What is a Point Guard?

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Aug 9, 2009 8:10 AM CDT Comment 39 comments

RamblingSpur hypothesized in a recent Fanpost that Richard Jefferson could be our 3rd point guard behind Tony and George. It got me thinking, "what is a point guard and what do they do for the Spurs?"

Admittedly, the role of the point guard is something I have been thinking about for quite some time. In fact, I believe I had a long discussion about it with Mike Lisboa from BSotS in Las Vegas.

I believe there are three separate roles the Spurs ask of their point guards. Well, three separate roles that they can ask their point guards to fill. In reality, you could have three separate people doing them. But, at any given time, these three things have to be getting done on the court. Sometimes, we ask the point guard to do them.

Point Guard Defense

This is the most boring and obvious one. Somebody has to defend the other team's point guard. Depending on the offensive strengths and weaknesses of the other team's point guard, we can put several different people on him. In the past, we have used Bruce Bowen against point guards for stretches and our PG has had to cover somebody else. I don't think we would have ever considered Bruce our point guard in these situations.

In a matchup with the Lakers this year, we could put Manu on Fisher if George is the other guard and he could spend time on Kobe. Or, in the past, we could have played Brent Barry against Fisher and Manu against Kobe.

My point is: you have to consider the defensive matchup when you talk about your point guard.

Create Offense

Brandon Roy creates offense. As do Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, and LeBron James. Gilbert Arenas creates offense too, usually for himself. These guys all are used as an offensive catalyst on the perimeter. All of them can dribble. All of them can pass. All of them can shoot. However, this doesn't make them point guards. They are offensive initiators. It is their ability to beat their man and create shots for themselves and others that makes them exceptional.

Many teams use their point guard as the creator of their offense. Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Jameer Nelson come to mind. This is where the term "point guard" gets mixed in with "scoring guard". However, a point guard doesn't have to create offense to do their job. Derek Fisher is the Lakers point guard and he's effective. Kirk Hinrich is a competent point guard. Jason Kidd is a very good point guard also.

Ball Handler

I believe the primary role of a point guard is to get the ball across half court and to get the team into their half court offense. It sounds simple, but I don't believe it is. The ability to do only that task is what kept Jacque Vaughn in the NBA for 48 years. What happens if you don't have somebody that can get that task done? I'll tell you what happens. Beno Udrih happens.

Yes, our good buddy Beno. Every Spurs fan who was around in 2005 remembers the Finals and what happened to Beno. I'm not here to say Beno folded. I'm not going to say that Beno was a terrible ball handler. I am going to say that it is the best example of the value of having a good ball handler. Ok, not a good ball handler. Beno was a GOOD ball handler. It's an example of NOT having an elite ball handler.

In the 2005 Finals against the Pistons, Detroit had Lindsey Hunter on their bench. Hunter's specialty was his harassing defense. When the Spurs took Tony Parker out of the game and went to Beno, the Pistons put Hunter on Beno for full court pressure, and their defense cranked up the intensity. In short, Hunter was a better defender than Beno was a ball handler. The result was that the Pistons got turnovers and layups, and the Spurs got routed nearly every time Udrih took the court. (This is one of the main reasons that full court pressure is so much more prevalent at lower levels of competition. The ball handlers aren't nearly as good.)

The Spurs were unable to get the ball up court and into their offense successfully. Obviously, a team can't score if they can't do this. How did the Spurs solve this problem? Some people might say they made Brent Barry the point guard. But that's not what they did. Or, at least, is was only part of it. What they did was come up with a rule. That rule was: If Tony Parker is not in the game, then whoever is NOT guarded by Lindsey Hunter has to bring the ball up. Or, to put it another way, our second best ball handler is now our point guard because Hunter is better than our best ball handler when that best ball handler isn't Tony Parker.

Now, to be sure, Lindsey Hunter is an extreme case. However, it's not just individual man-to-man pressure that a point guard has to handle. They also have to handle traps both full court and half court. At times last year, George Hill struggled with all three. Full court man-to-man. Full court traps. Half court traps. When he struggled, we ended up with Bruce bringing the ball up court or a turnover. Neither of which is conducive to the Spurs scoring.

Why don't teams do this against Tony? Well, a couple reasons. One, Tony is a very good dribbler. He is very difficult to trap because of both his handle and quickness. Because of this, he can frequently beat the trap on his own, which puts the Spurs in a 5 on 3 situation. If the other team puts full court man-to-man pressure on Tony, Tony is usually fast enough to blow by his man which leads to a 5 on 4 situation. In short. Tony is dangerous offensively. The Spurs run a lot of very high screens to be able to have him shake his man and attack a big at the free throw line. Why would the other team GIVE them this situation by employing a full court press? The answer is, they don't.

