Hanging on for Hope
by Manuwar on Jul 3, 2009 2:07 AM CDT
130 comments
Our unofficial motto for Spurs teams the past couple of years has been "Three studs and a bunch of suck", harsh but mostly accurate. Our acquisition of Richard Jefferson (stud) accompanied by FSM dropping Chairman of the Boards Dujuan Blair in our laps set us in fine position to make a title run this up coming season. To be completely honest I didn't think it very important what big we were going to sign, just let him be serviceable. As far as I was concerned if we could win it with 3 studs and a bunch of suck in years past then 4 legit studs plus Mason, Hill and Blair should be enough. Then the dreadful news came. Artest to the Lakers is momentous. I don't think I'm in the minority to say Artest is an upgrade over Ariza but let's break it down anyhow.
Ariza's best qualities are a result of his physical make up. He is long, quick enough to bother small guards, and very explosive vertically. You might point out that Ariza also has great upside but I see this as a moot point as far as the Lakers are concerned. Kobe is turning 31 and he is their window in a similar way Duncan/Manu are our window. Ariza's length and foot speed allow him to cheat passing lanes with out completely compromising defensive position; he had two game clinching steals in the playoffs this past year doing just that. Offensively he's limited. He is a great finisher around the basket but he lacks the ability to create for himself, and his shot is very sporadic. His offense comes off of fast breaks (he can run like a gazelle) or being set up by someone else. Last season he saw many open looks due to clubs double teaming Kobe and Gasol. His game is more aesthetic than Shawn Marions but they are basically the same thing: long, quick, gambling defenders and besides the offense generated by steals they are completely dependent on having a star set them up for buckets.
Just as Ariza's best qualities are a due to his physicality, Artest's are much do to his psychology; at least on defense. It takes someone with great mental toughness to score against dudes like Artest. Like our beloved Bruce Bowen, Artest doesn't have any reservations about using every part of his body to slow down his opponent (elbows, knees, feet, shoulders etc). When he's your opponent you might call him dirty but let that man on your side and quickly you will be signing him praises using words like clever, gritty, hustling, physical, tough, and competitive to describe their game. It is players like this that give a team a mental edge over their opponents. It's a familiar edge to Spurs fans, I think it was in a Denver paper that wrote "San Antonio grinds you into mental submission..." after the 2007 series with the Nuggets. Artest now gives the Lakers this edge over other teams. If there is a down side to Artests' game it is his wild offense. If he's forced to create he might try a one-footed-under-handed-leaner for three. But the Lakers have offense to spare if they resign Odom and when comparing Artests' offense to Ariza's you'd be hard pressed to make a better case for Ariza anyway.
Artest to the Lakers addresses the two (defense and toughness) question marks they might have had coming into next season. Can they be beaten? Well if they do resign Odom then it's going to be tough but I'm hanging on for hope.
3 recs |
130 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Im not worried about the trade. To me, at best, the lakers will be the same team that last year. Artest is a better one on one defender than ariza, but not as versatile. The lakers also lost a stealing machine in Ariza, who had a knack for anticipating the ball and then going at full speed for the dunk. The lakers lost one dimension of their game by letting ariza go. So, defensively is pretty even to me.
Now…offensively…… Artest is way better player than ariza on that end. But he has a serious problem of shot selection. Besides, the lakers didnt need more offense. They are a tremendous team on that end. What do the lakers gain on offense by having artest? Another guy with serious shot selection problems (say what you want, but Kobe still doesnt fully get it) and a guy who is a ball stopper. Ariza was more of a finisher (be it a dunk or a three pointer) while Artest fancies himself as a creator off the dribble.
So, all in all, the lakers dont have the potential to be much better, but there’s the downside of offensive trouble with Artest on the fold.
Think about this….. Gasol (shooting like 65% for streches) had serious trouble to get more than 10 shots per game. Add Ron to that mix. Man, Im almost starting to feel bad for the spaniard!
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
by Chilai on Jul 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ariza stealing was good, but a bit overrated IMHO.
if they resign odom though. . . it’s gonna be ugly in the west.
13 points in 39 seconds. Enough said.
by Duhoh on Jul 3, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we get a decent big man to fill out our rotation, Spurs-Lakers next year is going to be EPIC.
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 3, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
now you’re talking!
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 3, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES I like that way of thinking. Championships are much more fun when two excellent teams go at each other on an epic 6-7 game series. Thats the reason Ill remember 05 more than 07 forever, those Pistons where a pretty good team.
