Clarin: Manu´s interview: He is quite sure he will be a free agent
by jalberto on Jan 20, 2010 5:17 AM CST
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Print[LD's NOTE: It has been translated into English by LE. Check the comments.]
It was hard for him to face the situation but now Manu is quite sure he will be a free agent by july or august and he will have to decide where to go.
EL BAHIENSE ADELANTA QUE SIENTE TERMINADO SU VINCULO CON LOS SPURS DESPUES DE OCHO AÑOS
"Ya ni espero que me extiendan el contrato"
Le costó enfrentar lo que imaginaba, pero ya lo tiene asumido: Manu no será más un Spurs desde el 1° de julio, después de tres títulos ganados en 8 años. La primicia sale de su boca con palabras imperdibles.
"Estoy bastante seguro de que voy a ser agente libre y de que en julio o agosto tendré que tomar una decisión sobre dónde ir -reconoce--. Ya ni espero que el equipo me ofrezca una extensión del contrato".
¿Te dan señales?
"No, no hubo ninguna señal. La última fue antes de lesionarme el año pasado y no se habló más del tema. En este punto de la temporada no sé si extendería el contrato, depende de la oferta. Pero estoy muy mentalizado para sentarme el 1° de julio con mi agente y mi mujer y ver qué ofertas tengo."
Vos no sos un Spurs cualquiera, por tu rendimiento y la idolatría de la gente. ¿No te pega fuerte que te dejen ir?
"De entrada me pegó porque pensé que la relación era otra. Uno es un poco más romántico. Eso fue el año pasado, pero éste es distinto. Sé cómo están las cartas repartidas y nadie regala nada cuando llega el momento de negociar. Ni la franquicia ni los jugadores. Hay que entender esto como un negocio y hay que saber jugar en él. De entrada estaba dolido, pero ya lo entendí."
San Antonio tuvo dos temporadas de menor rendimiento desde el título de 2007. Hoy se ubica cuarto en la Conferencia Oeste. ¿Cómo lo ve Manu?
"No estamos jugando tan bien como deberíamos a esta altura. Tuvimos muchos altibajos y los seguimos teniendo, así que no te digo preocupado, pero tendríamos que haber sufrido entre 3 y 5 derrotas menos. Esperemos recuperarnos durante el calendario jodido que se viene, porque sabemos que en febrero y marzo no estamos casi nunca en casa. Esperemos no pagar caro las derrotas que tuvimos de local."
Fue muy fuerte haber ganado tres títulos en cinco años. ¿Esperabas un bajón del equipo? ¿Te planteaste si el tiempo de los Spurs había llegado a su fin?
"No llegué a ese momento. Es muy jodido salir campeón de la NBA, ja ja. Ese es el tema. No es que porque no ganamos en dos años cambia mucho. Muchos no lo ganaron en 10 o en 20 y siempre tuvieron chances. Está dentro de las posibilidades. Tenés lesiones, perdés con un tiro increíble o simplemente el rival juega mejor. Tampoco hay que ser tan arrogante de pensar que tenemos que ganar todos los años."
¿Juegan distinto que en la época dorada?
"Ahora que tenemos más talento y vías de gol, tratamos de ser menos esquematizados y darnos más libertad, pero a grandes rasgos somos el mismo equipo. Tratamos de defender igual y cuando cuenta sale a flote la misma identidad que antes."
¿Puede ser que la NBA se haya emparejado y ya no se vea tanta espectacularidad?
"La verdad es que a mí me sigue sorprendiendo día a día lo que veo: el atleticismo de ciertos jugadores, las jugadas que se ven, el talento... Todas las semanas pasa algo que te sorprende."
Como esa jugada en la que te lanzaste sobre los fotógrafos y recuperaste una pelota imposible que terminó en el tiro ganador contra Oklahoma...
"La pelota quedó justo ahí y no tenía otra posibilidad. Me tiré y traté de salvarla. Dejás la vida por una pelota si perdés por un punto en el final. No creo haber hecho nada tan único."
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I’m informing the Spurs that all talks of me extending my contract for season tickets is ended if Manu is not resigned. But I’d also tell Manu to get a new agent. Herb Rudoy, the current agent, seems to not be serving him well – he is also Fabricio’s agent – we saw how well that worked out!
Who are the other players that Herb Rudoy is representing?
by silverandblack_davis on Jan 20, 2010 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
Translation of the first portion. Ill try to finish it tonight.
THE MAN FROM THE BAY PUTS FORWARD THAT HE FEELS HIS LINK WITH THE SPURS HAS ENDED AFTER 8 YEARS
“I dont even expect a contract extension”
It was hard to face what he imagined, but he is already assuming it: Manu will no longer be a Spurs after the first of July, after winning three titles with the organization in 8 years. “Im pretty sure that Im going to be a free agent and thate in July or August I will have to make a decision regarding where to go. I no longer expect a contract extension.”
Do you have any hints that this is the case?
“No, there has been no hints. The last one was prior to getting hurt last year, and we haven discussed the topic anymore. At this point in the season, I dont know if I would accept an extension, it would depend on the offer. But I have made my mind to sit down on the 1st of July with my agent, my wife and evaluate what offers I have.”
You are not any ordinary Spur, because of your performance and how much the people love you. Is it painful that they are letting you go?
“From the start it was painful because I thougth that the relationship was different. Im a little more romantic. That was last year, but this year it is different. I know how the cards have been dealt and no one gifts anything when the time to negotiate has arrived. Not the franchises nor the players. You have to understand this as a business and play within this framework. Initially I felt hurt, but I understand now.”
San Antonio had two seasons with lower performance since the 2007 title. Today they rank fourth in the West. How do you see this situation?
“We are not playing as well as we should be at this point in the season. We had many up and downs and we continue to have them, without worrying I can tell you, that we could have had between 3 and 5 less loses. We hope to recover in the upcoming difficult schedule because we know that in February and March we will almost not be at home. We hope not to pay a high price for our loses at home.”
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
by LasEspuelas on Jan 20, 2010 9:54 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
Thanks a lot, LE.
This line:
At this point in the season, I dont know if I would accept an extension, it would depend on the offer.
Damn. If Manu goes somewhere else I might just burst into tears.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
yes but what does he want. A good contract which allows him to play for his national team while making a few cameos with the Spurs like during the last 2 seasons ?
He has been good to the Spurs. the Spurs have been good to him. No one owes anything to the other.
You and me will someday battle and start a feud that will span generations, biolb.
What do you mean, “what does he want”? He wants a contract extension so that he can keep playing for his team.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I do agree. But he said that it would depend on the offer, which I understand also. It’s a business after all.
What I meant was that he could understand that the Spurs FO would like to see over a significant period of time if his body will hold. I meant also that he could not be extremely demanding since he spent the last two years mostly off the court. So what could look like a bargain (his salary) is not so cheap relatively to the numbers of game played but very cheap compared to what he brought to San Antonio. But, the Spurs will pay for future and not past contributions.
Eh blolb. I hope you don’t really mean that first line per se. National teams are national teams. Its just patriotism.
But besides that, especially in Manu’s case, he gives his all on the court for his teammates. Like he said, he is a bit romantic that way :D I don’t think money matters as much to Manu as playing with the guys he has come to be with like a family.
maybe with Oberto and Bowen gone and Finley, Mason, and/or Bonner on their way out, he feels the family is already broken or different from the one he thought he belonged to…..
Good point.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
by LasEspuelas on Jan 20, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
He might go to Lakerland…the way Manu is, he is more than willing to be second or third banana with a serious contender. Imagine Manu and Kobe playing final minutes…that would be bad for Spurs…
Hope it doesn’t happen, I just love how classy the spurs are, and Manu is a perfect fit for the team
Manu and Kobe in one team would kill me. And kill, they would.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Jan 20, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
One more rec to make this green for everyone to see.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Jan 20, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions
I have never recced myself. I would feel dirty.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
So you mean that thing people do…that should feel dirty?
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Jan 20, 2010 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
Green’d.
LatinD, if you ever get that interview with Manu in the US, you know what to do.
by silverandblack_davis on Jan 20, 2010 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Kidnap and torture him to stay. Just kidding, I’m sure you can convince him or prod him to stay, being a dedicated fan from Argentina :)
by silverandblack_davis on Jan 21, 2010 7:06 PM CST up reply actions
I has a sad.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
by Lauri on Jan 20, 2010 10:41 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Damn! Sadly, i can see why the Spurs have not extended him yet – at the very least they are sending him a message. Pop is probably pissed about Manu wearing himself out playing for his country and not being healthy for the team that pays the bills. However, Manu being Manu is not going to give up playing for his country.
Still, it is Manu. If he is not a spur next year I will be a spurs fan in name only – probably will not follow the team much any more.
Fan Base
There would be a HUGE drop-off in attendance and viewership from SA and South Texas. And there is no one in the league who could make that up. They would be seriously shooting themselves in the ass if they did not resign him. There’s a reason why he’s on more commercials than any other Spur. It’s called demographics.
What a downer… and I was having a good day too.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Jan 20, 2010 10:52 AM CST reply actions
Everything will be just fine
We can’t expect the Spurs to extend him now. We need to know he’s completely healthy before we can determine the length/amount of the extension.
Put yourself in R.C.‘s position. He’s got to make the smart business decision.
At the end of the season we figure out what we need going into next season, prioritize our needs/wants, see if any free-agent acquisitions/trades are out there…. AND offer our expiring contracts an extension if deemed necessary.
That being said, I fully expect Manu to finish the season off strong, get offered a great/fair contract by the Spurs (and a handful of other teams). He’ll decide to stay because S.A. loves him as much as he loves S.A and because he’s the by far the best value for our money.
New member here, but long time reader. I’m going to say something blasphemous now:
I’ve never understood Spurs’ fans fascination with Manu. Sure he has a ton of highlight plays, but he has an insane number of turnovers (where he’s trying to be too clever) or taking contested 3s when he shouldn’t be. If you think about the game against the Thunder, sure he had a fantastic save, BUT he was the one who almost caused a game-losing turnover by making a bad pass to McDyess.
I would not like to lose him for nothing – how about trading him to the Kings for Martin (once we are certain he is injury-free).
ooooooooohhh no you didn’t!
This may not be the best time for that statement, btw.
Manu is the wild card. Ya, he causes some turnovers, but totally disrupts the other team’s game plan and is a positive in so many ways. Without him the Spurs are pretty predictable. My favourite player, and it isn’t even close.
what?
Between Manu, Tony, and Tim… Manu has the least amount of turnovers per game (career). And how many times have we seen him make up for it almost immediately (usually on D)?
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Jan 20, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
If you know the game well, there are only a handful of players in the league that control the game as well as a healthy Manu does. He literally has a hand in every play, offensively and defensively. His turnovers are up because he has not played in two years. He needs to find his rhythm again. It’s no coincidence that last year the Spurs were 32-12 with Manu, and barely a .500 ball club without him. He makes a much bigger impact on the game than most realize.
Our problem is simply his health and his international play. At his age, it is unacceptable for him to be playing year round. That’s really the bottom line. The NBA looks the other way regarding their international players participating during the offseason because one of Stern’s dreams is to go global with the NBA. But the downside is it will, (and has,) shortened the international players’ NBA careers. NBA players’ contracts should specify that if the player is injured playing for another team, their contract can be voided. It makes all the sense in the world that if you make $10 million a year, your employer might specify that you cannot participate in activities that might prevent you from working. I can go all day on this.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
the international players’ NBA careers
There’s a USAian team, too. Just saying.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I think Fred is grouping all people who play internationally games, ie Olympics, into international players. Including Kobe and Tim.
To Fred, the NBA does have such a clause. Mopeds, motorcycles, snowboards, etc. Excluded from that clause is basketball. In particular, pick-up games.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 20, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
if you get injured, your team can void your contract, but the NBA has to pay you all guaranteed money
I like this idea.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 20, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
No comment.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 20, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, I am including the US players that participate internationally. Here is the why that whole thing is a farce. The US basically puts an all star team together that practices infrequently and we expect them to compete against guys that know each other’s games like Manu and Oberto. It’s absurd and sets the US up for a lose, lose scenario. Either our all star team falls short, thus ‘proving’ that international players are superior, or they win, which everyone assumes they should do anyways so they do not get the same credit other nations get.
We would be better off throwing a college all star team out there. Or paying whichever NBA team that won the year before to represent the US in the Olympics. The US team struggles because they are not really a team. Teams have strengths that negate their weaknesses over time. They have a personality. International teams greatly have this because they play with each other forever, excluding the few good enough to make the NBA level.
And Wayne, I know they have a clause, but my point is that it completely overlooks the international play risk. International play should be looked at as a pickup game, because someone risking their health playing for Argentina does nothing for the San Antonio Spurs except increase the liklihood that they will get injured and cost the Spurs very large amount of money.
Basically, it’s my opinion that international play should be identified as the risk it is and that concern should be represented in the contracts that NBA teams offer players that would like to participate in those games. For example, if Manu wants to play next offseason on a bum ankle, then he should go in knowing that if he gets hurt, the Spurs and the NBA will not have to honor his contract. It’s harsh, but it represents the reality of a business much more than the nonsense we have today.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
by Fred Silva on Jan 20, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, but a couple of points:
Or paying whichever NBA team that won the year before to represent the US in the Olympics.
Goodbye defending a title, and we play without Duncan, Parker, and Manu? Lakers play without Pau?
someone risking their health playing for Argentina does nothing for the San Antonio Spurs
It expands their market by creating fans for their players. I doubt this offsets this risk but it is a benefit.
There are ways to get around it. Make it like AAU teams that win state and compete at nationals. When you qualify for nationals, you are able to acquire several players from other teams that did not qualify, thereby upgrading your talent and depth, while allowing the team to still function as a team.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
The Spurs would be a bad example. But the Lakers could replace Gasol with Bosh and you wouldnt know the difference.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
This solution is good for the chances of the US winning the gold but it does not solve the problem of the injury to players. In fact it is worse, because instead of distributing the risk among all teams, you are concentrating in on the champs.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
I agree. I want us to go with the college all star team again. I threw my other idea out there because I think it would level the playing field for the US. But I would much rather the NBA make it as inconvenient and risky as possible for its players to participate in international games.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
“One of you will not return home.”
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Jan 20, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
You gotta look at the other side. “Manu Ginobili” the player exists because of the infrastructure put in by his home country. He learned and played ball there and one could argue, the system in his country groomed him. So finally when he is on the big stage and can contribute, why should some association in the US only reap the benefit of years of money sunk into player development by his home country.
So a player like Manu himself feels obligated to give back in basketball worth. Its just another side of it.
but do you agree that that right to choose to play by him should also give his team the right to cancel his contract if he gets injured if that became standard contract practice?
you can both be right here
Yes. In general terms, there should be some consequence and decreased risk for the teams on par with pickup games.
It really sucks for me as a consumer of the Spurs’ product. If I’m shelling out thousands for tickets, I do not want Manu to get hurt because/while he played during the offseason. Or I want a refund. Last year sucked.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
Your logic is off. If I spend 10 years coaching at a small school, and then sign a big contract to coach Duke, should I still spend a quarter of the year coaching my old school for free? Of course not. I work for whomever is paying me right now.
If you spend 10 years climbing the ladder at your respective company, and get very good. And a competitor hires you and doubles your salary, do you still spend 1 day a week working for your former company for free?
Remember, this is a business. You need to take loyalty out of it, although I realize it’s difficult. If a player is getting paid millions a year to be healthy and improve a team, he should not be allowed to put himself at risk without any consequences.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
Blase understands, I think players should have the option to play internationally, I just think it the risk should be properly reflected in his contract.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
Well, I also understand a country isn’t a company so I don’t really agree with your last point at all.
Basketball becomes a business once you agree to a salary upwards of $225,000 a year to play a sport. If players do not want to seperate their job from nationalistic pride, then their employers should force them to.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
This all sounds good Fred, but imagine life without Manu. Contract like the one you suggest would somewhat hamper the growth of international imports to the NBA. Imagine the last ten years without Manu. The product the Spurs offer decreases substantially.
In the specific case of Manu you could argue that if he was playing healthy for his whole time with the Spurs he would be grossly underpaid. The fact that he plays internationally and does not rest during the off season and therefore gets rests partially counteracts that. Maybe there is a reason why most of us would agree that he is underpaid.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
Nah Fred. This is not a small school vs big school thingy. This is country vs organization. Patriotism vs earning your living.
I come from the best engineering institute in my country. Its batch of 1000 students selected out of 1 mil. Most of us go abroad after bachelors to do phds and all the really good stuff coz you need a corporation or institution with money to build the fun toys. But I am where I am coz of the learning done back home with the best teachers. I do owe my country. For me, its not really an opinion or a choice. There is a term in third world countries for such stuff – brain drain.
I am trying to give you an idea of how I see it. Thats what I meant by ‘he probably feels obligated’. For Manu, its an every summer thing with consequences.
I completely understand the other argument. From a consumer and business point of view, I just think the reality is that NBA teams should be protected if a player wants to risk injury during the offseason by playing for their home country.
If the player is willing to risk their paycheck for their patriotism, (and I am sure Manu would.) then that’s fine. I just do not like the current environment where the employer and consumer get stuck with the bill and the player is not held accountable.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
That I agree.
I would also like a model where teams are not forced to overpay mediocre players just to keep them away from the prying hands of the rich lakers etc. Modifications to the current model demanding increased accountability from both player and team, am all for it. Hey, even Pop sitting Timmeh on certain nights, even though I am all for it, I don’t think its right for the consumers.
Also, he has to return to this country, and he might even want to raise his kids here. I don’t know how it is elsewhere, but here national teams are before anything else. Gino didn’t become a national hero because he won something at Kinder Bologna, or because he has some rings with the Spurs – most people don’t even know that.
But everybody knows what our guys did in the World Championships and the Olympics. Immortality, guys.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
this is hard to type and even think, but I’d rather watch a 50 win team that loses in the first or second round of the playoffs with Manu than win a chip and have to watch our team without him/watch him on another team (sometimes against us)
it’s a business, but at some point you have to say, “these are our guys and we love them and our fans love them and we win when they win and we lose when they lose and when they can’t win and they can’t lose, we retire their numbers.”
Manu is about to have his first kids so his wife and he will really be choosing where to raise their kids for the first 3-5 years of their lives. It’s a big decision even before money amounts come into play.
by BlaseE on Jan 20, 2010 11:24 AM CST reply actions 6 recs
it’s a business, but at some point you have to say, "these are our guys and we love them and our fans love them and we win when they win and we lose when they lose and when they can’t win and they can’t lose, we retire their numbers."
This is exactly how I feel. Thanks, BlaseE.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
With all due respect to you, David, you’ve made that same point dozens of times, but he just said it better than you ever have.
Well done, BlaseE. That was well put, and it stirred my heart.
However, as a Spurs fan, I have to say that I’m in the camp that would rather win a chip without him, even if it means having to watch the Spurs play against him from time to time.
But it would mean that I’d be following some other NBA team regularly, just to catch as much of his delicious highlights as I could.
Consider the gun jumped
5 in 10
You couldn’t have said it any better. I think this thread is gonna make me cry.
by silverandblack_davis on Jan 20, 2010 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure what all the drama is about. I don’t think there is anything new here. I don’t think many people thought the Spurs were going to extend him during the season. If they don’t offer him an extension, he becomes a free agent. Big whoop. Not getting an extension is completely different than not getting a contract offer.
I think Manu would be disappointed in all of you for the interpretation of this article.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 20, 2010 11:51 AM CST reply actions
Am not sure where you are coming from thinking this is all very plain and right in front for all to see. I for one thought the FO will prob extend him at some point between playoffs and after trade deadline.
I don’t recall any player ever getting an extension in that time window. Do you? I don’t ever recall any Spur getting an extension mid-season. Maybe a couple in the first few weeks of the season, but that is it.
Well, the article is written in some pretty shady terms.
"I dont even expect a contract extension"
It was hard to face what he imagined, but he is already assuming it: Manu will no longer be a Spurs after the first of July, after winning three titles with the organization in 8 years. "Im pretty sure that Im going to be a free agent and thate in July or August I will have to make a decision regarding where to go. I no longer expect a contract extension."
Notice what is quoted. “I don’t even expect a contract extension.” Then the writer of the article says, “but he is already assuming it: Manu will no longer be a Spurs after the first of July.” There is nothing Manu says in this article that supports that statement. AT ALL. Manu just says he thinks he will be a free agent. He doesn’t say he won’t be a Spur. He doesn’t say the Spurs won’t offer him a contract.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 20, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought extensions happen when they finally happen. Coz extensions usually happen early and there is no real deadline, one usually hears of it after the busy days of the playoffs or at any point really during the season. For a guy playing in the playoffs, you don’t usually hear of extension signings during that period.
In my opinion, Manu was always a bargain all these years and the FO will probably try to make it even more of a bargain now. But now Manu has said he is not too amenable to extension talks from the Spurs FO. That changes everything that I was hoping for about all that getting wrapped up before the playoffs.
Isn’t there a league-mandated deadline for contract extensions? Aside from the expiry date of the contract, of course.
by silverandblack_davis on Jan 20, 2010 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
it’s new to me that Manu is saying he expects to be a free agent and expects to be picking where he goes
sure, nothing has technically changed from yesterday, but I think Manu has opened up more in this interview than previous
Well, did you expect him to get a contract extension this season?
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 20, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
I’m with the bossman on this. The Spurs aren’t going to offer an extension during the season. However, that doesn’t mean they won’t offer another contract after the season. Manu can still be a Spur, it’s just a matter of the FO determining money and length, and they can’t do that until the season plays out.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
Then why give this interview? And let’s say this is all just in the way it’s written, shady, subject to interpretation, etc. — why? What is the author’s motive?
Is this just standard maneuvering?
(These aren’t rhetorical questions; I’m genuinely curious, being relatively unschooled in the ways of NBA contract machinations.)
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
These machinations are generally more common in MLB and the NFL, where the team and the player both use the media to air their side of the story. As for why Manu gave the interview, I don’t know. Maybe he just wants to reassure his fans that he’d like to remain with the Spurs.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
In my opinion, Manu has integrity and honesty. He’s not one to dodge questions. He’s not one to dodge interviews.
I think the author’s motive is to create sensationalism. I believe JanieAnnie has expressed on a few occasions that Manu has posted on his site that he is frustrated/disappointed with the way the Argentine media crafts their stories. Especially, regarding his playing time. I don’t think this is any different.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 20, 2010 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
That doesn’t jibe at all with the fact that Manu himself just posted this article on his Facebook and Twitter accounts. If he thought the article was sensationalistic or didn’t accurately reflect his true state of mind, why further publicize it?
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
I don’t think is sensationalistic as much as it is one-sided. Argentine newspaper always do that with Argentine players in the NBA and especially with Manu.
They take the local player’s side and make everyone else a villain. There’s no objectivity.
Basically, the Spurs are the villains of this story for not extending Manu, just like they were villains for having concerns about him playing in the past Olympics before that. There’s no context as to why there was no extension, no explanation of why it’s hard for the Spurs to extend Manu, no explanation of the Salary Cap implications,etc. The focus of the story is that the Spurs did Manu wrong and now he’s leaving.
In reality Manu is not categorical in any of his statements. He never says that he’s leaving. He says that he will become a fee agent and evaluate his options. That’s it.
But Argentine newspaper don’t seem to fully grasp the concepts of free agency and the salary cap and things like that. So they oversimplify everything: Manu will become a free agent = he’s leaving the Spurs. They don’t even consider the possibility of him re-signing.
