Odds and Ends
I haven't written much lately and I have a lot of little things piling up in the vast empty space above my shoulders that is interfering with the ability of the air to circulate in the house.
Time to clean up. I'm talking about everything. Enter.
International
The International round up has taken a couple weeks off while the EuroLeague was on vacation. They started back up today so I'll be back strong next Tuesday with your highlights and stats. In its absence, I want to throw a little Chinese basketball observation at you. If you took all the guys from the American guys from the Chinese league and made a team, you'd get a pretty decent NBA roster. Three years ago. Currently toiling Southeast of the great wall are:
- David Harrison
- Stromile Swift - put up 40 and 17 in his last game
- Smush Parker
- Marcus Williams - averaging a cool 22 points and 11 boards
- Andre Emmett - who put up 53 in EACH of his first two games
- Rodney White
- Coach Bob Weiss (former Spurs head coach)
- Coach Sidney Moncrief
- Andre Brown
- DerMarr Johnson
- James Mays
- Cedric Bozeman
- John Lucas - the young one
- Garrett Siler - giant young man from summer league
- Brandon Robinson - just missed making the Cavs
- Jelani McCoy
- Mengke Bateer - former Spur and owner of an NBA championship ring
- Maurice Taylor - prototypical Clipper
- Donta Smith
I just finished reading a book called 'City of Thieves'. It's about world war 2 St Petersburg. A really good read and I highly recommend it. One of the characters grows up playing chess at the local club called Spartak. That's the Russian St Petersburg basketball team. I thought, "Hey, I know what that is".
Toros
The Toros haven't played a home game since December 11th and they don't play another until January 19th. They are sitting at 8-7. Four of their losses have been to Rio Grande Valley. They have only made one roster move so far this season dumping Ryan Bright and picking up Eddie Basden. None of their guys have been called up, which is a good thing. Alonzo Gee is averaging 22 per game for them. Curtis Jerrells is putting up 21 a game. Dwayne Jones is averaging 17 and 15.
Spurs Offense
Our offense is awesome. If this is what we do when our offensive chemistry is low, I hate to see what we do when we are all comfortable. We are shooting 48.4% from the field which is third in the league. Hoopdata has us 5th in offensive efficiency. I can live with that.
We are shooting 38.9% from 3-point this season. Good for third in the league. I know we like to say that you live by the three and die by the three, but I'm starting to wonder if that is valid. Check out these 3-point percentages. We are 13th in the league in attempts. There are a bunch of teams that just suck at it all the time and they keep shooting. One of those would be the Lakers who are 8th in attempts and are shooting just 34.3%.
Spurs Defense
At this point, I think we can monitor our chances at a championship by tracking the defensive improvements. Right now, we are 8th in the league in defensive efficiency. If we can get that to creep higher and really start to lock up some opponents, we will be a really tough out.
Concern
I am still slightly concerned that we are winning so many games on the offensive end. I want to see us knocking out some ugly wins. Detroit was ALMOST close to an ugly win. We just shot too well. But that fourth quarter defense was a start.
Random Bits of Spurs Data
In an interview question, I asked Coach Pop if he played Blair 35 minutes in the Knicks game to just throw him out there or because DeJuan was getting more comfortable. He said something to the effect of "you play well, you earn more minutes". So, I think we can say that if DeJuan is playing a lot then he is playing well.
I spent a lot of time with Graydon over the break. One of the things we talked about at length is the Spurs '4 Down' play where they feed Tim the ball and the feeder cuts through baseline. We were trying to figure out what the point of the cut baseline was. They do it every time, but they never pass the cutter the ball and the cutter never runs the cut like they expect the ball. Well, we asked Pop the question. Really, Graydon asked Pop the question pre-game for the TWolves matchup. I'll let Graydon give you Pop's super-fantastic smart-ass funny response. But, the point is that it is part of the play and the cut is, in fact, run to be a threat to score. Sure as shit, in the game, RJ is posting up and Manu cuts and RJ hands him the ball and gets a 3 point play. My question is "Why doesn't Tony ever run that cut like he expects the ball?" I'll let Graydon answer that one.
Going into the Pistons game, we are the second best rebounding team in the league. As much as I and everybody else like to complain about the rebounding, we are a really strong rebounding team this year. Chemistry or no chemistry, we are taking care of that part of the game. I think we'll just have to put that complaint to rest for a little while.