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
by Chilai on Jul 3, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true that
07 was janitorial duty.
lebroom anyone?
13 points in 39 seconds. Enough said.
by Duhoh on Jul 3, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GOL
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 3, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
’05 was my favorite Championship, because the 2 best teams were in the Finals. Not the WCF, or some shitty 2nd round series, but The Finals.
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 3, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rkiddo, I love this point, it’s anti-climactic when the best series (like SA vs PHO in ‘07) happens in the 2nd round, and THE FINALS are just a couple of teams that still haven’t been eliminated yet.
This is the reason it would be so epic if the NBA started seeding the playoffs by records, instead of the current system.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 3, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would, but the reason why they do it the way they do it now is the same thing that makes the whole world go round. They feel that they wouldn’t get ratings if say, the finals were of two teams in the southwest. So they make this whole East vs. West thing and try to hype it up with the all star game and such. Bummer.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 3, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always wondered,
is it also the same thing that makes the cookie crumble?
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 3, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 3, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SA/Dallas were the two best in ’06. And that was a fantastic series.
by 4Him on Jul 4, 2009 1:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
noooooooooo!!!
manu fouled dirk!
whyyyyyyyyyyyy?
nooooooooooo!!
sorry, that always happens to me when someone mentions “’06”
by FreshmakerDTM on Jul 4, 2009 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we’re punishing ourselves with bad memories, then I might as well mention .04 as well as Scola — there! are they all out of the way now? Can we move on?
; )
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 2:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait… getting swept by LA in 01, and then losing again in 02.
ok, that’ll do for now…moving on! haha
by FreshmakerDTM on Jul 4, 2009 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys forgot Hakeem.
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 4, 2009 2:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn’t want to go into the 90s…ha
by FreshmakerDTM on Jul 4, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
~Skeleton in the closet
Sorry to say, but that’s not a bad memory for me. I was in junior high and living in Houston when Hakeem was drafted. I remember reading the sports page as the season before the draft was ending, and people were talking about whether they were throwing games for the draft pick. So, in the interest of full disclosure, 92-93 and 93-94 were actually good years for me.
Yes, it’s true. I’m not a lifetime Spur fan.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re a fan of greatness? I understand. I’ll be honest – when I was young, I followed the Bulls quite a bit. Probably the result of living away from SA, and only seeing them play a couple times per year on TV. But I do remember the dismay at watching Dream totally dismantle my team.
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 4, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like TimmyD, Hakeem is not likely to get his due historically. The fact that your average top whatever list doesn’t put him right next to Wilt, Bill and Kareem is just plain silly.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that for those two seasons, the Dream was in the Russell, Wilt, Kareem class. However, my impression is that he did not have as long a period of greatness as those two guys. For that reason, I think most people consider those big guys as the cream of the crop and Olajuwon is a step below.
I'm comfortable winning -- Emmanuel Ginobili
by pollackj on Jul 5, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hakeem better than shaq
Hakeem olajuwon won the 94 championship without a real nba super star beside him. Unlike shaq who needs kobe,wade. Hell he even had penny hardway for his first trip to the finals.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 5, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manu-20, I’m with you on this one. It’s an excellent point. Look at any championship team over the past 30 years and you’ll be hard pressed to find a star who won with less than what Hakeem did in ’93.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 5, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or 94. Facts Schmacts.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 5, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d have said ’94 as well, but some would disagree and say Drexler qualifies as a star.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 5, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t they win titles in 94 and 95?
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 5, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are correct, sir.
Bring back Bruce!
Pounding the Rock - where young and ath-uh-letic happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 5, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Drexler most assuredly counts as a star. He’s was unbelievable. If it hadn’t been for him being in a small market like Portland and for Jordan, he’d be considered a top 20 player of all time.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 5, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I said “what Hakeem did in ’93” I meant ‘93-’94. And when you said “or 94” I was thinking you meant ‘94-’95. And the 2nd title was with The Glide.
And I’m completely with you about top 20 for Clyde. The only bad thing you can say about him is that he wasn’t Jordan.
There was a possession at the end Game 2 of the ‘94-’95 Finals, where Houston was ahead by 2, less then 20 seconds to go, and Penny had brought the ball up the court, and was just about to run a play, and Drexler just reached out (so quickly) and took the ball from him. I would have said he stole the ball, but it was honestly like watching an teenage boy taking the ball from his 4th grader little brother. He just took the ball away from Hardaway and for a moment, everybody on the court just stood there because it was so weird, and Penny looked to be waiting to see if he’d get bailed out by the refs. But there was no whistle, because it was so clean. And Drexler goes off to the races — and the game was over.
Ah, memories.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 5, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
David Robinson was on that team. Yes I know he was on his last legs (back) but it’s hard to make the case that he won with nothing when a Top 50 player was on the squad.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 6, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, and that was also Manu’s first season(Parker was with the team already)
Bring back Bruce!
Pounding the Rock - where young and ath-uh-letic happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 6, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DRob wasn’t a top-50 player that year. When you take the top nine players on those two rosters (in terms of minutes played), and then do the same with the playoff rosters, the performance of TD’s supporting cast actually dropped off quite a bit during the playoffs, while Olajuwon’s crew increased somewhat. So TD had to do more with less, and I think that is reflected in the fact that Tim’s overall performance in ‘03 was better than Olajuwon’s in ’94.
However, this discussion got started with Olajuwon’s place in history, and I agree that he was better than Shaq and should be listed among the top four centers of all time.
by 4Him on Jul 6, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn’t done any analysis of the two teams and appreciate yours. This got started more on the difference between merit vs reputation, and that’s why Drexler and Robinson were coming up, since they were the most well known names besides the superstars of the respective teams.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 6, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about the original: Spurs lose ECF to Washington Bullets, 4-3 (game 7 by two points). The NBA wasn’t ready for an ex-ABA team to be in the Finals.
by 4Him on Jul 4, 2009 3:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phantom foul on Paultz!
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. --Andy Dufresne
by tomasito on Jul 4, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well it was also a crappy overtime for us to. Had manu not fouled we would of had 3peat.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 5, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winning the finals that year was not a given. D Wade was a very bad man in
’06
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jul 6, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and the ref’s might have called even more sneeze fouls on us than they did on Dallas.
And it was difficult enough for me to deal with it as it was happening to the Mavs; I don’t want to imagine what it’d have been like to have to deal with that level of officiating malfeasance in the Finals against the Spurs
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 6, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think that DWade would have had any more success against Bruce in ’06 than LeBron had against Bruce in ’07?
Not even the refs could have helped the Heat beat the Spurs had they met in the ’06 Finals.
by 4Him on Jul 6, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not a fair assessment
LeBron’s Cavs in ‘07 were a one man show. It was LeBron and only LeBron. DWade’s Heat has some serious talent around him. Coach Pop has always said it. “The best team always wins a 7 game series”. That Mavs team that beat us, was the same Mavs team that lost to the Heat in 6…at home.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jul 6, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think when Pop says that, he has his “No Excuses” hat firmly on his greying head.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 6, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Heat had some serious talent? DWade and a past-his-prime Shaq and…who? They played in a very weak conference and got very favorable whistles in the Finals. (Btw, it’s best to say that the best team almost always wins a 7-game series. Don’t take everything that Pop says as Gospel – i.e. in referring to the end of the playoff game against the Lakers in ‘08 when Fisher sat on top of Barry and no foul was called, Pop said, "I wouldn’t have called that a foul.")
I’m not convinced that the Heat were better than the Mavs that year, but the Mavs were in the Finals for the first time and didn’t handle the adversity well, so they lost. The Spurs and Mavs played an epic series (which really should have been the Finals) which could have gone either way and was decided by the thinnest of margins. But the Spurs would have closed the deal with the Heat, and I think quite handily (they had already swept the Heat in their season series by a 21-point margin). The Heat were very fortunate that they didn’t have to face the Spurs.
Imo, the Heat were the worst champion in almost 30 years (and that was a big reason as to why they disintegrated so quickly thereafter). If they were so great, then why were the Spurs the odds-on favorite going into the 2006-07 season?
by 4Him on Jul 6, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Don’t lecture me.
2. You can’t definitively say that the Spurs would have beaten the Heat. No matter how you want to slice it up. Take a look at the season stats. Both teams we’re evenly matched with proven vets. Not to mention that the Heat knocked off the Detroit Pistons in the ECF. The same Pistons team who had made it to the Finals the previous 2 years. And let’s not forget that we’re leaving out an entire PHX series in the WCF that could have potentially weaken us before the Finals.
