Pull it together, people
by J.R. Wilco on Feb 19, 2010 1:49 PM CST
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PrintWhat follows is a reply to WillyD's recent comment that got too long to simply post as a reply, so I'm sharing it here.
Feel free to follow me beyond the jump, but I warn you: there is ranting.
Notice I'm not saying "please"
WillyD, when the Spurs dropped Ratliff as they did, for so little in return, it tells us that when we thought that "he could’ve been a crucial part of a playoff run," (as you said) that we weren't being realistic about his ability to contribute, or the staff's confidence in his postseason capabilities.
I'm tired of the whining from people who seem to assume that they know more from watching the Spurs play, than the coaching staff and front office know from working with and living with the players on a daily basis. Maybe without GhosTown's drum-banging I wouldn't be so fed up, and this isn't a bust on Willy specifically, but on the current attitude that's pervading PtR.
Fire Pop! Bonner bad! Trade Pop! Bonner bad!
It's easy to believe that Pop and R.C. know what they're doing when all is going well, but just as soon as we lose a few games that "we should have won" watch all of the naysayers come out of the woodwork. Yes, Scola was a mistake, but we can't expect them to be perfect -- no one could live up to that!
Let's try cheering for the team and seeing where the season goes without assuming that with this move "They waved the white flag on the season and gave the middle finger to the fans in one fell swoop." How about actually withholding judgment at least until the Rodeo Road Trip is finished? I know it's easy to doubt, but can't we at least let the team play their games and hope for the best?
Wouldn't you feel worse as a fan if (after trashing the FO and the coaching staff, and assuming they have no shot in the playoffs) the Spurs put it together and went on a deep postseason run? Wouldn't you feel like a fraud cheering for a team after giving up on them?
I know I would.
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Nice post. Adorable photo.
I truly don’t think our team is in dire straits. They’re no more as awful as the stretch they lost five of six in January than they are as great as the squad that beat Miami by 30, the Lakers by 20 and were top 4 in the league in point differential. They were up there even with Tony playing hurt, Dyce missing his jumper and fumbling the ball near the paint, Blair making rookie mistakes, Hill getting fewer minutes and Manu nowhere near where he now is. All with RJ being the same less than expected player. I see it as more likely things improve than get worse.
It’s not a talent or coaching issue. It’s a consistency and cohesion issue. Time should resolve the latter going forward. That would then help with the former. We’ll certainly know more by the end of March than we do now.
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
I’ll take some of the blame here. Some of you already know about a recent problem I had, which required a cross-country road trip and a lot of money to fix, but I’ve been feeling very malaise, and not really adding much fun or substance to the site. I’ll work on that.
Don't compare RJ to Sean unless he's coming up clutch while playing with a failing kidney.
It’s funny because I think we also came apart last season around this time. Or was it right before the playoffs?
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
The whole thing where people are getting mad at bloggers for criticizing Spurs personel because the said blogger doesn’t know enough or isn’t quallified enough to pass such judgement is bogus. If that were so (which it is) then that would make us all unquallified to comment on things good or bad.
Imagine this: “Timmy is the best player ever. EVER!” Would anyone respond with, “You don’t know enough about basketball to make that comment.”?
Lets face it, the reason that we get upset over Pop being criticized is because we like him, a lot. Not because the person making the comments is knowledgeless and thus isn’t entitled to such comments. And by the way I’m fine with having an emotional attachment to Pop (so gay right?) and I’ll continue to stick up for Pop but I won’t tell someone they don’t know enough to have an opinion because my opinion is probably based on more or less the same amount of “knowledge” (watch Spurs, read articles, listen to interviews, look up stats).
"I will five all over this blog." - JRW
Your point is well made, but misses the point that I think JRW was making. He’s not saying that you can’t have a less informed opinion than that of the coaching staff or of the FO. He’s saying that assuming you know MORE than they do is what he has a problem with.
I’m tired of the whining from people who seem to assume that they know more from watching the Spurs play, than the coaching staff
I agree with him. I will say that I think Hairston should get playing time, but it’s just my opinion and I pass it off as nothing more.
Big, I just scrapped a very long reply to Manuwar because you just stated my case better in one fifth the space. You’re right that my issue is with those who seem to think that they know more.
But I will add this: have your opinions and make your points and enjoy yourself while spouting off based on what you see and think and guess (I do that and it’d be silly to deny others the same opportunity) but have the courtesy to give credit to the pros without assuming that they’re idiots for not doing what you think they should, while ignoring the fact that they have access to much, much more information about the team and the players than we’ll ever dream of.
And I think this can make their jobs both easier and harder to do. The point is, they’re not idiots any more that we’re all geniuses.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
Is that adorable boy one of the jrwlings? If so, I’d be more than happy to send a child-sized drum kit down your direction.
Personally, I don’t care if someone gets mad – I just want the mad to bring something new. I think we can agree to disagree, except for Hipuks (and me occasionally), who will agree to be disagreeable.
On that note, I’m going to give a shout out to Tony, who despite what I’ve said on numerous occasions, does not suck!
Bonner, the “Scalabrine of the West,” should have been shipped out before Ratliff, who, even at his advanced age, could provide some rim protection for 15-20 min. per game. Apparently Larry Brown agrees. Unless the green Mahinmi proves to be a godsend, which appears unlikely, the Spurs are in dire need of a big who can defend. The myopic and inflexible Popovich cannot see this, frivolous comments by Lauri and others notwithstanding.
