Theo Ratliff a Spur?
by Aaronstampler on Jul 23, 2009 3:15 AM CDT
145 comments
According to Spurstalk. Nobody here had this? Apparently RJ blabbed it to someone...
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Wow, Kori Ellis says it’s confirmed. Another example of how the Spurs work under the radar. Nice catch, Stampler.
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 23, 2009 1:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Also, someone has to be getting traded – we now have 7 bigs under contract:
TD
Dice
Bonner
Ian
Blair
Haislip
Ratliff
I’m not sure what we’re up to, but it’s certainly interesting.
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 23, 2009 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope it Bonner. These are the bigs we know for shrue are staying. Duncan,Blair,McDyess and the others are all up in the air.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHOS TO TRADE?
I think that the Spurs organization is looking at The Atlanta Hawks dealing with Marvin Williams the HAWKS can use a center like IAN , put Finley and others in the mix and you have a trade. Marvin is young and a great defender and needs to get out of Atlanta and go to an organization like the Spurs whom I think that can exploit his talent.
by RICKEYW on Jul 23, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A trade isn’t essential. Haislip can spend some time at the 3. Pop will want to limit both Dice’s and Duncan’s minutes in the regular season. Ian and Blair are unproven. With 2 old starters who need rest and some young guys who might not be ready to contribute, it isn’t crazy to think that we might keep all of them, especially since Haislip is probably a combo forward.
I like this addition by the way. A true shotblocker, even if he is ancient.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 2:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Blair is NBA ready and Ian is D league Ready. Who know what they are going to do with Ian. There has to be a trade in the works unless they just plan on letting Ian go. The sprus are most likely goign to waive someone if they can or a trade is in the works.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 2:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blair looks good so far, but he has not played an NBA game yet and his body has not had to endure the rigors of an NBA season. I am quite sure that the Spurs are not counting on Blair to be a key piece of the championship puzzle this season. If he is, then that’s gravy, but I am sure the Spurs are playing it smart on Blair.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 2:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said before, Haislip = Camp Body
Give a man a chicken and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to chicken and he'll call you crazy and question your command of the English language.
by Aaronstampler on Jul 23, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. Neither Haislip or Williams contracts are guaranteed, plus Ian has a team option for next year, so camp is going to be proving ground V2.0 (with Summer League being V1.0). Depending what shakes out in camp, the trade market/options for the Spurs could change. It’s not like all trades have to be done in the next month.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
by CapHill on Jul 23, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you guys confusing Haislip with Hairston? Haislip has a guaranteed contract and is on the team to actually play some minutes.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Haislip is guaranteed according to everything I’ve read. There’d be no point to him coming over from Spain if his contract was unguaranteed.
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 23, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I misread ShamSports. Haislip is guaranteed, but Williams and Hairston aren’t.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
by CapHill on Jul 23, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm…I certainly didn’t see that one coming. This off season is puzzling, to say the least! In a good way! I hope!
Hi, my name is Ed, and I despise the Lakers.
by dfjmed on Jul 23, 2009 1:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Looks like Bonner is on his way out…but that’d leave only TD and Ian with any familiarity with the Spurs system…does that sound like something the Spurs would do?
by Toki9 on Jul 23, 2009 1:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, my guess is Ian might be on his way out. New fanpost coming soon.
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 23, 2009 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes more sense to me, but they better get something good in return.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 2:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if this is true this is a great siging. Ratliff is a great deffender. They probably brought him in for deffensive specialst. He averaged about 1 block a game so he still got it and hopefully can brign it to the spurs. That is if this rumor is true. Altough RJ better not keep saying things before the sprus are ready or Pop is going to have a little talk with him before the season starts.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 1:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know this has nothing to do with this but has anyone noticed when you add up the big three number’s they equl david robinson number.
21+20+9=50
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 2:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
holy shnickes!
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
by Chilai on Jul 23, 2009 2:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice info i never noticed that
WHY IS THE SKY BLUE.....BECAUSE GOD LOVES THE INFANTRY
by JoshuaV on Jul 23, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ratliff sucks. You heard it here first. He’s as good as a corpse to me. This is a crap move by the FO, unless they’re going to use him as part of a trade chip for something better.
by silverandblack_davis on Jul 23, 2009 3:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I really hope your kidding. Ratiff is a great shot blocker and can deffend the Lakers big and the other’s big in the league.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 4:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ratliff was a very good shot blocker… but that was about it… and now he is old, used and abused…
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
by LasEspuelas on Jul 23, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I see him as a life insurance, in case of injury.
by spursfan87 on Jul 23, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He still averages 4 blocks in 48 minutes at this advanced age. He is old, but so was Dikembe. He can have his uses.
In addition to just blocking shots he is a solid defender all around and he can rebound.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying that he’s a bad sign. All I’m saying is that the spurs sign him because he is a life insurance in case of injury or that Ian doenst play at the level he’s expected. He is going to be also helpful in the games that pop’s decides to give duncan the night off
by spursfan87 on Jul 23, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I am not really disagreeing with you. My post was a response to LasEspuelas. I think he is insurance and will be used in certain matchups. He is not going to be the starting center or even the first post off the bench most nights.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree… I think he’ll sub in for timmy off the bench for about 15 minutes a night, assuming that Ian doesn’t develop as expected. The FO wasn’t too thrilled with what they saw out of Ian in the summer league (inconsistency, fouls, no aggressiveness), so I think signing Theo is just a in case Ian doesn’t progress as a basketball player.
On back to backs, I think the Spurs will sit Tim down and let Theo play instead of Duncan, then Ian can come off the bench for Theo. Of course, if Ian gets better, i expect him to take over the minutes given to Ratliff.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 23, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason the spurs brought him in is to help deffend the bigs out in the west and east. He probably wont get much min. His min will probably be depding on if we are having trouble with a big and need help. He is a good low post deffender and should help out at times. He is shure as hell the best insurance for a player you can get.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I’m not. Ratliff has been known as Mr. Big Expiring Contract for how many years, until that contract finally expired. He could be good for 2-3 minutes, 5 minutes max and I’m being optimistic with that already. Mobile centers like Pau, Dwight, and Amare will run circles around Ratliff’s rotting corpse. And if McDyess is injury prone, then Theo is the word injury made flesh. Good locker room influence and veteran presence, at best. I just don’t find any sense in this.
by silverandblack_davis on Jul 23, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+ a million
Bonner’s a better option IMO than Theo, and that’s saying something. Not exactly tremendously excited over this one; it’s almost like we were just looking for someone over 6’6" and not named Jacque Vaughn. And how are we paying this guy anyway?
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Jul 23, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bonner is a better option if you want a 3 point shot. Rat is a better option if you want to defend the post, rebound, and block shots. Both are on the team right now though so it isn’t an either/or proposition.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There has to be a trade. The spurs wont start the season with 7 bigs on there team. When was the last time the spurs had that many bigs. They are planning a trade or if they can waive someone.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have had 6 post players plenty of times before. If you factor in Duncan’s and McDyess’ age, the number of unseasoned players, and the potential for one of them to play as a combo forward it isn’t that crazy. I won’t be shocked either way.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely a trade before season starts
I don’t see keeping 7 bigs either when we are still “thin” at the 2 or 3 position and I think the Ian “project” has reached an end maybe plus haven’t we been trying to trade Bonner for the last couple of years? I would think Houston who is desperate and facing “center by committee” this year would listen to add depth to the Aussie they just got. Something like Ian, Bonner for Battier? But they would probably want a third (Finley, Mason, Hairston, etc)
by comsys on Jul 27, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a good move. This Spurs team was heavy on PFs and low on Cs (especially defensive centers). He is not going to be asked to play big minutes but he will be available for certain matchups. He is way better to have on the team than the guy in your pic. They probably got him for the minimum or LLE.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Official News Story from WOAI
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 23, 2009 4:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
we signed someone who’s 36 years old.
36.
same as it ever was….same as it ever was…….
free george hill!
by sleep research facility on Jul 23, 2009 7:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
You know the FO was screaming internally with all this youth. “Pain…increasing. Must…acquire…someone…ancient.” They got Theo, and suddenly everyone can relax. “Ahhhh….”
"Give me chonchon."
by Slowpoke Rodriguez on Jul 23, 2009 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think some of you may know that it’s one of my jobs here to abuse TLO (per agreement) and I’ve found that if this Theo Ratliff signing goes bad, we can definitely blame it on TLO, because of this comment from last week.
Yes, the man actually wondered out loud whether the Spurs had gotten young too quickly. As we all know, the FO reads PtR constantly. We can deduce the rest. As Slowpoke stated, the when they realized that they were about to complete a roster without at least one certified rotting corpse – they were forced to act.
Balance is now restored.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 23, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say we keep Ratiff he is a very good low post deffender when healty. He can play maybe 8 min a game. Probably more if we are having trouble with a big. I know everyone saying keep IAN but if we got a deal for a good player we should trade him. PEOPLE Bonner has a expiring contract that something attractive to some teams. I say trade Bonner as our first option. Bliar and McDyess are going to eat up his min. I rather see Ratiff out there than bonner. He can just shoot that it. offenisve wins game defensive win championhips.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Jebus! How could I have been so stupid to ask
Did the Spurs get young too quickly? It’s a good question.
such a stupid question! Oh if only there i would’ve listened to somebody (Big50) and recant my questioning. Then the FO would’ve never seen it, and wouldn’t have gotten Ratlif. Instead, I had to listen to my abuser rant about the younger than a fetus (that’s right, sperm) Mr. Potato head. =]
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 23, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blameshift much?
Hey! I didn’t say that I noticed the danger in time. I’m just saying that in retrospect, it’s difficult to avoid the fact that you might have been responsible for forcing the FO to act foolishly.
Bringing up my reply to your inflammatory comment is nothing more than an attempt to deflect blame and attention from your potentially irresponsible act.
Of course, if Theo ends up anchoring our bench and providing great defense while Timmeh is resting, then we can just forget this whole conversation ever happened.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 23, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only when there is evident blame to deflect away from me
Sure I was the one who mentioned it, but what do I know, the FO still considers me a newb to PtR and doesn’t take too seriously the majority of my comments (they don’t care about smileys). It was you however, saying that it was a good question, that made it a relevant issue to the front office. “Of course, JRW, he’s a seasoned vet here at PtR, we should take him seriously”.
Sure, we’ll forget about it soon, just like you forget about everything else until it’s most convenient.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 23, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I should be looking in the mirror. It’s me, not him. It’s —
Wait. No! I’m going to forget about this.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 23, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
forget about what? =]
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 23, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if this signing happened five years ago I would have been excited…
Maybe.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Hirschof on Jul 23, 2009 7:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Huh.
I’m ambivalent about this move. I could see him giving us some good minutes off the bench against guys who are too tall for Blair to handle defensively: Bynum, Gasol, Shaq, etc. I could see Ian stepping up and Ratliff sitting at the end of the bench all season. I could see Ian hurting his ankle again, meaning we’d need another true big. I do agree that this seems to signal that Bonner may be on the way out.
On the plus side, Ratliff’s got to be better than the JV, right? If we are upgrading our roster 1-8, we might as well upgrade our 12th man as well.
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. --Andy Dufresne
by tomasito on Jul 23, 2009 7:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Im with you.I say we keep Ratiff and let him take some of Ian min if he is a bust. I still am not imprssed by Ian until i see him kiking * in the big league im not conviced. That not to say I dont think he a bad player just that he hasn’t proven himself NBA ready yet.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OY!!
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
by LasEspuelas on Jul 23, 2009 8:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i like it, not wildly, but i do like it.
ratliff will play hard and provide depth in terms of interior defense, which is sorely lacking with the current line-up. this makes me think that the spurs were not as high on yawn’s summer league performance as we at PtR were.
one of the big worries this year is health and this might provide some depth – the other big concern i am starting to have is team chemisty. some posts in the other thread talked about that and i agree. remember that old spurs rule about it taking guys a full season to adjust to our system? well it seems that we have a ton of those kind of guys all the sudden.
by bones on Jul 23, 2009 8:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
but I don’t think our system is the same/complex as it was a few seasons ago. Who knows how it will play out.
Regardless, I’m hoping we picked up some quick studies…
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Hirschof on Jul 23, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RJ is...
Going to be in trouble over this. Gotta learn that the Spurs don’t leak stuff like this. I am of the opinion that the Spurs aren’t trading anybody at this point. I think that Pop and the FO are needing a few of the “old guard” to help this team transition.
I think Theo Ratliff is a depth move and that it’s a good one. Yes, he’s old, but that’s fine with this team. He’s not going to be asked to play big minutes, just good defensive filler minutes. I like it for the depth of our defense.
by Big50 on Jul 23, 2009 9:49 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
He could be our less badass, better defending Kevin Willis
AKA: Linix129
by sw12 on Jul 23, 2009 11:05 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
He is pretty ripped, much like Willis was at this advanced age. Thankfully though he doesn’t have T-Rex arms like Willis.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True but he doesn’t have the guns, Willis’ were like a foot tall.
AKA: Linix129
by sw12 on Jul 23, 2009 12:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Useless forearms
Thank you, Lauri. Thank you so much.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 23, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like i said before there is going to be a trade. can you name at least 3 teams that start the season with 7 bigs before. The sprus always have one spot avalibe just incase.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. So far the RJ signing has not been filled with good omens. First there was the story about his canceled wedding and now this. He’s got to get indoctrinated, and fast.
Then again, Tony says a lot of dumb shit, and the Spurs still keep him around….
Give a man a chicken and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to chicken and he'll call you crazy and question your command of the English language.
by Aaronstampler on Jul 23, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony does have the foot-in-mouth thing from time to time. It’ll be interesting if Pop or somebody in the FO sits down with RJ and says: “Keep your yapper shut.” Of course we’ll never hear of it.
by Big50 on Jul 23, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless it doesn’t work, of course, and RJ tells us about it.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 23, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or it does work, and RJ gets converted to a true Spur and only gives the media short, snippy, meaningless responses or nothing at all. Then we’ll know Pop or the FO set him straight.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 23, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point little O. Very clever thinking.
by Big50 on Jul 23, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once he goes into Pop dog house he be a changed player just like Stephon Jakson.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 23, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO! I don’t want Yawn to go!
DO NOT WANT!
And I miss Bruce!
::tantrum::
by Lauri on Jul 23, 2009 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Ian is going anywhere. He was pretty good in summer league, he’s a shot blocker, and he’s cheap. I don’t have much of an opinion on Ratliff. He’ll be somewhere between the 11th and 15th man.
Give a man a chicken and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to chicken and he'll call you crazy and question your command of the English language.
by Aaronstampler on Jul 23, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly my point.
It’s bad enough that I’m old. Can’t someone on my team be young?
Thank goodness for Blair . . .
by Lauri on Jul 23, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Ian was excellent in summer league.
I am tremendously ignorant where Ratliff is concerned.
All this change . . . I know it’s mostly good, I’m rolling with it, I’m trying to . . . dear FSM, October is so far away . . .
by Lauri on Jul 23, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank goodness college football starts at the end of August, but only if your Longhorns beat the Sooners this year.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
by CapHill on Jul 23, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bonner is gone, baby, gone.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 23, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I truly hope you guys are right. I just don’t know if the Spurs see it the same way.
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 23, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If
If this move means they launch the Rocket (pun intended), I’m okay with it. Pop’s experiment with him did not work. Period. If it means we trade Ian, I’ll be pissed. At least give the guy a damn chance.
by agutierrez on Jul 23, 2009 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t put it past Pop and RC to use this signing to try and light a fire under Ian. I think they know what they have with DeJuan (and Dice and Ratliff, for that matter), but before they pick up Ian’s option, they want to know if he’s going to be able to contribute. Anyone know the deadline for deciding on Ian’s option for 2010-2011?
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
by CapHill on Jul 23, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The day before the NBA season starts.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 23, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Ian? Where did that come from? Why would they trade him after waiting two years from him to develop and get healthy?
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 23, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the same thought I had. It doesn’t make sense to me.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jul 23, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor me. I like the idea of Ian getting good as a Spur and sticking around for 10 years or so.
by Big50 on Jul 23, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blair, Mahinmi, and Splitter could be one of hell of a foundation for a future front court with Parker and Hill leading the back court.
by BlaseE on Jul 23, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RJ the future Finley?
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 23, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another good veteran who gets their first ring with us? I can live with that.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Hirschof on Jul 23, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one, two, etc… whatever. I’m sure its a ring he isn’t afraid to put on.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Hirschof on Jul 23, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Brutal. Me likes.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 23, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say we trade Bonner/Finely. I actully like keeping finely around but if we could get a good player in return it worth it.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 23, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, Ian is cheaper now than either Findog or Bonner.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
by CapHill on Jul 23, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minority?
I like this move he’s are new KT with better defense minus the jumpshot.
by JaySo on Jul 23, 2009 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The best thing about this move is that it means we won’t have to see Bonner guarding true centers during the season. I don’t hate Bonner (in fact, you can refer to this rant with my feelings about the Big Ginger), but it is painful watching him try to guard the Shaqs, D. Howards, and Bynums of the world. In fact, Pop would usually have to put him on a 4 and let Tim guard the 5, which has several bad repercussions (foul trouble for Tim, banging on Tim’s body, etc). I like Ratliff as a 10-15 minute defensive big who can provide length and rebounding. But that’s all he is and will be. He’s not going to guard 4s. He’s not going to score. And he will collect a few DNP-CDs when we play teams w/o true centers (Warriors, Knicks, and Detroit come to mind immediately).
JaySo, I think it’s accurate: he’s filling the Kurt Thomas role, but he’s longer, has a poorer jump shot, and is less likely to kill someone and leave notes pieced together from newspaper clippings as clues. Although “better” defense than KT would be questionable, I think he’s more of a specialist. Kurt could guard any post player fairly well. Theo will guard only true back-to-the-basket posts, but might do a better job than KT with those players because of his length.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain
by spurchief on Jul 23, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
GOL at the newspaper clippings comment.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 23, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, that’s a good one — thanks, chief
and that was a good rant of yours from earlier this month
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 23, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You go away for two freaking days…
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 23, 2009 2:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don’t ever, ever go away again. I, for one, couldn’t handle it when we immediately picked up Clifford Robinson or Dale Davis.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Jul 24, 2009 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard we’re after Mutombo.
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 24, 2009 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard we already signed his wagging index finger.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 24, 2009 3:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m glad we got the most athletic part of his body, must’ve been expensive for our FO.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 24, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excercise without supplementation is suicide!
I can’t believe no one has made reference to Mr. Ratliff’s spectacular website yet: theo-ratliff.com
That layup he does in the backdrop of the video is awe-inspiring.
by jkalb on Jul 23, 2009 7:15 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Oh I am still laughing. WTF was that screen saver in the background.
"Give me chonchon."
by Slowpoke Rodriguez on Jul 23, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
alright, I think we officially solved two issues with the Ratliff signing. The getting too young to quickly issue and the lack of a freaking nut job on the team.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
by LasEspuelas on Jul 23, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well…with all of this new youth, ’we’re putting the bounce in our step!’ :: crickets ::
Hi, my name is Ed, and I despise the Lakers.
by dfjmed on Jul 23, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is so true
The vital “Freaking Nut Job” slot was vacant. Nice work.
Apropos of nothing, I was reading over at Mavs Moneyball today (among other sister sites) and the difference between the posters here and there are amazing. PtR is all analysis and dry wit; MM is like listening to a schizophrenic homeless person.
"Give me chonchon."
by Slowpoke Rodriguez on Jul 23, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People must be wondering what just caused that violent outburst of laughter from my office.
Oh man. I can’t stop imagining this.
“No, man, the Suns THE SUNS! they used to listen to my thoughts, but then the pain monster gently ate their faces off. Yuh huh, yuh huh. And Bowen isn’t really gone, he told me, he’s just waiting, circling overhead. Circling. Circling. ::airplane noises, arms outstretched:: JET! JET! Hey man, got any change? Got any change? I gotta go to the Internet cafe today. Cuban tells me what to do through his blog. Got any change? Come on, I — well EAT HASSELHOFF’S SHIT MAN! Hassel hoff. Hassle. Quit hasslin’ me, bro. I was gonna be best man at Dirk’s wedding.”
by Lauri on Jul 24, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
GOL
Lauri, ever see the back of a twenty dollar bill?
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 24, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, Dave Chapelle. Come back. I miss you.
by Lauri on Jul 24, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
such a good movie. Poor us not having Dave Chappelle anymore.
You reminded me of Jon Stewart’s character in that movie, when you impersonated a MM member.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 24, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By rights, you should be green by now
Lauri, how can I possibly be the first to rec this wonderful slice of comic virtuosity? Oh, wow. I just can’t speak highly enough of your gifts. Turning on Slowpoke’s comment and riffing out this pitch perfect combination of SHP (schizophrenic homeless person) and Mav’s Moneyball poster.
I’m simply in awe. Highest compliments to you, my dear. ::doffs cap::
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 24, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BS
I was under the opinion that achieving a perfect score on the JRW Humor Scale (GOL), was so much more worthy than a rec. Sure people rec certain things that they find very agreeable, truthful, or funny, but ever since I joined, the expression for a comment making you crack up instantaneously has been GOL. And if this is not true, then the only person you have to blame is your… uhh… dammit. myself. =/
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 25, 2009 4:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as you might have guessed already, I recced you Lauri, since I lost my own argument. This doesn’t take away what I felt about a GOL being more worthy of than a recc though.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 25, 2009 4:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this case, TLO, it’s not about any humor scale or pithy little collection of letters. I was moved. And when that happens, all subjective measurements are about as useful as a screen door on a submarine and you’re out in uncharted territory, finding your way without a map. That’s why I couldn’t just type a couple of letters and be done. I was compelled to write what I did by the admiration I felt for her comment.
That is all.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 25, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. He has rebound pills? Maybe we can feed Bonner some of that to increase his trade value.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
by LatinD on Jul 23, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are rebound pills kinda like the penis mightier?
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 24, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Classic. I loved “Ape Tit” as well.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Jul 24, 2009 1:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That bit refuses to get old.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 24, 2009 3:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike Theo Ratliff.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 24, 2009 3:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spurs = 2010 NBA Champions. Signed. Sealed. Delivered.
half cool - half old school
by zargo7 on Jul 24, 2009 12:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It must be all the pills…
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
by LasEspuelas on Jul 24, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the only reason the “sprus” were interested.
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 24, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For all the fans who hate this acquisition, just realize that this is only a 1 year contract for the veteran’s minimum. It doesn’t really merit that much ire. He isn’t a second string PG, so he isn’t going to be killing the offense (someone made a JV comparison). He is a third string center who is just going to be there to rebound and defend, or to occasionally throw down a put back (yes he can still dunk, he just did in the playoffs). If he isn’t defending or rebounding well, Pop won’t even play him. Nothing to fear.
BTW, Oberto signed with the Wiz-ahhds for the LLE (close to 2 million). I like this pickup much better. Rat is a better defender than Oberto and we have enough offensive firepower to more than make up for Oberto’s occasional backdoor layups.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 24, 2009 11:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
True dat about Theo, but it also means that we lose a roster spot. To a 7th big man. And those (I can’t believe I’m saying this as a SPURS fan) are getting rather valuable.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Jul 24, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are really worried about roster spots (with 15 of them)?
The risk of carrying 16% more big men than usual is mitigated by:
- Duncan’s and McDyess’ age (limited minutes in regular season)
- Ian’s and DeJuan’s inexperience (not sure they can be trusted yet)
- Haislip’s flexibility (he is a quick, face-up forward with range)
Just imagine if both Ian and DeJuan turn out to be not quite ready for prime time. If we didn’t have Theo, Duncan and McDyess would have to play more minutes. Bonner would be leaned on a lot at the 5 since Haislip is by no means a center. This acquisition just makes sense to me, even if we don’t trade anyone.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 24, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your logic, I really do. But bottom line is that IMO having 7 bigs on a roster of 15 “doesn’t make sense.” Having 47% of your available roster taken by bigs “doesn’t make sense.” I only hope that this means a deal/trade is coming, but it’s somewhat insanity to me that we just added another big who can’t score. Especially since several will be seeing very limited PT over the season. Why not fill Theo’s spot with a player who will be even more help, or see less DNP-CDs? I like Theo, but if this was coming then why ever bring over Hayslip?
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Jul 24, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are the other bigs who cannot score? Duncan, Dice, Haislip, Bonner, and Blair are all scorers. Ian is the only other one besides Theo who is offensively challenged.
I don’t see who the Spurs could have gotten for the minimum or the LLE who could have fit as well as the Rat. He is the only true center on the team.
As far as the 15 man roster goes, we know that only 12 will be active at any point. If there are 5 post players on the active list, and 2 inactive, then the fact that 7 of the 15 are bigs is not such a detriment.
40% of your typical lineup is post players.
5 out of 12 is 41.6%
I see Haislip and Theo as having entirely different roles. Theo will be a traditional center to defend the post, block shots and rebound. Haislip will be a combo forward who can cause matchup problems on offense and maybe can learn to defend those long scorers that always give us trouble (Dirk etc.).
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 24, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, with a career average of 3.6 PPG, I wouldn’t exactly call Haislip a “scorer.” Granted, over 48 that’s nearly 17 a game; but there’s generally a reason when players average 10 MPG over a career.
And you yourself said Blair was unproven. We KNOW he’s a boarder without ACLs, but not that he’ll be a scoring threat.
That leaves Bonner, Dice and Timmy. All other bigs really, at this point, bring mainly one quality to the table other than being tall. And numbers and percentages aside, find me another roster with 47% bigs. It’s uncommon.
I think I’d rather have Bowen on the bench with a DNP than Theo, but that’s just me. Theo will no doubt be an asset at some point this season, the whole thing just seems weird.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Jul 24, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haislip has established himself as a scorer in Europe. He was the leading scorer on his talented team in Spain.
Blair is unproven, but he can score. He has nice inside moves. That is something apparently not everyone knows about him. He shot close to 60% from the field in college and scored almost 16 points per game.
Neither of those guys are like Theo, who nobody ever expected to develop an offensive game.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 24, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overall, I agree with VWolf that this is not a bad move. He’s an extra big. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, we should keep in mind that we only have 13 rosters spots guaranteed right now. Hairston and Williams are not guaranteed.
The part of VWolf’s statement I don’t necessarily agree with is the part about scorers. I think it depends on how you define scorer. Of the guys you list as scorers, only Tim and maybe Haislip are capable of creating their own shot. Dice and Bonner are pure spot up shooters. Blair is a garbage man. I would actually say that of the non-Tim Duncan group, Ian is the best scorer in that he can get the ball in the blocks and make points for himself. But, that is neither here nor there in this discussion.
If you count Hairston, Williams, and Jefferson as forwards — and I do — then we have 10 front court players and 5 back court players. And that’s if you count Finley as a shooting guard and not everybody does since he was our starting small forward for large chunks of last year.
I think we may find ourselves very thin in the back court with only Tony, Manu, George, and Roger. If only one of them gets hurt, we are very thin.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 24, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s funny . . . seems like just a few weeks ago we were talking about how badly we needed to shore up our front court. Look at us now.
by Lauri on Jul 24, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true. I think you all made valid and well thought out points. I haven’t decided who’s right yet, but I like the conversation.
by Big50 on Jul 24, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say they could create their own shots (just that they could score)…setting the bar a bit high for bench post players aren’t you?
If they think of Williams as solely a front court player (and not a PG or at least a G as some have theorized) then he probably won’t be on the team.
Hairston is really too small to be an NBA SF, so if he cannot make the transition to at least being a swingman, then he probably should not make the team.
The backcourt/frontcourt dichotomy isn’t the only way to slice it. In many ways the modern SF has more in common with the SG than the PF. Also, I think of Finley as a guard regardless of whether or not he plays the 2 or 3.
If we end up with 7 post players, 1 of whom can play some 3, 5 guards and 3 small forwards we should be OK. Put 2 post players and 1 guard or SF on the inactive list and the ratio is perfect. Since the post has the oldest starters it makes sense to bolster that position a little more.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 24, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I wasn’t setting the bar high, just going for clarification. I wouldn’t have ever called Bonner a scorer. He is a good shooter. He can’t drive though. In that sense, he’s a lot like Bruce Bowen and I never would have called Bruce a scorer. That’s more or less what I was getting at.
To me, Drew Gooden, is a scorer and is interesting because of it as a bench post player.
(regarding your comment about Blair above)
I noted on numerous occasions throughout summer league that Blair has great footwork in the post. I still don’t think that makes him a very effective offensive player. I think he will have a very difficult time translating that scoring to the NBA where he is severely under-sized and doesn’t — yet — have a mid-range game.
All in all, I am still agreeing with you, though I’m not sure how you were differentiating between SF and swingman? Of course, it’s not really important how you categorize them. I think it’s more about how the Spurs use them and who they match up against. So, I will re-group to what I think you are getting at.
The Spurs used Manu, Michael Finley, and Bruce Bowen pretty interchangeably for several years depending on match ups. That part of the Spurs system won’t change.
So, if you go with swingmen of Manu, RJ, Hairston, Williams, Finley, and Mason. We have 6 guys for those two positions. 7 guys for the two front line positions. Hill and Parker for the PG positions with Mason and Manu as emergency guys if one gets hurt or Hill regresses.
I think historically, the Spurs have gone with 3 point guards, 6 swingmen, and 6 front court guys. Essentially 3 guys per position. The choice created by the flexibility of Manu and Mason to also cover the point has allowed them to use that third PG roster spot in another way.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 24, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there was a little semantic misunderstanding. SIMA hinted that we have a plethora of big men who “cannot score.” While I agree that after Duncan there aren’t a lot of guys who are “scorers” a la Gooden, we have other players who are not painful on offense (like Theo is). They can fill the cup when necessary and I wouldn’t say that they “cannot score.”
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 24, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree on the semantic part. “Can not score” is something only a caveman would say.
You know what, I think the roster analysis needs it’s own post.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 24, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yippee! A harmless bust on SiMA while simultaneously setting the table for a more in-depth analysis of what’s already been a fascinating discussion.
Way to start a Saturday morning.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 25, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Can’t score” = isn’t ever an offensive threat of any kind to any opposing team. When and if a player (and you can put Theo’s name here) hits 15 points in a given game and PtR suddenly ripples with glee and traffic spikes uncontrollably…. that’s what I’m talking about. That there is a “can’t scorer.”
Oooooo, oooooooo, aaaaaaaarrrrrrgggg.
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Jul 25, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haislip is going to be on the bench. Hopefully he can be a good backup for RJ but if he cant make the transition to a NBA SF he is gone. As for the bigs. Someone is leaving as I keep saying. Hasilip or Theo can be trade bait you never know. Altough if someone is going I wish it could be Bonner.I know some of you guys still may want to keep Bonner but he is Uslees. Shrue he can shoot 3 but that is all he can do. He is not athletic he is not a good low post scorer. Why I dont like him most is because he sucks at D. Offensive power win’s you game’s Deffensive power wins you championhips. As for Theo I hope he doesn’t get traded. He is going to get min but only agaisnt certatin teams. For example the Orlonda Magic and Dwight he will probably be sent to help our frontline if Dwight is just domanating us.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
by Manu-20 on Jul 24, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see Haislip or Theo as trade bait. Both of them were very cheap so there is not much we’d get back in return. Both of them were also just free agents so if other teams were interested they could have pursued them. Now that does not preclude either of them being thrown into a bigger deal in the future, but they themselves are not bait.
"The evolution has been good, and I am much more tranquil now in the face of what comes next,"--Manu Ginobili
by VWolf on Jul 24, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theo vs. Bonner
I don’t see how Ratliff signing may mean anything regarding Bonner. They are completely different players, one is not a substitution for another. I think adding Rat just means more flexibility for different matchups. We had a deficit of true centers, now it is addressed. Good move. And I’d like to have Bonner as an option as well (just not as a starting center). If you play Orlando, you’d like to have Theo on the court, if you play Warriors, you’d be better off with Bonner. I haven’t seen much of our younger bigs, but I’ve seen enough of Bonner to want him on the team to explore certain matchups and to spread the floor. Trade Bonner – and you have less options. Doesn’t make much sense, if you ask me. You don’t want to have a one-dimensional team. Stop hating already.
by Kondor on Jul 24, 2009 2:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kondor, welcome, and good points. One of the hallmarks of our previous championship teams was the flexibility of our roster — playing small/playing big, playing slow/playing fast.
Rat (nice one there too, see nicks can be simple, guys) give us an added dimension of being able to have an extra defensive presence to play next to Duncan if matchups dictate, or just someone to spell Duncan if we’re not going small ball with the 2nd unit.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 25, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to thank everybody for talking me down off the ledge about Ian. I really hope he’s still around for a while. Between Ian, Blair and Splitter we have a trio of promising young bigs for the future – I don’t want the FO to sacrifice that, and I hope they see it that way too.
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!
by Tim C. on Jul 24, 2009 8:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, Splitter. I hope the potential for a Tiago mancrush isn’t unrealized forever.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
by jollyrogerwilco on Jul 25, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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