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Cashmere


Cashmere.  It's like wearing a cloud.  Such were the words of a long lost friend.  Cashmere is fantastic stuff.  It's pillowy.  It's light.  It's caressing.  It's amiable.  It's magnificently soft.  I think I saw it this year in a black and white uniform.

Star-divide

The Downy Softness of Cashmere

I haven't watched a single second of the NBA playoffs since the Spurs were eliminated.  I have, however, followed some of the games online and I have stayed abreast of the goings ons.  Fines, flagrants given, flagrants rescinded, technicals rescinded, etc.  During the Nuggets-Mavs series it finally dawned on me.  The 2008-2009 Spurs were a decidedly soft team.  I went to two of the games against the Mavs and we got out-physicalled by them.  The Mavs beat us on our defensive glass because they pushed us around. How could we have handled the Nuggets?  Or even the Lakers?

I had seen all the evidence during the season, but I was not drawing the correct conclusion.  I thought we needed another big man to help Tim defend.  I thought we needed another rebounder.  I thought we needed Manu healthy.  All these were true, but they weren't our malady.  We were soft.  I'm not going to go "there" and say we were mentally soft.  Physically soft?  Definitely.  Mentally soft?  Sort of, kind of.  I think we were focused and teams couldn't take us out of our game, but I also think we learned to quit.

Let's NOT Get Physical

Yeah, we were a poor (poor for the Spurs, average for the league) rebounding team this year.  We were very good on the defensive glass, but piss-poor on the offensive glass.  We didn't get to the line much.  We didn't send the other team to the line much.  We didn't block shots.  We didn't get technicals.  We didn't get flagrant fouls.  We didn't turn the ball over much.  We didn't create turnovers.  All in all, we just played a soft pleasant game all year.  We didn't make people uncomfortable.  We didn't attack them.  Everything the Spurs did all year was passive.  We didn't keep teams from reversing the ball.  We didn't pressure passes.  We didn't pressure catches.  If a team wanted to swing the ball side to side, we let them.

You can win games playing like that.  You do it by out-executing the other team and hitting clutch shots late.  That's what the Spurs did this season.  We hit big shots.  We played close games.  We barely beat bad teams.  We occassionally beat good teams, but we never whipped their ass.  We couldn't make the good teams uncomfortable.

Let's NOT Compete

Yeah, I said I think we learned to quit.  We gave up on a lot of games this year very early.  Bounces weren't going our way.  Calls weren't going our way.  Those are the breaks.  Rest Tim and Tony and regroup for the next one. From a coaching perspective, I always thought this made a lot of sense.  Why tire out your players to try to win a game you don't have a good chance of winning if it is going to possibly cost you the next game?   Especially during a long 82 game season.  Well, the reason is because your players learn to give up.  They learn to NOT fight through the calls.  To NOT be physically tough and mentally pissed and enforce their will on the game.  They just kick back with the coach and say, "Not our game.  Oh well.  It's a long season."

But that game turns into the next game.  And the next game.  Then their aren't that many games left in the season and you are still where you started.  The Spurs team talks all the time about the regular season being for getting better and working on "our game".   Yeah, I know they have to do that from an x's and o's perspective.  But you also have to do it from a competing perspective.  You get better as a player and as a team by pushing each other all the time.  Not by coasting.  By rising to challenges.  Not by walking away from them.

I hope our 2009-2010 Spurs aren't as soft.

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I was thinking throughout the season, we need a Kevin Willis type player. Someone who doesn’t play much but can come in and lay some wood on people, and not necessarily in a bad/flagrant way, but just to get the team going. Many times this year the Spurs were flat to start the game or third quarters especially and we were not good enough to recover from that.

I think Manu has that type of energy, he’ll get in there and get dirty fighting for a rebound, getting a steal or taking a charge and energizing the team. Unfortunately he was not healthy and this is where someone like a Rodman/Willis/Insert hustle type player would have made a difference. Some of our young guys probably could have been that one role player, but I think it’s been well documented how that went…

by xman130 on Jun 3, 2009 10:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Like, Led Zeppelin Cashmere? That one rocked.

Anyway, you make valid points. Did you just stop short of saying that this has a lot to do with Popovich? Maybe his tactics are getting old, or maybe he’s lost his edge a bit, or players are getting tired of Pop’s old ways that are being left behind by the evolution of the game.

by silverandblack_davis on Jun 3, 2009 10:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I would say its Pop’s new ways. Old ways we would have been a tough smart team.

by LionZion on Jun 3, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that would be kashmir – like the place in india where all the best weed is grown? no wonder pakistan and india are both fighting over it….but i digress…….one further digression: we should do an LZ game thread like the pink floyd game we did……

by bones on Jun 4, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I second that motion with the Hammer of the Gods.