So, all we really need to get Pop is a pair of glasses, and a yoga instructor and he’ll be ready to move forward with making better decisions?
Or are there other problems you have with him besides his myopia and inflexibility?
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
Ooooh, name check! I feel all important and shit.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Lauri! … Mercer!!!
Come on now. Do I need to separate you two?
Don’t make me come back there. I’ll do it!
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
I’m not touching you. I’m not touching you. I’m not touching you.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
JRW is like thisclose to turning this thread around, young lady.
Hilariously maladjusted. But for all the right reasons.
GOL²
and a JTU to boot.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
pun only slightly intended
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
Q, you did notice the boot reference. Didn’t you?
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
jeeeebus – I wasn’t the only one calling for an athletic big early in the season, was I?
by Artis Gilmore on Nov 6, 2009 12:32 PM PST on Spurs @ Jazz: Stat of the Game: 7 on Pounding The Rock
…for his defending. The Spurs were giving up on the defensive end by gaining McDyess but gaining a big who could hit a mid-range jumper. McDyess is not the answer for clogging the middle.
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Feb 20, 2010 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
Mercer, I think the FO has made a few costly blunder in the last year, but I dont think getting rid of Theo is one of them. I think if youngevity was in any shape to help the Spurs, he would have seen alot more time… ( Of course , its entirely possible he will go on to become an integral part of Charlottes club, in that case I will be eating my words )
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
Whatever Theo would do for Bobcats doesn’t really concern me. I just wonder what this trade does for us. Does it make us better? Worse? No effect? I understand money-saving part of it, but don’t understand the basketball side. I used to hope that Theo was somehow our secret weapon against the Lakers. Now this hope is gone.
It would appear to be a no-effect type trade. God knows that pick isnt going to net us anything. Even Manu was selected at like what ? number 57 ?
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
I don’t care about no pick at this point. Does this trade do anything for our playoff hopes this season? Is Theo being gone a good thing because it stabilizes the bigs’ rotation? Is it a bad thing because we cannot match up with big Lakers? Does it have no effect because Theo wouldn’t help anyway? Those are the questions I am trying to answer.
I really dont think it hurt the spurs. It certainly helped Holts pocketbook though. I cant blame the man.
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
I don’t like this trade at face value. It is not enough of a difference in pocketbook for that to be the main reason – trading Mason would have been better savings for what we lost. Theo would at least provide height if very little else.
However, I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes or in practice. Maybe he wasn’t fitting in, maybe he had bad practices, maybe he wanted more minutes or wanted out. Who knows.
I’m amazed, for lack of a better word to read all this back and forth. I personally feel/think that irrespective of what we all think or assume, the organization knows what it is doing and it is in the best interest of them to remain successful. They have more or at lease equal amount to lose than us. Let us not forget that. Now, having said that, every individual can/should have the ability to express their opinion, whether it is positive or negative. That is what public forums are all about. It is as simple as that. If any one has a problem with any comments(except for direct personal attacks on folks here), they should simply ignore and not respond to it. If you expect appreciation for doing well, expect to be criticized as well when you don’t do well. That is what freedom of speech is all about. This is just my humble opinion.
I can tell you from experience the “fire the coach” crowd never feels bad when their team wins it all. As they celebrate alongside everyone else they obnoxiously proclaim the team won because “that idiot coach finally wised up and did things the way I always said he should”.
Conversely, when the “fire the coach” crowd gets their way to disastrous effect they never, ever, ever admit their own culpability in their team’s destruction. Exhibit A is Texas A&M football and RC Slocum.
Yeah, that was a bad situation. I am currently at the head of the “Dan Hawkins should have been fired” line, but he’s had four years, his record is 16-33, and his teams keep getting worse. It’s not often you can make up a drinking game for a coach’s press conferences because he says the same things over and over and over again.
Good Post JRW. But we can’t stop whining completely – part of the fun is the crying and teeth-gnashing about small ball and random lineups. Personally I think Pop does all that just to give us something to talk about.
But yeah, I am with you on people calling the coaching staff total idiots when we only have partial knowledge. They see how the players play and interact in practice, and that has to be a major factor in line-ups etc., not just height and build.
The whining issue:
No we can’t stop it completely, but there are cycles when it happens more and less often. I’d love to see a swing toward the less-whining-side beginning here soon.
The “They’re idiots” issue:
Go ahead an disagree, but it can help to recognize that, while many front offices are clueless, San Antonio’s is generally agreed to be one of the best. It could be much, much worse.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
This whole post was such a complete waste of my time. Bottom line is, we should fire Pop. And I know this because I’m smarter than you. And because I have inside connections that confirm both the need to fire Pop and the superior smartness that I possess.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
The best part about this is that you have inside connections to yourself.
"I will five all over this blog." - JRW
A person in possession of the type of superior smartness to which you refer would have a better sig than you do.
A person with a modicum of humility would have a sig that is less-self referential than yours.
A person with no time to waste would comment less with complaints about which posts are a waste of time.
A person with a less keen sense of humor would not have gone the mimic-my-enemies route to hilarious effect.
