted to spend two more years in Greece last summer(adding that he would love to play for the Spurs when he does cross the pond), so unless he's changed his mind, don't expect to hear any rumblings from Greece this offseason.
One more thing: a Chris Bosh sign-and-trade is an outlandish idea that will never happen, so it's not even worth writing about. Plus he sucks at defense.
The Draft
Positively dreamy.
The chance of landing a good big man in this year's draft is better than you might expect. After last year's draft class was nearly bereft of talented big men(Blair and Griffin being the main exceptions), this year's class has a glut of tall guys with talent. Lots of defensive-minded talent, too. Let's dig in - I'm including guys listed as C's that DX has going after #10 in their mock draft - The Spurs may trade up if they think they can get a good big out of it, especially if Tiago turns them down.
Hassan Whiteside - This kid puts up some crazy numbers, but the ones that glare out at me are the 0.3 assists and 2.0 turnovers per game. Seems like he either doesn't look for his teammates, or sucks at getting them the ball in good situations. Either way, it's a major weakness IMO. Love the 5.5 blocks, though... that's an incredible feat.
Donatas Motiejunas - Seems a bit overrated to me, and most of his weaknesses are related to defense. But, who knows - he's playing in the Italian league.
Epke Udoh - This man belongs in a Spurs uniform. He does everything expected of a Spurs center, and has an incredible ability to lock down the paint even though he's only 6'10".
Solomon Alabi - OK, so I'm unfairly fond of Florida State players. Sue me. But the Spurs could do a lot worse than this. That FSU defense wasn't #1 in the ACC solely on the strength of their great wing defenders - the guy knows how to play good team D.
Miroslav Raduljica - Fierce offensive player in the Adriatic league. If anyone follows Euro ball, I'd love to know if he's any good at defense. He pulled out of the draft last season, but is automatically eligible due to age this season.
Jerome Jordan - Here's a darkhorse candidate, who right now isn't very high in mock drafts(most have him going in the early second round), but he does a lot of things well on defense, while not being a black hole on the other end. DX says that his best case is Theo Ratliff - let's hope that refers to the menace Theo was in his prime, not the shell we saw in silver and black earlier this season.
So that's all I've got. You'll probably want to take that migraine medicine now, and we didn't even mention D-Leaguers. Next time, we'll talk about forwards, and here's a spoiler: what might await in the draft at that position is intriguing.
Discussion
Of course, everyone has an opinion, and there's a whole lot of names up there... so let us know what you think. Leave your comments about what you think the Spurs should do below.
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Good Job
There is one player you didn’t mention that I think would fit well in silver and black and that is Roy Hibbert of the Pacers. He certainly has the size, great footwork while posting up, very young. Admittedly he needs to bulk up a bit in the weight room in order not to be pushed around so much in the paint, but his basic game is very sound. His present salary is still under 2 mil and he is very young. Don’t know what it would take to pry him loose from Indiana, but he could solve a lot of the Spurs present problems around the rim. What say you?
Eh, I knew I would miss somebody. Meant to put him in there somewhere, but forgot. I like his jumper, but I’d like to see some actual post moves out of him before I’m completely sold. But I don’t think they’ll trade him.
Spurs Basketball. Improving [other] NBA teams since 2010! - swgeek
I completely agree. I don’t see Indiana trading Hibbert.
And what about Varnado from Miss. St? I know you put Udoh as a guy the Spurs could use and Jordan as a darkhorse, but Varnado is only an inch shorter, but has a great wingspan. Not to mention that he averages about 7 blocks per adjusted 40 minutes. If all the other big guys are off the board at our pick, why not?
nice post. too busy to digest it all and give a proper opinion outside of the immediate names that jump out like camby, scola, and foster. scola being the long shot of course.
I really don’t think there is a snowballs chance of prying hibbert out of indy or thabeet out of memphis. plus if we are in win now mode, would thabeet help right away???
It was almost like Scola knew you were going to write this. He scored a career-high 44 points and grabbed 12 rebounds last night. (OK so it was vs the Nets but whatever.)
I know it’s been a rough season but I’m surprised that you guys are working on next year so much. The Spurs seem to be playing better to me and the playoffs haven’t even started.
