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The Bar Has Been Raised


By now, everyone knows that there's something of an arms race going among the teams considered legitimate NBA title contenders for next season.  There's also been moves by teams who desperately want to contend, in an effort to make themselves better.

Rumors have been flying, and various jokers like Amare Stoudemire and Ron Artest have been tweeting about wild trade scenarios that had yet to materialize.  Extra joker points go to RonRon for making people like me think he was joking about signing with the Lakers, then actually going out and doing it. 

And then there's the great Rasheed Wallace sweepstakes, with 'Sheed having his choice of title contenders to sign with.  No better way to counter crazy than with crazy and smart.  Graydon Gordian seems to think so, and at this point the Spurs are running out of good options, with 'Sheed probably being the easiest of those options, if he can be convinced to come to San Antonio.  The money is going to be the same no matter where he goes, so it just comes down to his own personal preference.

Let's review what's happened so far, and speculate on what's still to come for the Spurs.

Star-divide

Big Transactions For Contenders

So where do we begin?  Well the Spurs got it started, but let's go over the big moves that have happened so far in this arms race.

  • Richard Jefferson to the San Antonio Spurs
    -- Traded Bruce Bowen and Kurt Thomas to the Milwaukee Bucks, and Fabricio Oberto to the Detroit Pistons.


    The Spurs definitely got better with this move, but they tipped their hand by pulling the trigger on this so soon. Within 24 hours, news broke about the next big trade. Another consequence of this was a severe reduction in frontcourt depth and salary flexibility. The Spurs frontcourt now consists of Tim Duncan(GOAT), Matt Bonner(not an NBA starter), Ian Mahinmi(Mr. Glass Ankles), and DeJuan Blair(rookie with no ACLs). We'll address the frontcourt situation further below.
     
  • Shaquille O'Neal to the Cleveland Cavaliers
    -- Traded Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavlovic, a 2010 second-round pick, and $500,000 in cash to the Phoenix Suns


    This gives Cleveland a marginal improvement on the offensive end, but Shaq's defensive play is suspect at best at this point in his career. I don't think Cleveland is done yet, but this really isn't much of an upgrade, especially when you consider Shaq's salary.
     
  • Vince Carter to the Orlando Magic
    -- Traded Rafer Alston, Tony Battie, and Courtney Lee to the New Jersey Nets (The Nets also sent Ryan Anderson to the Magic)

    When news of this trade broke, it seemed as though Orlando was adding another much-needed scorer to their lineup, and that this would make them better. Then came news that Hedo Turkoglu was opting out of his contract. And as of this writing, Marcin Gortat appears to be headed to the Dallas Mavericks. For the record, I like Courtney Lee and think he will add to a nice young lineup in New Jersey. Unless they pull some better move out of their hindquarters soon, I don't believe this was a good move by Orlando. In fact, it seems as though they may have been weakened as a result of this trade.
     
  • Ron Artest to the Los Angeles Lakers
    -- Signed via Free Agency


    If we view this trade at face value, the Lakers have somehow managed to make themselves better. Particularly disconcerting is the potential for LA to dominate on the defensive end. Then again, there was a certain advantage to having Trevor Ariza - as the little o points out, the Lakers made a habit of having Ariza guard Tony Parker, which was disturbingly effective. Ron doesn't have the foot speed(especially at his age) or length to bother Tony. Also, he's a notorious chucker, which does not bode well for him in the triangle offense.  The jury's out on this one right now, but I still think this is an upgrade for LA. UPDATE: Manuwar wrote a nice opinion on the trade here that's worth the read.

Like it or not, it seems as if our trade for Jefferson made some other GM's very nervous.  Seems reminiscent of how the Gasol trade got all the other teams to make hasty decisions a couple of years ago.  So that's it for the contenders.  There's been other moves, but we'll leave that for the "experts" to discuss.

What This Means For The Spurs

The Good:  Small Forward

The Spurs made a good upgrade at the SF position, one that has been badly needed for several years now.  The only thing that would make it better is if Bowen came back and we could dump Michael Finley.  As things stand right now, the SF rotation seems to be Jefferson/Finley/Marcus Williams.  Depth is still a legitimate concern, but the starting SF position has been greatly upgraded.

The Bad:  Frontcourt Depth

After the big trade, the Spurs got lucky in the draft and filled one of the many holes in the frontcourt with DeJuan Blair.  But DeJuan isn't a starter, and this team needs a decent big who can stand in there with Tim Duncan and take some pressure off of him on the defensive end.

So how might we find this elusive 2nd big man?

  • Option 1:  Free Agency

Timmy is one of the best help defenders in the game, so a big who can play excellent man defense would be ideal.  We won't need a lot of offense from our 2nd big, but a guy with a decent shooting stroke, who could help spread the floor for Timmy on the offensive end and knock down the open shots, would complete the ideal package.  I wonder if there's a free agent available who fits that profile?

Rasheedwallace_medium
Hellooooooo, SiMA!