‘05-’06 Spurs Stats
‘05-’06 Heat Stats
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jul 6, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really think you can compare stats on these two teams. I think overall the elite teams of the East were able to pad their stats on their much weaker conference foes.
As much as it pains me to say it, Dallas should have won those finals. They lost because the refs were incredibly generous to D-Wade. And more importantly, when it mattered most, the Mavs lacked a killer instinct and simply imploded.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney
I don't like chatty. I don't do chatty. I like quiet. Quiet and mean. Those are my people. - Nurse Jackie
by bellasa on Jul 6, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may very well be right Bella. All I’m saying is that a championship is not guaranteed just by getting past Dallas. Fatigue plays a big part in the playoffs. in ‘06 we went 6 games vs Sac. Then 7 games in an epic series vs Dallas. Say we win game 7 and now it’s on to Phx. Now we’re looking at 6 to 7 tough games to get to the Finals. This by no means is a walk in the park.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jul 6, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Lecture? I’m just giving my opinions. Opinion makes up most of what is shared on blogs.
2. You are actually the first person I’ve heard who thinks that the Heat could have beaten the Spurs if they had faced each other in the 2006 Finals.
by 4Him on Jul 6, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine he doesn’t like to speak in absolutes about something that didn’t happen: “We would’ve won!” “We were the better team!” It’s all fine as opinions, but the truth is that the Mavs beat the Spurs, and the Heat defeated them. That’s also debatable, but at least you have the transitive property to back you up.
Anyway, that’s what I think CMoney means. Personally, I agree with you – I don’t see the Spurs losing to the Heat that year. As rik explains below, matchups and context matter in basketball, so the transitive property can go Fourier itself.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 6, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
When Pop said “The best team always wins a 7-game series”, I doubt that the 2007 DAL-GSW was in his mind. Matchups are a big deal.
Bring back Bruce!
Pounding the Rock - where young and ath-uh-letic happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 6, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that series proved his point. It doesn’t mater what the ranking is… When 2 teams meet, the better one wins in 7 games. GS was the better team. Any Mavs fan will begrudgingly tell you that.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jul 6, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
13 points in 39 seconds. Enough said.
by Duhoh on Jul 14, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the key. If they don’t resign Odom, then the bench sucks and the Lakers have lost a lot of their lineup flexibility.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
by CapHill on Jul 3, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think you can call it overrated. Ariza rated #3 in steals this past season if you look at steals per 48 mins, behind Knight and Chris Paul at 3.29.
That’s 3 less possessions for the opponent and 3 more for you. That’s a possible 12 point difference, or more, quite possibly. That’s huge. Not only that, but he’s a pretty good on ball defender, just look at what he was doing to Turkoglu.
I know those are best case scenario numbers, but you cannot call that overrated.
by xman130 on Jul 3, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your numbers are strong — I am compelled to agree.
But you gotta admit that the refs were letting him get away with manslaughter in his defense of Turk
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 3, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The refs were pretty inconsistent, I will give you that. It still doesn’t take away from Ariza’s ability on the defensive end. Also, maybe it just seemed like it to me, but every time he put up a three pointer, it was going in. I don’t know what his 3-point % in the play-offs was, but I’m guessing it must have been higher than the regular season.
You don’t have to to dunk the ball to be a finisher, but Ariza seems to be able to do both.
by xman130 on Jul 4, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ariza shot 47% from 3-point range in the finals. But that was because he was left W-I-D-E open while they doubled Kobe or Gasol or whomever. Regular season he’s somewhere around 30% give or take a few points.
Some reports say his agent was looking for him to get paid like a 47% 3-point shooter – well over the MLE. Now he’s a great guy and has improved a lot since getting rescued from the end of the Orlando bench. But I don’t see how he maintains that kind of production on a Rocket team without Yao, T-Mac & now Artest to draw the attention of the defense.
by lazNirv on Jul 4, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JRW, what about Turk constantly pushing Ariza away with his right hand, I felt that Turk would always push Ariza’s hands down and push his whole body away while he dribbled the ball with his left hand. Defenders can’t even touch perimeter players with the new hand check rules, I feel that the converse is not the same, and felt aggravated about that while watching the series.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 4, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now we’re getting into a chicken/egg question. Regardless which player did what, some consistent officiating would resolve the issue. Unfortunately, the NBA does not have any of the latter, so you have a bunch of the former going on.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
compare that to his turnovers
he had plenty. he cannot put the ball on the floor. I cringed whenever he did so.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 4, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s for sure, he definitely doesn’t create much on the offensive side.
by xman130 on Jul 4, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m going with the classics: more talent is better than less talent. You can never have too many guns – just ask Rambo.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 3, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Artest is versatile
Ariza can guard SFs, SGs, and PGs. Artest can guard PFs, SFs, and SGs. He also is a better 3 point shooter (doesn’t need to be left wide open to hit them), and he can actually drive to the hoop if he puts the ball on the floor, unlike Ariza. Trevor had some nice moments, but more often than not, if he puts the ball on the floor, he’s going to turn it over. (W/o a doubt, ball handling is Trevor’s worst skill.)
