Why no big trade?

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 13, 2009 1:11 PM CDT Comment 41 comments

In a recent discussion over here dfjmed made a good observation that got me thinking about the difficulties of the Spurs making a trade. To me it’s the same reason behind why the organization mostly looks to foreign pickups, waiver wire finds, and the draft to add to the roster – and it’s tied in with the way we avoid bad contracts and sign high character guys who care more about getting championships than getting paid.

So, here it is. If our players are being paid at below market level for their services, then any time we trade, we’d have to include an additional player, just to make the salaries work. If we don’t have any contracts that are killing us, then we can’t dump someone on an unsuspecting GM or force them to take our trash if they want our treasure. So we’ll never get equal value, because the market is overpaying for what they have. So, a guy who may be as good as Tony or Manu would be making more. Then, as soon as we start looking at guys who make the same amount as the Sickness and Frenchie, then the first thing we think is, "I don’t want any of those guys."

I’ll admit I’m not a Trade Machine genius, but it occurs to me that, in addition to the kind of players we have (e.g. "Yeah, he’s a spur.") the reason it’s so difficult for us to make a deal with other teams is because we’ve made such good deals in signing our guys.

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Great point. I just pray Manu values ending his career in SA much more than getting what he deserves.

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My team might get infected with a case of Bourousis, but the Dr. says the symptoms are dunking, rebounding, and blocking with the side effect of spreading the floor.

by BlaseE on Jun 13, 2009 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

True, but not every Spurs gets less than market value. Think Bonner.

Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.

by Tim C. on Jun 13, 2009 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I KNEW that someone’d bring him up, but I couldn’t find a quick way to add him to the post.

How about we agree that he’s the exception that proves the rule?

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 13, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely – overall, that’s definitely the trend.

Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.

by Tim C. on Jun 13, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Scalabrine gets paid more than Bonner. So in that sense, I’d say Bonner was a bargain.

Brian Cardinal: 6+ mill

Mark Madsen: 2.8

I’m feeling better. You?

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 13, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not really. The Spurs aren’t supposed to do shit like that. Good perspective, though.

Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.

by Tim C. on Jun 13, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heres your trade

From the Spurs-Tony Parker From the Blazers-Travis Outlaw,Martell Webster&Steve Blake

by We-B-Dunkin on Jun 13, 2009 6:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey, I’ve got a trade for you: Charles Barkley for Tim Perry, Andrew Lang, and Jeff Hornacek…

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

by tomasito on Jun 13, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

tomasito to the rescue

That a perfect analogy. PERFECT.

Sorry, WBD, but your trade’s just been vetoed by ’sito.

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 13, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking From the Blazers – Roy, From the Spurs – Mason, Hill, Bonner

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 14, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

O.K. stand pat, Good luck in the lottery!

by We-B-Dunkin on Jun 14, 2009 1:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks!

We appreciate your good wishes.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

by tomasito on Jun 14, 2009 6:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

George Hill + Bruce Bowen for Oden. Then we’ll talk.

Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.

by Tim C. on Jun 14, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not gonna happen. Popovich likes vets, but not 45 year old centers.

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Jun 14, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no Hill trades for me

Hill has way too much potential to give up on him after just one year. Let alone trade him for yet another injury prone veteran.

Randy Blythe, Singer of Lamb of God- "Words can be broken, so can bones....." Omerta by Lamb of God

by KA1Z3R on Jun 14, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK, Ian + Bowen.

Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.

by Tim C. on Jun 14, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's better

Randy Blythe, Singer of Lamb of God- "Words can be broken, so can bones....." Omerta by Lamb of God

by KA1Z3R on Jun 14, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We already have our man of glass. Ian.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on Jun 14, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least their man of glass has actually played in consecutive NBA games.

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 14, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And their man of glass has an excuse for his body breaking down. I mean how many other 48 year olds are playing at Odens level?

...formerly known as speedostuffer

by Manuwar on Jun 14, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love this line of reasoning.

At the beginning of the season — there were two.

Now Mutumbo’s retired and Oden’s all by himself.

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 15, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

awesome

...formerly known as speedostuffer

by Manuwar on Jun 15, 2009 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I often talk to this old timer at the gym about basketball. There’s nothing I bring up to him that he hasn’t heard about already, it amazes me. I was talking to him about the Bourussis guy lamenting because as I’ve said “If he’s so good then why didn’t anyone draft his rights a while ago!…” He had a theory that put my mind at ease. Even though we as Spurs fans don’t always give Pop his due credit the rest of the league still considers him a genius. So, if Pop is snagging up this Euro player it is probably assumed around the league that they missed out on yet another foriegn gem and thus kicking themselves. My friends theory is that they will sign and trade to some sucker team.