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Comments
Comment, Odds and Ends
Wayne, good comments, but the EuroLeague stuff was kinda useless, except for the Marcus Williams stats. The last three times Marcus Haislip got some floor time I surmised that he has NBA offensive talent, can rebound and even play a little defense when he knows who he has to cover. But when it comes to positioning so that he can give defensive help he seems to be totally out of it. I guess that is the part of his game that is keeping him on the bench. Anything about Ian Mahinmi’s physical health? It seems to me that he should at least been able to doff his civies for a numbered shirt by know. I’m beginning to feel that he will never suit up and may be off the roster by the end of Feb. I hope not, because the times that I have seen him play I saw an awful lot of promise. He’s young, athletic, can jump and knows how to finish around the basket. I fear that because of his inexperience, ie: Pop prefers older experienced players, we may loose him only to see him return to haunt us on another team’s roster. What do you think is going to happen when Finley and Bonner come off the disabled roster? I guess Haislip and Hairston lose out. I think Fin and the Red Rocket have offensive value, but their defensive shortcomings leave much to be desired. With Blair starting to look like a starter and Mason getting his shooting game back, It will be hard to cut their minutes to give the returnees floor time. Of course that’s the kind of problem most NBA coaches want. Looking forward to the upcoming Dallas and LA games. It will give us a look at how much we have improved and where our shortfalls are. Keep up the good work Wayne.
Personally, I like the International Posts and the time Wayne puts into them. I’ve always wondered how other leagues operate and now I have an idea.
I think Ian’s stuck in DNP-CD land until his time with the Spurs is over. If he was going to play this year, he would have already.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
good read Wayne… especially that “4 Down” play, i too have been noticing that baseline cut and have been wondering what it’s all about… especially when Parker do his.. but when i saw Manu and RJ connect, i thought for the first time that it has indeed an offensive purpose…
really, we are 2nd best rebounding team? how much does Blair have to do with it?
We are second in both rebounding percentage and rebounding margin. Memphis is first in both.
I’m sure Blair has something to do with it. It also doesn’t hurt that we have RJ, McDyess, and Manu(healthy). RJ isn’t putting up studly rebounding numbers by any stretch, but he’s still better than Ime, Bruce, FinDog, etc (I didn’t fact check that). Mason, Hill, and Bogans are also decent rebounders from the guard position. And, as ghostown would point out, Bonner has been hurt.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 7, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
As for Blair, he led the league in rebounding rate for awhile but currently sits at 8th or 6th if you want to not count Portland’s injured bigs. Blair’s rate took a hit from starting next to Duncan who is at 10th without Portland’s guys. Dice is then at 31st even with all of his starts with Duncan. It’s really impressive for the Spurs to have 3 guys over 16.5% and two over 19% rebounding.
Manu is 20th for SG’s at around 8% with the top SG in the league, Mike Miller, at 12%.
Manu used to get the ball back a lot back in early 2K on the baseline clear out. During the days he could reverse dunk it :P I think I have counted once this season when Timmy handed it off to somebody on that cut, I think it might have been Rage going strong.
But of course, the obvious thing in the absence of the handoff is the clear out so that Manu’s or Rage’s cover doesn’t double team Tim on the dribble or go for the strip. In fact, the one time this season, Mason acted dumb and hung around, his guy went and stripped the ball from Timmeh.
The other offensive wrinkle we have seen flashes off and which hold promise is the passer clearing out baseline, while Rage runs his man into Timmeh on the other side and goes to the basket for an alley oop. Think they have converted those a few times. Again, it goes back to my main query. We run plays to Tony’s, Timmy’s and Manu’s strengths. Why can’t Tony work his ass off and learn to work quite a few alley oops into the offensive flow of the game. So far, I know of only one play where they do it, and we don’t even see it every game. Could be RJ’s fault too for not being aggressive.
As far as defense, I am sure Dyess’s D will improve. From what I have seen, some games, he just commits a lot of lazy fouls. But I have enough faith in Dyess’s drive that he will be ready in the second half of the season.
Blair also will improve his defense I am hoping. When opponents don’t put the ball on the floor, they are shooting over Blair a bit too easily too close to the basket.
Hill’s defense against face-up shooters have to improve. Even with all his length, I have noticed Hill just basically hunches or squats down preparing to cut off the drive, and the shooter, like Rip yesterday, just basically stands and shoots over him. I like that he cut off the drive, just want him to contest that shot a bit more.
The above are the guys I am reasonably certain will improve their savvy. Tony’s guy will shoot mid range J’s on us all day long without Tony ever bothering the shot. I don’t have much hope there. Manu is slowly getting back to being a pest and gambler, so there is that with its own set of pros and cons. But I have hope for better team D and some individual improvement.
