Game 18 Recap: I'm Even More Tired Than They Were
by Aaronstampler on Dec 2, 2010 4:52 AM CST
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Game 18, @ LA: Clippers 90-85 (Record 15-3) RAGE: +3
2:53 a.m., ugh. I really mean it this time, I'm not gonna spend too much time on this one.
Frankly, I'm not all that upset we lost. If you are, I kinda question your intelligence. The guys were just flat out exhausted. Ran up and down too much the night before at Oakland. If the schedule was reversed and we played the Clippers first, we'd have beaten them -- actually more like slaughtered them -- and gone down the next night at Oakland. The only difference is then Stampler would've been sad, so I'm glad it worked out the way it did. I do have a couple of predictable concerns, but they're more off the court things than on, and we'll get to them after the jump.
First, we have more important business to discuss...
(via 9ftofSmoke)
That's right, ladies and germs, it's time to hand out the PtR Spurs MVP of the Month award for November! Yay! As you're aware, November was a very successful month for the Spurs, as they went 14-1 and raped and pillaged their way to impressive road wins at Phoenix, Oklahoma City, Utah and New Orleans, while also defending their honor at home against the likes of Orlando and Chicago. They entered December a league-best 15-2, which was about four games better than I thought they'd be, and I was more optimistic than most of you.
If you don't know - and why should you since I just thought of the formula 15 minutes ago - the method for figuring out the monthly MVP is to give one point for every third star earned during the month, three points for every second star and five points for every first star. Makes sense, right? Of course it does. It's completely scientific and not at all arbitrary.
So the Manu Ginobili Trophy for PtR Spurs MVP of the for the month of November goes to...
you guessed it! MANOOOOOOOOH GEENOHBEELEEEEEEEEE.
:: crowd goes wild::
Manu led the Spurs in October/November with 41 Three Stars points, easily out-distancing second place finisher Timmeh the Golden God who had 27 and The Philandering Frenchman who had 21.
Here are the complete results:
10/28 Vs. Ind W 1-0 1. Tim (5) 2. Manu (3) 3. Hill (1).
10/30 Vs. NO L 1-1 1. RJ (5) 2. Hill (4) 3. Neal (1).
11/1 @ LAC W 2-1 1. Neal (6) 2. RJ (8) 3. Dice (1).
11/3 @ Phx W 3-1 1. Tim (10) 2. RJ (11) 3. Manu (4).
11/6 Vs. Hou W 4-1 1. Tony (5) 2. Manu (7) 3. Dice (2).
11/8 @ Cha W 5-1 1. Neal (11) 2. Manu (10) 3. Tim (11).
11/10 Vs. LAC W 6-1 1. Tiago (5) 2. Anderson (3) 3. Tony (6).
11/13 Vs. Phi W 7-1 1. Tony (11) 2. Blair (3) 3. Manu (11).
11/14 @ OKC W 8-1 1. Rocket (5) 2. Manu (14) 3. Hill (5).
11/17 Vs. Chi W 9-1 1. Tim (16) 2. Manu (17) 3. Rocket (6).
11/19 @ Uta W 10-1 1. Tim (21) 2. Tony (14) 3. Blair (4).
11/20 Vs. Cle W 11-1 1. Tiago (10) 2. Manu (20) 3. Tony (15).
11/22 Vs. Orl W 12-1 1. Manu (25) 2. Tony (18) 3. Rocket (7).
11/24 Vs. Min W 13-1 1. Manu (30) 2. Tony (21) 3. Neal (12).
11/26 Vs. Dal L 13-2 1. Hill (10) 2. Manu (33) 3. Tim (22).
11/28 @ NO W 14-2 1. Manu (38) 2. Hill (15) 3. RJ (12)
11/30 @ GS W 15-2 1. Tim (27) 2. Manu (41) 3. Blair (5).
Totals: Manu 41, Tim 27, Tony 21, Hill 15, Neal 12, RJ 12, Tiago 10, Rocket 7, Blair 5, Anderson 3, Dice 2.
1st Star: Tim 5, Manu 3, Neal 2, Tiago 2, Tony 2, Hill, RJ, Rocket.