(Btw my favorite option would be moving RJ to the 4 permanently.)
The Lakers "Too big, too strong, too long, too good."
I think the Spurs actually play better when we ignore them :)
by silverandblack_davis on Mar 14, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha that does seem to be the case this year. Just when people start to give up on them they start to play better.
The Lakers "Too big, too strong, too long, too good."
Notice why we stopped making game previews? It’s all part of the plan, really. I just hope they don’t play their way into a first round matchup with the Lakeshow. That should be saved for the conference finals.
by silverandblack_davis on Mar 15, 2010 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Ekpe Udoh Plzzzzzzzzzzzz
AKA: Linix129, sw12
by Sean Wunderlich on Mar 14, 2010 1:15 PM CDT reply actions
how bout this
i have worked up a potential squad based on observations and hopeful thinking on a small part but i believe that its totally workable. first i think that giving ginobili a two year extension would be key to this working out. then let all of the expiring contracts go that way the spurs would have a clear picture of how much to offer splitter which could be from 9 to 10 mill for 5 yrs. that should be enuf to sway him to san antonio. next looking by the way the current team plays, it has become apparent that we have a desperate need for a pass first point guard. with that said george hill has blossomed into just that type of a guard and as we saw against the clippers hill ginobili and jefferson worked pretty good together. after that they should try to make a trade with indiana tj ford and roy hibbert for tony parker and a draft pick as well as trade dice to saremento for narcioni or to houston for battier. lastly make a few key call-ups from the toros and the team will be set. so with that said here is a line up that i managed to come up with…..
starters
pg george hill
sg manu ginobili
sf richard jefferson
pf tiago splitter
c tim duncan
bench
pg tj ford
pg curtis jurells
g/pg/sg malik hariston
g/f alonzo gee
sf/f narcioni or battier
pf dejuan blair
f/c dwayne jones
c roy hibbert
i think that with this roster and the coaching and training staff in san antonio this would be a dangerous team that could compete with anybody in the league. it has a good blend of everything the spurs stand for and alot of what they need to get back atop of nba dominance. so please let me kno what you guys think about it…..
spurs or nothin
Wow a Spurs fan is gonna trade away Tony Parker!
As a Blazer fan I’ll give you Joel Pryzbilla,Andre Miller,Rudy Fernandez& our 1st round pick.
Batumshakalaka!
A lot depends on what happens with Manu, but the Spurs need more big forwards and they do love Batum. I would think if that’s going to happen he’s going to be wanted in that type of trade.
Although it would be neat to get Rudy.
Batum would be a deal breaker for me.
Long term I would rather have Batum than Parker.Nic is just 21, dude is gonna be special.The only reason we trade Rudy is we have Roy & P.T. may become an issue but Nic is going nowhere.
Batumshakalaka!
Yeah really.
Tonight against Toronto Nic had 22 pts. on 6 of 7 shooting. 5 of 6 from 3- 2 rebounds-2 blocks & we don’t call a play for the kid. You can bet next year we will have more plays in the offense for Nic.Also 2 rebounds for Nic is rare he is a good rebounder at the SF position. Oh did I mention excellent passer.
Batumshakalaka!
by We-B-Dunkin on Mar 14, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Pryzbilla ruptured his patella tendon twice
Rudy is awesome, Andre is 35 1st round pick is late. I did not check on trade machine but am guessing it might be close as Rudy is on a cheap rookie contract Dre is about 7 mil Prys about the same. You might have to throw in filler for contracts to match. What does Parker make? Never mind I will check.
Batumshakalaka!
by We-B-Dunkin on Mar 15, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree, if we’re trading Parker, we’ve gotta get more back than TJ Ford and Hibbert. Ford has only played over 55 games in a season 3 times in his 6 year career. And for the money he makes, he’s gotta do more. I’m not sold on trading Parker either. I like Hill, but everybody is going to look good against the Clippers. Watching that lineup play against the Cavs (a better defensive team), shows just how much we struggled without Parker and how the offense was run through Ginobili, not Hill.