Could it be that Tony never looks for the ball in order to bait the defense until we really need a bucket? It seems whenever it’s a close game in the fourth, Pop calls a timeout and we always run a play where Tony exposes a cheating defender with a backside cut for a layup.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
Ah, the backdoor cut is a high-low from Tim at the free throw line. Different play. I think you guys might be surprised when Graydon gives you the answer.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 7, 2010 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
Who can say? We talked around who was going to post what regarding this discussion. So if nothing else, I’ll tell him what I wrote.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 7, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I let him know. If he’s anything like me, he’ll have it ready in about a month.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 7, 2010 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
some really good stuff in here that i havent been able to get thru yet – but after one quick pass thru the list of chinese league players, i am astounded. its like a who’s who of miscellaneous guys from the thousands of college games i have watched over the past several years. some of these names (cedric bozeman, garrett siler, stromile swift, sidney moncrief, bob weiss, mengke bateer) just warm my old cold heart.
I think of you when I write those lists. I’ve found some interesting people around the world.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 7, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Just finish watching the game again on League Pass.
Over the recent games I have not been pleased with what I am seeing defensively. Its better than before but still no cigar.
I still feel we are under achieving defensively and it is not just one thing it is a few things I think I can put my fingers on.
1. We are not mixing up our defenses. We are guarding people the exact same way we just throw a different person at em, but they are all doing the same thing.
2. Like lionzion says GHILL and Bogans do crouch too much. That only tells the opponent that you are defending the drive so he should jab step and shoot over top. It also allows the opponent to see the floor, so even if you do send a double he will see it coming.
When GHill is playing defense he always tries to beat his man to the spot to take a charge. And that is fine. But you have to set the guy up for that call. Sometimes instead of trying to beat him to the spot, run with him and just force him to shoot over you or around you. And the moment he thinks he has you measured then you switch it up on him. It is little things like this that makes a great on ball defender. But every now and then you have to get up into someones grill and test their handle.
3. RJ does not block out the shooter sometimes. He will play good defense and then become a spectator. I notice he likes to get a head start on the break so I understand why he is not blocking out all the time, but we have to get the ball first.
With his size, he should be contesting then turn and block out his man. If he did this more consistently he would get an extra 2 or 3 trips to the FT line, just from over the back fouls. Our offense is too potent to be worried about fast break points. If they come great. But we should hang our hat on securing those defensive rebounds especially RJ.
4. Our rotations are not that clean. I see 2 guys running to the shooter which means someone is confused. This just simply can’t happen. Because that means somebody is not on the defensive glass where they are supposed to be, which will probably end up as 2nd chance pts for the other team.
5. Timmy’s shot blocking or lack of. He is not attacking the shooter anymore. Now this could be because he has gotten older in which case I understand. Believe me, it happens to us all. But he is just not getting his respect in there. Everyone is challenging Timmy like he ain’t even there. And they are doing it because they know Timmy is not going to jump. Every now and then Timmy has to pull a D. Howard and beat someone’s shot out of the gym.
If we buckled down and do these little things we would be blowing people out. Because lets face it we did give up 92 pts to the Pistons and they average 9pts, so we basically didn’t hold a team that can’t score below their avg.. The Spurs have the personnel to score 100pts every night even without Bonner and Finley shooting 3ptrs. So if we can hold teams to one and done. There is no way they could keep up with us.
Sorry about the length, but I had a lot of bitching to do. And yeah that was after a win. :)
Im surprised at the three pointer statistics. I was under the impression that we were shooting too much, but I guess that compared to the rest of the league this is not entirely accurate.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
Without looking for a actual team by team comparison, we are 14th in offensive rebounding rate which might correlate with 3 point attempts. Long attempts equal long rebounds and more offensive rebounding opportunities.
The top 3 offensive rebounding teams are all in the bottom 5 in 3 point attempts so maybe I’m just crazy though. The top two 3PA teams are also in the bottom 5 of offensive rebounding. Maybe I’ll look into this more later.
I’m not sure if I’m the only one who notices it, but Blair sets weak picks. He does. I didn’t see it too much in the last game. But he does. And it worries me. I mean has he ever seen a Robert Horry pick? Now that’s a pick. Maybe Blair hurries to his next spot, but Big Shot clearly shows that you can set a solid pick and still get to your spot. Just a pet peeve. Get those ACL-less legs under you, Beast.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
Forget the weak part. He was only setting imaginary picks when the season started. At least its progressed to weak.
I think you might be right.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Jan 7, 2010 10:40 PM CST up reply actions
GOL.
Too true. Progress in this case is a term that means: actually able to be measured; not imaginary.
Consider the gun jumped
5 in 10
by jollyrogerwilco on Jan 8, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed that. I was kind of worried that it wasn’t being discussed. Whats the longest he has stayed to set a pick? 1/64 of a second?
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
I’m neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but I think there is some interesting angles here. One, I’ll bet that the Spurs have a rule for when you are supposed to leave the pick and roll to the basket. Additionally, Horry more times than not would go to the three point line instead of to the basket. I’d bet that is a different rule for when you leave the pick.
Anyway, it is something I’m interested in. But, I don’t feel that I can really critique it without knowing what exactly he is supposed to be doing.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 8, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions

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