2nd Star: Manu 8, Tony 3, Hill 2, RJ 2, Anderson, Blair.
3rd Star: Blair 2, Dice 2, Hill 2, Manu 2, Neal 2, Rocket 2, Tim 2, Tony 2, RJ.
Did you know that Antonio McDyess has been less valuable this season than James Anderson? Well my scientific data says it's so. Deal with it.
For those of you nerds who want some hard core proof of Manu's Manu-ness, his numbers for November were 21.8 points per game on 49% shooting, including 41.4% from downtown and 89.9% from the charity stripe. He also averaged 4.9 helpers, 3.9 boards and 2.0 steals. His PER as at 25.88, which would easily be a career-high for him if he maintained that pace (*SPOILER ALERT* NOT GONNA HAPPEN) and he's third in the league, but first among shooting guards, fobs and players who Bellasa would totally bone*. I asked John Hollinger in a chat if Manu is his MVP for November and he had him second behind somebody named "Dwight Howard," whoever that is.
* I could be wrong about this, but I don't think I am.
Again, a round of applause for Manu. Let him hear it.
Okay, now that that's out of the way, let's briefly discuss our Washington Generals impersonation against the Clips. As I stated above, the guys were gassed. I don't blame Ginobili for anything (it would be plain rude to do so when we just handed him an award) and SEGABABA performances like these illustrate why Timmeh should probably just skip them altogether because him actually playing accomplishes so little.
His stats for three SEGABABAs:
11/14 @ OKC 23 min, 6 pts, 2-7 FG, 2-4 FT, 4 rebs, 1 asst, 3 blk, 0 stl, 0 TO.
11/20 Vs. Cle 17 min, 8 pts, 3-9 FG, 2-2 FT, 3 rebs, 5 assts, 1 blk, 0 stl, 1 TO.
12/1 @ LAC 31 min, 8 pts, 2-8 FG, 4-4 FT, 5 rebs, 3 assts, 1 blk, 1 stl, 3 TO.
Avg 23.6 min, 7.3 pts, 7-24 FG (29.1%), 8-10 FT (80%), 4.0 rebs, 3.0 assts, 1.6 blks, 0.3 stls, 1.3 TOs.
Analysis: Not good.
So forget them two. Let's talk about Tony. It doesn't matter that he's been in the league forever. He's still only 28. He is healthy. He had all summer to rest. We need him to carry us through the regular season in general and SEGABABAs in particular. No matter what is going on with his personal life, it is INEXCUSABLE for him to play this terribly, this effortlessly.
The past four games he's been in a complete fog on the court, as if he'd rather be anywhere and doing anything besides playing. He is sloppy, unfocused, way too willing to defer and float and indecisive. He was awful against Dallas, sharper at New Orleans though not aggressive, so-so at Oakland and flat out abysmal tonight.
In his past four games Tony's averaging 7.25 points on 32.5% shooting (13-of-40), with 5 assists and 2.5 turnovers per game. When has a healthy Parker ever played four full games and averaged only 10 shot attempts per? Something is definitely wrong with him. It's not "he's looking to get others involved" or "he's deferring to a red-hot Manu."
He is simply not with us.
The Spurs were down 48-40 after a miserable final six minutes of the second quarter where they couldn't do anything right on either end of the floor, and you know Pop was on them to jump out to a good start in the second half, as has been our norm. What does Tony do? dribbledribbledribbledribbledribble before telegraphing a post entry that Blake Griffin easily intercepted and turned into a layup the other way. An exasperated Pop motioned for Hill to check in for him immediately before cooler heads prevailed, but it didn't matter. He yanked Tony soon after an he was done for the night with 9:32 to go in the third quarter.
Whatever's wrong with Tony right now is mental, not physical, and it's obvious that he is not communicating his problems with Pop, or being dishonest at the very least. I don't think I'm starting a conspiracy theory to suggest his issues are related to his recent divorce. Maybe he was in denial for a few days and the weight of what's happening to him finally hit home a week ago. He looks like a broken, empty vessel of a man. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if he took a leave from the team to get his head right, or if the team requested it - perhaps demanded it - of him. Pop is generally a sympathetic figure with his players, especially ones like Tony he has a long history with, but he will not tolerate, for any reason, a guy who isn't playing hard on the floor.