I would rather watch Manu Ginobili go scoreless than 98 percent of the league get career highs
by Edg5 on Jan 20, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh and I think he publicizes it because he also talks about the national team and other Argentine players. It was probably intended for Argentine people.
I would rather watch Manu Ginobili go scoreless than 98 percent of the league get career highs
He posts a bunch of Spanish stuff doesn’t he. Some of his posts he never bothers to translate, and I just assume its intended for a different audience.
My above comment is basically derived from my opinion of Manu over the years. If he is not happy about it, he basically says so. I will be surprised if Manu decided he is going to use media to put pressure on Spurs FO. I am really ok with taking this as Manu simply answering honestly, as he usually does.
Yeah, I realize that. But if this was intended for an Argentine audience only, he would not be broadcasting on a public forum.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
I think Lion’s theory is that he uses it in many ways. But I don’t disagree with you.
Regardless, after Manu’s clarification, I think we’ve done much ado about not-nothing but not-all-that-something.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Manu’s clarification? What did I miss?
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
As for the substance of the interview, manu is right when he says it’s a business thing and the necessity of it, even though it looks bad and feels bad to have duncan, parker, RJ and dice all signed and paid (or overpaid, in the case of Jefferson). The spurs got manu on the cheap for years during his first years in the NBA. Rather than correcting it with a long-term deal they’ve basically continued to stiff him relative to his value.
To Peter Holt and the ownership group, there is absolutely a reason to wait until the season’s over before signing any new contracts or extensions. Anything could happen during this season, and the worst thing of all would be to have a bad short-term reality (no finals run in 2010, poor prospects for next year) and a have no flexibility because your 1-6 guys alone put you 90% under the luxury cap.
You can say the Spurs should sign him right away and I agree, but I’m also sympathetic to the owners here. Considering how bad of a year 2009 was for them they don’t just stand to lose their investment here, they stand to lose their shirts trying to play in the luxury tax every season.
A lot of ppl who oppose international basketball tournaments will tell you, in hindsight Manu’s contract has worked out in some ways fair to both sides coz he got hurt while playing for his country and he got paid for nothing. So bargain value balances injured player bleeding the books. In hindsight.
no manu
I was a spurs fan back when we lost every year in the first round to utah. Before I knew who tim duncan was I fell in love with the SPURS, and the Admiral david robinson, and as time went by I started loving other players. For a while no one in my mind was better than Sean Elliott,when he was traded it was a very sad day in my life, but it brought us Bowen. Then I met MANU who is the greatest talent I have every seen. One day he will leave, either retire or sign elsewhere, and i will be sad but my love for the spurs will continue.
by bigtee34 on Jan 20, 2010 1:14 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Bump the preview
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Jan 20, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
in general
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Jan 20, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
manu will stay, but only if he takes a pay cut. Same thing will probably be said of Duncan and RJ when their contracts run out in a couple years too. Manu is stlil a great player, but he is no longer able to do everything he used to be able to do. I love him and the way he plays, but it is time to admit that. I hope he stays and i hope he gets a reasonable contract, but if he’s wanting to keep making what he’s making now, he’s either going to have to rest in the offseason (i know that cant be written into contracts) or start producing as much as he used to, including the points.
That being said, he has improved as the season has gone on, and i expect that trend to continue.
Duncan is the only one of our main guys earning his salary right now. His per minute numbers are the best of his career. I know PtR is the Manu loving site, but the Spur i treasure most is Timmy. Yall can have the sizzle, but i’ll take the steak any day.
Yall can have the sizzle, but i’ll take the steak any day.
Really, it just isn’t that simple. Not even sure if there is a correct answer. Whatever happens is what Manu is willing to accept, and that as we all know is a lot for the good of the team. Tell me one player who is willing to take whatever role is needed for winning at Manu’s price with his capability even in his diminished play right now.
Funny you bring up Duncan’s contract expiring. I was talking to a co-worker about that at lunch today. I think he should sign another contract for his kids. Obviously not because of the money, but so they can see him play and actually have real memories of it. Not to show off or so that their prideful of him either, but more because if my dad was a pro athlete, I’d always wish I could have seen him play. Duncan needs to sign a contract with the Spurs when he wants to retire that is for like $5-8 million per year but he gets a huge payout if they play him more than 20 mpg in the regular season. I think he could easily play until he is 40 if he wanted to though and especially if he ever took a role player type of contract by choice to just come off the bench. Who knows what he wants though. When people ask him about records and achievements like 20,000 points, his answers are always depressing.