Therefore

So, when you ask "Who is the team's third point guard?" or, "Is Marcus Williams a point-forward?" then I want to know what you expect them to do.

For instance, in RamblingSpur's post about using Richard Jefferson he says that Manu and Roger can play off the ball. My question is, why have Jefferson bringing up the ball when Manu and Roger are better ball handlers? The only reason to have Jefferson getting the ball up court is if Manu and Roger are facing exceptional defenders or traps they can't handle.

In the case of Marcus Williams, who is he covering on defense? Can he handle the ball against Artest or Kobe? Can he handle a trap? I don't know the answer because I haven't seen him try. I'm just saying the point guard has several roles and you have to consider how they fit into each of them and which teammates are on the floor.

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Great Read

This was such a nice read on a Sunday morning. It’s pretty rare to read someone knowledgeable about the game online, or at least I haven’t found much of this kind of writing. Lots of yahoo fan boasting and cheering, sure. And it’s great when fans root for their teams and speculate about the coming season, don’t get me wrong. But it’s refreshing to read such a thoughtful piece as this one. Basketball is, for my money, the most beautiful of all sports when it’s played well. The more you learn about its intricacies and methods, the more satisfying the game becomes to watch. I’ll take a well executed backdoor cut over a highlight reel dunk any day. Anyway, keep up the great work, Vore.

by quincyscott on Aug 9, 2009 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i like this a lot

13 points in 39 seconds. Enough said.

by Duhoh on Aug 9, 2009 10:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Great thoughts, ATS. This is why I was happy with Cubits’ performance in Summer League. He was the primary ball handler and showed an improvement in that role. He has shown the ability to play good defense. Since he will probably be playing some with Manu, Hill won’t have to create as much on the offensive end, although I do like his ability to drive the lane. At this point, we just need a competent backup to Tony. Tony showed his capability to carry a much greater load last year, but a decent backup would be nice. I have high hopes for the second unit this year.

My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri

by CapHill on Aug 9, 2009 12:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t like the results of Roger Mason experiment at the 1. Even if Manu and Tony sit, George will be in the game, and it is much more beneficial(long term and short) to have him bring up the ball in the season. Once playoffs start, I hope Pop finds a way to sit Manu and TP alternatively.

Assuming the Playoff Starting Lineup is
Tony Parker, Roger Mason, Richard Jefferson, Timmy D, Antonio Dice

then the 10 man rotation would finish with
Manu, Finley, Dejuan Blair, George Hill/Finley (depending on the match ups) , and Haislip/Bonner (again based on the match ups)

I think that the spurs should play Tony and Manu the latter half of the first quarter, and sit Tony and play Manu in the second. Then play Parker coming out of the half for most of the third, and again play them both in the end of the game.

If pop does the same with TD and RJ, then we could conceivably have 2-3 of the Big 4 at a time, and play all 4 to end the game.

4 championships and counting ...
Go Spurs!

by forgoten69 on Aug 9, 2009 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Liked the analysis, ATS. We’ll see what Marcus has to offer, but for the moment we only have two points.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Aug 9, 2009 3:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Otstanding Analysis

Grate explanation of how Tony breaks the double teams, and other players have such problems. I think George will have a better year, but still have some problems with double teams. But being aware of that situation should help in planning to have a ‘work-around’ solution.
ATS, thanks for the post!

by LakehillsFan on Aug 9, 2009 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you just changed my world (relating to point guards)

by Micheal S on Aug 9, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Excellent analysis and your dead on about the role of the PG, and sure RJ bringing up the ball would probably be more of a liability than Manu or Mason, but it all depends up what the matchups are. RJ is probably a capable enough ball handler to be our 3rd option bringing the ball up the floor against most teams and if they try to trap him he should be vet savvy and a good enough passer to pass out of them enough that most teams wouldn’t try it. The spurs pretty much always send an off man to help the ball up the back court if we’re getting pressure even if it is Tony as PG.

But to answer your question of why you might want RJ doing it instead of Manu or Mason, its because comparatively speaking, the two of them are better shooters IMHO than RJ is and RJ isn’t that deficient of a ball handler and is at least a better passer than Mason though not Manu.

Either way, you could have Manu/Tony/Geogie take the ball up and set RJ/Ian/McDyess/Haislip/Bonner up at half court to distribute. The real value of the offense I was outlining was to create lots of space inside the 3 point line for Timmy, draw the opposing 4/5 out to the top of the court and punish teams that played more than one BIG, this would be especially useful beating the Lakers because Bynum would never be able to play with Gasol in this formation if they wanted to be effective defensively, which would hamper them offensively. You’re right though, this offense can only work if the job of ball handler is out sourced to one of the guards who then becomes a free SG after he turns over the responsibility of creating offense to a big guy. Great insight there.

by RamblingSpur on Aug 9, 2009 7:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Excellent

Excellent analysis.