Well done.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
i love this team, but you know theo if used wisely would help us win games, just watched the bobcats game and he was good. saw his two blocks and it was good. i mean theo, if we could have played him 12-16 mins a game,he won’t score no point but he’ll rebound and block shots.i know those draft picks may give us unexpected gifts but then we’re talking “now”.i really hate that trade, i know you got faith on this team so do i, but then i really felt that, that “draft pick” can’t help us in the playoffs, we don’t even know “who is it”.
and i think its a second round draft pick?correct me if im wrong, but i really don’t like trading a guy like theo.
i would rather trade mahinmi.i mean his for the future but his not used well so how will we know his potential?!
i know your a fan who got faith esp when we would win the ring and say to other fans:“yeah right you’re too skeptic,see im right we won.now suck that skepticism of yours”.
but then as a fan its fine to have doubts cuz it makes ways for a better look at what your real team is and accept it, esp for this team, they got talent,its fine to have doubts,we know they’re good on paper,their even better than dallas in paper,but its just the “paper”
its not the game their showing us.
i know san antonio is a team that is loud on playoffs and don’t care bout the seedings so i guess faith is still in them.and i just hope they don’t waste it, but right now u got to accept that they are still not gelled as a team,and for me they better start now, better start before their too late, their opponents got better and gelling is the only way to win games against them.
and i guess pop is trying different line ups to see who’s good with who, but i guess more than half way,he should have figured out something,but i guess he already does, just want to see each line up potential.i still got faith.(even i know some of the line ups,who to sub is kinda stupid,IMO)
hoping for no more stupid moves like let tim off the bench.
i still got faith.
plus i hope cuz of no trades this feb we could come up with a trade by june that would surprise everybody and hoping to be better what rj brought. and i hope its ty thomas,see his game,he and theo were spectacular.6 blocks 25 mins?kidding me?!
Even in his best days, Theo was never a good rebounder.
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
and, outside of blocks, not a great defender.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Feb 21, 2010 8:39 AM CST up reply actions
at the end of the day, we should all realize how hard it is to become a champion and how inifinitely difficult it is to stay there. if we are close to the end of the line with this particular bunch, just think about how great the last 10 or so seasons have been – and how few teams get a chance to bask in that kind of limelight.
its OK to be pissed off at a less than stellar season, but the folks in the current spurs adminsitration have the chops. they have done it before and there is no credible reason to think they can’t build another top flight team after this one goes away. they are also not perfect – they do make mistakes from time to time like everyone else.
by bones on Feb 20, 2010 8:26 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yes.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Feb 21, 2010 8:36 AM CST up reply actions
First of all, if it’s nothing personal against me, and you just want to write a generic post about Spurs fans going into panic mode, maybe don’t repeatedly link to my comments and call me out.
Second, even though I don’t make my living in basketball, I’m still allowed to comment on events in the basketball world. I’m allowed to say that the Ratliff trade was a dumb trade where we gave away a potentially valuable postseason player for literally nothing. We didn’t get another player, we didn’t free up cap room for next year (he was on a one year contract anyway), and we are almost guaranteed to not even receive a draft pick. If you disagree with my analysis of the trade, feel free to let me know how great a trade it was and why I’m dumb for not seeing the benefit of it, but to argue that there is some kind of "Pop"al Infallibility is absurd.
Third, the comment of mine that set you off about how “we all knew Theo wouldn’t do much in the regular season” came after a whole string of people arguing that it wasn’t a loss because Theo didn’t play anyway. I was trying to make the point that Theo’s value lay in the postseason, not the regular season, and that this was hardly news given that no one expected a player of his age to play 30 minutes a night, but he sure as hell matched a long standing pattern of older players who hardly play in the regular season but make key contributions in the playoffs for the Spurs and pretty much every other championship team in recent memory.
GO SPURS GO!
5 IN '10!
I’m not going to jump on the bandwagon of bashing everyone, but Willy does have a point. I honestly would have gotten rid of Bonner before Theo, he isn’t doing the one thing he does well as of late, and his defense consists of sticking his arms up. Even at 36 or however old he is, Theo is a MUCH better defender and still has probably twice as much athleticism, which is what we need isn’t it?
AKA: Linix129
by sw12 on Feb 20, 2010 11:20 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sorry to call you out, Willy. I see that I took your comments out of context, and reacted to an attitude I perceived from what you wrote, but that you didn’t have
You’re absolutely allowed to comment on events and say that you think it was a dumb trade. I guess I’d read a few too many comments by GhosTown and went off prematurely.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
if u watch his debut with thomas in a ’cats uniform,i was saying this was a dumb trade and not playing him,see he had 5 rebs and 2 block in 18 mins,even w/o scoring he was defending,and maybe larry brown is laughing saying why did we let go of such talent,see the ’cats defense and frontcourt is better than us,even if we have tim,no offense cuz tim is the only guy i can say other teams would defend in our frontcourt,u know i even think theo is better than chandler so even if he gets back,theo will still play 12-16 mins.
Wouldn’t you feel like a fraud cheering for a team after giving up on them?
i love these guys, you know the ones, the ones that get mad whenever you dare say anything negative about pop, POP KNOWS BEST! WE DONT KNOW SHIT!? give me a break.
this is a fan post, that means people give there opinions for better or worse, when the teams
doing good or bad, so get off your soap box. the team sucks right now, thats not an opinion, its a fact, and i dont need to be an NBA coach to see that.
the team sucks right now, thats not an opinion, its a fact
Dude. This sort of statement is BY DEFINITION an opinion. It CAN NOT be a fact. It’s just, like, your opinion, man.