Tony needs to figure out a way to leave his problems at home and get back to being his regular self on the court, and he needs to do so immediately. Enough is enough. He got his ass kicked by a bloated Baron Davis and didn't even try to score against him, when he should've left Boom-Dizzle in the dust. Hopefully we'll see a different Parker on Friday night. Maybe he'll respond to some home cheers.
Aside from Frenchy, the main other principal on our side worth discussing was Rocket. I know it's fashionable to hate him right now, but honestly I don't know why anyone would be upset with him. What did he do wrong, exactly? On defense Pop had him guarding a guy who is so much bigger, faster and stronger than him that he might as well be a different species. Griffin can practically jump over Bonner's head. Bonner guarded him as well as he possibly could and his only mistake, if anything was that he probably didn't foul Griffin enough.
Rocket rebounded well on both ends and on offense he took six wide open shots. It's not like he tried to miss them on purpose. He took the shots he was supposed to take. What good would he be to anyone if he passed them up? It's a credit to his development that he kept taking them. A couple years ago if Bonner missed his first two shots, he'd shut it down for the night and play hot potato with the ball before being mercifully benched. At least now he has some confidence, which is the most important thing.
As both a fan and a reporter, I always wrestle with the philosophical debate of what is fair game to criticize about a player and what isn't. Bonner did not lack effort and didn't have any mental breakdowns. He wasn't soft or lazy or selfish or whatever other character flaws we assign athletes. He was just bad. Do we get upset with him for being bad? Are we entitled to, when he's trying as hard as he can?
The columnists I know have no problem with this dilemma. They don't deal in sentiment. For them full effort and professionalism isn't something to be applauded in athletes but rather what should be the norm. They tell me this isn't little league. If a guy sucks then it's okay to say he sucks. As long as you don't get personal, any criticism of things that happen between the lines is fair game.
I'm curious to read what y'all feel about this.
Anyway the Clips. I wasn't impressed by them. At all. I think the Spurs were caught a bit flatfooted that Davis decided to launch his comeback against them. He made a difference against an uninspired Parker. Griffin is obviously a sensational talent, a guy with Karl Malone's body, LeBron's athleticism and Amar'e Stoudemire's single-minded determination to want to dunk everything. He's just nasty right now and once he learns how to shoot a 15-footer, he'll be completely unguardable.
Still, I don't like him. He's a bully. He looks like a bully and he plays like one. He's arrogant. There is no humility, no "aw shucks" in him at all. He's great and he knows he's great, and he treats the other players on the court, even the opposition who are ten-year veterans, perennial All-Stars and future Hall-of-Famers without the least bit of respect. He gestures to the refs and whines about calls like an entitled brat. Maybe he thinks the year he spent on the shelf injured means he doesn't pay his dues, but that's baloney. He's a punk.
I was disappointed that we weren't more aggressive with him. We should've fouled him hard a couple of times. Not in a dirty, flagrant way, but just to let him know we were there. Letting any guy get seven dunks on you is inexcusable and I'm surprised Pop stood for it. Maybe his CIA brain thought, "Screw it, we're gonna lose anyway, let him dunk all he wants against us so he'll have less incentive to develop his game."
Who the hell knows?
Your three stars:
3. Gary Neal - Played hard, competed, made some shots to keep the team in the game. He does not always play smart, but he is not afraid and it 's very easy to see why Pop's warmed up to him right away.
2. Manu Ginobili - His tank was almost completely empty, but he did all he could in this one. Could've had 12, 13 assists, he kept setting up guys for wide open shots. He might have had his legs in the fourth if he got some help earlier in the game.
1. George Hill - It sure would be something if we could get him and Tony to play well at the same time. Hill was about the only guy we had who played a lick of defense. We played nekkid with him running the show and it didn't even go that badly.
