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Recap Game 4: Yay, The Suns Stink Again

Game 4, @ Phoenix: Spurs 112-110      (Record 3-1)     RAGE: 0

  Brian Wilson (via keithbergh007)

 

23 turnovers? Holy FSM are we awful. Fortunately, the Suns are worse. Join me after the jump so we can put some lipstick on this pig, won't you?

 

 

Star-divide

It's foolish at best and dangerous at worst to make wildly contradictory statements, where your opinions of the team and its various components fluctuate wildly from game to game. Yet I feel kinda silly about going a tad overboard espousing the defensive prowess of our three rookies in the Clippers recap. I really should've been more cognizant of the fact that the next game on the schedule was against the Suns, knowing full well that if there's any team out there that can make inexperienced defenders look bad it's Phoenix. I'm guilty of focusing mainly on the Giants portion of the post since there was so much history to cover and so many emotions to sort through that by the time I got to the basketball part I just kind of slap-dashed something together and the analysis wasn't as sharp as it could've been.

 

The Suns pick-and-roll is simply devastating, regardless of whether Steve Nash or Goran Dragic is quarterbacking it. They execute it with such precision that it's hard for even veteran defenders to slow it down, let alone rookies. Tiago, Neal and Anderson all struggled mightily on defense but they were hardly alone in that regard. Even second year guys such as Blair and Temple were completely confounded by the P&R, to the point where we couldn't afford to have them in the game in the second half, once Nash really got rolling.

If you've read me over the years you're aware I throw compliments Amare Stoudemire's way about as often as I throw manhole covers, but believe me when I tell you this - and it gives me absolutely no pleasure to do so - but if Amare was still on the Suns tonight we would've gotten completely run out of the gym by the third quarter. We were horrendous defending the P&R and the only thing that saved us was A) Pop having to play Dice far more minutes than he would've preferred, B) the Suns attempting to use goofy Robin Lopez as their roller on some plays instead of Hakim Warrick, C) Nash having an off shooting night , and D) RJ going bonkers in the fourth.

Offensively we were sloppy to the point where I actually yelled at the TV, which is an embarrassing lack of sports fan gratitude on my part considering the monumental happiness I experienced just two days prior. But I just couldn't stand watching more unforced turnovers than one would find at a second round females match at Wimbledon. It was just general sloppiness and butterfingered ball-handling, which under different circumstances would be quite pleasurable but in the confines of basketball is completely unsatisfactory and quite frustrating to watch. There was no excuse for it. The team wasn't on a SEGABABA, they weren't in the dog days of the season, there was just no reason for it.

Okay, there was one reason for it: Garrett Temple sucks. In 14 minutes he did everything he could to lose that game, on both ends of the floor, and it was obvious how little the Suns respected him, trying to trap him at every opportunity. But even outside of him, our starters combined for 20 turnovers which is just unacceptable. The refs didn't help any either. You know that saying where if both teams are complaining about the officiating then the zebras must be doing a good job? Well sometimes both teams complain because the referees are just awful. This crew sided with the defense on just about every block/charge call and also called a couple of questionable (by NBA standards) traveling violations to boot. Both teams had to put up with them, but the officials definitely had the worst night out of anyone on the floor.

Anyway, I've formed a theory. I believe that unless we play teams who excel at half court defense (Boston comes to mind, who else? Chicago? LA? New Orleans?) that most squads will choose to play us the way the Suns and the Clippers have, by blitzing, overplaying and gambling for turnovers. I think a lot of coaches have come to the conclusion that with the big three on the floor - or more like the big four now with Jefferson's emergence - that our starting offensive unit is far too efficient to play straight up. I think teams will take their chances to either force mistakes or get beat for buckets quicker so either way we'll be involved in ragged, up and down games where we can't control tempo or drain the shot clock on possessions.

Under Pop our game plan has always been to make it a slow half court game at both ends. That plays to our strengths (or Tim's anyway). By being aggressive and gambling on defense teams will get lots of fast break buckets on us and force us to score quicker when we solve our traps, so either way it'll be a faster paced game with more possessions.