"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA

by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 4, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bleh

Unfortunately I think you’re right. I think xman130 nailed it. However I think we need more than one guy who’s willing to come in and play while things are going badly and try to turn the game around. Manu is clearly one of those guys, but he can’t do it alone. Clearly we could use some more hustle guys to help toughen us up.

by Big50 on Jun 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent post ATS

I think you captured the essence of the season barring the injuries part.

In fact Pop seems to have lost his aggressiveness from the early Laker rivalry days. I wish next season we dun play to just survive.

by LionZion on Jun 3, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post, as usual. I like your analysis and agree. Just because the Spurs got a little older, does not mean they have to stop competing.

Hi, my name is Ed, and I despise the Lakers.

by Ed (dfjmed) on Jun 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That was a great post ATS. I had these thoughts during the Mavs series when i was telling a buddy of mine that the Spurs were getting taken apart by the mentally and physically softest playoff team in the league. So does that now make the Spurs the softest playoff team in the league? logic dictates yes, and i agree. That was a down-right pathetic series and i agree with the contention that we need to bring in some energy and hustle guys, but i think what ATS was getting at is more in line with what is needed, which is a holistic turnaround on our competing level. Minus a 2 month strectch from about a week into december through half of the rodeo road trip the Spurs did not compete the rest of the season. Something dramatic has to change in the focus of all our guys, the ones we bring in and the ones that stay. Playing this way next season may not even get us into the playoffs as teams in the west are only going to get better.

by staves27 on Jun 3, 2009 11:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If you agree that 2009’s postseason performance makes “the Spurs the softest playoff team in the league” — then let’s at least acknowledge that it’s a Spurs team without Manu.

Not simply that Manu’s not included in such a characterization, but also that, a team with Manu would have reacted differently, and therefore they would have been different.

As in, not soft.

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 3, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree with you that it would have been different with Manu. I have no doubts with the way the Mavs were guarding the rim if we had a healthy manu the series would have been 4-1 spurs, with only 1 or 2 close games. so yes that is a concession i will make. here are the culprits i believe to have brought about this softness:

1. Findog – playing against his former team, was awesome in game one offensively, but completely disappeared the rest of the series. He made it seem we were playing 5 on 4 out there.

2. Mason – i will give him a bit of a reprieve because he was new but he disappeared after the first game as well. when his shot is not falling he is useless because he can’t defend worth anything. also not his fault Pop played him out of position half the time.

3. Bonner – the dude is just soft, i feel bad for the guy he plays his heart out but he’s just a softy – and he was our starting “center”. see ATS post a while back for a complete analysis on his contributions to the team

4. Gooden – this was really Pops fault for not playing him more but the guy also is just not a tough smart player so should we have expected anything different

5. Timmy’s knees – he just wasn’t the same guy

the rest of the guys actually contributed something i thought, but the above were just awful.

by staves27 on Jun 3, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Snakebit

In the short amount of time he was with us (and especially in the playoffs) Gooden seemed to lead the league in quality shots that just barely missed, followed immediately by a great extra effort to get his own rebound that he just couldn’t pull in.

It just didn’t seem possible for someone to not connect on as many high-quality FG attempts as he’d take while also trying as hard as he did to pull in the board only to be come away with no points and no rebounds.

It was weird to watch. I hope he figures that out, or never wears a Spurs jersey again.

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 4, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

   Kind of an excellent/great/awesome post ATS. It hadn’t crossed my mind but perhaps getting older can make a team softer. It certainly seems that way for our Spurs.
   I very much like what you have to say about the psychology of quitting and I couldn’t agree more. If you train yourself to go through hell and back then pushing through an uncomfortable spot is made a little easier. As you said, the opposite is also true; players learn to give up whether it be conscious or not.
   I really think adding a motherf*cker at the 5 spot along with a healthy Manu will completely change the teams psyche and the way we play. These are the reasons I do not support getting a guy like Okur. Too soft.

...formerly known as speedostuffer

by Manuwar on Jun 3, 2009 1:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

A team getting older will get softer only if they were previously successful in my opinion. If a team has expectations of winning it all and they keep failing, as they get older they might have more of a fire to play and win. Can the success of the Spurs be affecting their drive to excel?

"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG

by LasEspuelas on Jun 3, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post but I disagree with everyone putting this on Pop. He can’t go out there and hustle for the players and I completely agree with our cruise mentality in the regular season. Look at the injuries we suffered with benching players early. The thing is that our bench needs to have the fire like in the Cleveland home game where Pops, Malik and George played one hell of an exciting come back that I don’t think I’ll ever forget. The problem is Mason has ice running through his veins and is just seems consistently in control of himself and I can’t imagine him going off. Finley has lost some fire since getting a ring. Tim, Tony, and Manu are all fierce competitors so we can count on them. Bruce Bowen is relentless on D and will be trying to kick passes when we are down 20. George Hill seems to get it too which is why he played the minutes he did in our elimination game. Ime doesn’t have the skills to back any fire he may or may not have. I won’t even talk about Bonner. Kurt Thomas is a good defender but his fouls are usually weak shit and he never is aggressive physically on offense. Oberto is more or less the same. Gooden just seemed to get sloppy the more he got fired up.