Yes, the Lakers lost a good defender to put on PGs, but I believe Shannon Brown is Plan B in that regards. While Farmar was used to battle quick guards, and Brown to battle big guards, I believe Shannon Brown is the Lakers future starting PG. He has tremendous speed, great ups, a decent outside shot (as good as Ariza’s, if you ask me), and can play PG, SG, and SF against smaller forwards. Also, the kid is big, and we know how much Phil loves big guards (look at Sasha Vujacic; dunno how he remains a Laker).
Finally, on the thought that Artest is going to kill our offense. Yes, he will have moments when Lakers fans are screaming at him to pass the ball, quit dribbling, etc. But so does Kobe. And as I already said, I cringed anytime I saw Trevor put the ball on the floor. This will be no different, except the chances of Artest succeeding on these forays will be far greater than Ariza’s were. Also, the triangle is an offense that does not have plays specifically called for one player. The offense is setup, and the team looks for the highest scoring chance. With a 3rd scorer, (and a 2nd perimeter scorer), this opens up the lane for the likes of Gasol and Bynum. The Lakers now have outside scorers at all positions to surround Gasol/Bynum, and even when Odom is in, they can really space the floor.
If you really look at the Lakers roster, it is FULL of multi-position players. Kobe, Pau, Odom, Artest, Walton, Vujacic, Brown, Yue.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 4, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sun Yue is a multi-position player? Very nice.
by silverandblack_davis on Jul 4, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's 6'7"
and is supposed to be a PG. So I’m assuming then he’s going to be able to guard PG, SG, and SF somewhat.
But he’s still very raw, and it’ll take a couple more seasons before he’s even ready for primetime minutes. Somehow, I doubt it’ll ever happen, or atleast, not in LA.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AT least he seems to be a better player than Yi Jianlian.
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
by Chilai on Jul 6, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anyone would argue that Artest is not versatile or better talent than Ariza, the issue comes on those games that he just loses it, or those offensive games that he stinks up the place. The only problem I see for the Lakers is that you’re taking shot attempts away from Gasol, someone who I would venture to guess needs more, not less shots. I honestly think he’s the most effective Laker on the offensive side, more so than Kobe, at least from a FG % stand point. I remember watching a bunch of their games and Gasol more often than not was automatic from 15ft and in.
As a Spurs fan, I hope the Artest signing blows up on their face, but that’s not likely to happen. Too many good coaches/players to keep him in check.
by xman130 on Jul 4, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manuwar, nice post. Gets a rec from me.
First, I can’t tell you how excited I am to get away from “TS&ABOS” b-ball.
Second, (and it never gets old) hope is a good thing.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 3, 2009 6:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
just got back in town from a vacation up the coast of california-BEAUTIFUL! Anyway perfect clip. My top 3 movie of all time.
Just call me The Profit
by Manuwar on Jul 5, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what are the other 2?
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 5, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Will Hunting (I’m a huge Elliott Smith fan), and Pulp Fiction. Gimme yours
Just call me The Profit
by Manuwar on Jul 5, 2009 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, don’t. We need an official PtR top 3 movies of all-time post. It would be great for August.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 5, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aw, Manuwar, I was just prepping my post when THE BOSS nixed my reply.
He’s right, though. Wait until August, and all will be revealed.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 5, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JRW, I’m putting you on remembering to do this.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 5, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just saved a reminder for myself for 4 weeks from now — and then your post appeared.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 5, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah I can’t wait!
Just call me The Profit
by Manuwar on Jul 5, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can. But that’s only b/c narrowing my list down to the Top 3 is tearing me apart. I love them all so much, why can’t they all belong?
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 5, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh that’s true but I came up with my list a while ago when 2 buddys and I hashed it out over some beers. Pacifico if you were wondering. Hmm whats your top 3 beers?