And opinions are all we have, really, so I’m not slamming you for expressing one. I’m slamming you for expressing one and claiming that it’s a fact.
(By the way, could someone please tell me about all the years without Pop when the team was really really good? That’s what I keep waiting to hear from guys like you and GhosTown and mercer and all the other people who say we “suck” and that it’s all Pop’s fault.)
How many teams in the NBA would love to suck as bad as the Spurs do right now?
And before you trot out the same old rant, no, I’m not against criticism of Pop. I’m really really not. And I don’t think the Spurs are great right now. They’re certainly not firing on all cylinders. But to say that as a team they “suck” and to propose ludicrous trades and to shriek about firing Pop is 1) total overreaction and 2) kills any credibility you might have, thereby 3) leaving you wide open as a target for ridicule. (I don’t mean you, thumbring, specifically—I mean “you” anybody who does those things.)
People are not reacting negatively to reasonable criticism. They’re just not, no matter how many times you might claim they are. For months we have listened to and accepted posts that call various coaching decisions into question. “Why are we playing smallball?” “Why is Pop sitting Hill/Duncan/Ginobili/Player X?” “I hate this lineup.” “That game was fucking depressing, and I’m going to get drunk.” No one says boo to that sort of thing. It’s criticism and opinion, but it’s legit. It makes sense.
But hey, what fun is perspective, after all. To some extent our pleas for rationality and perspective and judiciousness are pointless, because there will always be a certain number of people who love to be all het up and angry about their team. I think they follow a team just to have something to feel outraged about. “Why, it’s an outrage that we don’t win a championship at least every other year, an outrage I tell you! I am outraged!”
To sum up my opinion:
This isn’t a very good year for the Spurs, but keep your wrecking ball in your pants.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
by Lauri on Feb 20, 2010 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I agree. Stating that Pop should be fired does invite ridicule. ( But only because it completely ignores the fact that Pop is essentially unfireable )
Now, stating that he shouldnt be coaching the team or that hes doing a bad job this year ? I think a sound case can be made for that argument
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
If someone were to make such a case against Pop, I’d read it and comment on it (or withhold my comments) accordingly.
But simply to state that he sucks, or that he can’t coach anymore, or that the team stinks — to do all of this with an air of infallibility, from the perspective that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot; well, that’s what my issue is with and why I wrote this post.
WillyD’s was a poor comment to post about, as I stated above, but the underlying points are these: please treat opinion as opinion, don’t be abusive if you’re rather not be abused, and if you’re someone whose enjoyment of your team relies heavily on busting on the players, coaches and front office when things aren’t going as well as you want them to, then expect that someone around here is going to ask you to back up your assertion with something that looks like a fact. Of course, it’s possible that they might just say that you’re full of it.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
Well said, Lauri.
Come on guys, maybe we’re a little spoiled ?? Are you a true Spurs fan or not ? Like Lauri said, give your opinion by all means, that’s what we’re here for. But for crying out loud, if your that good as a coach or Front office material, apply for the job. Has this year been disappointing ? Oh yeah. But if the Spurs are making you that miserable, maybe it’s time to shut it off for a while.
Maybe what might help our guys is to know we support them no matter what. Don’t you think they know they have been really sucking lately ? Once confidence is lost, it’s really hard to build it back up. So Duncan had a bad night, don’t we all have days like that ? I know, we aren’t being paid millions but irregardless, our Spurs are still human. Well maybe not Manu and possibly not Blair.
Give it a break, you’ll feel better and the rest of your fellow bloggers will appreciate it. And this site can get back to being the most fun place to spend a Sat night when you are either too old to party down or you’re too cool for your friends or maybe you’re lacking in social skills or…….maybe you just plain love to hang out with other folks that love the Spurs too!
Timmy D .... enough said.
perspective!
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Feb 21, 2010 7:47 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, last time I checked, being in playoff position in the western conference isn’t something that happens to teams that suck.
I can understand being frustrated by the team’s performance this year, and can even understand people thinking that Pop’s time has run out. But to say that the team sucks just reeks of being completely and utterly spoiled as a fan. This team has treated us so well over the last 12 seasons that some people don’t understand just how lucky we had it. I don’t want to stifle criticism, but how do you expect to make assertions that a fan of almost any other term would deem ludicrous and say that they can’t be questioned (“thats not an opinion, its a fact”) is completely asinine. End of story.
State your opinion without pretending that it’s anything more than that: an opinion. I’d expect the same from people who stand on the other side of the argument, it’s not a double standard to expect the same from you.
Don't compare RJ to Sean unless he's coming up clutch while playing with a failing kidney.
Yeah, last time I checked, being in playoff position in the western conference isn’t something that happens to teams that suck.
Some folks just don’t realize how spoiled they are as sports fans. It hits me time to time too. Seriously, sometimes I feel like the crying kid at HEB because I didn’t get a candy bar like last time. It “helps” that football season (Browns/Cowboys/Raiders fan) reminds me just how great the Spurs are…
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Feb 21, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
“I don’t want to stifle criticism”
but
“your allowed your own opinion but”
but
“we think we’er smarter than pop "
you guys are hilarious. you think saying the team sucks right now makes me a lesser fan?
you dont think the spurs themselves think there sucking right now? i’d like to live in your world of gum drops and rainbows, where nobody should ever be critical, say anything negative, disagree with anything positive, but i cant. if there sucking, im going to say they suck, is that makes you angry, sorry. And as far as getting into semantics about “fact” and “opinion” its a waste of time. Let me ask you a question, i know its going to be hard for you but just try.
are the spurs playing bad this year?
are they playing a lot worse than you thought they would?
are they playing a lot worse than they thaought they would?
yes! its ok to say it….it doesnt mean your not a fan
…and if i see them sucking , im going to say there sucking. get over it.
thumbring, I’m not saying that anyone is a worse or better fan (or a worse or better person) than I am. But there are differences between us, even if we choose the same team to support.