A lot has been written about Rasheed, and whether or not he would be a good fit for the Spurs - in fact, the subject has been beaten to death.  But if looking at in only basketball terms, it becomes pretty clear that this is the perfect player to complete our team.  Yes, there's a chance he has character/chemistry issues that sink the team's hopes - but those chances seem pretty remote from where I'm sitting.  I'd actually be more worried about RJ's assimilation to the Spurs, since Buford and Pop have designated him as our new defensive stopper.

Of course, there are other free agents out there, and this has been discussed at length hereAntonio McDyess, Zaza Pachulia, Rasho Nesterovic, Glen Davis and some others are still available - but we can expect that well to dry up fast right after Wallace makes his decision.

  • Option 2:  Trade For a Big Man

There are still some big men available on the trading block, but their numbers are dwindling as of late.  After the Clippers traded Zach Randolph to the Grizzlies, Marcus Camby doesn't look as available anymore.  The Hornets are still looking to cut salary, so Tyson Chandler is available.  They might also be willing to part with David West, and aren't exactly in a great position to negotiate.  Andris Biedrins was almost involved in a trade for Amare, so perhaps he's available as well.  There are plenty of possibilities here, but it's late and I don't want to thiink about salary matching at the moment.  Feel free to leave all the trade suggestions/scenarios you want in the comments - the more the merrier.

It's pretty clear that the Spurs front office has a plan, even though they're staying mum about it at the moment.  In the coming weeks, we may witness that plan unfolding brilliantly, or crashing and causing improvisation.  Either way, it will be fun to watch.

The Same:  Backcourt

Between Tony, Manu Ginobili, Roger Mason, and George Hill, we've got an awesome backcourt rotation.  This could be tweaked by an extra PG to offer added depth, and another wing(Hairston?  McClinton?) to fill out the roster and spell the old farts.  But the Spurs's backcourt is among the best in the league, if not at the top, so this area is most assuredly not a cause for concern.

The Bottom Line

The Spurs have already had a very productive offseason, and finally seem to be implementing their plan to transition the team into the twilight years of Timmy and Manu, if not beyond.  Getting your ass kicked in the first round, then watching the Euroleague star you traded away for peanuts frustrate the Lakers for 7 games will do that to you.  Stampler was right, this team needed a beatdown to get back in gear.  With that said, the front office has been doing a hell of a job so far this year, but their job isn't done by any stretch of the imagination. 

Let's hope the good times keep rolling, all the way to another river parade.

Poll
Which "contender" has done the best job improving their team?
Cleveland Cavaliers
85 votes
Los Angeles Lakers
401 votes
Orlando Magic
67 votes
San Antonio Spurs
920 votes

1473 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 114 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Artest wants to be in the spotlight, but I think there’s going to be some serious ego-clashing in LA. I don’t see this ending well for the Lakers.

by 4Him on Jul 3, 2009 3:00 AM CDT reply actions  

Although Artest seems to be an upgrade, it all depends on his willingness to subdue his chucker tendencies and play within the existing offensive system. If Ron-Ron is not able to do this, it could end badly for the Lakers. If he is, then as much as I hate to say this, the Lakers will have gotten better. Of course, this is all contigent on them resigning Odom.

My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri

by CapHill on Jul 3, 2009 3:03 AM CDT reply actions  

Wait a second

Since when did David West become available?

I agree its gotta be Sheed, he’s aware his MLE would go further w/o a state income tax right?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 8:11 AM CDT reply actions  

I haven’t heard any specific trade rumors surrounding West but it’s no secret that they are drastically trying to cut cost so it’s kind of assumed that everyone in NO is on the trading block.

Just call me The Profit

by Manuwar on Jul 3, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right, but would they trade within the division

is the question, although I never understood that logic, if youre rebuilding youre nowhere near contention, so how much does it hurt?

I wonder what it would take to get West, I would imagine it would be at least Tiago and a first rounder

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Spurs need to do some catching up

Just when we were about to be near even with the Lakers, they pull away yet again. We need Sheed or Dyess soon before they get signed. I think that in the end Sheed will come here. He and Duncan are friends and as bren pointed out, there’s no state income tax on that new paycheck of his. If we can get Sheed and maybe sign a couple savvy vets with the veteran minimum we’ll be good to go this year.

Randy Blythe, Singer of Lamb of God- "Words can be broken, so can bones....." Omerta by Lamb of God

by KA1Z3R on Jul 3, 2009 9:05 AM CDT reply actions  

I dont know that theyre friends

But i get the feeling they respect eachother a great deal, and Sheed likes Larry Brown, who likes Pop, so using the transitive property, one can assume Sheed would like Pop.

I just think we’re in a better position than Boston, Timmy is healthier than KG, RJ is younger than Pierce and Manu is better than Ray Allen any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

true, but I question

if Sheed might think that with Gino’s health in question and our early exit in the playoffs, might he see Boston as a better place for a championship? Personally I think that for the sake of being able to get a championship, he’d have a better chance in San Antonio.