I like the idea of playing some of the younger guys (Hairston, maybe even Jones or Cedric Jackson) but the bench you constructed wouldn’t give us much firepower. We’d be younger overall, but I don’t think those moves make us significantly better or allow us to compete with any of the other top teams in the league.
hill did look good against the cavs. but his 23pts and 4 assists were overshadowed by ginobili’s monster game and everybody’s garbage game. hill is a young player and could go for 30 to 33 mins a game so ford would split the backup pg mins with jurells who is a pretty good pg who can run a spurs offense and score. but the point would be getting hibbert and giving them something that they would want bad enuf to part with him. ford would be an expiring contract that could be dumped later. as for scoring off the bench harriston, gee and pretty much the whole bench can score a considerable amount of points. the key to a great bench is having role players to give your starters a break and not give the lead up or allow the other team to increase the lead they have by to much. majority of the bench in the lineup i suggested already know what spur defense is so executing it on a larger level wouldnt be that much of an adjustment for them. hibbert is a natural defender and between tim and the training staff he will be a monster in the paint once they get thru with him. battier and narcioni are vets so they wouldnt have a hard time adjusting to the defensive scheme either. plus you dont want to have a team of scorers because scorers want to play and they want the ball and that would cause chaos in the team chemistry. so in being role players and young ones at that they get to find their niche and by the time they are needed to step up theyre ready.
spurs or nothin
by DuncanAllOverU on Mar 14, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree that Hill has looked good and the centerpiece of a deal would be Hibbert, but you’re putting too much stock in guys who haven’t contributed. Hairston has been in the Spurs system for 3 years and has yet to make an impact. So to say that he, Jerrells, Gee, and anyone else could come in and be a contributor next year would be unrealistic. They might be able to play a few spot minutes here or there, but they couldn’t compete and keep up with anyone else we’d play. I agree that the bench is there to spell the starters, but you have to have some firepower too. All of our weapons would be in the starting lineup.
Not to mention 7 of the 8 guys off the bench would be new to the team. As we’ve heard/seen all season long, the Spurs system is the hardest to learn. And while I don’t agree with people saying Pop doesn’t play rookies or young players, I do believe he’s not having a team that has 7 new guys and 4 D-league call ups.
This team loses in the first round next season, if makes playoffs at all. It is somewhere between 6th and 10th team in the West.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
r u serious! all the lakers have is a first team. and that starting five will go with theirs if splitter is as half as good as he should be. denver wouldnt have the post players to comepete with that starting squad or reserve bigs plus billips wouldnt handle george or ginobili as bad as he owns parker. they would demolish utah houston and would run a pretty good battle with a healthy portland but still edge them out over all in a series. after amare leaves arizona theyre done for and the hornets need alot still to comepete with the spurs now. okc would be the same as portland, spurs in a series. after these teams who would challenge. plus tim woulg get to stay fresh as a daisy cuz of the bigs rotation and the other starters could play 28 to 33 mins per game and not miss a beat….
spurs or nothin
by DuncanAllOverU on Mar 15, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
forgot about the mavs but in a rivalry game you would have your slugouts but im pretty sure splitter is athletic enuf to play good d on dirk. he’s used to guarding 4’s that can spread the floor because they are not that rare in other leagues around the world. so i would still give the sours the edge. im not saying that they would win all 82 games but they would a good amount of games and finish in the top 3 in the west and challenge for the title. plus only get better after a couple of years
spurs or nothin
by DuncanAllOverU on Mar 15, 2010 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
From what I heard Splitter is a decent rotation player in a Spanish league, which is about as strong as NBDL. He is young enough, and have a potential to improve, but so is Mahinmi. Optimistically, I expect Splitter to be somewhere between Mahinmi and Scola, and in his first NBA year I wouldn’t expect him to be any better than Yawn. Why people think that he is ready to start in NBA and play some meaningful minutes is completely beyond me.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
I thought the Spanish ACB was the 2nd-best league after the NBA?
by silverandblack_davis on Mar 16, 2010 2:02 AM CDT up reply actions
May be Spanish champion should play NBDL champion to find out, which league is stronger.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
The guys in the D-League who aren’t also on an NBA roster make peanuts compared to what they could make in most of the European leagues. Even James Gist made about hal a million euros in Italy last year, as compared to a typical D-League salary, which is less than 6 figures.
Spurs Basketball. Improving [other] NBA teams since 2010! - swgeek
This is a valid point, but doesn’t completely define the strength of the competition. Last season Splitter was selected to the second all-Euroleague team. So was Vassilis Spanoulis, who we got from the Rockets for Scola and immediately waived. If we didn’t think that Spanoulis was good enough to ride a pine in San Antonio, why do we think that Splitter is good enough to start?
We should start rebuilding around Durant
Actually, I think Euroleague should be considered #2 in the world. It is probably stronger than NBDL.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
Euroleague is a tournament, not an actual league. All the countries over there have their own domestic leagues(some have several, like Spain does), and the ACB is probably the strongest, probably followed by the top leagues in Greece and Russia.
Spurs Basketball. Improving [other] NBA teams since 2010! - swgeek
I am not sure myself if one should consider Euroleague a league or tournament. If you look at their web-page, it looks like league’s web-page http://www.euroleague.net/. They have regular season, playoffs, teams, players, stats, etc. Just like NBA. One can also argue that NBDL is not an actual league, it depends on definition of what a league is.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
I define a league as one twenty-thousandth of the length you need to go under the sea in order to see some really cool stuff.
Alfajores cause mojo! - janieannie
by jollyrogerwilco on Mar 17, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
After you walk 20000 of them under the sea any stuff would look to you as a really cool stuff.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
If you could walk them, you’d be pretty special.
Alfajores cause mojo! - janieannie
by jollyrogerwilco on Mar 25, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
ku
I wish the spurs could draft Cole Aldrich from Kansas although he’s only a Jr. as a sop. he averaged a Double double in big 12 play only other guy to do that was blake griffin, Hes 6-11 245 with a 7-4 wingspan. he has the the first official triple double in ku history with 13, 20 and ten blocks. He’s that guy who will get you 15 points 12 reb 2 blocks and 3 assists.
He’ll probably be drafted too high for us to snag.
by silverandblack_davis on Mar 14, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Chris Bosh is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season…. I havent seen him play much so Ill take your word for it about his crappy defense.
Still though , I just dont like the Idea of our best big man being named Haywood or Splitter after Tim Duncan is gone.
Granted this is still two years away, but shit , if you got a chance to get a Chris Bosh why not jump on it.
Crappy teams fear us !
Next summer, Marc Gasol and Brook Lopez become available… so there’s that.
Spurs Basketball. Improving [other] NBA teams since 2010! - swgeek
y3s, the Marc Gasol option would be nice, REAL NICE!
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Artis Gilmore on Mar 14, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I like the thought of Lopez. How bout a deal at the deadline where we send Jefferson to the Nets for Harris and Lopez? Obviously we throw something else in the deal, draft picks?, but the Nets could get rid of Harris big contract and get something for Lopez. Splitter this summer and Lopez next?
It seems to me that this kind of analysis misses something very important. The first question we should ask ourselves is whether we need a game changer or if we just need a missing piece of a puzzle. I am seriously afraid that we need to look for a game changer at this point, for a guy who can become a cornerstone of the organization for the next 10 years. Basically, we should start looking for our next Tim Duncan. I don’t think there is a guy like that on this list. There are a lot of serviceable options, Splitter is probably about as good as Scola, who we gave away, or may be as good as Mahinmi, who cannot get much playing time. Most of other guys on the list are some versions of Theo Ratliff, Drew Gooden or Nazr Mohammed. Whoever we can get is not going to make any important difference, we may as well use the guys who we have right now.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
Honestly, if you look at Spurs biggest weaknesses, like 2 additional athletic big men who can play some D is what the Spurs need most, more so than a “big name game changer.”
Blair is a better Malik in the making, but he doesn’ t have the size. Dice is good to have, but he’s more situational, especially when you play the super athletic teams like Portland/OKC.
If Spurs can get a 6’8 guy and like a 6’10/6’11 guy with longer wing spans that have some bball IQ and don’t mind playing D, they are in pretty good shape. Obviously they also need to refresh their swing guys, but look to be doing a good job already with picking up Jackson and Temple as potential guys to come in next season (with Hairston also).