One of the main differences is this: I don’t think that semantics is all that separates fact from opinion; and I don’t think that it’s a waste of time to point that out. This is not an elitist position; it’s just one that you don’t happen to share. And because of this, there are times when I, and others here (Lauri, obviously) will have issues with what you post. You say
if i see them sucking , im going to say there sucking. get over it.
You have every right to say that, but please understand that the point of this site isn’t to point a finger at suckage whenever it might rear it’s ugly head. Those who frequent PtR tend to respond with a different kind of criticism when the team is
playing bad this year … playing a lot worse than you thought they would … playing a lot worse than they thaought they would
And because the default response isn’t the same as yours, doesn’t mean that we have to get over it, any more than it means that you need to change your attitude.
But it means that there will be friction. And it means that there will be arguments, and if it persists (as it did with GhostTown) then it means that there may be bannings. But all of this is because PtR means different things to different people, and those who run it want it to be a certain kind of site. We hope that everyone who wants to post here will understand and follow the guidelines that we’ve set.
It’s yours to decide how you want to respond to this.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
you think saying the team sucks right now makes me a lesser fan?
No, I think saying that the team sucks right now, and following up by saying that opinion can’t be questioned makes you unreasonable. It has no bearing on your status as a fan of the team.
Fire Pop from the Spurs! Fire Bonner from basketball! Fire your mother from child-rearing!
Exactly Tim C……see I can agree with more than one person. Still doesn’t mean that those people are the only ones right.
I am not saying you are not a good fan, will say in MY OPINION a true fan wouldn’t be ready to pull the plug. What purpose does it serve to expect everyone else on this site to deal with someone only spewing negativity then daring anyone else to respond. Maybe it lets you release all of that angst so you don’t fight with your wife ?
Who knows, but on the off chance you do happen to be a troll then grow your hair out, dye it bright green or pink, tease it so it stands straight up, take a picture and use it for your pic. That way we’ll know.
Was I disappointed again Sunday, yep. But my personal happiness does not depend on the Spurs winning or losing. (Don’t ban me please) Do I feel they need to make a change? Absolutely. (If it wasn’t Lent I could go further with that word). I’m going to trust Pop and Timmy to figure it out. After all I haven’t coached a team to FOUR Championships, I do believe they are more qualified than I.
Timmy D .... enough said.
by Ms. Smith on Feb 22, 2010 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Wow, just wow. This might have to become my new sig:
Who knows, but on the off chance you do happen to be a troll then grow your hair out, dye it bright green or pink, tease it so it stands straight up, take a picture and use it for your pic. That way we’ll know.
Ms. Smith, for a while, I wondered if writing this post had been a good idea. It seemed as though it had stirred up nothing but angst. And then, an epiphany, you posted your … words begin to fail me — what to call it except what it is: a masterpiece.
Check out the Quotes page. It’s been updated.
Rest the Croissant!
so when there playing great,,,“say there playing great”
when there playing bad,,,,,“dont be critcal,that makes you a fraud, pop knows what he’s doing”
still dont get it.
You really need to click on “reply”, beneath each comment. Your replies will be nested below, and won’t be pushed down when someone does reply to it.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I’m so glad getting rid of GhosTown solved all the problems. Championship here we come.
To serve man.
Gustatus similis pullus.
I think Ghos was within bounds with the large majority of his comments ( But obviously not the few times he personally attacked a member )
The thing is though, jesus, he went on and on and on about the same thing ( Im not advocating his banishment, just sayin )
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
wow, someone was banished?
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Feb 21, 2010 7:47 AM CST up reply actions
heh+1
Personally I didn’t agree with his ban
"He was just a young skinny guy who looked like a winner. We didn’t know he was going to be as good as he is."
—Popovich on Manu Ginobli
I agreed with it, though I admit with mixed feelings. The downside is that it creates a perception that we don’t want people to disagree. The upside is that I can now stand to read PTR threads without someone spamming the same post over and over. In the end I probably would have stopped reading PTR at some point if he had kept up the drumbeat, though that may have been a good thing for my productivity.
Ghostowns repetetive posts really would be the dealbreaker for you ?
While I agreed with much of what he says , I found his monotonous way of putting it a tad annoying.
Still, in no way shape or form would that ever influence my continued participation on this site. Im surprised this would affect yours.
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
That drum pounding toddler is wrong. Pop cant be fired, and trading Bonner wont amount to much good. Still though, the little guy has got the right idea in that maybe someone else should be coaching the Spurs next year.
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
Pop
The hell with next year — there’s no time like the present. The best thing that old cretin
could come up with during the long All-Star break was to reward his two least productive players with starting assignments, and then compound his idiocy by trading his only
shot-blocker (other than Duncan) for virtually nothing. It’s time to jettison Popovich and
RC. Larry Brown, anyone?