The only other real threat in the West is LA, who got rid of one of the few guys (Ariza) who can guard Parker and might be without Odom. Meanwhile, Boston has to deal with Cleveland and Orlando. Cleveland being one of the few teams that can win with a one-man show, and Orlando being one of the top defensive teams and the best 3-point team.

Randy Blythe, Singer of Lamb of God- "Words can be broken, so can bones....." Omerta by Lamb of God

by KA1Z3R on Jul 3, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

KG is more important to the Cs

than manu is to us, and he had a major operation, so I think at the very worst, the situations are equal, plus in the West he wont have to deal with Howard or Shaq nearly as much, and with Yao out I cant even really think of a true center out west anymore, maybe Bynum.

Its gonna be interesting, supposedly he’s making trips to Orlando and San Antonio next week. I just think if we miss out on him the gulf in class b/t him and the next guy will be pretty glaring.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Someone’s more important to the Spurs than Manu? ; )

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

my allegiance is and always will be

to Tim Duncan.

Randy Blythe, Singer of Lamb of God- "Words can be broken, so can bones....." Omerta by Lamb of God

by KA1Z3R on Jul 4, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

… and long may he reign.

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good state-of-the-Spurs-nation post, rik. ’Sheed or bust!

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Jul 3, 2009 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

Extra options.

Is there any possibility the FO is willing or able to sign Wallace AND another big to compliment? If so, what player should that be and for how much could/should they sign him? I ask because if we add ’Sheed we would still need a real center IMO.

Going for the first even year championship!

by Sh!fty on Jul 3, 2009 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

I personally do not think we need a “real center.” The quality of center play has degraded so much that it is no longer essential. It is no longer important to plan your team around defending Shaq. It is nice to have another shot-blocker inside, and Wallace is pretty decent at blocking shots. I think Duncan and Sheed playing together would be one of the most formidable (if not the most formidable) front-lines in the league. It would definitely rival Bynum/Gasol and Shaq/Lebron (provided LJ plays PF as some say he might).

However, we will need another post player even if we sign Sheed. If they could somehow get Gooden for the Bi-annual exception then that would be gravy. More likely it would be Gist or someone else though.

"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili

by VWolf on Jul 3, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

The point of having a true center is for Timmy to play PF, at least on defense as well as having an (semi)intimidating presence. Right now, the roster is full of undersized PF or regular size but can’t guard any decently good 7 footer.

Going for the first even year championship!

by Sh!fty on Jul 3, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

My point is that decently good 7 footers are far and few between. Who is it that Sheed would have trouble defending?

"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili

by VWolf on Jul 3, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Odom, Nowitzki, Lewis, maybe Lebron if the Cavs play small, West (basically, shooting 4’s). That is something that the spurs have always had trouble defending.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Jul 3, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

None of those guys are centers and most centers (especially the ones available) would not help defending those guys. I was arguing that we don’t necessarily need another center. Your list just bolsters my point. A guy like Sheed would be a solid defender on all of those guys.

"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili

by VWolf on Jul 3, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pau, Garnett (not sure if he’s 7’), Dirk ?

by shoothoop on Jul 3, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Two more power forwards who are best defended by power forwards.

"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili

by VWolf on Jul 3, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rasheed would guard those guys about as well as anyone could. Obviously they’d give us trouble, so you want a guy who’s tall, long arms, who are both strong enough to resist a post player and can move with reasonable agility. There just aren’t that many of those guys out there.

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. --Andy Dufresne

by tomasito on Jul 3, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Although there is the intimidation factor with Artest and he is very experienced, I still find it hard to rank him far above Ariza if at all.

With Ariza you get better shot selection (surprising from someone so much younger), but worse outside shooting.

Ron is a good rebounder for a SF, but Ariza is even better including from the all-important offensive end.

Ron is a little better in the assist to turnover department, but it’s not a huge difference.

Ron is probably a little bit better of a defender against most small forwards and guards, but Ariza is no slouch and Ariza’s quickness, athleticism, and length allowed him to be a better defender against quicker and taller players.

With the latest swap the Lakers stand pat at best and their probability of implosion has definitely increased.

If the Lakers cannot get Odom, then they will have slipped in my mind.

"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili

by VWolf on Jul 3, 2009 10:21 AM CDT reply actions  

Agree on the Odom thing, but not having signed Ariza improves the chances on signing him. I also agree with you on the implosion thing too because I think this Lakers team was a key injury or losing streak away from locker room meltdown. I read somewhere that they haven’t lost more than 2 games in a row since Pau got there. They haven’t been in any real trouble for more than a year and adding Artest only adds to the explosive factor. Remember is not even 2 years since Kobe DEMANDED a trade, adding Gasol made the team mesh nicely on the floor but everyone might be waiting to start pointing fingers when things go south just for a while.

Going for the first even year championship!

by Sh!fty on Jul 3, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Plus Ariza

was one of the guys who could actually consistently guard Parker.

Randy Blythe, Singer of Lamb of God- "Words can be broken, so can bones....." Omerta by Lamb of God

by KA1Z3R on Jul 3, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Excelent post.
We Need Sheed

"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"

by Chilai on Jul 3, 2009 10:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Trade For a Big Man and Back court Depth

I say trade for David West, go young, because he has all the tools sheed does, no attitude, younger, and once Tim and Manu is gone will only have to bring in a center and SG for the future. Also as far as, possibly bringing in another guard why not Jeremy Pargo the Spurs seemed very high on him before the draft so why not add him to the team for depth he’s not old and broken down and you have to know he can play if they were so excited about him.

by Texxus Boy on Jul 3, 2009 10:48 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree, I think we should trade Finley, Bonner, and Mason for David West. He is a good shooter, a good rebounder, and plays decent defense. I say it’s also a plus because he would be able to effectively guard a lot of the shooting 4 men in the league. That being said though, I doubt that New Orleans would do that trade with us. West is an All-Star, and we’re not really giving them back much, I hope that they are really strapped on cash and need to do it, but I doubt it.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Jul 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

theres no way theyd take that lousy package

if theyre about saving money, it would begin and end with Tiago, who they wouldnt have to pay for god knows how long, and a future pick and perhaps someone like Mason or Hill to give some sort of immediate benefit.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed, we’d have to give them tiago and/or a first round pick. that being said, do you think we should do it? I have no idea.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Jul 3, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I’m not really a big fan of West(he’s basically Bonner 2.0), I was just throwing that out there. I still want either Sheed, or a gigantic true center to clog the paint.

Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.

by Tim C. on Jul 3, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

well he's a bit better than that

Hes older than I thought (29), but 21 pts and nearly 9 rebs would be fine by me, but that would make Timmy guard Centers full time

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

keep dreaming….the hornets may be cutting costs, but trading West for a bunch of garbage? AT best we can pray for Chandler, but still a long shot (and he has injury problems).
Besides, West doesnt fit that well with timmeh and our roster. We already have scorers people! We dont need more. We need defense/rebounding. Stop thinking like the suns dammit.

"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"

by Chilai on Jul 3, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats exactly what i was saying

so I guess I’ll stop dreaming

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sheed would make a nice addition but we need some more power in the center of the paint I think. Pop relied too much on the drive and kick out last year and we got our asses kicked. No one respected our paint production so they knew they just had to guard the outside. When we were not hitting our shots we got killed. We need to go back to old school Spurs. First option, Timmy or big man in the paint (a la David), Second option drive by speedy guard, third option kick out for the three. We will only be successful when teams respect our post game again. We need a big man in the middle to help out with Timmy ( and not just to spread the floor)

"It's the ten-thousandth and one hammer blow that makes the team"

by Joe deLarios on Jul 3, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions  

While I’m on the Sheed-wagon, I can relate with what you’re saying about points in the paint. Sheed does like to play on the wing and hit him some 3’s. Easy points in the paint do sound more attractive, since we already have outside shooting with Rog/Manu, and really most of our guards can hit from a pretty decent depth.

by joe20 on Jul 3, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

What’s up, Artis? Are you still hangin’ out with Ice?

by 4Him on Jul 3, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

David Robinson hung out at the free throw line and shot jumpers when Timmy was around. They complemented each other well because Timmy could play inside and Robinson outside. Plus, defensively, Wallace is big enough that basically no one in the league (other than Shaq) is going to outmuscle or over power him defensively.

Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum are the guys we’ll have to defend. Timmy can handle one of them, but we need someone to handle the other. There are only a few guys in the league who can do a creditable job on them: Nene, Garnett, Howard… Sheed is probably the next best guy.

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. --Andy Dufresne

by tomasito on Jul 3, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

crazy pills will be fine for LA. my concern is now that Kobe has much less work to do on the defensive end. he doesn’t have to make as many shots as he did in houston.

whew. . . this coming season is gonna be bananas!

13 points in 39 seconds. Enough said.

by Duhoh on Jul 3, 2009 12:20 PM CDT reply actions  

RIK...

I dont agree that the spurs acted too soon in signing RJ…

Ron Artest would not have played here, hes had his eyes on the Lakers title bandwagon for several years now…

As for Ariza….RJ is a better player. Plus, who knows if San Antonio would have offered 6 years at the mid level for him. Who knows if he would have even wanted to play for us.

by alamobro on Jul 3, 2009 12:48 PM CDT reply actions  

I don’t think they did it too soon, just that they tipped other teams off as to their plans(especially with RC’s comments after the trade about being aggressive)

Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.

by Tim C. on Jul 3, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

What, no mention of the huge Clippers/Memphis trade?

The one that sent perennial All-Star Zach Randolph to the always relevant Grizzlies? A new contender has been crowned in the Southwest division.

All joking aside, I’ve always been a fan of Sheed, dating back to his Portland days. Any thought of his personality being a disruptive force in the locker room is over exaggerated. Pop should be able to whip him into shape, and Timmy is sure to take him under his wing. Plus, how stupid would Sheed have to be to realize this is his best shot short of the Lakers to win one or two final rings before he retires? He’ll get on board in a hurry.

"In time we hate that which we often fear." (that means you Dallas)

by TerribleTim on Jul 3, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions  

that’s right, but the celtics are on a similar postiion than the spurs. That’s where money will talk.

"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"

by Chilai on Jul 3, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

But if the celts are offering MLE with a 2 year deal, and we can match that or offer a 3 year, it would all be up to his own preference. And I honestly see him chosing SA over boston. He KNOWS that we are true contenders every single year, and he has his best shot here, as well as the taxes thing (Mass. apparently charges taxes up the ass, too).

by joe20 on Jul 3, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dont think Sheed is going under anyone’s wing at this point in his career.

"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG

by LasEspuelas on Jul 3, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Graydon wrote about Sheed again, and this time he included a cool personal anecdote.

Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.

by Tim C. on Jul 3, 2009 4:54 PM CDT reply actions  

I would think Tiago is pretty mature

Having played professionally for years now and for his national team, so I wouldnt worry about anyone having to babysit him.

So Im a bit confused, all we have to spend on anyone is the MLE? So its Sheed or Bust and then fill out the roster with our Dleaguers?

Even if we get him, Id still say we’re one guy short, Childress would be great to fill that role

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not just d-leaguers, but those dreaded veterans minimums are always available. The next incarnation of Nick Van Exel, Damon Stoudamire, or JV could come knocking on Pop’s door.

We also have the bi-annual exception I believe.

J-Chill would be awesome. Have you heard that he wants to come back to the U.S. early? Isn’t he already making more than the MLE?

"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili

by VWolf on Jul 3, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ive just seen his name on various websites

It doesnt seem like that European excursion last year was all it was cracked up to be, but I believe he does have the option to opt out of the remaining two years on that Greek deal.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can we get a PTR and 48MoH merge someday?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 5:07 PM CDT reply actions  

I’m not sure Tim and Graydon would touch this blog with a ten foot pole… I mean, we don’t have choice now, we’re contaminated. :)

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Jul 3, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

also, they’re affiliated with ESPN – and PtR is affiliated with Yahoo.

Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.

by Tim C. on Jul 3, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yahoo or yahoos?

My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri

by CapHill on Jul 3, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m going to say both.

Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.

by Tim C. on Jul 3, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haha :) (just because I’m not a LOL or GOL fan)

by silverandblack_davis on Jul 3, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

No joke! Those acronyms really get under my skin.

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

GOL

Yahoo!!! I’m under yo skin!!

Sorry JRW, drunk PtR time…

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Jul 4, 2009 3:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

no harm done — besides “my people call it sarcasm”

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Guffawing Out Loud:A Spurs Blog

Coming to an internet near you

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 4, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

sign me up!

Randy Blythe, Singer of Lamb of God- "Words can be broken, so can bones....." Omerta by Lamb of God

by KA1Z3R on Jul 4, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bren, that’s hilarious. I want the first copy! Will you autograph it for me?

What’s that? — Oh, you can’t sign the internet?

::Sighs::

Ok.

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

That’s like the Montagues and the Capulets, right?

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Jul 3, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Funny you mention that, I was watching Romeo & Juliet the other night.

by xman130 on Jul 3, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Which one? Leo and Claire or the classic ’68 version?

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Leo & Claire, although I’ve seen both versions. For some reason I like the “new” interpretation as well.

by xman130 on Jul 4, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

For sure. There’s tons in each to recommend them.

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Offensively

what Artest has in his game that Trevor did not is the ability to post-up. I don’t know of another team that can boast of being able to post-up 4 of 5 starters that can pass out of the double-team.

Defensively, I also expect Artest’s steals and blocks to go up b/c the Lakers play at a faster pace than the Rockets.

W/R/T which team improved the most, you have to give it to the spurs. Arguably, Artest’s all-around game is superior to Sean Elliot 3000’s, but adding Blair and McClinton trumps that.

I think they’d be on equal footing with LA with the addition of Wallace or McDyess.

"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."

by ignign*kt on Jul 3, 2009 5:23 PM CDT reply actions  

thats assuming McClinton even makes the roster

but Artest needs the ball in his hands to be most effective, where Ariza did not, so we’ll see if he fits as well in LA as he has in his previous stops

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jul 3, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

A lot of people said that Lamar couldn’t be effective without the ball in his hands too…

by shoothoop on Jul 3, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

And it’s often the case that he’s not.

Hey, there’s only one ball, and Kobe is definitely gonna get his touches. With all of the scorers that LA will have, there are only going to be so many shots to go around. Sometimes it’ll be Pau, sometimes Lamar, and sometimes Artest.

The point is, will they all stay happy when the only constant how often Kobe gets the ball. Not to bring up ancient history but, Shaq couldn’t take it anymore. (Not to say that there was only one reason for him leaving)

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 2:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Artest can post-up but he makes poor decisions when he gets down low.

It will be really interesting to see how Artest meshes offensively with the Lakers. Artest is a really odd offensive player IMO. He does not seem to conform to any system, but rather looks like he’s doing just what he feels like doing. Often that equates to not getting the ball to the best offensive player and shooting poorly selected shots. Sometimes though he has brilliant offensive games. I think he expects to have those brilliant games all the time and thus he thinks he’s better on offense than he actually is.

"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili

by VWolf on Jul 3, 2009 6:27 PM CDT reply actions  

He thinks he’s as good as Kobe on offense which leads to him taking some very ill-advised shots. I’m not sure Artest will be able to conform to the triangle offense.

by shoothoop on Jul 3, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t remember who was talking about this, but with Kobe taking his numerous shots, and Artest being a bit of a black hole on offense, Gasol could easily end up with fewer touches. Gasol is the Lakers’ 2nd-best option who can destroy teams inside – giving him (and subsequently, Bynum) fewer offensive chances would be very detrimental to the Lakers. I not saying this will happen, but I do think Artest is going to have to change his mindset on the offensive end to make it work. The Lakers’ biggest advantage over everyone else this year was their length and numbers inside (Gasol, Bynum, Odom).

My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri

by CapHill on Jul 3, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

ron has 82 games to get the triangle down, assuming he stays healthy

by FreshmakerDTM on Jul 3, 2009 7:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Post-season resume

Who is better Richard Jefferson or Ron Artest?

Richard Jefferson I repeat is no different from Jamal Crawford, is no different from Zach Randolph, is no different from Corey Maggete. If anything he is an inch better than Maggete. He puts up numbers but he does not win and does not know how to make his team win. Fortunately, the Spurs don’t need another winner… they simply need a scorer.

Don’t believe me? www.82games.com or google basketball reference or dberri wordpress.

Artest is the total opposite. He does not have ‘numbers’ like Zach Randolph. But where he goes.. his team wins. He has that +/- stat which ups him above RJ. Remember, there is ONLY one ball and less than 100 possessions. For this reason Artest outweighs RJ.

Once again, statistics do not lie.

by SimpleTruth on Jul 4, 2009 2:48 AM CDT reply actions  

For some reason, it was always my opinion that RJ didn’t necessarily need to have the ball to be effective. For this reason, I thought he was a better fit for the spurs. There is no doubting that Artest is the better talentl, but chemistry and fitting in is also very important. Now, for the sake of the Spurs, I hope that you are wrong about Jefferson being similar or comparable to those guys… and Artest being the opposite.

"He's Manu Ginobili"

by the little o on Jul 4, 2009 3:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

???

I don’t know how you can argue that Artest is better than Jefferson. Over their careers, RJ has a better FG%, 3-PT%, FT%, Reb. avg., PPG avg, and PER.

Where did Artest’s team win? In Chicago? Indiana? Sacramento? At least RJ is a two-time NBA finalist.

by 4Him on Jul 4, 2009 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Lakers traded Artest for Ariza. They are probably better than they were, but not loads better. You could even make the case they aren’t as good.

The Spurs, on the other hand, traded the pupu platter for Jefferson. They are loads better than they were.

To me, the answer to this is The Spurs. It’s not about is Artest is better than Jefferson, and if you are going to only stats like those and claim that Zach Randolph is as good as Jefferson then you are off your rocker and don’t know a thing about what wins and what doesn’t (there’s nothing quite like applying statistics when they support your point and discounting them when they don’t in the exact same post), it is about is Jefferson better than Artest minus Ariza or an equation: RJ > (Artest – Ariza)

Artest is a winner and Jefferson is not, huh? Jefferson has been to two Finals. I think Artest has gotten out of the first round a couple times. I think what you meant to say is ,“But where he goes…his team doesn’t want him any more”.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 4, 2009 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I started to respond to this, but after reading your last paragraph I realized that you probably intended to respond to ST, and not to me. But to your main point, I agree that RJ > (Artest – Ariza). Hopefully the equation will tilt even more positively in the Spurs’ favor in the coming weeks, or even days.

by 4Him on Jul 4, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I intended this as a reply to your comment, but to support your position.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 4, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

RJ > (Artest – Ariza)

You’re a man after my own heart.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Jul 4, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or, more accurately: (RJ – Finley with starter minutes) > (Artest – Ariza)

Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.

by Tim C. on Jul 4, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because the quantity (Finley with starter minutes) is negative, and by subtracting a negative quantity, you are in fact adding to RJ’s total.

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. --Andy Dufresne

by tomasito on Jul 4, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

GOL

tomas, that’s correct arithmetic — and perfectly hilarious

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

There is not a lot of truth or even substance to your post. I suggest you change your username because it is misleading.

To start, the comparison isn’t really that interesting. It is better to compare Artest to Ariza, and RJ to Finley to see how the teams fared with their acquisitions. But since you brought it up…

RJ has been to the NBA finals 2 times, no lie. He has also played in 78 playoff games in his 7 year NBA career. Artest has never been to the finals and has played in 44 playoff games in his 10 year career.

RJ had a very similar PER to Artest’s last season, and that was when Artest was on a much better team.

"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili

by VWolf on Jul 4, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

That’s the PTR i love, get that ball out of the park!

"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"

by Chilai on Jul 4, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Goodbye Mr. Spalding!

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

we still got Wilson

"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"

by Chilai on Jul 4, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rawlings, I believe.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 4, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’s a quote from a movie I couldn’t find a youtube vid for.

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 4, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’s still a Rawlings. :-)

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 4, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

From a Lakers Fan POV...

Honestly, when I first read about this trade, I didn’t feel it was momentous, or that it was a huge impact.

Looking at the trade again, I can see how the Spurs have just improved greatly in the SF position. But however, unless the Spurs can sign a decent PF/C, they’re just going to end up losing to the Lakers by Bynum/Gasol/Odom. From the position by position breakdown, we have…

PG: Tony Parker vs. Derek Fisher: Spurs definitely win here. However, the Lakers can resort to Farmar/Brown to try and contain Parker, but I have a feeling that isn’t going to work well. Offfensively, the LA triangle offense doesn’t need a true PG, so no loss there.

SG: Kobe vs. Ginobli: No contest. We could argue that Vujacic is useless, but nowadays, Phil Jackson just puts in Kobe the entire time anyways. Lakers win here.

SF: Jefferson/Finley vs. Artest/Walton: Spurs win here, unless Jefferson is overrated and Walton plays awesome all of a sudden.
PF: Gasol/Odom vs. Tim Duncan/Thomas: Lakers win. Odom/Gasol is just too good.
C: Bynum vs. Bonner: Yes, Bynum gets into foul trouble. Yes, he’s been playing terrible, But Bynum before he was injured was deadly. Add the fact that Gasol and Odom are happy to replace him, and it’s definitely a Lakers win. Heck, I’ve never even heard of Bonner until last season lol.

A little bit of history…2008, Lakers beat Spurs without Ariza and Bynum. Now, we’ve got Bynum+Artest. You’ve got Jefferson. Unfortunately, that’s not going to be enough. Again, the only way for the Spurs to win is if they get a strong frontcourt player. If not, Lakers will win again.

by inXile on Jul 4, 2009 8:10 PM CDT reply actions  

PF: Gasol/Odom vs. Tim Duncan/Thomas: Lakers win. Odom/Gasol is just too good.
  • Thomas doesn’t play for the Spurs. Backup PF duties probably go to Blair or Bonner depending on FA acquisitions, but come playoff time I would expect Duncan to get almost all the minutes.
  • Really? You give Odom/Gasol the edge over Duncan?

Also, I’d call SF more or less even, and the Spurs get the edge at PF(or C, wherever Duncan plays next year). But the offseason is still young, and there’s a lot yet to be written.

Bring back Bruce, and free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where RJ happens.

by Tim C. on Jul 4, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Take in account fatigue-if Duncan gets nearly all the minutes, he’ll get tired quickly.

You might say that Kobe will also get tired…honestly, how often do we see Kobe tired? I remember I saw him visibly tired only once the entire last season, during the Denver series. Also, Artest takes a burden off Kobe defensively.

But I still feel LA has the edge in PF.

by inXile on Jul 4, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’ll give you Gasol – he’s a baller. But Bynum? I really don’t understand why Lakers fans keep bringing him up as a big factor when he definitely wasn’t in the last playoffs. Maybe he’ll finally live up to his potential, but so far that’s all it is: potential.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Jul 4, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bynum is gonna be making over 12 mil a year for the next few seasons. Talk about stuuupid.

AKA: Linix129

by sw12 on Jul 4, 2009 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

The potential has been realized on several cases

Just not on a consistent basis. He had literally no spring in his legs the entire playoffs because he wasn’t fully recovered from his injury yet the Lakers put him back into the starting lineup, where he was rusty and not ready for the playoff intensity. If you must, look at his January numbers before he was injured against Memphis and he was on an absolute tear.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290125013

This is the game that I keep on coming back to when thinking about a potential Lakers-Spurs matchup because it was when everyone on either side was healthy. Both Bynum and Gasol were scoring well in the post, and whoever Duncan wasn’t guarding was getting torn up.

The primary big edge the Lakers lost over San Antonio was being able to put Ariza on Parker, as Ariza really bothered Parker with his length and quickness. Fisher is going to get burned, and I’m not sure Brown or Farmar have the defensive discipline to stay in front of Parker. You could see Phil field odd lineups like Kobe-Artest-Odom-Gasol-Bynum if this becomes a problem during a potential series.

Big problem that San Antonio still needs to address is obviously the frontcourt as others have mentioned. Whoever Duncan isn’t guarding is essentially liable to get burned, as San Antonio gave up a decent post defender in Thomas and basically the remainder of its frontcourt depth to get Jefferson. Even if San Antonio picks up Sheed — and it’s looking like Boston’s courting of him might win out — Sheed isn’t going to be playing for 40 minutes a night in the playoffs, and there’s going to be drawn out sequences in which Bonner or Blair is going to be forced to defend Gasol, Odom, or Bynum in the post. Still, it looks like it’s going to be hell of a WCF. McDyess is probably San Antonio’s first choice if they can’t get Sheed.

by Ben R on Jul 5, 2009 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Certainly, but Bynum isn’t a sure thing. We’ll see.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Jul 5, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bonner was on a absolute tear in February.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 5, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I could say that Manu/Mason vs Bryant/Vujacic was to the Spurs advantage if Vujacic sucks enough, but as you say, Phil just puts Kobe in and lets him play. I agree with that.

Therefore, I think you have to go with Gasol vs Duncan. Because Tim and Pau are going to be playing. I’d give Tim the advantage in that one.

So, how about Bynum/Odom vs Bonner/Thomas? Because when Odom gets serious minutes they are at Bynum’s expense. Obviously, this is still a big edge to the Lakers.

Right now, I would say that the Lakers are a fair bit better (Of course, that presumes that you guys sign Odom). If they met in a series I’d say Lakers in 6. The Spurs need a good big man and nobody doubts that. I think at that point, the Spurs getting a big man, it is a draw given both teams are healthy. I could argue either way at that point. That Artest isn’t as good a fit as Ariza. The Lakers don’t have anybody to cover Tony. Artest will hurt Lakers team chemistry. Rasheed will hurt Spurs team chemistry. Who has the better bench. Blah, blah blah. If the Spurs pick up a good big man then the West will be a two team race with a couple of thoroughbreds and the WCF will be a hell of a battle.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 4, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

i love me some timmy...

but pau is in his prime right now with fresher legs.

if anything by the way pau has consistently played since being a laker, you have to call pau vs tim at least even.

take it easy on me fellow timmy lovers!

by FreshmakerDTM on Jul 6, 2009 8:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Heresey. Where’s my carrot and string?

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 6, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 6, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pau over Timmy D? You’re seriously wrong. Tim’s basketball IQ alone means advantage Spurs.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney
I don't like chatty. I don't do chatty. I like quiet. Quiet and mean. Those are my people. - Nurse Jackie

by bellasa on Jul 6, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

i didn’t say over, i said at least even

by FreshmakerDTM on Jul 6, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t care if we’re talking about tendonosis victim TD here, I would never, ever put Pau on par with him(and I don’t think your average Laker fan qould either). As bella said, B-ball IQ is worth something, and Pau’s, while not terrible, is nowhere near Timmy’s.

Bring back Bruce!
Pounding the Rock - where young and ath-uh-letic happens.

by Tim C. on Jul 6, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Average Laker fan WOULD put Pau over TD this year

THIS YEAR. make sure to say that before folks start ripping my head off.

Career wise, definitely not. Pau is in his Prime, Timmy is nearing the end of his championship-window time frame.

Not only is Pau’s Basketball IQ “not terrible” but he is one of the best basketball minds in the game today. Just ask Phil Jackson and Hubie Brown who slobbers all over Pau everytime he talks about him. It’s the reason Pau picked up the offense so quickly after being traded mid season.

Pau has every bit the offensive game that TD has(minus the bank shot). He does not stack up in the defensive department, but that’s what makes Timmy D an All-timer.

But don’t forget that this guy limited Dwight Howard to 2 dunks in the entire finals. I know he was a marshmallow last year, but after actually hitting the gym he has turned into a pretty good defender.

by UnleashTheMamba on Jul 7, 2009 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

On behalf of PtR, I’m taking it upon myself to thank you for not being ALF (Average Laker Fan) so that I can welcome you our humble dwelling — while actually meaning it.

Thanks for the input, UTM. And you can feel free to put the leash back on the mamba as soon as you’re able.

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 7, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I still disagree. Then again, we tend to value defense more here than the fans of most other teams.

Bring back Bruce!
Pounding the Rock - where young and ath-uh-letic happens.

by Tim C. on Jul 7, 2009 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Please remember to include defensive value in further valuations.

My name is DeJuan Blair. You blocked my shot. Prepare to die. - CH&LD
I want my Manu o;—-)

by J.R. Wilco on Jul 6, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not even close to being even.

"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili

by VWolf on Jul 7, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Offensively I’d take Pau right now. But defensively Duncan.

Just call me The Profit

by Manuwar on Jul 7, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

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