Roger Mason is good enough to bring up the ball during the regular season. Unfotunately, he’s not an elite ball handler.

George Hill is an even worse ball handler than Roger Mason.

It’s sad that Manu may just be our best ball handler right after Parker.

by ceperez on Aug 9, 2009 7:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Great post:

IMO the point guard is a player who initiates the offense, the guy who has the control of the game in his hands.

only 2 guys can play the point for the spurs: Manu and Parker

George is getting there, but his not quite ready yet, but I expect him to be a big part of the rotation.

I dont want to see the experiment with mason again, he cant play the point, he looks lost out there, he is not brent barry.

And Jefferson, the guy is a scoring small forward and a decent defender, Pop is not going to make the Mason mistake with Jefferson. He does not have the skills to play the point

by spursfan87 on Aug 9, 2009 8:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

great analysis. I think you hit it spot on in terms of what the spurs expect from their point guard position. Now if only we can figure out what is a poing guard.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Aug 9, 2009 8:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Comprende?

by alamobro on Aug 9, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep, gotcha.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Aug 9, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was really good old man, it was easy to read and very informative, I think I actually learned something about basketball.
Now for my crude analysis, wasn’t what you mentioned exactly the problem with Mason? If I remember right, when they put man-to-man pressure on Mason, he would hurry across the half court, then stop. Then for the next 6 or 7 seconds look for someone to pass the ball to.

He did that a lot, and our offense stagnated as a result. He also had a lot of turnovers when he tried to dribble his way out of those situations. Sometimes Timmeh ended up being the one creating the offense because otherwise the ball would not move at all.
Maybe I’m just remembering his mistakes.

My tapeworm tells me what to do.

by Hipuks on Aug 9, 2009 9:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks whippersnapper.

That’s not how I remember it, but I’m old. What I remember is Roger running a lot of high pick-and-roll and him not being very good at it. This is the ‘Creates Offense’ part I was talking about. My impression is Roger struggled with that part. I don’t remember him struggling with getting the ball up court, but I very well could be mistaken.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Aug 9, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Being the PTR member that coined the term " Poing" Guard, i reserve the right to define it.

“Poing” guard….. (poh-uh-eeng) guard i.e.

A postition held by a player in the game of basketball. Usually by a smaller, quicker athlete with exceptional ball-handling skills, killer good-looks and a smoking-hot celebrity wife. She may be of any ethnic descent. (But preferably latin…my, those latinas…). “Poing” is a play on the fact that said player usually gets to “poing” said smokin hot wife,preferably AFTER the game. (Despite its euphoric inducing properties, it has been speculated that the activity of “poinging” also robs one of vital game-time energy….)

by alamobro on Aug 9, 2009 9:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Your “latin” comment disturbs me.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Aug 9, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The rest of the comment too.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Aug 9, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Despite its euphoric inducing properties, it has been speculated that the activity of "poinging" also robs one of vital game-time energy

Uh huh. So is this the reason why Marko Jaric sucks so much?

I’m pretty sure it robs you of the vital game time energy. I wasn’t ever an athlete in high school, but I did join the wrestling team after a best friend of mine (who was captain of the team) convinced me to join. Weighing only 140 pounds, and being 5’11 at the time, I was too skinny and lanky to be a good wrestler. Nevertheless, I did manage to compete against other school’s wrestlers in tournaments a few times (injury to starting wrestler in my weight class). My friend told me, just like our coach told him some time ago, that it’s not good to have sex, or anything like that before a match (I think the night before is okay though). Unfortunately, my opponent took that and reversed it to his advantage. I don’t know how, but he had managed to get a fairly obvious erection right before our match in order to build up his testosterone. To this day, the second most awkward moment in my life. Suffice to say I lost: both the match and my dignity. Wrestling was never the same, and I quit shortly after.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Aug 9, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

After reading that, I must thank you for choosing not to relate your life’s first most awkward moment.

I am truly grateful.

From under the radar to hanging in the rafters - Big50
5 in 10

by jollyrogerwilco on Aug 9, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m glad you’re grateful. You should also be grateful that I didn’t expand upon the actual gritty details of the match, and what I was thinking throughout the 4 or so minutes. My friends or at least those who were there to witness it, are grateful that it occurred too, but not while it was going on. As stated, it was just awkward.