Kondor: I’m not sure that even the very inept Isiah Thomas could blunder more than
Popovich. It’s inconceivable to me that so many Spur fans regard him as some kind
of sacred cow who is above reproach.
Mercer: I can understand your frustration, but you seem just not getting, how many levels of suckitude we have between our situation and what was Isiah’s rein in NY. It’s like saying “US economy is so bad now, it’s just like Angola”. As for why many of us consider Pop “the sacred cow”, please read this post and try to understand.
He is not above reproach. We reproach him all the dang time.
Either you’re being deliberately obtuse or you’re just enjoying your rage (not to be confused with Rage) too much. I’ll leave you to it. Have fun storming the castle!
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
WOW – Lauri. first your drop the “keep your wrecking ball in your pants” line on us and now a “we reproach him all the time.” you are on FIRE in this thread.
Agreed. She’s damn near untouchable.
Not saying we’d every think about trading you Lauri.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
Thanks for joining the party CMoney, but Lauri’s been untouchable for quite a while.
Maybe you’d notice if you didn’t take the entire NFL season off from being a Spurs fan.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
Snap.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 22, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
How disappointing.
I was expecting you to chime in with an old-school WEAK SAUCE.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
Ugh. Weak sauce. That needs to be retired permanently. It just has no zing.
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
Huh?! They have COMPLETELY different meanings! It’s like saying that you’d expect me to say “orange” when you asked me what the temperature was- it just doesn’t make sense. The terms convey entirely different things.
I meant ‘snap,’ and I stand beside it.
Fire Pop.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 22, 2010 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
lol mercer…..( or is it …ghostown? )
Is Larry Browns contract up next season ? Even if it was, I dont see him taking the job in San Antone. He likes taking ragged squads and showing them how to play basketball. I guess the 04 pistons might be the exception. Moreover, I dont think Larry taking on the reins would sit will with Pop. I know they are friends, but this would be an admission from Pop that his former mentor could do a better job. I dont see that happening.
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
I feel like somebody has to be the one to point it out…
It’s Theo Ratliff, everyone. THEO RATLIFF!! T-H-E-O R-A-T-L-I-F-F. Am I missing something? Was this the second coming of Russell, a shot-blocking dynamo, an offensive OR defensive threat in any way? I realize that he was really good at being tall and we needed someone with those skills, but every time I log on it seems like somebody I’ve never heard of is treating the trade as though we swapped Mikan for a humidifier. And on top of that, that we should fire a certain HOF coach with this trade as one of the motivators. It was Theo Freakin’ Ratliff, folks. The same Theo that has been bounced from team to team as contract fodder only, with no regard to his “skills.” I would be more shocked if we’d traded Theo Huxtable than Theo Ratliff; at least there would be some concern over losing skills.
Get a grip, or go back to SpursTalk. There’s bigger things to be concerned about. Like how we need to trade Manu. Pull it together, people.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 21, 2010 1:39 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
THEO HAD YOUNGEVITY, LET US GRIEVE DAMN YOU!
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
I realize that he was really good at being tall and we needed someone with those skills
loved this line!
just having fun...
by day_late_friend on Feb 22, 2010 6:20 PM CST up reply actions
To SgtinManusArmy: You miss the point, man. No one is suggesting that the “HOF” coach should be sacked for trading the journeyman Ratliff, but it’s highly likely that come playoff time, should the Spurs meet the Lakers, Ratliff would have provided Duncan with more help than Bonner, the “Scalabrine of the West.” Good night all.
It also seems pretty ridiculous to say that Pop is even the one pulling the strings here. The only, I repeat ONLY reason a salary dump trade is ever made is because the demand comes from ownership. So if you want to blame one person for trading Ratliff away, it’s Peter Holt. I mean, you must know better what to do with his money than he does, right?
Don't compare RJ to Sean unless he's coming up clutch while playing with a failing kidney.
that is not true. Bonner spaces the floor and forces the opposing team’s big man to play him on the perimeter instead of being in the paint – that way Timmy has a one-on-one situation
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Feb 21, 2010 7:51 AM CST up reply actions
You really need to click on "reply", beneath each comment. Your replies will be nested below, and won’t be pushed down when someone does reply to it.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I’m trying to go to sleep but that last comment awakened me. I’m glad, Tim C., that
you’re not my CPA. Bonner makes, I believe, about 3.2 mil, compared to Ratliff’s
800 grand. What a wise salary dump! Peter Holt is the banker, but relies greatly on
Popovich and RC with respect to personnel decisions.
I’m glad I’m not your CPA, too, because by this logic, you’d probably demand me to make money appear out of thin air. Show me the team whose FO was willing to take on Bonner and his salary in this economy, since you obviously know more than the Spurs FO does about those things, even though they’re the ones who are constantly in contact with other teams every day. If they couldn’t find a home for Mason, how in the hell were they supposed to find one for a worse player in Bonner?
Don't compare RJ to Sean unless he's coming up clutch while playing with a failing kidney.
Why is Bonner worse than Mase? I think, we have 3 shooters, Bonner, Mase and Finley, and Bonner is the best of the three. None of them does much of anything else on the floor. Except Bonner’s size gives him some advantage compared to smaller Fin and Mase.
Mase has ballhandling skills, and can shoot the 3 a variety of different ways(off screens, after a ball fake), as opposed to Bonner, who is really only accurate in catch-and-shoot situations.
Fire Pop from the Spurs! Fire Bonner from basketball! Fire your mother from child-rearing!
Mase’s ballhandling is about as good as Bonner’s dunking skills. I agree that his 3s have more variety about them, but I’m not sure how exactly it helps us. Last season Mase shot some game-winners, so he was useful in that sense, but this season his only contribution is some 3s and playing PG in garbage time. I would also argue that Bonner has higher basketball IQ (for example, he is smart enough to know, which shots he has a chance to make, that’s why he only tries catch-and-shoots most of the time).
Well, I agree that Bonner is less talented than Mase, but let’s at least give him credit for sticking to his skill set 98% of the time (I’m willfully ignoring that Utah game). He does have a decent BBall IQ, and doesn’t turn the ball over. He’s just limited in his skill set. Mason is great when he plays within his role, but when he pretends to be a PG he kills the team with turnovers and chucker threes.
I think it is a fair debate over which one, given their contracts, would have been the better trade. Nonetheless, the TD has passed so this argument is pretty much irrelevant. With luck we’ll have new role-players to gripe about next season.
I admit that I’m starting to skim the comments/posts a bit more.
Its alright to upset/disappointed but some of us have gone off the deep end. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there has to come a point where some realize they’re just screaming into their own anus. Knock it off or take it somewhere else, please.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Feb 21, 2010 8:31 AM CST reply actions
Hmm yeah.
I say just kick all the irrational, no logic posters. The ones who argue with no perspective. Can’t understand the big picture. Hmmm, well kick all the ones who are dumb and can’t have a conversation without convoluting facts.
Should have been more clear. I’m talking about aggression and not the topic material on that particular comment. Hell, plenty of us don’t know what the hell were talking about sometimes (or most of the times :p).
And unless something really out-of-place happens, I never agree with banning/kicking.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Feb 21, 2010 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
You were clear. I was just voicing my thinking as an addendum to what you said. Lets just maintain the site standards of fun, articulate, reasonable, quirky, and friendly neighborhood Spurs fans.
Ah
I thought I was detecting sarcasm. I’m sure, reading and posting on this site, that can be considered a normal assumption/reaction.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Feb 21, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
If you seriously think that’s what he means, then I suggest you go through a few old threads, find someone that disagrees with LionZion, and see if he suggests that they be kicked off the site. I assure you that you won’t be able to find such a comment.
Also, thanks for using the “reply” button. It really helps us know who you’re talking to.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
One aspect of the so-called “big picture” is the indisputable scientific fact that tadpoles
morph into frogs, not princes. For a few years now, Popovich has failed to grasp that
Matt Bonner is Matt Bonner and is unlikely to ever become the reincarnation of Robert
Horry. Now he rewards this hard-working but very overmatched player by promoting him
to the starting lineup. The man has lost it completely.
C’mon, mercer. Everyone knows that tadpoles morph into frogs, not princes. It’s the frog that turns into a prince. Assuming that he gets kissed by the right princess, and has been turned from a prince into a frog by some old mean witch with a grudge.
Here’s the part where you say that Pop is the old witch, and then I say that you’re a witch. And then the food fight starts and we all wind up in detention.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
Wait, tadpoles morph into French guys? Or princes get turned into French guys by mean witches…? ’Cause I think I might have been seriously misled here.
Hilariously maladjusted. But for all the right reasons.
Hey, it’s your site.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 21, 2010 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
if it were easy to just pick-up whatever guys we wanted, the spurs would have a front line of bosh, duncan and jermaine o’neal right now. sometime, when you have a need, you get forced into signed guy #2 or #3 on the list to fill it – or it will go unfilled. and that would really be not doing your job.
You really need to click on "reply", beneath each comment. Your replies will be nested below, and won’t be pushed down when someone does reply to it.
Seriously, people, this is unreadable otherwise.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Nice post. Let’s pull it together and let’s hope for our team to do the same.
just having fun...
by day_late_friend on Feb 22, 2010 12:32 AM CST reply actions
Pull it Together--With What???
I agree with most of your statements, but the truth of the matter is that the Spurs are in dire danger of missing the playoffs this year. You can’t blame the coaches or individual players for this and I won’t There are several teams hot on SA’s tail, ie: Portland, New Orleans, Houston and even Memphis. Each of these teams are showing signs of improving and two have made recent trades that will strengthen their playoff drive. The Spurs missed that opportunity and will have to go with what they have. It will be very difficult for a physically hampered TD (knee) to carry the defense at the rim and defensive rebounding all on his own. When teams field two or more bigs against the Spurs they usually garner up a load of offensive rebounds and put backs. Even Detroit, which can’t really be considered a team with a massive front line, outworked SA on the defensive boards. As the season rolls into its final stages this weakness will become even more obvious especially against teams like LAL, Dallas, and Portland. I’m still rooting for the Spurs, but I’m a realist who recognises that the Spurs are too small and a little bit too slow to go far this year. The still have a 50/50 chance of making the playoffs, but rather than finish in the 7 or 8 spot, they would be better off missing the playoffs and go for the roll of the dice in the draft. I’m picking LAL to finish first and Dallas to grab the two spot. The big surprise so far this year — OKC.
I understand your general point, but wanted to expand on the part where you said we’d be better off missing the playoffs and going for the roll of the dice in the lottery.