Up Next: Friday, Vs. Minnesota (4-14). They got killed today at Dallas and they're 1-9 on the road. Hopefully after this game we'll be up for them from the beginning and won't let them get out to a 20 point lead. Holding Darko-Love to under 45-30 would be nice too. Start of a long home stand. So much for that 22-2 start, eh?
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Well, yes. In the big scheme of things, this was a game to lose. We’ve won more than we thought we would, and although it’s sad to have a loss against a clearly inferior opponent, it’s largely inconsequential. That said, when I stay up till 3 AM, they’d better win.
I don’t blame Bonner for his lack of D. And I’m sure he tries hard (I’d try hard too if I was paid millions of dollars). But he’s there to shoot and make triples. When he doesn’t, he’s useless. My frustration is a bit with him, but mostly with Pop, that chose him over Tiago. Regardless of how many ticky tacky fouls Tiago got, I wanted him on the court.
I’m not sure about Griffin’s arrogance. “Looks like a bully” means nothing, and I didn’t see any obviously arrogant displays. Complains about calls? I think Timmy was born with that gene, too. Anyway, we’ll get to know him in time. I’m sure Woj will tell us if he turns out to be a bully.
I smell death... everywhere.
by LatinD on Dec 2, 2010 7:01 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I’m with LD in this one about Bonner. When his shot’s not falling, I’d rather have someone who can at least make an impact on defense. And if Pop was okay with losing this game, he could’ve thrown Splitter out there longer to get some quality time against a quality big like Griffin. Or could’ve played Blair more. I don’t know. Going 0-fer-6 is pretty abysmal.
"A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It’s what happens while you wait for moments that will never come." - Lester Freamon, The Wire
by silverandblack_davis on Dec 2, 2010 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
I am a big Bonner defender but i agree here as well. not with the useless part. matt spreads the floor and is there to shoot. he made all the right decisions and i wouldn’t pull him after just a few shots (confidence being and issue maybe) but at some point if you are saying we are not trying to loss but don’t really care about this one then PUT IN SPLITTER.
i dont blame bonner for having a bad night shooting but the point is hit or miss we know what he is and what he brings to the table. if this was a throw away game or once it looked like it might have become one, get Splitter in there. I’m not saying empty the bench entirely, but get him out there with a line up you like and get him some reps!
I will tell you so much..I was at the game and once Tiago got a few quick fouls, he was disappointed and wasn’t keen on asserting himself. It felt like he was frustrated and was thinking only about that instead of playing the game. Many a times, he turned to Manu and Manu urged him to continue playing but he couldn’t. Probably, Pop saw this and hence let Bonner play. But what I don’t understand is, why not play Blair or Dice?
Keep the faith!!
I still leave him out there and see if he plays out of it or disappears…we gotta find this out and work him in or see if he has it. i have no problem with bonner at all but i really want to see splitter in more. even in games where he seems to be doing well statistically or otherwise we seem to see so little of him and a few dnps!
Take 5 min a game from dice/blair, 5 form bonner and 5 from timmy and lets see what splitter has. or just sit timmy on back to backs and give splitter alittle more there. against good team against bad team against good match ups and bad.
The last few games it seems like by the time he figures it out and is relaxed out there he is done for the night (if he wasn’t going to go last night and pop saw that fine but i don’t believe this has been the case in most games and i still say pop should throw him back out and see how he reacts).
What makes you think that Pop wasn’t trying to win the game? They lost by only 5 points, and if Bonner had made rather than missed his last couple of shots it might have been a win. Blake was scoring at a rate of more than a point per minute vs. Blair, and about half that rate with Bonner.
