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Around SBN: Explaining Jeremy Lin's Early, Surprising Success

The Surprising Speeds of Bogans, Hill and Jefferson

This FanPost is inspired by my suggestion that Hill increases the pace of the game and BlaseE's encouragement to look into the numbers to see if my perception is correct.  My observation was that it seems that when Hill gets the ball early the team plays a faster pace as a whole.  If you have no allergic reaction to graphs or plots feel free to continue reading.

Star-divide

(Data obtained from basketballvalue.com)

One way to verify this is to determine how many total possessions (between the two teams) per minute occur when a specific player is on and off the floor.  With these numbers at hand we can take the difference between the two and get a metric that would be positive is the player increases the pace of the game and would be negative if he decreases it.  The chart below summarizes these data:

Ptrpossmin_medium

First of all when Manu is on the floor the speed of the game increases dramatically.  Most of us would expect this after watching Manu play for so many years. 

The most interesting observation however is the position of Jefferson on this chart.  Jefferson decreases the speed of the game more than any Spur that consistently gets any minutes.  This is extremely surprising given that when the Spurs acquired him most of us thought that he would provide the speed and ability to attack the rim that previous Spurs teams so often lacked.  This observation can be interpreted in many ways but one possibility is that Jefferson is being asked to focus on defense and there is some evidence that the Spurs are better defensively when he is on the court.

A second observation that is surprising is the position of Bogans.  There is no other Spur getting consistent playing time (other than Manu) that increases the pace of the game more.  I dont know how I would interpret that but it is a telling statistic.

Coming back to the initial reason for this investigation is the position of Hill.  Hill seems to have little effect on the speed of the game when he is on the court as he does not increase the pace of the team or decreases it appreciably.  It seems like I was wrong in my observation that Hill increases the pace although you would not be able to tell by watching the game.

A tangent of this conversation is the projected starting lineup now that Parker will be out for a few games.  BlaseE pointed at the possibility that we have a line up of Duncan, Hill, Jefferson, Mason and McDyess.  It would seem that a lineup like that would play an extremely slow brand of basketball.  In fact, this combination of players has been on the floor for about 7 minutes the whole season and averaged a total of 3.5 possessions/min (Our most often used lineup averages 3.82 possessions/min).  They went on to score 15 points and allow only 9 in those 7 minutes.

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Interesting info. And Bogans? Really?

by Manu ex Machina on Jan 29, 2010 4:31 PM CST reply actions  

Because we’re dealing with possesions per minute, it’s important to note that Bogans and Manu get more steals(per minute) than anyone else on the team. They also get more defensive rebounds per minute than any of the other guards, even George. In that sense, they actually create more possessions.

suicide > RJ

by Tim C. on Jan 29, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I need to see how this compares with the pace metric estimated on some websites. I wonder what the difference is.

"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG

by LasEspuelas on Jan 29, 2010 5:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for thinking for me, lol.

by Manu ex Machina on Jan 29, 2010 5:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point.

How about turnovers committed? Memory tells me that both have their share, granted many of Manu’s come from trying to make a laser pass whereas Bogans often gets stripped or makes a poor entry pass. That would certainly increase the pace of the game, espicially if such turnovers give the opponent a fastbreak layup within three seconds.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Jan 29, 2010 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

true – Bogans is not very effective on offense or defense – he does not slow the game down like you would want a defender to do, in fact just the opposite – as the pace of the Spurs increase i would bet that the opposing offense is lock step as well – increasing more possessions for them and increased scoring opportunities.

"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html

by Joe deLarios on Jan 29, 2010 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Jefferson

slows the game down because we try to force feed him the ball. Think of his offensive contributions. We run a set play. It takes a while for him to post up. Finally he gets the ball 17ish feet away from the basket. Then he passes the ball out and re-posts. At this point, he normally shoots that funky fade away or drives into the paint and kicks it out to the corner, The ball goes around the horn and someone shoots a three. That takes a lot of time.

"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles

by Fred Silva on Jan 29, 2010 5:45 PM CST reply actions  

My feeling has been that RJ gets ignored in the offense and often ends up with a long jump shot with less than 5 secs on the shot clock. Could be wrong but I notice long stretches where he gets no touches.

You gotta bring ass to get ass.

by SpurredOn on Jan 29, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

But how many times a game does this happen, Fred? My guess is not frequently enough to impact his numbers in a significant way.

Consider the gun jumped
5 in 10

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 29, 2010 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you hating on RJ now? Bonner is getting jealous.

by swgeek on Jan 30, 2010 4:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Also, it would seem turnovers would play a big part in increasing the number of possessions. So maybe it’s that Bogans and Manu both turn the ball over a good amount, and on the other end force turnovers with their defense. That might inflate the number of possessions that take place when they are on the floor versus when they are off.

Another way to approach this would be to see how many seconds, on average, it takes the Spurs to put up a shot each possession when each player in on the floor. My bet is that you would see Hill jump to the top.

"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles

by Fred Silva on Jan 29, 2010 5:53 PM CST reply actions  

It wouldn’t be the first time to see him do that.

Har, har.

Consider the gun jumped
5 in 10

by J.R. Wilco on Jan 29, 2010 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

lol Bonner is all but neutral.

...!!

by transgojobot on Jan 29, 2010 6:50 PM CST reply actions  

I would like to clarify that these are possessions for both teams.

"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG

by LasEspuelas on Jan 29, 2010 7:46 PM CST reply actions  

It would be interesting to see how number of possessions per minute correlates with the Spurs +/-. Are the Spurs still a half-court team or are they better off with faster pace now?
Depending on the answer we should appreciate more Manu & Bogans, who make the game faster, or RJ & Mason, who slow it down.

by Kondor on Jan 29, 2010 10:06 PM CST reply actions  

This was as interesting as I thought.

Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Jan 31, 2010 1:28 AM CST reply actions  

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