I’ve heard a lot of people make that argument and I just don’t think it provides that much more benefit than getting bounced in the 1st round. (Believe me, I’m rooting hard for the Spurs to go as far as possible, but for this comment’s sake, I’m assuming it’s either no playoffs or 1st round exit). I don’t have the statistics, but I can’t imagine that a team who is supposed to draft in the 10-14 range has, by “the luck of the draw,” had their draft position altered by 5 or so spots. So what is the difference between drafting 14th or 18th? The caliber of player is going to be relatively equal and they would have to pay them a higher rookie salary because of the higher pick.
By making the playoffs, the franchise will get themselves a few home games worth of revenue. And since we all agree Peter Holt pushed all in this season, the extra money for him would hopefully encourage him to keep spending money, and not cut expenses. Plus, if we’re in the playoffs, we could actually win a series or 2. It doesnt’ quite look like it now, but you never know if things might click and the team puts together a run.
See this here? This is what I’m talking about. This is pulling it together: thinking about the situation rationally, analyzing the alternatives, wondering about the outcome, and finding what possible silver lining there might be.
GMac, welcome to the site. Everybody else — this is how it’s done.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go see about laser removal for the “Spurs suck!!!” tatoo I got while in a depressed stupor after last night’s loss to Daytwah.
The intanglibles are with us tonite…its just those dang tangibles lke making shots and playing defense - bones
Thanks JRW. I appreciate it.
I had another comment that I was going to branch off of this, but it went way too long, so I’m going to use it as a fanpost. It’s going to be my first one, so hopefully you won’t replace your “Spurs suck!!!” tattoo, with a “GMac14’s fanpost’s suck” tattoo.
I love this thread now. We started out kind of wary, me and this thread, circling, hackles raised, but now we’re sleeping in a big soft pile like puppies.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
I did a long answering-to-myself thread but it was deleted. I figured bread was a safe subject.
But yes, the atmosphere is getting way better.
To serve man.
Gustatus similis pullus.
I was able to read that answering-to-yourself thingy along with somebody else’s post.
just having fun...
by day_late_friend on Feb 23, 2010 2:40 AM CST up reply actions
What did you think? I think I had like one or two funny lines but it was a little too heavy-handed.
To serve man.
Gustatus similis pullus.
I think it was cool. I am now wondering why it was deleted. That and somebody else’s post. Am I missing something? Must be a day late again.
just having fun...
by day_late_friend on Feb 23, 2010 2:52 AM CST up reply actions
hmmm…. was it perhaps a reply to one of the man GhosTown reincarnations? That might explain why it’s gone.
Fire Pop from the Spurs! Fire Bonner from basketball! Fire your mother from child-rearing!
It’s always funny to me how people think they can trick you guys after they’re banned. They act pious and mighty, as though they don’t secretly need PtR, but then quickly log back in under another name in the hopes that they’ll slide under your radar. “Well, I changed my NAME, so they should never catch on to that.”
It’s such a blessing when people just get the hint, and no violent action is needed.
:: ahem, ahem Eight-Oh-Sicks-Phive ahem, ahem ::
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 23, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
I’m sure Cap could recommend a good CO therapist for you.
Fire Pop from the Spurs! Fire Bonner from basketball! Fire your mother from child-rearing!
Are you saying something like:
Acid-wash is to jeans
as
SiMA-subjected is to therapists
Rest the Croissant!
Replace “therapists” with “human beings” for further accuracy.
Fire Pop from the Spurs! Fire Bonner from basketball! Fire your mother from child-rearing!
Why? Just… why? I’ve always been so kind to you.
You cut me deep, rik. You cut me real deep.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 23, 2010 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
Its especially easy to spot them when their name is NAME and they change it to NAME or to _NAME
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
by LasEspuelas on Feb 23, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Nope, it was a thread in itself, though while I was posting GhosTown also had a post.
To serve man.
Gustatus similis pullus.
It wasn’t a reply to _GhostTown_’s post. Hipuks was talking to himself about zsdoljeiurhruieyujwpwkfh.
just having fun...
by day_late_friend on Feb 23, 2010 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
Oh thank you, I thought I had lost my mind. I was on when that was posted then it was gone.
I was going to post a saying my Daddy told me when I was a snarky know it all teenager.
If one person calls you an ass, don’t worry about it. If several people do, look for your tail sweetheart, it’s there!
He was right, as always.
Timmy D .... enough said.
My guess is that GT didn’t have anyone in his life who was fond of that particular aphorism.
Gotta admire his determination, though.
Rest the Croissant!
That’s funny.
AND also made me think about something that I’ve recently realized about my writing. I tend to (especially in email) begin a lot of my sentences with an understood I.
As in, “Just wanted to let you know that…” and “Was wondering whether you were…”
Anybody do this much? Or care at all?
Rest the Croissant!
Yes, do it all the time. Especially in work email when I’m trying to sound idiomatically collegial rather than officiously dictatorial.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Lauri…you, have a tail?? Absolutely not. Even if you did, the flying monkeys would prevent any one from daring to mention it!
I need to get some of those flying monkeys, bet they’re handy to have around.
Timmy D .... enough said.
Hee hee, I meant “do I have to admire his determination.”
I can’t recommend the flying monkeys highly enough. Bella knows this lady with a nice supply of them if you want some of your own!
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
I had the privilege of seeing it developing live. Quite an experience. You are right about the heavy handed.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
I was thinking Fourth Quarter Comeback but whatever suits your taste is fine. : )
just having fun...
by day_late_friend on Feb 23, 2010 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
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