Splitter, whether the calls were deserved or not, had picked up 3 shooting fouls in just over 7 minutes. Griffin scored 5 points during Tiago’s 7+minutes despite missing 3 of 4 FTs that he received off Tiago’s fouls.
im not saying we were not trying to win, but gino was totally gassed, timmy has played like crap on back to backs and tony was sitting the last 18min. this looks like a perfect game to get splitter in there. when would it be a better game to get him in. a high energy young team when we are coming off a back to back is the worse situation for us. once you see gino and timmy don’t have it and tony you are sitting, this is the best chance to get neal and splitter in there to see what they got.
so he had 3 fouls in 7min…if his play was decent he could stay in see if he fouls out in 14min and its a learning exp. he needs to get in there at some point because he is our best shot! tim and dice need to pace them selves and bonner is a specialist, and blair is a liability due to his height…maybe splitter isnt the answer but until we get him out there we wont know and this looked like the time to get him out there
As far as Bonners def it was fine as far as i could tell given the grif is a beast! he did at least as well as any one else we had. again im a HUGE bonner defender on this forum but i am also hoping splitter is for real and want to see it any time now pop
Splitter had one in for Duncan with 7:37 left in the third quarter. He played until the quarter ended. Tim started in his place and played the entire fourth quarter, having had some 10+ minutes of rest. Besides Tim, Hill played the entire 4th quarter. Jefferson was rested the last few minutes of the third and the first few minutes of the 4th while Neal was in. Bonner played all but a few minutes of the 4th quarter when McDyess game him some rest. Manu played for all but 2 minutes of the 4th when Neal was in. I think Pop was still trying to win the game with what he felt was his best lineup at the time. It didn’t work out, and in retrospect it’s easy to say that he should not have played the guys with tired legs.
If you know in advance Matt will shoot 0-6, then obviously you sit him and play Splitter or someone. But you don’t know that in advance. You don’t even know that after he’s 0-3. He’s capable of knocking the next three down. He’s had games where he’s missed the first three or four and then been the difference-maker in the 4th quarter.
by doggydogworld on Dec 2, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
That’s a great point. I often hear people say “his shot just isn’t falling tonight,” when in fact, they mean “he has missed his shots thus far.” Statistically speaking, his next shot would have just as good a chance of going in as any other shot. People just want to see patterns in what is effectively randomness from a ~40% shooter, and say that he’s hot or cold on a given night. He wouldn’t be any hotter than a coin that landed on heads a few times in a row, or a blackjack table where you’d won a few hands.
Shooters aren’t coin tosses, they are people. People don’t fit the hypothesis of a Bernoulli process. No shot is identical to the last shot, and they’re not independent unless the player is able to forget he even took another shot that game.
Cold and hot streak are mostly psychological, I imagine.
I smell death... everywhere.
Agreed. But in the regular season it is probably good to leave someone in to see if he is able to break out of the slump and get back in the zone, and also to get them some experience in situations like that. Pop still cares more about lessons and tweaking than winning at this stage, though it has been nice to get both.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
Yep, I am somewhat disappointed how little we have seen of the Brazilian delight. Not sure if Pop is bringing him in slowly so he does not get overwhelmed, or if he is worried about milage, or is just plain old being Pop.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
Personally, I think cold and hot streaks are figments of our imagination, to be honest. Look, I’ve played basketball, and there are days where it feels like every shot is going to go in and the rim is huge. But I’ve also had days where my shot felt good but it just wasn’t going in, days where my shot felt bad yet I was making them, and everything in between.
It sounds like your hypothesis could be simplified to something like “a shooter is more likely to make the next shot if he made his last shot.” I’ve read enough studies that show that there is simply no evidence of this occurring, regardless of our intuition that it should be so.
Well, then it should be statistically verifiable. Something to look into. Basic probability seems to indicate that a 50% 3 point specialist going 0-6 on any given night has a 1,56% chance of happening. If there’s no psychological factor to consider, then we were really unlucky.
Something to look into.
I smell death... everywhere.
Probably a little higher, if you believe Bonner is a 40% shooter, it would go up to 4%. So let’s say it’s somewhere between 2-4%; that means it would happen once or twice a season. How often does Bonner go 0-6? I’m guessing that hasn’t happened in quite a while. I’ll see if I can dig up some of the articles relating to hot/cold shooting, “clutch” shooting, and so forth.
Okay, I’m doing ,4*,4*,4*,4*,4*,4 and I’m getting 0,4%, 10 times smaller. But it’s 1 AM and I’m very tired, so there’s my excuse. Or are you considering interdependency?
I smell death... everywhere.
0.4^6 = 0.004 = 0.4% and represents the odds of a 40% shooter making all six shots.