Just call me The Profit
by Manuwar on Jul 5, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mmm I like Pacifico. But my top beer is the one that’s in the fridge.
by lazNirv on Jul 5, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That reminds me of a Mike Tyson quote. When asked what his most effective punch was he replied “the one that lands”
Just call me The Profit
by Manuwar on Jul 5, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s funny.
Wow it’s late but I’m kind of waiting for some more news of an impending signing or trade or whatever. This is the first year I’ve paid so much attention to free agency but it seems like a lot of epic shifts have already taken place.
by lazNirv on Jul 6, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is one of the more exciting off seasons so far. At least from Spurs fans perspective
Just call me The Profit
by Manuwar on Jul 6, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like a real arms race at the top. Spurs, Magic, Cavs, Lakers, Celtics.
ESPN is even reporting that Portland is interested in David Lee from the Knicks but he’s restricted so the Knicks can match. Hard to tell what Port thinks they need by targeting Lee after the Hedo thing.
by lazNirv on Jul 6, 2009 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest, I think Artest is very overrated at this point in his career, especially defensively. He’s no longer the shutdown defender he was several years ago, and offensively, he can really throw a wrench in the gears when he decides to pound the ball the entire shotclock and then jack up a contested 20 footer. He won’t get to do that with Kobe around, but I don’t think that he is particularly adept at getting points in the flow of the offense, i.e. without being the focal point. If the Lakers lose Odom and Ariza, essentially in exchange for Artest, they get worse. Kobe and Pau are great offensive players, and Bynum can be a very good one; the Lakers need guys to chip in around those guys. It remains to be seen if Artest can be productive in a lesser capacity (Gary Payton never really figured it out).
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. --Andy Dufresne
by tomasito on Jul 3, 2009 10:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hoopsworld reports that the Lakers wanted to keep Ariza as plan A and were prepared to offer a little over the MLE (something like $6 mil to start; $36 mil total). But:
the source says that Ariza’s agent, David Lee, took a confrontational approach with Kupchak.
Lee wanted a deal in the $50 million range and took offense to the team’s stance that Trevor should test the market first for that level of compensation.
At that point the Lakers were afraid he’d leave and go to a rival and leave them without their starting SF so they pursued Artest. Sounds like they wanted to keep Ariza but not overpay him. Also, once the Lakers reached a deal with Artest, Ariza actually signed with Houston for less than the Lakers originally offered.
It also says that they plan to resign Odom for more than the MLE which is all the Spurs could pay him I believe. But we’ll see.
by olf on Jul 3, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great info, olf. That’s really an interesting story. I wonder if Ariza wanted to play LA that way, or if his agent was just gunning for extra dough.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ariza and Bynum have the same agent
the extension talks with Bynum went pretty sour last season, and barely got done before the deadline. In the end, the Lakers overpaid for Bynum because of David Lee’s threats. This time around, the Lakers took the pre-emptive strike against Lee when he tried to be aggressive again, and found a better replacement. In several years, Artest will not be what Ariza will be, but by then, who knows what the Lakers plan will be for their roster.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 4, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crazy agents!
The whole Ariza/Artest swap thing makes a ton more sense now, when viewed through the lens of the previous negotiations.
Thanks for the backstory, tandur. You know, except for not being a Spurs fan, you’re not half bad.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest, I think the Spurs should look in to getting Lamar themselves because I think he’d fit in with the spurs nicely, he could provide a nice threat inside and out like Horry. I also think he’d be a bit more receptive to coming to the Spurs because he’d get a lot more respect and wouldn’t asked to shoulder as much as a burden as he has in L.A. if not I’ve heard other option through trade.
by Texxus Boy on Jul 3, 2009 11:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Texx, I must agree that Odom intrigues me, but I’m just not sure about him. He doesn’t scare me like Sheed does, but still. Not sure his fire is really lit.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should lure him in with gummy bears and maybe some alfajores.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 4, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should lure him in with gummy bears and maybe some alfajores.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 4, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should lure him in with gummy bears and maybe some afajores.
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. --Andy Dufresne
by tomasito on Jul 4, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 4, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
…Sorry, don’t get it. You changed “alfajores” for “afajores”?
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 4, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, wait. My comment was posted twice. Connection sucks.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 4, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drat, messed up the joke. I copied and pasted it, but I must have hit the backspace key by mistake. D’oh!