Save this discussion until 5-6 months from now. In the meantime, if such talk spreads in the media, it will become a major distraction.
heh…Manu just posted the article on facebook
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Jan 20, 2010 2:53 PM CST reply actions
I don’t know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but Manu went public with this to put pressure on the FO. Come on, man. We’re trying not to suck over here. The Spurs do not need distractions right now.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
Maybe it’s an apples to oranges comparison, but the Pau Gasol extension could’ve had an effect on Manu’s perception on this contract extension thing. Or maybe it’s just his agent wanting him to do this.
by silverandblack_davis on Jan 20, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t know. I assume the FO has analysts on this as we speak. Some risk/reward calculation. What are the odds the he stays healthy? How many games will he play each season? How many more wins will the Spurs get? How do those wins translate to attendance/TV audience/ sponsors? The list would be very long.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
* Clicks on article *
* Reads translation*
* Tries to find happy place *
* Can’t find happy place *
* Does drugs *
I don’t know why you guys are worrying, everything seems alright to me.
"Under the tutelage....of Randy Tutelage"
by Hipuks on Jan 20, 2010 3:51 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Wait. So he will be an unrestricted free agent after this season (assuming no contract extension)?
Which of these things is not like the others? 15 NBA Championships, most wins in NBA history, current NBA champion, lost by 20 to the F'ing Spurs.
Yeah olf. And I doubt what yer thinking happens. Spurs fans will be jumping off cliffs etc. Hipuks above will have to take up a job with a cartel to keep his supply on par with his need then.
Thanks that was a sincere question. It sounded like it & just wanted to make sure.
Contract stuff is always difficult. Never more difficult than when the player has been such a big part of a team.
Which of these things is not like the others? 15 NBA Championships, most wins in NBA history, current NBA champion, lost by 20 to the F'ing Spurs.
Playing for flag & country
Contrary to the views of others, I really dont see the need to amend current NBA player contract rules to limit playing for their country. In hine sight Manu is paying for the consequences for playing for Argentina ( din’t get an extension due to injury ) , From a owners/ employers perspective you hire/ offer contracts based on the circumstances or what you know of the player. I mean you hire a marine reserve for a civilian job at your own risk. If you find that risk too high then offer him what you can afford. As to the employee if you feel your other activities ( serving country ) is a hindrance to getting the best offer you can get. That’s a decision you have to make. Not some legal contract or law. Basically you can’t legistlate one’s right to play for country
Yes, you can. The NBA already stipulates that players cannot drive mopeds, play in pick up games, etc. Corporations stipulate that their CEO’s cannot drive motorcycles, participate in extreme sports, etc. If you pay someone millions, and the success of your business rests on them, you should have the right to protect yourself if they want to put themselves at risk.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
I’m not saying you can’t, but in the same token the employee has the right to refuse such stipulations. So your back to what is agreeable to both parties, thus there is no need to legistlate stipulations as a must have.
Another lockout is on the horizon and Stern will rule with an iron fist after. The players need their paychecks. The owners that pay them can wait for them to agree to Stern’s new laws much longer than the players are capable of. I hope Stern addresses this issue, although i doubt he will. Because, as I started out saying, Stern’s dream is to take the NBA global and international fans are critical to his dream.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
The thought that you compare playing for one country to riding mopeds just sounds bad. Patriotism is something that you cannot legislate or quantify. But, I agree that there should be a mechanism where there is a downside for the NBA players for taking the risk of playing during summer and getting injured.
Manu says:
No lei todo el trade, pero solo comento lo que quise decir con “Ya no espero que los Spurs renueven mi contrato”:
Aca renovar, se le llama a extender el contrato antes que expire, o sea… creo que voy a ser un free agent, sí. Pero dentro de las posibilidades a futuro, es que como free agent, firme con los Spurs nuevamente. Se entiende??
Repito, no creo que me extiendan, pero eso no significa que mis días en San Antonio estén terminados si no lo hacen. Existe alguna posibilidad que, tanto como yo, analicen el mercado y terminen firmandome de nuevo. A eso me refería.
Basically, he’s saying he just doesn’t think his contract will be renovated. But he certainly doesn’t rule out signing with the Spurs once he becomes a free agent.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
that’s right, stop the chatter now. The spurs always surprise with their decisions, you never know about a new signing or extension until it happens. Remember the Jefferson trade? It came out of nowhere.
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
The ramifications of this discussion are greater than Manu and the Spurs. Last time around, Cuban attempted to dissuade his international players from participating. And when Tony barely turned his ankle, the Spurs forced him to come back to TX for tests. Did they really think that the turn was more severe than it looked and his French doctors diagnosed? No. They didn’t want him playing during the offseason and forced him to take two weeks off to rest it.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
This is also interesting, from his recent Q&A with his fans here:
¿No te parece un poco ingrato el que todavía no te hayan renovado luego de darle tanto a la franquicia?
Esto es un negocio muy grande y con mucha plata en juego. Nadie regala nada, ni las franquicias, ni los jugadores.
I hate translating. Sigh.
“Don’t you feel it’s a bit ungrateful for the [Spurs’ FO] not to have renewed [your contract] after giving the franchise so much?”