We need real competitive role players like Horry, Willis, Capt. Jack, etc…Youth also seems to help.

I wrote an extensive reply about our losses on some other thread and we didn’t forfeit many games, especially at the end of the season. We only had 4 double digit losses after the rodeo road trip. 2 to Portland (super young athletic team, Manu never played) and 2 to Cleveland (Manu and Duncan sat our home game and they were lights out in Cleveland). Remember what happened to Cleveland in the Finals after they swept us in the regular season in ‘06-’07? The Spurs play such a calculated game that stupid physical fouls would hurt us. I do agree that we need more offensive aggression from players without rings and not named Hill but I think that can only be done with roster changes not coaching or philosophy changes.

by BlaseE on Jun 3, 2009 2:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Good points.

by Big50 on Jun 3, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Youth help because(generally speaking) it has something to prove. Younger players seem to want it more than the guys who have been up the mountain many times before, and they seem to play with a lot of fire when they sense that they are on a contending team. I’m not saying this is true in all cases, or that the older guys don’t care (see: Ginobili, Emanuel) – but some of them may feel like they have nothing to prove, which is where the younger guys come in. Like I’ve said previously, I’m hoping the Spurs really use the farm system to replensih next year’s roster. A healthy Ian probably wouldn’t hurt, either.

Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.

by Tim C. on Jun 3, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

“DUncan for three… HE PUTS IT IN!!!!”
there you have, cheer up :)

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Jun 3, 2009 6:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hm. Good post, ATS, but I think you’re being way too negative. We were soft, yes, but I disagree with the part about the team “learning to quit”. This is a team that’s used to winning, so how can careful handling of old players by a clever coach suddenly induce a personality crisis?

Sometimes you lose simply because you’re not as talented as the other team, and the matchups are not favorable. It happens.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Jun 3, 2009 9:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Harping on and on about the same thing

… and sometimes you lose because your 2nd best player to injury, right before the playoffs.

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We could’ve done a bit better than losing in 5 games.

My tapeworm tells me what to do.

by Hipuks on Jun 4, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have I mentioned that I want my Manu?

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 4, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tony got hurt? I don’t remember that.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 4, 2009 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

zinngggg!

by Lauri on Jun 4, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, he’s talking about Timmy hurting his knees…

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

by tomasito on Jun 4, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good point. I forgot about Tim’s knees.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 4, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IT WAS FABRICIO’S HEART HE IS THE SECOND BEST PLAYER IN NBA BEHIND MANU, AND WHEN BOTH HELATHY THEY WILL RULE THE LEAGUE WITH THE ARGENTINE CHAMPIONSHIP ONCE MORE PUNY AMERICANS CANNOT STAND IN THEIR WAY

Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.

by Tim C. on Jun 4, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This will never get old/

by CapHill on Jun 4, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, I even made myself laugh. At work. And laughter at work never happens.

Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.

by Tim C. on Jun 4, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

AND ALSO: SCOLA SCOLA SCOLA SCOLA

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Jun 4, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This post reminds me of something.

Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.

by Tim C. on Jun 4, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

is this all there is?

badgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadger
MushroomMushroom
(4x)
SnakeSnake—Oh,it’s snake
(repeat from beginning)

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 6, 2009 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if we had kept Scola, their triumvirate of power could have split the earth in twain, i guess…I’m only a puny American though

by BlaseE on Jun 5, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The triumvirate would have split the earth in thirds, so that each could rule over their own, not necessarily even, portion.

But twain is an AWESOME word. I can forgive you for not using the more accurate “thirds.”

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 6, 2009 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

see i meant that the earth would literally be ripped apart from their power….not divided up

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My team might get infected with a case of Bourousis, but the Dr. says the symptoms are dunking, rebounding, and blocking with the side effect of spreading the floor.

by BlaseE on Jun 6, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s a great image too.

Duly noted.

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 6, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can’t help but read every post that is in all caps. I’m a sucker

...formerly known as speedostuffer

by Manuwar on Jun 6, 2009 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those Argentines sure do know how to capitalize.

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 6, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

stampler must not be reading this.

by bones on Jun 4, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep – i’m definitely on the get off pop’s back bus. the spurs were definitely not as tough as they typically are. soft seems a bit harsh, but i will agree with the overall sentiment.

i think a lot of it has to do with bruce’s limited role and the new guys not being the thumper type. agreed on the need for someone like kevin willis. i was hoping that KT would turn into this guy, but he’s not quite it.

spurs definitely need a new irritant. one guy like this and the league will be crying about us again real quick.

by bones on Jun 4, 2009 2:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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