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. --Andy Dufresne
by tomasito on Jul 5, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure if it is just photoshop but it looks like Lamar is having fun in LA. (Sorry it’s not centered.)
by lazNirv on Jul 4, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops.
I thought I posted a picture with Lamar out on the town with some actor type persons of the female persuasion. Perhaps it got pulled down for violating community standards. Or perhaps I just f’d it up.
Either way I apologize.
by lazNirv on Jul 4, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t worry, Iaz, although if it showed some hot women in skimpy clothes it might’ve been deleted. It’s against the rules – you missed some crazy days. :)
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 4, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks LD. While I wouldn’t exactly use the word ‘skimpy’ there we definitely some Hollywood A-listers that I would described with the words you used above. Like I said it could have been photoshop’d but I do know Lamar likes him some partying.
I think I remember he was hurrying home from a road playoff game this year to attend an MTV Music Awards after-party.
I’m stuck at home sick today on the frickin’ 4th of July, feeling sorry for myself, bored & just playing with my mouse & keyboard.
by lazNirv on Jul 4, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go grab your camera and wait for the fireworks. I caught some early fireworks last night. :)
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 4, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a terrific photo, rik.
by silverandblack_davis on Jul 4, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rik, I just received (yesterday) a Canon 5D Mark II.
Should have a pic or two to post soon.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bow to your superior funding. I’m actually leaving for the same spot I took the photo above right now, so I can get pics of real fireworks. : )
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 4, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Semi-funded
I picked up a gig for next week that requires a better camera, and what I make will almost cover the new body. So that made it a no brainer. Hopefully I’ll get enough follow-up biz to pay the rest off soon.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I hit the big time, I’ll need a photog to travel to summer league.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 4, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll be happy to travel along! Wait, how serious are you?
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m working on it…
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 5, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that sucked. Too far away.
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 4, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, if that was 50% of the view, it would have been something special.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 5, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what’s worse is I cropped out a LOT.
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 5, 2009 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks guy. That picture cheered me up.
The wife took the kids to the BBQ party & to see fireworks ‘cause I was sick in bed. So while I heard a bunch going off I didn’t really see any fireworks for the first time in I can remember.
So the pic made me feel better. Or maybe the concoction from the liquor cabinet is killing some of my germs. :-)
by lazNirv on Jul 5, 2009 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a fun camera to work with. We’re shooting our next feature film with the Canon 5D.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jul 6, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously? With all of the equipment you guys have you chose the 5D?
I’m curious as to why. Enlighten me?
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 6, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it’s never been done before. Independent films are always looking for a niche or a marketing tool to promote their film. We’re trying to be the first to film a feature length film with a DSLR camera.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jul 6, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got it. Makes sense.
So, was this a project you guys have had in the works for a while? Was it written in house? Do we need to take this discussion off-line?
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 6, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We teamed up with the writer. He is still in the process of completing the script but so far so good. Tentative shooting dates start in September. The screenplay is called Searching for Sonny. Here is the teaser shot with the 5D.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jul 6, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quite cool. I’m guessing someone from your house is directing.
How long did it take to shoot the trailer? As to the manual controls, I’m not too optimistic about Maeda making that happen for us. Do you know anyone who’s working on hacking some of that stuff out for themselves?
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 6, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know somebody has done documentaries already. But that was a while ago. So nobody has done a feature film yet? You sure? :P
by LionZion on Jul 6, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you take that yourself?
"What excites me the most is when a coach calls a timeout and chews out his forward because I just dunked on his head."
--Karl Malone
by spurscitizen on Jul 7, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did indeed. : )
Bring back Bruce!
Pounding the Rock - where young and ath-uh-letic happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 7, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spurs can only offer the MLE
Odom has also stated he wants a beach, and is good friends with Kobe and Artest. If your thinking Odom is Horry, think again.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 4, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t there there’s enough candy in Texas…
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
odom, like artest, has a bunch of projects on the side that him being in LA really helps. he’s not going anywhere.
by FreshmakerDTM on Jul 4, 2009 12:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t necessarily want to sign him, I just don’t want L.A. to have him anymore.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clips duty?
Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.
by Tim C. on Jul 4, 2009 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad idea at all, rik. Like the cut of your jib.
My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 4, 2009 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spur Wars: A New Hope
Brucey come back, any kind of fool could see. There was something in everything about you.
by TDzilla on Jul 4, 2009 10:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Pounding The Rock
Related FanShots on Pounding The Rock
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