0.6^6 = 0.047 = 4.7% is the odds of missing all six shots.
BTW, Matt’s 7-7 night vs. OKC was a 0.6% occurrence. You’d expect to see that once every 600+ games. So far Matt has played 443 games, which is in the right ballpark.
by doggydogworld on Dec 4, 2010 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
Ugh. You’re right, doggy. As I said, it was late, and my first estimate had been with 50%.
I smell death... everywhere.
NNNNNEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDSSSSSS
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
by Aaronstampler on Dec 4, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
BTW, Matt’s 7-7 night vs. OKC was a 0.6% occurrence.
Grrrrrrr. Nothing like ruining an anal retentive masterpiece with a typo. Should be 0.16%. Which is roughly once in 600 games, as noted.
by doggydogworld on Dec 5, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
People do fit Bernoulli’s hypothesis, Daveed.
Yo Baby! is as scientific as it gets and it completely depends on womens emotional responses.
I guess we’ll have to re-teach you.
"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo
Of course we can’t predict the future, and I agree that somehow, Bonner still might get hot and shoot us to a win. But in a game where almost everyone seemed tired and their shots affected by fatigue, why keep on playing him heavy minutes? Splitter and Dice didn’t play much vs. Golden State, why not try to get some fresh legs out there to spark the team?
"A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It’s what happens while you wait for moments that will never come." - Lester Freamon, The Wire
by silverandblack_davis on Dec 2, 2010 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
I think everybody would be fine with Bonner bricking it if the other team didn’t score on him. Putting him on Blake was a bad idea.
i think it was stated in the recap but bonner wasn’t any worse then anyone else we put on blake…watching the game without seeing the results i thought he did well and the stats seem to support this.
Sorry about that.
"White-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown"
by magnuskrauss on Dec 3, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
Right there with you about Bonner. I want more Tiago. I think Pop needs to protect him from the refs. Tiago is getting ticky tack calls on him all over the place but he can’t really do anything about it, the refs don’t respect him and they seem to be picking on him whether it’s intentional or not, who knows but it’s no secret that stars, rookies, vets, journey men all receive a different amount of respect from the refs. Pop needs to go nuts on the refs every time they call a BS foul on Tiago so he can play aggresively with out any draw backs.
"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo
79-3 still on the table!
Great recap, as always. I too am starting to get worried about Tony, and am thinking that this would be a good week for George to take over starting PG duties.
With the personnel we have now, I sort of agree with bringing Tony in off the bench. Manu/RJ have a greater comfort level with each other than Tony/RJ, and the Blair/Manu PnR is well documented around these parts as well. Tony would be an absolute terror coming off the bench to abuse other teams’ second units, and he’d have the shooters that make him more effective(Bonner, Neal) playing alongside him more often.
MANU GINOBILI Cares not for your humanity --Bushka
Tony has never seemed to be a “i dont mind coming off the bench” guy…last year coming back from injury he was fine but overall i think there is a reason pop always goes to manu for this.
He could be just going through a through stretch (weather it has anything to do with his personal life or his ankle or just not feeling it right now) IF he is having personal problems you never know if moving him to the bench could back fire and he could get worse.
May be it would wake up Tony if he would start coming from the bench. Either that or he needs to take some time off to clear his head.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
Griffin scored around 17 of his 31 points during the 15 minutes that Blair was matched up against him. In the other 24 minutes Griffin played, much of which had Bonner on him, he scored 14 points. Blair had 3 fouls in his 15 minutes, Tiago 3 fouls in 7.5 minutes, McDyess 2 fouls in 13 minutes, and Bonner only 1 foul in about 30 minutes. Stampler seems pretty accurate in his assessment of Bonner. It’s easy to say at the end of the game that he missed all of his 3’s, but each shot looked like it could have gone.
Spurs have been making their bread with the three, and winning a lot of games, so when there is a statistically predictable hiccup, I’m not going to demand Bonner’s head on a Subway wrap.