“This is a big business and a lot of money is at stake. No one gives anything away, not the franchises, not the players.”
Pretty much what we were saying.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I have read the entire article, and it almost seems as if the writer is purposefully putting a negative spin on Manus words…
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
Yeah, same thought. Those kinds of questions invite slander.
by silverandblack_davis on Jan 20, 2010 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
For everyone freaking out, read this by Monroe at the Express News.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
I feel like the Spurs organization has long been seen as a franchise that empathizes with players national pride. And with that it has and will continue to give us an edge with signing non-US players which is a huge advantage; typically Euro players fit into the Spurs system better.
If we play hard ball with Manu, who has done so much for the Spurs franchise, then the ramifications will run deep through foreign basketball veins. Let all the other clubs add stipulations preventing players from participating in national games, and let the Spurs reap the benefits of creating an aura of good will.
"I will five all over this blog." - JRW
Just because I don’t expect the Spurs to extend my contract before it expires does not mean my days as a Spur are over
There, Manu said it himself. So, lets just give it a rest till June guys, lively discussion though… =D
Bring it on!!!
I dunno. I think we should all be a little worried.
Manu is at a crossroads of sorts. He is about to become a father to twins. Hes fabulously wealthy. Hes a legend in his home country, and his body doesnt let him do what he used to do on a regular basis. He might just decide he wants to raise his children in Argentina, and say " F$CK the NBA , I cans still play for the my National team "
I think he might decide to call the NBA quits solely for the aformentioned reasons, and just use the lack of negotiations as an excuse to do it.
Hate to be a downer. I hope Im just trippin.
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
Nah, Manu has said many times that he doesn’t want to retire for at least 3 more seasons.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Article Manu posted on Facebook
The article Manu posted on Facebook was not the same one that started this thread, but another appearing in Clarin the same day about his participation in the World Championships next summer. Yes, there are links from that article to the free agency article, but I’m sure Manu was posting the World Championship article for his Argentine fans. He also answered questions on his website forum this week, and many were from Argentines worried about whether he would participate in the World’s.
Clearly the topic is done with but I just have to put in my two cents....
I love Manu! I am as big a Manu fan as their has ever been and I watch the bat highlight on a regular basis on Youtube. I mean really??? The guy killed a bat with his bare hands?!?! He is a basketball genius and is clearly one of the top 15-20 players on the planet when healthy. Also, he does plays that not even Jordan or Kobe could imagine up with all their athleticism. He is a revolutionary player and has made his impact on the NBA forever. (That was a long disclaimer)
With all of the above being mentioned I would like to see the Spurs hang up another championship banner in the next 2 seasons and at this point it seems all but a lost cause. Timmy is still solid on offense but his defense is lacking and Tony for all his great abilities will never be anything more than a decent defender in this league. I know letting go of Manu would be hard but letting go of mister 20,000 would be heresy after all he has done for this city. Manu has been an extraordinary talent and will be missed by Spurs fans everywhere and I hope that he is able to retire a Spur. Still, I can’t really blame the Spurs for not resigning him at the end of the year because he is 32, has been injury prone and we need to build for the future. If we cant get it done this year. Tim can stay as long as he likes because TD is TD…. Manu is a great player and I would hate to see him leave but it might be a good business decision for the Spurs. That being said, "I’ll flip-flop one last time and remind everybody that Manu has played for considerably below market value since 2005. If Manu leaves you can’t blame Manu and you can blame the Spurs but would it really be a bad decision from the standpoint of building toward the ultimate goal? I know this site is MANULAND but I’m just looking for honest responses.
Manu's Contract Extension - The Objective Analysis You've Been Waiting For
OK, I have been thinking about how the Spurs have approached Manu’s contract extension. Here’s why the Spurs have approached it the way they have. (Man I can’t believe I have spent my precious and dwindling brain cycles on this.)
Risks of Spurs’ approach:
Start with the obvious. The Spurs LOVE Manu and Manu loves the Spurs. Add that to the NBA’s economic climate and Manu’s injuries in recent years and that means the risk of Manu going to play for another team is lower than usual.
Rewards of Spurs’ approach:
The Spurs already have Manu playing for them this season and carry the risk of his further injury throughout that time. But by waiting to resign him, they essentially transfer the risk of injury impacting future seasons to Manu.
Other Considerations:
Obviously Olympics / Worlds play is important but I am sure the Spurs are frustrated by related injuries to Manu and others. I read somewhere Manu discussing the possibility of playing internationally again this summer. But if the Spurs say he can’t play then they look like “bad guys”. But without a contract extension in place Manu would essentially have to assume the risk of such play himself.
Anyway, from a non-emotional business perspective that is what is going on with Manu’s contract extension. (Don’t bother to thank me. :)
Which of these things is not like the others? 15 NBA Championships, most wins in NBA history, current NBA champions, lost by 20 to the F'ing Spurs.
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