...formerly known as speedostuffer

by Manuwar on Jun 14, 2009 4:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That’s cool info, Manuwar. What’s your old timer’s view on how well Manu will recover?

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 14, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s skeptical like everyone else I think..

...formerly known as speedostuffer

by Manuwar on Jun 14, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the going theory is that Bourousis was giving the impression to NBA teams that he didn’t care about playing in the NBA

I think the financial situation in the Euroleague and specifically for Olympiakos combined with the Spurs FO and players being persuasive has convinced him. I think he is a steal for our FO, not some complicated ruse on another team.

by BlaseE on Jun 14, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That actually makes prefect sense. I hope this is why so many teams passed

...formerly known as speedostuffer

by Manuwar on Jun 14, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry to have said rude comment

Outlaw& Webster are good young talent though. Andrew Lang & Tim perry give me a break.I think you get Two starters & a Quality backup here, now I know T Parker is your #1 guy now that Duncan is ageing but Parker is your biggest chip. Ya’ll are gonna have to rebuild eventually. I hope it goes well cause the Spurs are actually one of my Fave. Good luck to the Spurs & all there Fans

by We-B-Dunkin on Jun 15, 2009 8:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You offered Outlaw who comes off the bench. Webster who was hurt all year. And Blake who is a third rate point guard. Just because you and the Blazers value them doesn’t make them good. They are talented which is not the same as good. Plus, they are unproven guys who haven’t done shit.

At the time, Lang & Perry were “young up and comers” and “good young talent”. Hornacek was even better than Blake. The point is, you guys in Portland think a little too much of your “talent”. Show me somebody on that team, besides Roy, that can step up and make plays in a big game and THEN I’ll trade for them.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 15, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldnt trade Parker one for one for Roy.

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Jun 15, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hornacek was the best part of that trade

If you want to keep Parker over Roy,WOW, good luck on your rebuilding. Maybe you can trade TP for Kobe or Labron,D Wade or Howard. Oh well like I said I like the Spurs but if….oh never mind

by We-B-Dunkin on Jun 16, 2009 2:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hornacek was coming off an All-Star appearance, IIRC.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

by tomasito on Jun 16, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

seriously, parker is that good. Who is the best point guard after Chris Paul? Billups? Deron? Id go with parker. He has stepped his game to another level, and he keeps improving.

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Jun 16, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve got to agree. TP’s proved he’s got value waaaay beyond what he’s being paid, and he hasn’t even entered his prime — assuming that PG’s maturity dictates their prime is in their late 20’s early 30’s.

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 16, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I might, but I don’t think so. It depends whether I thought Roy could play the point. It’s not at all clear that Roy is a better player at the 2 than Tony is at the 1, plus the Spurs already have an All-Star at the 2 in Manu, plus two capable guys in Hill and Mason. They need help at the 3 and either the 4 or 5 (since Timmy can play either depending on who else they find). If this Greek guy is the real deal, that takes care of the 5 spot, plus they’d have adequate depth with some combo of Mahinmi/Bonner/KT/Gist.

Even though we have a need at 3, I sure as hell wouldn’t give up Tony Parker for Outlaw and Webster at that spot. Guys like that are all over the place and can be had on the cheap (Trevor Ariza before his playoff run, Stephen Jackson back in the day, Julian Wright, etc. etc.). I’m sure the Spurs can find someone to play now that it is apparent that Bruce and Findog aren’t the answer anymore.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

by tomasito on Jun 16, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and if they are the answer, then the questions need changing

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 16, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Recced to ARGENTINA.

You’ve really been bringing the heat lately, JRW. I grow more and more endeared to your wit.
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/48be4afc03/stewie-s-music-video

"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA

by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 17, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice job on the preemptive use of the schmaltzy love tune

“I’m not really following the story arc.”
“Shut up!!!”

I want my Manu!

by jollyrogerwilco on Jun 17, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

HolycrapyouandIhavetotalk.

Two words: “Shiner,” “Smokehouse.”

"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA

by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 17, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like the Spurs

Outlaw & Webster are young up and comers so I think the trade is better then Lang & Perry. I do think the Spurs are going to have to consider Rebuilding soon though & T P is your best chip. The best of luck to you I hope you can turn it around without the crap we had to go through the last 6 years! Good luck ya’ll

by We-B-Dunkin on Jun 15, 2009 8:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs