ATS Summer League Microscope - Jordan Hill - New York Knicks
Jordan Hill was the 8th pick in this year's draft by the New York Knicks.
I kept my eye on him for the Knicks' second Summer League game on Wednesday against the Detroit Pistons. The Knicks got destroyed 96-73 with Hill putting up 14 points and 5 rebounds in 28 minutes.
David Thorpe tweeted this during the game, "I think Jordan Hill is going to be a beast for this team. I'm not sure I'd like in, let's say, Portland. But I see him flying around MSG."
Kevin Arnovitz said, "Jordan Hill is at his strongest when he's facing up to the basket, but too often he rushes himself when he has the ball in the post. Several times on Wednesday, he lost track of where he was on the block, then flung an off-balanced shot up from close range. Hill also seemed a little passive as a post defender, even against the likes of Trent Plaisted. Hill stayed in close proximity on defense to his assigned man, but rarely tried to knock his guy off his spot. In general, the closer Hill was to the basket, the less comfortable he was."
As for me, I was thoroughly unimpressed. I don't know that I like any other high draft pick less.
Let me throw a little data at you
- 6' 10", 235 pounds, 21 years old
- 6' 10", 230 pounds, 22 years old
- 6' 8", 240 pounds, 21 years old
These are the numbers for the three rookie forwards playing in this game. One was the 8th pick in the draft, the other two were the 35th and 39th picks in the draft. The two second-rounders were FAR better in this game. You can read my opinions of Jerebko and Summers. In this game, the dynamic duo from Detroit ran circles around the higher pick Hill.
The Upside of the Hill
Jordan Hill did show a couple good things. He has a decent mid-range shot and he isn't afraid to use it. I would say that 8 or 9 of his 14 attempts were mid-range shots. Almost all of his makes were from outside as well. I'd guess he shot about 5 for 8 from the perimeter. He also showed the ability to create space for his outside shot by putting the ball on the floor with his left hand and stepping back into his shot
On one possession he ended up covering Austin Daye -- who has been awesome this week -- and did a good job of moving his feet and staying with him.
He showed an ability to be the pick man in the pick and roll. He set a couple decent picks and rolled nicely once to the rim. That, combined with his mid-range game, has some promise.
That's about it for the good.
The Downside of the Hill
I thought his basketball awareness was unfathomly awful. Let me explain what I mean be this. On several occasions, he didn't seem to know where the basketball was. Most of these were on shots on the offensive end. For instance, when one of his teammates would take a shot, he would put his head down and look for an open spot on the floor to get to for a rebound. He shot would hit the rim and the other team would have the ball, THEN Hill would look up and see that the action was starting the other way. This caused him to trail on several plays. For me, this shows a lack of natural instincts for the game and is not something you can really learn.
His overall game in the blocks was poor. Offensively, he was only comfortable stepping back and shooting jumpers. He looked very poor trying to go to the rim with his dribble. The only time he was successful was when he was matched up with Trent Plaisted. He could do nothing with Jerebko. Defensively, he didn't show much either. He never helped on drives. He fell for a Jerebko pump fake and Jonas blew past him and got the foul. When a shot went up he never found a man to box out, he just drifted into the paint. Like most rookies, he doesn't work early enough in the possession and gets fouls reaching to make up.
Probably the most disturbing thing I saw was a lack of athleticism. He doesn't seem explosive and he struck me as very stiff. Some guys, when you watch them, just move well and show great body control. I didn't get any of that from Hill. At no time did he blow by his guy, even while being covered by Plaisted. After watching him -- admittedly for only one game, I don't know what people saw in him to make him a #8 pick. It's early and all, but he looks like he's a LONG way from being ready.
Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni know a hell of a lot more about basketball than I do, so I would defer to them. However, I did have a scout ask me what I thought of Hill. When I told him, he said he didn't think I was that off in my assessment.
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Maybe they should get Isiah as their scout…at least he picked the right guys in the draft.
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
so true, Isiah picked some good one up for us knicks fans (maybe just me on this site)… but I think he’s better at finding good fish in shallow waters, than prized gold medal medal fish in deep waters. Think Lee, Robinson, Chandler, when compared to Frye…. Frye?
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 17, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Frye was considered a great pick on his first season. He had a really good campaign. After that….. he just devolved.
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
I think he was always considered a good pick during his rookie season…but a little bit during that, it started to show that he was just not worth it. A big man that is not physical is just not worth it, no matter how well he can shoot.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 18, 2009 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
nowitzki, as soft as he might be still gets rebounds. I don’t know how he ends up with double digit rebounds sometimes because he’s not a exactly a physical guy, but Frye is a pillow.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 18, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions
As a semi-knicks fan, your post makes me a little less thrilled about having this guy. I thought he would at least be like a quarter to half of what Stoudemire is. Dang, i appreciate your evaluation though. Thanks a lot ATS. Whenever you decide that you’ve had enough with the hotel bills and internet extras, please just let us know someway that we can contribute. People have already stated this before, but I’m just reminding you. Thanks.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
Wow, a first time insulter. Sweet.
Anybody that knows me, knows I’d rather skewer a testicle than eat at Chili’s.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 17, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
what makes you think he’d say yes to you? haha Texas Tech, I see why you’re angry.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 17, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Btw, just messing with you.
Seriously, thanks.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 17, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
damn it. ATS you had me defending you (or trying to the best of my ability) without knowing you weren’t being serious about him insulting you. I am really going to pick up my game on text sarcasm that doesn’t involve smiley’s cuz I don’t like them. It’ll be difficult no doubt, but the end result will always be funny to me.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 17, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Just for a reference point, “skewering a testicle” should ALWAYS be a cue for sarcasm.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 17, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
dammit, I don’t know what skewer means so I ignored it… but you are right. Doing ANYTHING to a testicle should be considered a cue for sarcasm. My fault. I’ll remember.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 17, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Make it your friend.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 17, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
some visual help

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 17, 2009 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny, I had sushi for dinner tonight.
Relax, there’s nothing but love here.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 17, 2009 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn’t mean to be insulting either (well actually I did), I merely thought that you were trying to be insulting (from ATS’s reply right after). I’m sorry SA Raider, I didn’t think you were a regular because I never saw you around, but I am still new here ( I don’t even get your sushi joke). So I’ll be more conscious from now on. My sincerest apologies SAR.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 17, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I really do encourage our readers to be conscious, although Cap tries not to be.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 17, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
You know I love my ladies.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 18, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Okay, I will try to be more conscious ATS, once again, only my sincerest apologies. No excuses.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 17, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Where is JRW with our literal video?
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 18, 2009 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
This exchange is cracking me up. Makes up for the fact that I’m still conscious. tlo, make use of that Merriam-Webster website.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
I wish I knew what the hell you were talking about so I can do it Cap ( remember I’m still drunk so it’s so much harder). Anyways I would love to help you, but please help me help you. Blah blah blah I know it’s boring.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 18, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
tlo, no worries, man. Just see ATS’ reply below concerning “conscious” vs. “conscientious”.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
hahaha, you talk like a guy kinda Cap. I like it in a girl. You were already okay in book, so I can’t approve you anymore other than say, SHE SHOULD BE IN MY BOOK!!! (I don’t write books I’m sorry).
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 18, 2009 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 18, 2009 12:03 AM CDT reply actions
oops, reply fail.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 18, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Ouchies Mr. ATS. Once JRW wakes up, he’ll see that I transferred that sickness onto you and he’ll probably kill me! Dammit!
Please JRW, understand that ATS has been in the gym for at least 8 hours for the past several days, it wasn’t I that made him sick. Please, I learned what that Peachtree shit is and I don’t wanna go. I really don’t wanna go!
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 18, 2009 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
First Pinter, and now Ionesco -- what next
So, do you see LTO as a Bérenger figure?
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
what’s that? please explain
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 18, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
It’s a good thing. You’re the naive and pure-hearted hero (Bérenger) and we’re the conformist masses, changing ourselves simply to keep up with the winds of fashion (rhinos).
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
tlo, with both jrw and Lauri, google and Wikipedia are your friends. BTW, jrw, I picked up GEB from the library. You failed to mention it’s almost 800 pages long! ;)
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
Cap, I love the library, but there are some books that just can’t be enjoyed as they should be, unless they’re owned. For this reason, I love getting used books at Amazon.com — you’re buying from real people, but the shipping is standardized unlike ebay. That’s where I bought GEB.
If the intro and the first few chapters of GEB don’t knock your socks off, then you can shelve it without outlaying any cash. But, believe me, if you enjoy the beginning, you’ll want to own it because it’s not just a very long book, but it’s not a quick read either. It’s dense — you’ll find yourself not only re-reading sections, but also revisiting chapters as you progress through the book and new light is shone on parts that you previously thought you completely understood.
You don’t page-turn through GEB, you savor it — like fine dark chocolate.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
Thanks for the tip. This is my usual MO though – I check out a book from the library, and then if I like it, I’ll purchase it. I just don’t like to automatically buy books, only those I know I’ll reread.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
I tried looking up Ionesco, and Berenger, but not both together, since I thought Berenger was also a writer. Then I gave up and decided to ask. I shall do better googling and wikying though.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 21, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
why do I strike you as a naive and pure-hearted?
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 21, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
You don’t particularly. But when Lauri brought up Ionesco in the middle of a thread where everybody was giving you advise about words, then Bérenger would be the only choice for you – you could read the play if you’re interested enough. You did see The Holy Mountain twice in a single weekend. So it’s not like you’re lacking for guts or willingness to experiment.
Perhaps I’d have been better off stealing Wikipedia’s description of him — “a flustered everyman figure who is often criticized throughout the play for his drinking and tardiness.” Anyway, the play is called Rhinocerous. And if you can stomach THM, then you can definitely handle some theatre of the absurd.
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
I hate books, it’s so much effort. I’ll put it in my book list though ::goes on an hour long search for his book list:: Okay it’s on my things to do later.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 22, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Since it’s a play, you might be able to attend a performance of it, or find one that’s been taped so that you can simply sit in the comfort of your comfy chair and view it with no effort on your part. ; )
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
right! Play! I’m such a dimwit. I didn’t even think about finding a way to skip the reading process (much like I did during HS). I’ll try to find it. thanks.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Jul 22, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Jordan Hill
You really must not know basketball at all !!! Your assessment of Jordan was not even close to being correct.He is one of the most atheletic big men you will ever see and will be the best player in this draft class. He will be destroying people at the four spot as he is so quick and an uncanny repeat jumper. This kid is going to surprise alot of people…but then you will probably just say he improved greatly so as not to appear incompetent.By the way the summer league games are a bad gage of how a rookie will perforn in the NBA. Jarryd Bayless was summer leaugue player of the year last summer…nuff said
by basketball professor on Jul 22, 2009 11:18 AM CDT reply actions
OK, who let Jordan Hill create an SBN profile with the handle of basketball professor?
5 in 10
I want my Manu o;—-)
I just assumed basketball professor forgot to type in ALL CAPS.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
We’re all very aware that Summer League games aren’t the best "gage" of a player’s skill, but it’s really too early(and a bit of a reach) to say that Hill is going to be the best player of this draft class. In fact, he’s not very likely to be the best player taken at his position. He has tremendous upside, but so did the Kandi Man.
I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!

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