Also, I made a pact with myself to never tell my life’s most awkward moment so don’t worry.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Aug 9, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

…and LD was disturbed at MY comments……?? =o0

by alamobro on Aug 9, 2009 10:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m disturbed at the reply FAIL. =]

TLO, looks like you’ve finally been successful in passing it on to another. Congrats, alamobro, we’ve all been there. Please use it in good health.

From under the radar to hanging in the rafters - Big50
5 in 10

by jollyrogerwilco on Aug 10, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks JRW,

I sometimes wish that I gave more of an effort, and would go to different SBnation blogs in order to pass along this e-disease, causing only slightly annoying havoc to others. In the meantime, I guess I’ll have to settle for leaving the salt and pepper shakers unscrewed while at restaurants in the real world. Hmm… I wonder what are the restaurants in the fake world.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Aug 10, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve heard that Rufus on Fire makes a mean hoagy.

From under the radar to hanging in the rafters - Big50
5 in 10

by jollyrogerwilco on Aug 10, 2009 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, first time there, and it’s Pops Mensah-Bonsu, or Bonsai (0:17) as I like to call him, on the front page. I loved Mensah-Bonsu, and wish the Spurs would’ve kept him instead of getting Gooden last year. I even wrote a small post about that specific game to Graydon that he put up on 48MoH. Anyways the hoagy looks so delicious at this time of the day.

I don’t understand why the blog is called Rufus on Fire, or how that pertains to the blog, but I’m expecting a response soon.

Haha, electronic restaurants.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Aug 10, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought a point guard was just the shortest guy on the team….

Consider me enlightened.

by BlaseE on Aug 10, 2009 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I loved this. Being relatively new to basketball, I like having the concepts explained in depth. I feel smarter now! Thanks, ATS.

WWTD?

by Lauri on Aug 10, 2009 10:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

great post and an insightful read, as everyone else already stated. it’s these kind of posts that i really enjoy, so thanks a lot!

by znimrod on Aug 10, 2009 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Great read grandpa. Hopefully Georgie is young and will improve enough for popvich to let him handle the pressure of being THE point guard off the bench

"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"

by Chilai on Aug 10, 2009 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

With tongue firmly in cheek...

I may have the answer. No… not him. I’m talking about thinking way, way outside the box (And yes, I hate that phrase, too).

We all know that the main job of a Point Guard is to run the offense. To quarterback the team, so to speak. Above and beyond that, we also expect a PG to be a terrific ball handler, create their own offensive shots from time to time and definitely play serviceable defense. Essentially all the skills that ATS so fully captured in his post above. That is the perfect point guard.

Tony Parker is a wonderful point guard and in my opinion definitely one of the top 3 in the league. (For all of you with your jaws on the ground, please pick them up and shut your mouth. Yes, I just praised Tony… don’t get used to it). George Hill is still a work in progress, but he shows very definite promise. And as our 2nd PG, he’s a great back-up for TP.

However, I think the most necessary requirement for a PG of a high caliber team is a strong Basketball IQ and the ability to run the system of our team.

So that all leads up to the person I think should be our 3rd point guard during the regular season. Please understand that during the playoffs I fully expect the position will be expertly executed by the God of all Gods. (No need to mention his gloriousnesses name).

We should look into acquiring a seasoned point guard. A player with brains to spare and terrific ball handling skills. And I propose we look in our own back yard. Enough with the delaying tactics… here’s my wild idea along with musical accompaniment by the Queen of Soul.

Becky Hammon. Yes, that Becky Hammon.

Come on Pop, do it for LD

Let me give you a few notable facts regarding this exceptional athlete and why we would be lucky to have her on our team.

She’s got wicked awesome b-ball skills
3 Point Shooting Champion
Comfortable Competing with Basketball Superstars
Kicked the Ass of an 8 foot long, 270 pound Bull Shark. No Lie.
Guiness World Record Holder for Most Free Throws made in 1 minute by a Woman
4 Time WNBA All-Star
EFF +19.79, Stats

O.K., now before anyone gets their panties in a wad, no I’m not serious. Her free throw percentage of 89% (Career) automatically disqualifies her from ever making a Spurs team.

However, all of you Husbands, Dads, Sons & Big Brothers should take your favorite Women to see a wonderful team run by a truly excellent point guard. Don’t forget… it’s 78 days until you see the other Silver & Black players. So go get your B-Ball fix and catch a Silver Stars game.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney
I don't like chatty. I don't do chatty. I like quiet. Quiet and mean. Those are my people. - Nurse Jackie

by bellasa on Aug 11, 2009 12:07 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs

Definitely waaaay outside the box, but it was fun to think about for a second. Maybe we should start reporting on the Silver Starts [intentional] to fill in the gaps between now and training camp.

Re-sign Bruce Bowen!

by Tim C. on Aug 11, 2009 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs