Poll: Can Tony be the franchise player during the post-Duncan era?
by bj1der on Aug 30, 2009 12:26 AM CDT
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PrintI've said it before that when The Big Fundamental leaves, the team will belong to one William Anthony Parker. But we all know that Tim Duncan has been the face of the franchise for the past 12 years. While reading this article the question came up and I found myself pondering it for some time. In the article it says "It’s hard to tell how much of his success stems from having Duncan (and Manu Ginobili) on his team." and even though I think Tony is a great player who is well deserving of all his success, I still think it's a fair statement to make. I think that, with help, Tony Parker is perfectly capable of continuing the success that Spurs fans have come to expect. He showed me that he is capable of leading a good team with his play this last season. However, it's always good to get a second opinion. So I'm asking the faithful PTR members.
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IMO Tony WILL be the Franchise player in a couple of years, if for no other reason than by default . ( We arent luring any of the big names in 2010 or, ever for that matter. Too small a market for those guys)
Tony played many regular season games and the entire post season without Manu and was still dominant….
While I think Tony is close to his peak, I think hell improve his stroke from downtown. He should have a very good season, but I dont think hell have to put up the numbers from last season with the teams vastly improved offense.
He can do it. He will do it. He would need help from the FO and the coaching staff. Just by looking at the successes of the Spurs organization, I would be willing to bet those who voted for “Lottery here we come” that post-Duncan, the Spurs will still be—at the very least—fighting for a playoff spot.
I think the Spurs will have much different style of play on that sad day when Timmeh retires – a style predicated on speed and shooting ability, to capitalize on Tony’s skill set. The Spurs already seem to be thinking about that transition… so yes, I think Tony can be the franchise player, no problem.
ACLs are like crutches. They’re only for the weaklings who can’t get along without them. -jollyrogerwilco
Hm, Tony on his own, without a presence down low to clear the paint?
We’ll see. I don’t want to think about it till Timmy retires.
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I don’t even want to think about it then.
Tiago Splitter, anyone?
From under the radar to hanging in the rafters - Big50
5 in 10
That was part of my considerations above. Tiago is really quick for a big guy, and so is Ian(if he’s still around by then). De Colo seems like a perfect complement to Tony at the 2 as well.
ACLs are like crutches. They’re only for the weaklings who can’t get along without them. -jollyrogerwilco
I’m gettin’ a Tiago Splitter headache.
(I know, I should just wait.)
Haters beware: Kobe's drive for 5 starts now!-SLAM Magazine
by olf on Aug 30, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think that would be “the right help”
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
We’re all worrying about when Duncan leaves, but what about when Pop leaves? He’s said he will leave when Duncan stops playing. You could say every team has an outstanding player, and several some championship worthy ones. But coaches? To find an excellent one is even rarer than getting a first round pick.
My tapeworm tells me what to do.
Oh man, I’d forgotten about this. Dang, that’s going to be a sad day.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
I heard somewhere that Duncan was thinking about taking the job and so was Jacque Vaughn but I’m not sure how true this is
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
Either way I doubt they would be as good as Pop is
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
Don’t bet against Tim. I’m thinking he could do it.
From under the radar to hanging in the rafters - Big50
5 in 10
I think he would be best able to out of the options we have (since he is the closest thing to Pop) but Pop is one of the greatest coaches ever. That’s a tough act to follow.
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
Parker is more than capable of being the franchise player
In fact, he’s the best player on the team right now. Duncan has lost a lot of his abilities from years past and has some bad knees, Manu has some injury problems, but even when healthy he doesn’t put up consistent point totals like Parker. When Duncan was losing steam last year and Manu was out, Parker was having 30 point games. With young talent getting more experienced and progressing more and more, Parker will have the supporting cast he needs to keep the Spurs a relevant playoff team in the West. The big question is if he’ll have the coach.
"You'll take my life but I'll take yours too. You'll fire you musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack. You'd better stand there's no turning back"- "The Trooper" by Iron Maiden
I’d like to see someone do a numbers analysis on Tony’s consistency in points and assists vs. Manu’s.
Wouldn’t that be interesting?
From under the radar to hanging in the rafters - Big50
5 in 10
that it would my friend
that it would
"You'll take my life but I'll take yours too. You'll fire you musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack. You'd better stand there's no turning back"- "The Trooper" by Iron Maiden
BlaseE, I know you’re busy right now, but I don’t mind waiting for something like this if you can do it when things slow down for you.
From under the radar to hanging in the rafters - Big50
5 in 10
what do you mean by consistency? how close their median game is to their average? how often they score less than 10 points? do you mean for the last 2-3 seasons or their whole careers?
Mainly, I was wondering how close to ‘the truth’ KA1Z3R’s above assertion is:
even when healthy he [Manu] doesn’t put up consistent point totals like Parker.
So I think I’d like to see how often you see games where their point total is, say, a standard deviation away from their average. But if that doesn’t yield any interesting or compelling results, then we could look at an arbitrary method — like seeing how often their score is 10 points lower than their average.
From under the radar to hanging in the rafters - Big50
5 in 10
Well, here is a lazy first look…..
Last 2 seasons:
Manu
07-08: 74 games, 21 games over 25 points (28.4 ), 30 games with 14 or less (40.5)
08-09: 44 games, 6 (13.6%), 23 (52.3%)
Parker
07-08: 69 games, 19 (27.5%), 20 (29.0%)
08-09: 72 games, 23 (31.9%), 13 (18.1%)
Last season is really misleading though because Manu was playing in recovery minutes for so much of it. Parker also has to pick up slack in games without Manu. I would say Parker is more consistent though. Manu and Parker’s %‘s should be good signs for next season. Parker is a more consistent scorer now, and a healthy Manu won’t be nearly as inconsistent next year. His numbers last season seem fairly extreme.
Where are the geometric means and the standard deviations? How am I supposed to know what’s truly going on if there aren’t 20 different analytic variables? Thanks for giving us the quick look, Blase, since I’m too lazy to spend the time to look it up for myself.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
Playing the extreme optimist:
Going into training camp in 2012:
PG: Tony Parker (30 years old, ~$15), George Hill (26, $2.3)
Wings: Manu (35, ~$7), RJ (32, ~$8), and Nando de Colo (25, ~$1)
Frontcourt: Blair (23, $1), Mahinmi (25, ~$3), and Splitter (27, ~$3)
That is 8 roster spots with an average age of under 28 making about $40.3 million.
Mason (32) and Bonner (32) are both good role players. I think Mason is more likely to stay after next season and Bonner is pretty much for sure cut lose for Tiago next year unless Ian and Haislip both fail miserably. If Ian and Haislip fail that bad, we might be replacing them at the trade deadline too.
Haislip (32), Hariston (25), and Marcus Williams (26) are all on the roster now and could earn contracts this year. Especially Haislip and Hairston.
Gist and McClinton have potential and aren’t on the roster this year. Plus that is 3 more years of draft picks (which are cheap, young roster spots).
My point is, that with Duncan gone, and Manu likely at the end of a 3 year contract, the Spurs will have a lot of financial flexibility to compliment Tony and some of the really great pieces we’ve been acquiring in our youth movement.
Do we have a choice?
Hey I’m new to SB Nation and Pounding the Rock. I’ve been reading some posts for a week or two but I decided to join today. This post immediately drew my attention.
Honestly I feel that Tony Parker is capable of taking over. When you look at the rest of the team though, do we have a choice? Tim Duncan and Popovich will retire at the same time I imagine; I don’t know when Manu will. Parker is a young but also a wise player. This past season, with Duncan and Manu crippled, he carried most of the weight and responsibility on his shoulders. Our game will be different because of Timmy’s departure but with the right supporting class, the Spurs can still be a major competitor. The question is can we find that right complement of players?
Anyway, that’s two years away. Let’s focus on winning the championship, maybe two. Then we’ll see where we are after that.
Amen to that, Augustus. Welcome.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
People really think the Spurs are a lottery team without TD?
No faith in Tony, Manu, Rj, George, Splitter, Mason, Ian, Blair, Hairston? Not to mention the FO seems to always have an answer to every problem.
"I've got Tim (Duncan) and you don't. That's the difference." -Gregg Popovich
Thanks for the love guys; I’m glad to join this amazing crew of devoted Spurs fan. I’m up here in Spokane, WA (basically a pro basketball dead zone). I was born in San Antonio though so that’s where my loyalty lies = ).
I agree with bj1der. I think the Spurs can compete without Duncan but it will be more difficult. Speaking of Splitter, I would like to see him on our team SOON. I know that he recently resigned with his team but could he possibly join the Spurs next season or the season after? Any ideas anyone?
Generally speaking, I’d define a franchise player as an MVP candidate or perhaps a top 10 player. Someone who is either of that ability now or is pretty much a lock (Durant) to be that player in the future.
Unfortunately, I don’t think Tony Parker is of that level. I think he’s a top 5 point guard and a perennial All-Star caliber player, but not a guy who makes first or second All-NBA teams with regularity.
Parker may not be a, or the, franchise player for the Spurs in the post-Duncan era … but he can definitely be one of the cornerstones to those squads.
Parker already won a finals MVP so he can be considered an MVP candidate albeit not one likely to win the award. According to your argument:
…but not a guy who makes first or second All-NBA teams with regularity
If a player needs to consistently be in the All-NBA teams (15 slots in the All-NBA team) to be considered a franchise player then there would be 15 teams in the league without “franchise” players. That is without counting some teams that might have two of their players in the All-NBA team. Im certain that the Spurs can build a team around Tony and have the team compete for the playoffs year in and year out.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
If a player needs to consistently be in the All-NBA teams (15 slots in the All-NBA team) to be considered a franchise player then there would be 15 teams in the league without "franchise" players.
This is exactly what I believe.
My rough definition of a franchise caliber player is an All-NBA level talent. Someone who is of that ability year in and year out, either in the present tense (Dirk) or the near future (Durant).
To me a “franchise player” is a level of ability … and not just being the best player on one’s own squad. It’s just my rough definition of the phrase.
I’m certain that the Spurs can build a team around Tony and have the team compete for the playoffs year in and year out.
I agree — Tony Parker can definitely be the best player on a team that makes the playoffs year after year. He might even be able to be the best player on a contender if he were on a team like the Pistons with 4-5 All-Stars + deep bench on the roster.
I think we just define “franchise player” differently.
by NBR on Sep 7, 2009 3:56 AM CDT up reply actions
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