Again, it's just a theory and we'll have to see if it plays out that way. If it does, the only way the Spurs can win consistently is by solving the puzzles over and over and over again, like Peyton Manning reading blitzes. When we do it right the buckets will look ridiculously easy and the fellas will put up impressive stats. When we do it wrong, Pop will turn various shades of purple. Either way the games will get lopsided one way or the other, quickly.

I'm probably giving opponents too much credit and making a mountain out of a mole hill. Maybe the Spurs have just had a careless start and that's that. But it sure looks to me like they're being challenged more, overplayed on the wings, being denied post ups, half court trapped, three quarters court trapped, full court trapped, sidelines trapped, the whole shebang. Tim, Tony and Manu are all very efficient scorers, but they're all guys with high turnover rates as well and teams may very well be looking to exploit that. It's something that bears watching, but you can bet Pop will be working them through the kinks on the practice floor over the next two days. 

Unless he spends the whole time on pick-and-roll defense, that is.

Anyway, enough with the negatives. We did win the damn game (getting our RAGE-o-meter back to zero in the process) and there were some good things that happened out there.

Our four main guys took turns providing the lion's share of the offense in each quarter. Tony led the way with eight in the first when ten miscues prevented us from getting too many shots up and only disastrous shooting early by the Suns kept it from getting out of hand early. Manu had 10 in the second, where we started to solve them a bit, and got to the line. Tim had 13 in the third, scoring inside and out from all over the court and really abusing Warrick and Lopez. Finally Jefferson had 18 in the fourth to bring us home, including four threes from the same corner (three of them coming in a 45-second stretch) which is just incomprehensible considering that none of them were passes from a double-teamed big man in the post or off dribble drive penetrations. The fourth one came on the break, but the first three were all products of the ball going from side to side and simple passing around the perimeter.

Tiago had a couple of nifty moves on offense and showed he's got some post up skills. On defense he was mostly lost but had enough quickness to draw three fouls. Blair had seven rebounds in 19 minutes and actually made a couple of buckets after another spazzy start. Anderson continued to pass well in the half court, had a breakaway steal and dunk in the fourth quarter and showed some impressive ball handling on the break. McDyess had another fine outing, rebounded well once again and had a couple of inside buckets for once when he rolled to the basket.

Tony was in foul trouble most of the night, which limited what he could do after the first quarter, but he played really hard against Nash on defense which was nice to see. Manu isn't looking very quick or explosive right now but he picked his spots on offense and took over the point guard duties for the majority of the game and wasn't really looking for his shot. Tim was the best mid-range shooter on the court for either team and while I love me some Duncan a 25 and 17 from him on 11-of-13 shooting is a pretty telling illustration of how depleted the Suns are inside. Lopez has size but no quickness while Warrick has the opposite problem. We didn't really post up Timmy all night because the Suns fronted him a bunch and you got the feeling that they knew they were cooked if he got the ball with his back to the basket. Instead he worked on the high post and the wings for his shots and his way on the boards as well. That Jefferson continued to be open on the weak side in the fourth quarter was a glaring example of how much the Suns were overplaying the ball side.

Anyway, a win is a win and it was nice to silence the Suns crowd again after last May. The team has an awful lot to work on but maybe the biggest lesson to take away from the game is that we missed both Hill and Rocket and that the sooner both return, the better.

Your Three Stars:

3. Manu Ginobili - Only forced a couple of bad shots and had a couple of ugly giveaways but otherwise played a very intelligent game and worked hard on defense against Grant Hill and Jason Richardson to deny them easy baskets even though both tried to post him up numerous times. Had to run the offense for most of the game and did it well.

2. Richard Jefferson - Drilled all four of his fourth quarter threes from the same spot and was generally aggressive when in looking for his offense, whether it was getting out on the break or moving without the ball. Pretty solid defensively as well.

1. Tim Duncan - Jefferson will garner all the headlines, but Duncan did the dirty work on the boards and had a big block on Warrick to clinch the game, in addition to his fabulous shooting night. He looked very determined to beat these guys, which was a welcome change from the last two games, when he really wasn't into it. He also passed George Gervin on all-time scoring list and now he's only 80 points behind The Admiral for the franchise record. 

Up Next: Saturday, Vs. Houston (0-4). The Rockets have gotten off to a miserable start. Their offense looks as dangerous as I imagined with Luis Scola in full bloom and Kevin Martin filling it up, but they're allowing the most points in the league which is staggering considering that the Warriors and Pacers are still in the league. Games between the Spurs and Rox have traditionally been very tight and low scoring, but at the moment neither team is in position to stop the other very much. Houston allowed 46 to Monta Ellis, so Tony and Manu might combine for a 100 all by themselves. I've got a nagging feeling that the Rockets are due for a win, but we're coming off a home loss ourselves and Pop's going to ride these guys hard after two straight sloppy games.

Comment 71 comments  |  9 recs  | 

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"You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." -Davy Crockett
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by Trey Felder on Nov 4, 2010 8:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Your three stars had 14 turnovers.

More bizarrely, they were 14-17 from the line and all three misses came from Manu.

by doggydogworld on Nov 4, 2010 8:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Something was “off” about Manu last night. He was even missing shots in the pre-game shootaround. He still found ways to contribute, but he wasn’t really himself.

by Tim C. on Nov 4, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

at one point he was 6-8 from the field, until he missed his last four shots. That said, I would’ve made Duncan, Jefferson, and the bench unit of Splitter, Mcdyess, and Anderson the three stars. Those three really came through in the second half.

by slipstream21 on Nov 4, 2010 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’ve got a nagging feeling that the Rockets are due for a win, but we’re coming off a home loss ourselves and Pop’s going to ride these guys hard after two straight sloppy games.

Unfortunately, Brooks and Scola will both probably put up 30 each on us, all using the P&R. Aside from Phoenix, Utah and Houston shredded us the most using this method. It’s really amazing how bad the team is across the board in guarding it. Timmy with his atrophied kness is (at least until Splitter gets acclimated) the best P&R defending big we have, which is a really scary thought at this point. Unfortunately, our smalls aren’t much better.

 As rough as they look right now, the Spurs are showing the signs of having a VERY competitive team this year once things start to get in-sink. Unfortunately, the P&R defense is the kind of fatal flaw that will outweigh everything good the team does, and ultimately sink it. I’m not optimistic of this improving much either. If the Spurs didn’t find a way to fix this problem after last year’s embarrassment, clearly we’re just going to have to learn to accept it.

by Neuwaldegg on Nov 4, 2010 9:21 AM CDT reply actions  

once things start to get in-sink

Things like termination shock?

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 4, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha. So is the lack of an edit button deliberate for just such occasions?

by Neuwaldegg on Nov 4, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, let’s just say that such occasions have arisen due to there being no edit button.

That’s also the reason there is a PtR Lexicon.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 4, 2010 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

As we all know, RJ doesn’t really like to play the 4. So with 18 seconds left Pop makes him our 5!!!!

1. TP
2. Manu
3. Temple
4. Anderson
5. RJ

by doggydogworld on Nov 4, 2010 9:26 AM CDT reply actions  

How does it feel to once again write for The Spurs Examiner. Well done.

by indiancharlie on Nov 4, 2010 10:39 AM CDT reply actions  

butterfingered ball-handling

Great Quote, describing exactly the Spurs inability to hold on to the ball. It looked like their hands had gone to sleep and they couldn’t grip the ball.
I was very happy when the Suns pulled Dragic, he was killing us! He was running around and past people, (he made Temple look lost). He was drawing in the Spurs and then kicking it out.
I watched Blair, since his stats are so strange this year. He is getting more involved. He is setting blocks and screens. Yes, his man is shooting over him, but unlike last year, his man is not able to drive, and has to take the shots farther out. I think he is doing more, yet the results are not showing, yet.
And Anderson really looked smooth when he drove, pulled in the defense, and then tossed the ball to RJ for a three.

by LakehillsFan on Nov 4, 2010 11:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Lopez has size but no quickness while Warrick has the opposite problem.

With Duncan’s current speed and Blair lack of height we are in a similar predicament. If Tiago can contribute anything this year. If he had to pick one thing to do great, it should be learning where to be on defense and how to defend the pick and roll effectively. Timmeh cannot do it anymore.

"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG

by LasEspuelas on Nov 4, 2010 11:13 AM CDT reply actions  

I think he could, if he has someone behind him. If Duncan and Tiago are on the floor together, it’s easier for Duncan to commit to the other guy and not get fully burned. That’s not to say that his TiP&R defense hasn’t regressed, but it will help when Duncan has a big behind him like Iago.

by grego21 on Nov 4, 2010 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hopefully not Iago… wasn’t he the treacherous subordinate of the great Othello?

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 5, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

He was indeed.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 5, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great writeup and all good points. Resonates with mine. I’m really starting to like reading your comments regularly. Please keep writing. Awesome and recommended.

Keep the faith!!

by Heman on Nov 4, 2010 1:53 PM CDT reply actions  

we missed both Hill and Rocket and that the sooner both return, the better.

Interesting. I agree, but it seems that most fans would rather we not get Bonner back.

by Big50 on Nov 4, 2010 2:44 PM CDT reply actions  

He’s extremely useful when you have to score a lot of points against a team that isn’t very physical. So yea, this would have been the perfect game for him.

by Tim C. on Nov 4, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

He would have been useful against the Clippers and New Orleans as well.

by grego21 on Nov 4, 2010 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he’ll help us when he gets back, and I don’t want to qualify that statement one bit.

by greyberger on Nov 4, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unqualified praise for Bon-bon? I must be on the wrong site. =]

It’s encouraging how much people seem to be ready to appreciate what he is, while recognizing (but not focusing on) what he isn’t.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 4, 2010 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great writing. You really captured what it was like to watch the game. Going just on the espn recap or box score you wouldn’t get a sense for how wild this one was. Both teams missed opportunities to get control of the game. I’m sure Suns fans were just as tense and shellshocked as we were by the end.

A lot of the things you talk about as negatives (turnovers, getting trapped, getting exploited in screen and roll sets) are made worse by the familiarity. The Suns roster changed more than ours did, but Gentry, Nash, and Dragic were still prepared for us. Having the Suns’ second unit come out with a coordinated press and chase defense made it feel like a playoff game.

Anyway the Spurs are the masters of the ugly win. If you think Phoenix is decent and will make the playoffs, this is the most you can really hope for when your team is still developing.

by greyberger on Nov 4, 2010 3:37 PM CDT reply actions  

Someone had suggested in one of the game threads (kiddingly I believe) that we now have too many good players. I had come to that conclusion after the first game last season. Then I figured that there were a number of veteran players on the team that did not seem like they were going to get as many minutes as they’d like (Ratliff, Haislip, Mason, Finley), or if they did get minutes that young players would not get enough to develop (Hill, Blair, Hairston, Mahinmi). I think that we may have even better talent this year, and that if may fit together better as well. I can’t think of anyone on the bench that seems likely to be complaining that they aren’t getting enough minutes and so might want their release so that they can go play somewhere else. I’d expect they would all like more minutes (with an exception perhaps for McDyess), but they will be content enough with what they do get and won’t be making any demands.

by Alamo on Nov 4, 2010 5:05 PM CDT reply actions  

There’s better balance in terms of talent this year. There were too many guys who did the same thing last year.

by grego21 on Nov 4, 2010 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right now we're not very good.

Unfamiliarity is a reason, as are the injuries to Hill and Bonner. I don’t think we’ll know how good the Spurs can be until the full team plays 20-30 games together at full health, and I don’t know if that’s a realistic goal.

I do know that Pop isn’t going to play a 11-man rotation. I think on most nights either Anderson or Neal will be squeezed out (more likely the latter) depending on the match-up.

It’s also unlikely that Pop will find time for five bigs. Lots of people want Bonner to sit and maybe if RJ emerges as a legitimate scorer and three point shooter, the offense will need to rely on Bonner less. I think it’s likelier though that McDyess takes plenty of DNP-CDs along the way (alternating SEGABABA’s with Duncan) and that Pop gives both Blair and Splitter a short leash, emphasizing to them that poor defense and soft rebounding will not be tolerated.

This is the deepest team we’ve had in years, but right now with our defense and turnovers, we’re no threat to LA at all. It’s going to be a work in progress, but right now we’re just a run-of-the-mill freewheeling Western all offense/no defense team.

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

by Aaronstampler on Nov 4, 2010 5:42 PM CDT reply actions  

I too am most worried about our defense. Everyone here is talking about the P&R as our weakness, but I think with Splitter we will eliminate it as a major weakness. My biggest fear is our perimeter defense, particularly after last game. It may have had more to do with the fact that we were playing a great three-point shooting team in the Suns, and one of our best perimeter defenders in George wasn’t available, but I still can’t help but to feel worried about it. As of right now, I think we got everything we needed over the summer with the exception of a lock-down perimeter defender.

by slipstream21 on Nov 4, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it’s likelier though that McDyess takes plenty of DNP-CDs along the way (alternating SEGABABA’s with Duncan)

I’ve heard this mentioned, requested, predicted and prayed for over the last few years with increasing frequency. And, while I’m all for using Duncan less to save him for the playoffs, I’ve never seen any kind of commitment from the team to actually hold him out of SEGABABA’s on anything resembling a consistent basis.

All that to say, I’m very interested as to why you think that the likelihood of Duncan and McDyess alternating games is greater than Bonner seeing a diminished role.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 4, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

duncan staying fresh is the most important thing to this team…playing well at the end is more important then playing well in the beginning but duncan has started better then he has finished the last few seasons.

thats why its important

by spurs fan on Nov 4, 2010 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

sf, I couldn’t agree with you more about Duncan needing to be fresh.

My point is that, as much as everyone knows that a rested Duncan is better than one that’s played every game, when it actually comes to sitting him for a FIGABABA or a SEGABABA Pop usually ends up playing him (or letting him play) except in rare circumstances – like 2009’s Denver game.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 5, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

In a recent interview Tim indicated that the plan last year was for him to rest more, but it simply did not work out due to injuries and having to battle for a playoff spot. No point of being rested for the playoffs if you’re not in them. If they succeed in getting off to a better spot and look like a shoo-in for the playoffs, then it seems likely that Tim might sit out a few games late in the season.

by Alamo on Nov 5, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Last year just didn’t allow him to rest. Once Tiago is fully implemented, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Duncan take off a full game or even take off the 2nd half.

With a healthy Bonner and Tiago (fully implemented), I see now reason why they can’t find spots to rest Duncan.

We’ll probably see it occur most on the 4 games in 5 nights weeks.

by grego21 on Nov 5, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Last year just didn’t allow him to rest. Once Tiago is fully implemented, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Duncan take off a full game or even take off the 2nd half.

You mean like go on vacation after the All-Star break? That would be weird…
Oh, you mean the 2nd half of certain games… like Yao on his timer? Never mind. :)

If Duncan were to do that voluntarily, I’d take it as a worrying sign, that the wheels were about to come off. He’ll sit if Coach tells him to, but he wants to play as much as he possibly can, every game.

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 5, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I meant to infer that all of this is Pop’s doing although Timmy understands that he needs to sit as well.

In the NO game, Pop sat Duncan for the rest of the game. I think even though the 2nd unit was making their run.

I think Pop will try to mix it up in that sense.

by grego21 on Nov 5, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Duncan came back into the game when it was still in the balance — with a little less than a minute to go.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 5, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are right. I completely blanked out on that one.

by grego21 on Nov 5, 2010 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you mean imply rather than infer. I was inferring (incorrectly) that you were talking about Duncan taking the 2nd half of the season off. You were implying that this was all under Pop’s control.

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 5, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, you are correct. Doh!

by grego21 on Nov 5, 2010 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, one mainly because of age. Duncan and McDyess are both old and need rest.

Secondly, they’re more similar as far as what they give you offensively and defensively with each other than they are with Bonner.

These days, Duncan only plays as a post up center when the team is playing small, or when he’s paired with Dice or Bonner. If he’s playing with Blair or Splitter, then he plays in the high post or on the wings. If we assume that Blair and Splitter’s roles on the team are a given and that one or the other will be on the court for 35 minutes, then it doesn’t matter too much whether Duncan or Dice play with them as they do similar things in the high post and on defense and rebounding.

I don’t think Bonner’s role has all that much to do with Duncan and Dice honestly. Bonner’s role depends more on Splitter, Blair, RJ, Anderson and Neal. The better those guys play, the less Bonner will play. If they struggled to shoot or defend though, then Pop will turn to Rocket not only because he’s a shooter but also because he knows the system and won’t caught out of position on defense.

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

by Aaronstampler on Nov 4, 2010 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bonner’s defense has also improved since last season. He’s held his ground pretty well against a guy like West. That’s mostly due in part because of like you say, positioning.

I think Pop might try and get away with just limited minutes in general (depending on the matchups) to compliment sitting guys on back to backs.

Definitely agree with the TD/Dice playing style. Duncan’s post play will be limited until the end of the season.

by grego21 on Nov 4, 2010 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bonner has a post-up game, too. No, really.

I smell death... everywhere.

by LatinD on Nov 7, 2010 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

It’s limited, but effective within its limitations. I do like that he developed a pump fake and dribble. And he usually passes decently off of the dribble. Sometimes he tries to do too much, but he’s definitely made himself less 1 dimensional. He’s maybe 1.5 to 2 dimensional now.

by grego21 on Nov 7, 2010 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Spurs are a work in progress. They aren’t that good, but they are already close to matching the team from last year. Obviously, that’s not saying too much. However, the Spurs still have room for improvement and that’s a good thing.

I think one thing that will help will be Blair going to the bench where he can abuse more of the opponents second unit.

I also think it will take a while for the team to get that full cohesion, even on offense. Since they are trying to run more, they need to get used to this.This should help cut down on turnovers and put less pressure on the defense.

Obviously, defensively is the bigger area. There have been more signs though, especially like shutting down Phoenix in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter.

by grego21 on Nov 4, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jesus, you aint lying. I headed down to NBA.COMs nifty sortable team stats machine to see just how bad the Spurs defense has been. I about choked on my dinner….we are second in oppenent field goal percentage. SE-COND, worse than Phoenix, New York, Golden State, etc etc etc…

[ "Duncan, the Spurs' 34-year-old captain, was aghast when Splitter told him he used to watch him as a kid."]

"I didn't enjoy that at all," Duncan said

by alamobro on Nov 5, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

It gets worse when you look at advanced stats. And playing Houston tomorrow probably isn’t going to make it any better. Good thing their defense is dead last.

by Tim C. on Nov 5, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

HOU and SA at the bottom of the league’s defensive rankings. Weird.

If this continues through the first half of the season, I might have to revise my postseason expectations for this team.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 5, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Although 4 games will skew stats. Spurs D should get better. They showed they can still play it against the Suns at the end of the game.

by grego21 on Nov 5, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

and other periods during the game as well. The Suns did not shoot the ball well thru much of the first quarter, arguably much of the first half as well.

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 5, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Their D against everyone but Nash and Goran was decent. Even on Nash they did good jobs on him at times. But part of that is Nash just getting older and having to do even more without Amare.

by grego21 on Nov 5, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

i.e. Turkey-Glue is having trouble adjusting, as I predicted.

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 5, 2010 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Keep it up, fresh. You do it so well.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 5, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

ty jrw

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 5, 2010 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually I just looked at San Antonio’s defensive efficiency via Hollinger’s machine and Hoopdata. It’s not nearly as bad as oppenent field goal % alone indicates.

The Spurs rank 13th and 14th in defensive efficiency via Hollinger and Hoop data respectively. Whew.

[ "Duncan, the Spurs' 34-year-old captain, was aghast when Splitter told him he used to watch him as a kid."]

"I didn't enjoy that at all," Duncan said

by alamobro on Nov 5, 2010 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you go to the “oppononet shot locations” data set on Hoopdata, there’s some really ugly numbers in there.

by Tim C. on Nov 5, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

as ugly as oppononet? It seems to be a mashup of “opponent on net,” which almost makes sense in a BB context. :)

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 5, 2010 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

as ugly as oppononet?

That’s without a doubt the most enormous GOL I’ve had over a comment on PtR in months.

Tim, you’re very lucky that we already have Artests’s misspelling, and probably don’t need another. Besides, how would you pronounce it?

[OH-puh-NO-net] — kinda awkward.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 6, 2010 3:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the huge laugh, FTROB. You get a JTU from me.

With all due respect, gentlemen, we're not as crazy as she is.

by CapHill on Nov 6, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really shouldn’t post under the influence of Mucinex and Benadryl(at the same time), should I? It seems that I’m making the lexicon longer by the day this week.

by Tim C. on Nov 6, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

at least you can spell Mucinex and Benadryl… both at the same time. :)

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 6, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

One of the side effects of taking them must be the ability to spell them correctly.

The point with intangibles is that no one can see them.

by J.R. Wilco on Nov 6, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

GOL

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 6, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some examples

Yes, LD, I wrote in the subject line. From the previously mentioned sortable chart on hoopdata:


This is horrible inside defense. I can’t believe I praised this team’s frontline defense in the season preview.

We’re best in the “< 10 feet” category(4th best in the league after Orlando, Boston and Dallas), and we’re pretty decent at defending the midrage jumper(40%), but once you get out to the perimeter, we’re shockingly bad again.


Needless to say, all three of those numbers need to come down if we’re to compete for a title.

by Tim C. on Nov 6, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think this will change when Tiago gets to be a starter.

by grego21 on Nov 6, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post those numbers, Tim.

I agree, the Spurs’ numbers are uglier than “oppononet” :)

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 6, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’s still too early to draw many conclusions from the stats out there. I say that as someone who looks at stats obsessively. There might be cause for worry in them but then again you might be worrying for no reason.

Shooting percent, FG% or eFG%, goes up and down a lot from game to game. Last year we had a dozen or more games where we did even worse than our 2010-to-date numbers. To start the year in 2009, we allowed 52.0% eFG through 6 games – almost as bad as our current mark of 52.4%. At 3-3 though we were struggling more.

In 2009 we responded by cracking down the defense, and opponent eFG fell to 44.4% over the next six games. Unfortunately it didn’t coincide with more winning, we split this sextet of games 3-3 as well.

Opponent shooting will cool off, both due to regression to the mean and due to Coach Pop. It’s not sufficient to guarantee a winning team or an improved one, however, there are too many other ways to win or lose a ball game.

by greyberger on Nov 5, 2010 3:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Love your writing, Stampler… rec’d (since I forgot to do it earlier).

I’ve been thinking about what you wrote about opposing teams maybe gambling more on defense and baiting the Spurs into playing at a faster pace. There could be some truth to that, as I could well see opposing players thinking that the Spurs are too old to keep up with a high-paced game and tire out by the fourth.

That would be a mistaken assumption. Not only have the Big Three benefited from a restful season, there are young legs on the team, and the team conditioning is quite remarkable so early in the season…. almost everyone came into camp in extremely good shape. It’s just as likely that the other team will run out of gas in crunch time… Nash blamed ‘tired’ legs (after four? days of rest) for his poor shooting performance.

And lest we forget, the Duncan-era Spurs have always fielded good, if not great, fast-break personnel… it wasn’t just the ‘one-man fast break’ of Tony Parker all those years. It’s just that the team has picked and chosen when to run… it’s possible that all the new/young players and the good early-season conditioning have motivated the team to choose to run a lot more this year.

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 5, 2010 4:41 PM CDT reply actions  

arg, that should have been “restful off-season” of course!

Hey, if posting a sharp, insightful, yet non-sarcastic comment were that easy, even olf would do it.

Mike Monroe: ...the uninformed presume Parker is expendable.

by freshtunarightofftheboat on Nov 7, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Another great write-up. Bottom line is, we’re winning and scoring. Defense came around last season, bench never did.

I smell death... everywhere.

by LatinD on Nov 7, 2010 12:08 AM CDT reply actions  

And there were very few games that they pulled out like the ones so far this year. All those would be losses. So far, they are winning the close ones, proving they have the resolve.

by grego21 on Nov 7, 2010 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, the last two seasons, we played similarly terrible D to start the year, and went 1-4 and 2-3, IIRC.

by Tim C. on Nov 7, 2010 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

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