Theo is tall, could play some D and seems to have some BBall IQ. And Kurt Thomas, Rasho, Nazr. The point is we had all those guys, and they didn’t make us that much better. We could bring somebody like that and still look for low playoff seed and first round exit. I don’t think we should look for the holes to patch, we should figure out, how we could become significantly better.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
In the past, Spurs had quantity. Horry was the key piece in that. He played super D, was smart and was athletic enough in his limited moments.
Quality is important, but so is quantity. If Spurs could, they would have kept Kurt Thomas. He’s still agile enough and quick enough to play.
The problem is the Spurs are so limited up front and they don’t have a guy like Hill who is big enough to do what they need up front. The problem is big men with a full set of skills are so limited. However, there are enough talented guys out there who do enough at a few skills. That’s what the Spurs need to do. Pick up guys like that.
In the past, Spurs had quantity.
Key words of your comment are “in the past”. In the past the Spurs had one of the best players of the decade in Tim Duncan. They also had a couple of all-stars in backcourt, and a perennial all-NBA first team defender in Bruce Bowen. So they just needed some serviceable bigs to round up the championship contender. This decade Tim is not going to dominate as he used to, and we lost Bruce. So having Kurt Thomas or McDyess doesn’t bring us to the same level. Now we are one legit superstar away from the trophy. If we could bring a guy like Durant to this team, we would be a legit contender again. If we bring Haywood, he’ll contribute some, like Dice, RJ or Theo. But he won’t make us a contender again.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
The Spurs need talent. A lot of their issues can be found throughout each position. The key is having high quality at the majority of your positions. You can’t cover them all, but you can cover a lot of them.
Even if we don’t focus on the big man area, there are still a lot of holes in the team make up when we look at 4 to 1 positions. Outside of Manu and Parker (hopefully he’ll be healthy next season) and Duncan there is a little bit lacking in the surrounding pieces. Hill is definitely improving day by day. He’s still a youngin, but that is a start.
After that, there is a lot of area to cover. Hairston looks like a good potential piece next season. He is partially guaranteed so he has a good chance of coming back. Hopefully RJ can keep up his current string up quality aggressiveness.
After that, you have a lot of free agents and little money to spend outside of the MLE and the LLE (I don’t think they used their bi-annual exception this past summer).
The Spurs did with with Nazr as the starting center. This was because they had quality guys at the other 4 positions. And they need more guys like Bowen for instance. They aren’t necessarily big named guys, but they did do something well.
So, you are saying that we are lacking depth. My view is the opposite. I believe, that we have good players. That’s why we consistently beat Minnesotas and Clippers of the league. Our players are good, and we can beat inferior opposition and have 6-8 guys in double digits. But our problem is that we don’t have five guys who are better than staring five of other good NBA teams. That’s why we are losing so many games to above-the-average teams. I like our guys, they are good, but we are just missing a superstar, who would be as good or better as our Big 3, and who could bring us over the top. Unless we can find this missing piece, we are going to have another disappointing season next season, and neither Splitter, nor Haywood is going to change it.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
Spurs have players, but they don’t fit the system as well as years past. There’s a lot of specialization and much of it depends on 3 point shooting.
Many of these guys aren’t known for their defense and the balance of defense and offense has not been there. It has changed slightly with the two young guys who have come in and the departure of Finley, but it still is shakey.
Spurs still lack a lot of size from 3 to 5. RJ is your biggest 3 and Hairston can play the 3, but he’s not as big. Blair is a tweener, who brings something unique, but still is a rookie. He’s still too short to be depended on alone. He needs someone who’s bigger that can help him play off those bigger athletic teams.
Let’s assume Manu comes back and Parker comes back healthy next season after resting over the summer. This leaves
Duncan/Parker/Manu/Hill/RJ/Dice/Blair/Hairston (partially guaranteed).
This leaves a lot of spots that need help. Spurs need to bolster the athleticism up front. Their pick ups recently (if they pan out) give them more defense on the wing. Temple is 6’6, with good wing span, so if he pans out, all the better.
Still, they can really use one or two guys who come in at 6’9 to 6’11. Obviously, the Splitter situation can fill in one of those spots, but having depth at the big spots can give Duncan the much needed rest during some games or spell McDyess if he’s having a tough night.
Let’s say they somehow score Splitter and Haywood. That would be as ideal as it gets. It’s nearly impossible with the way their payroll is setup though. But if it did happen, it gives them size up front and guys who can match up with some of the other bigs. This also allows Duncan to cheat as the weak side defender giving him the ability to clean up the lane and prevent the constant penetration we’ve seen the last two seasons.
For a decade, we knew what the system was, and the task was just to find the guys, who fit the system. We often think that this is still the case. But we don’t have anymore a dominating big, who commands double team every night. We don’t have a lock-down defender, who can guard the best player of the opposition every night. We are not the best defensive team of the league. We can try to find the personnel, who fits the system. We should then start from looking for a new Tim Duncan, who can dominate next decade as Tim dominated last decade. We should find a new Bruce Bowen, new Robert Horry, and we’ll need a new Manu Ginobili soon. But every one of these guys was unique in his own way, and to find adequate replacements is a very very long shot. Tim Duncans do not come in every draft, and then one of them does come, there is a competition of 29 other teams.
Alternatively, we can look at the team we have right now and try to figure out, how we should play to increase our chances to win. I think, this is what Pop has been trying to do this season. It may mean playing small ball and it may mean more emphasis on offense than we used to. It may not succeed, and then we need to rebuild. And if we are rebuilding, we should figure out first, who is going to be our future Man or our future Franchise Players. Then we should figure out, what system would work the best for those guys. The System brought us 4 championship, but it is not going to bring us more, if we don’t change it. Shuffling around role players would not repair the System, we need to change it.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
You are right Kondor, but what I like about Tim’s article is that he is giving the realistic available options for the Spurs. Yes, if the next Tim Duncan magically falls in our lap we should take him, but to get a game changer we probably have to tank a few seasons and then get lucky in the lottery. Tim explicitly does not talk about that scenario:
The Spurs have a few different paths they can take during the upcoming offseason, but we’re concentrating on just one. <\blockquote>
If there is another way to get a game changer I would love to hear it.
Yes, you should.
=]
Alfajores cause mojo! - janieannie
by jollyrogerwilco on Mar 17, 2010 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Tim says that
That path is best described as “all in” trying to win a championship next year.
, and then he proceeds to discuss very marginal players, who will do nothing for us to win the championship. This is exactly what I have a problem with. If he said “our plan is to make playoffs and be competitive in the first round against one of elite teams, let us look who can realistically help us with that”, then salivating over Haywood, Camby and Splitter would be justified. Those guys are good enough to help us during regular season, but they are not good enough to make us a contender. If we are looking for “all in” scenario, we should pay more attention to people like Bosh, Wade, Durant, Carmelo, Paul, D-Will. It may be very unlikely to get one of those guys, but we are not going anywhere if we only get Jamison or Haywood for Bonner. Both Jamison and Haywood are good role players, and none of them is good enough to make us a contender.
We should start rebuilding around Durant
thats also why the lineup i submitted made alot of sense. the starting five will allow you to cremate most teams and give the elite teams fits. plus by the time duncan leaves they have the 15 mill that jefferson is getting and the 9 mill that ford is getting just after the first year. plus tim and ginobili’s contract will expire about the same time so there goes another big sum of money also. there will be alot of good young superstars available just left to pick up because everbody else spent their money on this upcoming free agent group so they wont be able to comepete with the spending. that roster really makes more sense than its obvious apperance
spurs or nothin
Excellent. I realize there’s really a dearth of good bigs in the league nowadays… maybe Timmy should just really play C and let’s get a shotblocking/athletic PF instead?
by silverandblack_davis on Mar 14, 2010 10:08 PM CDT reply actions
Through the draft
Maybe I missed his name in the discussions, but I’m keen on Jarvis Varnado of Mississippi State. http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/60548
He’s 6-foot-9, comes from a good conference as a senior, rebounds well, blocks shots very well. He doesn’t look like a prototype center, but beyond Shaq (maybe for a year), Yao (if he’s healthy), Brook Lopez and Dwight Howard, teams can get by without a 7-footer in the starting lineup.
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