I disagree that Tony’s problem is mental". He played like a demon all season at both ends, including five games after the divorce rumors hit. Then, after 41+ minutes in Minnesota, he died. Can’t penetrate, can’t finish, can’t defend. I fear his plantar fasciitis has returned. That’s extremely bad news because this year we rely completely on Tony and Manu to push the ball in transition and to penetrate and get the defense out of position in half-court sets. Manu can’t carry that load by himself.
Rocket rebounded well on both ends and on offense he took six wide open shots. It’s not like he tried to miss them on purpose. He took the shots he was supposed to take. What good would he be to anyone if he passed them up? It’s a credit to his development that he kept taking them. A couple years ago if Bonner missed his first two shots, he’d shut it down for the night and play hot potato with the ball before being mercifully benched. At least now he has some confidence, which is the most important thing.
This is an excellent paragraph, and it really sums up the dilemma between minutes for Tiago or Bonner (and to a lesser extent Dice).
Usually the only time a Spurs fan is going to credit Bonner with playing well is when it’s undeniably obvious. If there’s any doubt in his performance, we’re usually not going to give him the benefit of it.
In this Clips game, though, I thought he was playing well for the circumstances and his threes gave us a decent chance to win the game. It’s a shame that him and Manu weren’t able to cash in the looks they got, but that’s math I’m willing to live or die by.
by greyberger on Dec 2, 2010 3:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I thought he did pass up one or two open looks from behind the arc in the second half, and was wondering why the h3!! he was on the floor if he wasn’t going to take them. And I’m sorry to say, RJ 2.0 too… he got the ball kicked out to him behind the 3 pt. line on a Spurs offensive rebound and didn’t take the shot. He passed the ball away, the Spurs burned some clock looking for a better shot, and the ball wound back up in RJ’s hands for an inferior contested long two. It was that kinda night….
Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.
Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Dec 2, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Bonner has an open shot at one point from the wing, and passed the ball to Udoka(SERIOUSLY?!) in the corner, who predictably clanked it.
MANU GINOBILI Cares not for your humanity --Bushka
At least Neal seems to have gone back to shooting without fear when given open looks.
Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.
Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Dec 2, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
Great recap… agree with you that something’s up with TP. Maybe it’s divorce-related, maybe something else is about to surface, but he’s not the same guy who started this season. That guy woulda torched Baron for a dozen or more before Davis would have to sit down to try to catch his breath. Not sure why Pop didn’t have Hill take on Baron and force him to defend, but it is what it is.
(btw, if you thought the Spurs might lose, should they lose a RAGE point? Just asking.)
Nothing good to take away from this game, quite frankly. Yeah, it was a SEGABABA and a THIGAFONI, and maybe the Slippers were due after 18-straight losses. But those are just excuses. Went to bed sick to my stomach (or maybe it’s the flu) about the team’s poor shooting (Slips held them to 85 points, are you kidding me?), abysmal defense (it was like the Warriors game, in reverse… Slips got to the rim at will), and overall suckiness (suckitude?). The best thing I can think of was that there were a few Spurs battling to the very end (in addition to Manu, who would continue to fight on with both legs in traction and his arms tied behind his back), and that they only lost by 5 despite playing so badly.
Well, the sun still did come up this morning, and really, nothing’s different aside from the fact that there’s no possibility that the Spurs can have an 80-win season this year and a new resolve on my part not to underestimate any future Spurs opponent, even one like the Slippers. Well, that and likelihood that Pop has reamed out the team with a few choice ones after last night.
It could be worse… Lakers are on a four-game losing streak, for example. And the Spurs get the Twolves next… still a THIGAFONI, and a TARP, but I suspect our guys in Silver and Black will remember the game up in Minnesota that they nearly lost (and frankly, one the Twolves shoulda won) and not underestimate them again. In addition, no doubt they’ll be angry about last night’s debacle and will want to redeem themselves. They had better.
Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.
Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.
by freshtunarightofftheboat on Dec 2, 2010 3:16 PM CST reply actions
Look I’m a huge fan too but we are going to loss at least a few games a year that maybe we shouldn’t have. Even the worst teams get hot sometime and its a long season. not trying to make excuses but everyone losses games like this. travel and fatigue are and issue and it happened to everyone. You should go to sleep literally sick to your stomach over a loss like this :P
Awesome recap as always. I totally agree about Bonner, you have to leave a guy like him in there and hope he starts making them. If he gets timid, yank him, but he was hustling, going after rebounds, and taking shots when open. I actually like Blake though, it is pretty impressive how he keeps hustling away even when on a hopeless karmicly doomed team.
I would have preferred it if Pop had taken Timmy and Manu out when they were obviously too gassed to be useful. Maybe he was making sure the team understands their limitations and does not get too cocky?
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
It would be great if Hill did play well while everybody else (specifically Tony) was also playing well.
It may be one or two things, or a combination of factors, but it may be that George is just following Pop’s instructions to the letter.
Pop: “Go score” → George looks for his shots, but defends well.
Pop: “Guard X” → George pesters the hell out of Player X, but does not actively look for his shot.
Or maybe George just defers a lot to the older guys. Or his personal priority is defending first, scoring second, and takes a lot of scolding from Pop just to make him reverse his priorities.
Hill’s success last year has resulted in everyone having expectations that are too high instead of appreciating what we have. He is not a superstar and probably will not be, but is a pretty good role player. I agree that he cannot do all things well at the same time, but at least he can do them all, and hopefully will improve at multitasking once it is all more natural for him.
Lauri: thank goodness I have you magnificent bastards to waste [the offseason] with.
Thanks, Stampler. I agree with Pop’s decision to leave Bonner in. I suspect he’s showing Matty that confidence is, in a strange way, a matter of faith. It can’t be turned on and off. You have to have it during the dry spells, not just when you can make it rain. And confidence starts with the coach. How’s a player who isn’t left in to keep taking his shot going to be able to maintain his confidence?
It wasn’t long ago that Pop said this (in reference to another player, but I think it applies overall):
At the next stoppage of play, Popovich collared his newest player and told him his airball had been a great look at the basket and to keep shooting, without hesitation.
"He’s got to understand, if you care at all, it’s not going in," Popovich said. "You’ve got to just let it fly and not worry about the consequences."
And as doggydogworld said,
If you know in advance Matt will shoot 0-6, then obviously you sit him and play Splitter or someone. But you don’t know that in advance. You don’t even know that after he’s 0-3. He’s capable of knocking the next three down. He’s had games where he’s missed the first three or four and then been the difference-maker in the 4th quarter.
I don’t necessarily agree with the assessment of TP, but I don’t have a better explanation, either. I’m still in the “wait and see” camp. He was SO. GOOD. to start off with—I didn’t expect him to be able to maintain that pace, but it’s also true that he’s fallen off rather sharply. Having been through an amicable divorce that was nevertheless incredibly painful myself, all I can do is thank Christ it wasn’t covered by the national media. . . .
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
I didn’t watch this game (NBA league blockout for some twisted reason), but I was very impressed with Bonner’s play in previous games. I think, Bonner’s stellar play is a big reason for great start of the season. Neal’s play is another big reason. My five stars for the season so far would be 1. Manu 2. RJ 3. Rocket 4. Timmeh 5. Neal in this order.
"We lost so many games that we shouldn't have lost," - Ginobili, May 2010
No love for what Tony was doing before the last week or so?
MANU GINOBILI Cares not for your humanity --Bushka
Indeed. Tony was arguably our best player through the first 14 games.
by doggydogworld on Dec 3, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
We are so deep and good so its hard to say with everyone seeming to step up at different times. i still think clearly tim, tony, manu have to be the top 3 in some order and i always acknowledge that im bias and manu is always the man and never thought TOO much of tony. neal and bonner may have been more important in a few games of note but tony has big in every one of the first 10-12 games even if he wasn’t the biggest star of the game.
I have never been a big tony fan but to say bonner or neal is a bigger or more important to the team seems a little weird. Both have had games where they were huge in a win but that’s only 2-3 games each. Even with his last few duds tony is still our 2nd leading scorer and still is at or really close to his career high in assists. Again not even a fan here but he has to be 3 or maybe if you really like RJ 4th.
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