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Around SBN: Newcastle Battle Injury Woes Ahead of Tottenham

Talking Offensive Execution with Chip Engelland

A while back, I posted a request for questions to ask Coach Popovich.  At the time I thought it would be a useful way for me to gather good questions as well as provide you guys with some access to Pop's thoughts.  Part of my problem with approaching Coach Pop was that I had fairly complex questions I wanted to ask--questions that he probably couldn't satisfactorily answer without me using a lot of his time by asking follow-up questions.  When you guys gave me your suggestions, they were the same type of good, but complex, questions.  It was the pursuit of an answer for  "what does a pick-setter do" that got me some time to talk to Coach Budenholzer.

While waiting to talk to Coach Budenholzer, I hit pay dirt.  It was ATS Nirvana.

Star-divide

Opportunity


LatinD and I were standing on the edge of the court waiting to talk to Coach Budenholzer.  While hanging out, we met a man named Toracio.  He's the other guy in the photo with me and Coach Budenholzer.  If LatinD ever gets around to writing again, I'm sure he will include Toracio.  As LatinD mentioned from the Hawks game, it's great fun to watch the guys shoot in warm-ups because they are just so good.  They simply don't miss.  After finishing up his work with Michael Finley, Coach Engelland came over to say hello.  He still remembers me from media day and invariably makes a crack about using my quads (see, he'd fit in around here easy).  I introduced him to LatinD and Toracio and we hung out chatting for a minute or two.  Then the PR guy who was arranging for us to talk to Coach Budenholzer came by and said, "Hey.  He's an assistant coach.  Maybe you guys can ask him some questions."  What a grand idea.

I started in with LatinD's question.  What does an assistant coach do during the game?   He replied that it depended on the team.  It was one way when he was in Denver and a different way in San Antonio.  He said that for the Spurs, each coach has a different area of the game they are in charge of.  Rebounding, matchups, etc.  He is in charge of charting the shots.  OH REALLY?

Groundwork


You see, I chart shots.  Possession by possession, I chart all the shots we take during a game.  LatinD referred to it in his Part 5 post when he had his media pass.  I find it a very effective way to get a grasp on trends during a game.  At a glance, I can see (for example) that we made 4 layups in 6 possessions.  Or that we turned the ball over 4 times in a row.  Or that we were scoreless 8 out of 9 possessions.  All those things are laid out in front of me like a picture.  At some point, I will transcribe all the charting into data and overwhelm you with charts.  But today is not that day.

So when Coach Engelland said he charted shots, I said, "Oh really.  I chart shots as well.  That's what I do when I watch a game."  And I went on to explain what I just told you in the last paragraph.

Pay Dirt


That's when I jumped in with my own question.  Well, not really my question, but our Laker troll Olf's question.  I had been turning it over in my head for several weeks and this seemed like the perfect time to bring it up.  "If I'm a fan watching the game and not looking at a box score, how do I know if the Spurs are executing their offense?"  That was the launching point for the discussion (thank you olf).  I told Coach Engelland that I thought it was a difficult question and that I had thought about it quite a bit.  Obviously layups are good.  And open 3-point looks are good.  But not all open shots are good.  A guy taking a wide open 20-footer with 18 seconds on the shot clock isn't good.  The same shot with 4 seconds on the shot clock is a good shot.  I also told him that I thought shooting percentage was misleading because sometimes you make shots and sometimes you don't, so a shooting percentage for a quarter or two doesn't tell you whether you are executing.   So what's the secret?

He said he really pays attention to ball movement, determined by how many open uncontested looks the team gets as well as balance.  Are they getting a good ratio of attempts near the basket vs from the outside?  He said there are times when they go into halftime with a lead and have scored a lot of points, but that he thinks they aren't moving the ball well and have just managed to hit contested shots.  He said those are the games where the law of averages tend to even out and we can expect to start missing shots if we keep doing what we did in the first half.  So if we are making contested shots, he wants to encourage the team to start moving the ball more because we were fortunate to have been making shots.

He then made the statement that we are a much better shooting team on open shots than on contested shots.  That's when I got to surprise him.  You see, I have this uncanny ability to take observations and turn them into numbers.  I can watch something, observe a trend, and then put a number to it.  So I might be able to watch a game, note that we were going to the left side of the court a lot, then be able to say we went to the left on 60% of possessions.  I'm strangely accurate with these numbers.

So, I said, "Yeah.  We are a lot better shooting team when we are wide open.  It's got to be something like 25% better."  He sort of backed up a bit and said, "It's exactly 25%".  And on we went.  We talked about what he considered a challenged shot and how it was different from other coaches.  What was a weakly challenged shot vs really getting a hand in the face and obstructing the shooter's view.  He also said it is this data that he uses to talk to players about how they shoot from the floor and what they need to work on.

I was able to bring up enough of my questions and describe enough of my observations to take comfort in knowing that my analytic approach to the game is sound.  I spend so much of my time watching and writing about the games by myself  that sometimes I'm not sure whether I'm just making stuff up or whether I might know what I'm talking about.  After talking to Coach Engelland, I have a little more confidence that it's the latter.

It was a hell of a day for me.

Comment 53 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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Way cool (Jr.) Wayne.

Nicely done. I for one am of the opinion that you do know what you are talking about. And not just because you gave me super powers.

We aren't who we thought we were.

by SinCitySpur on Feb 10, 2010 12:17 AM CST reply actions  

Damn it, another legacy member changing their avatar? WTF?

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney

by bellasa on Feb 11, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, I changed back last week. Doesn’t that count for something?

oh, I see. You weren’t talking about me. Ok. I guess I’m not legacy enough for you.

That’s fine.

The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones

by J.R. Wilco on Feb 11, 2010 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Change bad. Keeping things the same good. brought to you by Geico.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney

by bellasa on Feb 11, 2010 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Except when it comes to how the Spurs are playing right now. I’m all for some change.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 11, 2010 5:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, yeah… I’m not completely delusional.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney

by bellasa on Feb 11, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I learn something every day.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 11, 2010 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

too easy.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney

by bellasa on Feb 11, 2010 7:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, Alzheimer’s will do that.

Don't compare RJ to Sean unless he's coming up clutch while playing with a failing kidney.

by Tim C. on Feb 11, 2010 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

So, you would be opposed to me changing my avatar, even though I have changed it in the past?

by CapHill on Feb 12, 2010 4:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I hated yours when you first changed it. But it’s grown on me and I really like it now.

The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones

by J.R. Wilco on Feb 12, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I felt the same way. I really didn’t like it, but it’s grown on me. I still like the old one better. It was beautiful… much like mine.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney

by bellasa on Feb 12, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Had to do it for the mojo’s sake bella, please understand. LD wouldn’t let me sacrifice him, so I had to do something. All these losses are taking a toll on my soul, heythatrhymes.

We aren't who we thought we were.

by SinCitySpur on Feb 11, 2010 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

There wasn’t even a vote. My online musings about changing my avatar was shut down.
 ::looking in your direction JRW::

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney

by bellasa on Feb 11, 2010 11:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I’ve grown since then.

You may consider yourself free to find a new avatar. In fact, let me suggest one now. I was going to use this for myself, but I’m cool with it if you decide to take it instead.

The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones

by J.R. Wilco on Feb 12, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones

by J.R. Wilco on Feb 12, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

:: scratching JRW’s name from the Valentine’s List. Check::

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney

by bellasa on Feb 12, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I actually avoided Sin with a very elaborate ruse that involved driving 80 extra miles and being pulled over by a cop.

Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Feb 12, 2010 4:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Now THAT’S what I call fleeing temptation.

The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones

by J.R. Wilco on Feb 12, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

HA! Sorry to hear about that LD. Did you get stuck in that dam dam traffic? Did you take any dam dam pictures?

We aren't who we thought we were.

by SinCitySpur on Feb 12, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I don’t guess they’ve opened that new bridge yet… have they?

Don't compare RJ to Sean unless he's coming up clutch while playing with a failing kidney.

by Tim C. on Feb 12, 2010 7:57 PM CST up reply actions  

No, but that thing is going to be freaking awesome! Have you seen it’s progress?

We aren't who we thought we were.

by SinCitySpur on Feb 12, 2010 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Haven’t been up there since the summer. But if I’m still gonna be around Phoenix this summer, it’s worth the drive.

Don't compare RJ to Sean unless he's coming up clutch while playing with a failing kidney.

by Tim C. on Feb 15, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I don’t care what everyone else says about you Wayne, I think you’re alright.

"I will five all over this blog." - JRW

by Manuwar on Feb 10, 2010 1:29 AM CST reply actions  

Who is this Wayne person you speak of?

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney

by bellasa on Feb 11, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Isn’t that his frist name?

The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones

by J.R. Wilco on Feb 11, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Cool story. Are you going to write a post on your theory of why we suck so much?

To serve man.
Gustatus similis pullus.

by Hipuks on Feb 10, 2010 2:49 AM CST reply actions  

I’m still new here but just wanted to say I’ve really been enjoying these posts of yours.

I can relate to the ability to be close or spot on with numbers thing. I’m often pretty exact when I look at a stack of poker chips and guesstimate the number or guess how much time has passes since X, or guess/figure percentages or odds of whatever, I think like that all the time.

But reading this inspires me a bit to get more into the numbers game of Spurs games. I’m normally too emotionally attached to do this much during games (other than usually remembering fairly well the basic stats of the game as it goes on such as fouls, shots made/missed for specific players, etc, just by watching it). With how much the Spurs are sucking lately, anything to occupy myself mentally during games might help.

I’m curious what you’ll come up with and share next.

by M3D1T8R on Feb 10, 2010 7:04 AM CST reply actions  

I think it would be a very worth-while endeavor to go over how Wayne watches a Spurs game. I’d like to see the actual process of his shot-charting during a game and find out exactly what he looks for when looking at a boxscore. Any tips and tricks that he knows.

i.e. – I often make quick guestimations of offensive and defensive efficiency while looking at the box score of a game I was unable to watch. Add up field goals and turnovers and compare to points scored. In the Lakers game, we were terrible on offense (82FGA+13TO=95, which is significantly greater than the 86 points we scored) and mediocre, at best, on defense (87FGA+9TO=96, significantly less than the 101 points scored).

Now, that’s not a great way of reading a box score, but it is always something I look at. I’d love to see what someone who actually knows a lot more about basketball than I do sees when they look at box scores or when they watch the games.

by OneWing on Feb 10, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Excellent job, sir.

"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich

by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Feb 10, 2010 7:37 AM CST reply actions  

Great post ATS. I would love to see one of your charting worksheets scanned and on the website!

"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG

by LasEspuelas on Feb 10, 2010 8:40 AM CST reply actions  

Me too. Plus, I’d like to know how you actually chart the shots – is it per quarter?

by CapHill on Feb 10, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Hey. Great article. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

Which of these things is not like the others? 15 NBA Championships, most wins in NBA history, current NBA champions, lost by 20 to the F'ing Spurs.

by olf on Feb 10, 2010 9:54 AM CST reply actions  

thanks for the robitussin old man.

GTFOML!

by the little o on Feb 10, 2010 11:12 AM CST reply actions  

?

"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html

by Joe deLarios on Feb 10, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

this post is much needed basketball medicine for me at the moment.

GTFOML!

by the little o on Feb 10, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

ah, no roborocket here…….

"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html

by Joe deLarios on Feb 10, 2010 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

the roborocket is when stupid young kids drink entire bottles of robitussin and become really sick……….

"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html

by Joe deLarios on Feb 10, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

hah, dxm trips are fun.

GTFOML!

by the little o on Feb 10, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

except for the overdose part

"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html

by Joe deLarios on Feb 11, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok future shooting coach – don’t forget us when you go the big leagues!

"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html

by Joe deLarios on Feb 10, 2010 11:16 AM CST reply actions  

It’s nice to know we have an assistant coach paying attention to detail on offense.

Do we have someone paying this kind of attention to detail on defense and charting plays too?

I would love to read an article about that.

by GhosTown on Feb 10, 2010 11:35 AM CST reply actions  

Did you get a chance to talk to pubits?

by richbruiser on Feb 10, 2010 12:08 PM CST reply actions  

Thanks for this, Wayne. I’m really looking forward to the charts. That’s probably the first time in my life I have written the preceding sentence.

I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.

by Lauri on Feb 10, 2010 12:42 PM CST reply actions  

Apropos of nothing:

I miss Romaju. Where the hell is he?

I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.

by Lauri on Feb 10, 2010 1:17 PM CST reply actions  

“Tarasios”, Wayne.

Great post. It was a cool moment, indeed.

Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Feb 11, 2010 2:10 PM CST reply actions  

Wayne spells like Brad Pitt speaks eye-talian.

Don't compare RJ to Sean unless he's coming up clutch while playing with a failing kidney.

by Tim C. on Feb 11, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

How about the way Brad Pitt speaks Spanish in The Mexican?

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 11, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Never saw it.

::runs from shitstorm::

Don't compare RJ to Sean unless he's coming up clutch while playing with a failing kidney.

by Tim C. on Feb 11, 2010 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

It’s a pretty bad movie. But the Brad Pitt character has some quality scenes. Especially the one where he is renting the El Camino because he doesn’t want to look like a tourist.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 11, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

That’s a quality scene.

There are a couple more as well, although the third act is an RJ-sandwich.

The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones

by J.R. Wilco on Feb 11, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

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