Some more HOF talk
by Big50 on May 29, 2009 4:00 PM CDT
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PrintWe've pretty much beat to death the Horry to the Hall question. I want to know what players that are Spurs now or have been in the last 10 years should be in the HOF outside of Mr. Robinson?
via j.bdbphotos.com
In my opinion you've got a lock or two and a couple of guys that might make it. Here's my list:
Tim Duncan - F - Lock, the best PF to ever play.
Tony Parker - G - Should get in and will if he keeps up his level of play.
Manu Ginobli - G - Should also get in due to a very nice NBA career and a stellar international career. Also might be the best international player ever.
Robert Horry - F - Probably not getting in, just not enough solid numbers
Sean Elliot - F - Good player, an all-star once or twice, but not good enough for the HOF
Bruce Bowen - F - Good defender is not getting you into the HOF
Avery Johnson - G - Not enough numbers despite solid leadership
George Hill - G - Has the potential to be really good, but probably not an HOF'er on the same team as Parker.
Of course Pop will get in, but I really don't see any other players getting in or even being considered. It puts in to prospective what Duncan has accomplished with no other sure "locks" for the HOF since 2003.
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man, look at those guns!
im gonna assume we’re not even gonna consider possible HOF’ers who came to the team past their useful shelf life (malone, wilkens, purdue, barry etc.)
But what about Rodman? Or does only two seasons with us count him out of discussion?
who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder? there are some who call me ... tim.
Awesome. If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on. -SiMA
I don't know if he's a shoe in...
but I think Manu should get in. He’s the only player to have won an NBA championship, a Euroleague title and an Olympic gold medal. He was the best player on the first team to beat an American team with NBA players on the roster and the best player on the team that put an end to the U.S. 16 year dominance of the Olympics.
He was MVP of the Euroleague finals and the Olympics and his ressume includes 3 NBA titles, a Eurolegue tittle, a World Cup silver medal and a gold and a Bronze Olympic medal.
Also, since the game is becoming global it would probably help cement that by inducting someone from South America.
If all that doesn’t get you to the HoF…
agree
Manu, while nice, has too short of a career to get in, with only somewhat good numbers. Not superstar level, start to finish, all season.
I also think the HoF will take not being a starter into consideration. While we all know right NOW that it’s for a strategic purpose, these things tend to get lost over time.
Finally…. Manu, the greatest international player of all time? I know you guys LOVE Manu (just look at the sigs around here! rotflmao! best EVER!!!!), let’s get realistic. Hakeem FREAKING Olajuwon… Dikembe Mutombo, Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash…. and those are only the couple I can think of off the top of my head this late at night.
In international play (where Manu is the clear first option) you can see that he is at least on the same level that Dirk and Nash. From a production point in the NBA, Manu has no chance over those guys you mentioned. From a talent standpoiint? Yes, he is that good. Kobe Bryant good, but without a 1000X times better attitude and a crappy white body that’s falling apart. To me the only difference between manu and Kobe in basketball is DNA.
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
umm
if Manu is not the same as Kobe in terms of “basketball DNA” then he’s not “Kobe Bryant good”
Manu is a great competitor, I love his work ethic… but he’s no Kobe. I’m sorry, that’s just the plain truth.
He is good, and possibly is one of the Top 10 greatest international players of all time.
Just to be clear
My homerism doesn’t go as far as to thinking Manu is as good as Kobe, but how many players in the history of the game have been as good as Kobe? not a lot…
As regards your previous comment that Manu has not had a long enough career, you are just wrong. Manu started playing professional basketball when he was 18. Maybe he hasn’t played in the NBA for that long, but he has had a very succesful career in Italy and the Euroleague.
There are players in the HoF that have never set foot in an NBA court and their induction came as a result of their excellent careers in European leagues and international games.
I believe that thinking of the HoF as the NBA hall of fame instead of the basketball hall of fame clouds judgements a little bit.
My point is, Manu can handle the ball, defend, attack the rim and shoot 3 pointers like Kobe. The only difference with Kobe is atlheticism and endurance. Kobe can play 40 mins per game for a whole season withouth and injury and almost never getting tired. Manu cant. The difference? DNA, genetics
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
My following comments are dipped in 40% homerism but it could very well be reality if there was a way to know these things for sure.
1. I would take a in-prime Manu over a in-prime Kobe any day. Kobe has had the longevity in NBA career. But I remember early in the decade games where Manu seriously went Super Manu over stretches. But I bow to Kobe for channeling his mamba more consistently. BUT, if recently at the MIT basketball statistics conference, Rockets GM made a very funny comment talking about current players(including Kobe). Goes something like this “The San Antonio Spurs’ Manu Ginóbili is a statistical freak: he has no imbalance whatsoever in his game — there is no one way to play him that is better than another. He is equally efficient both off the dribble and off the pass, going left and right and from any spot on the floor.” Being a homer, I will live with that description. Though for all practical purposes, Kobe trounces numbers when needed.
2. I would take a in-prime Duncan over Kobe any day. Thats a no brainer. If Kobe can one up what Duncan did during 2001-2003, and lead a bunch of largely no-names to a ring, cool! But we all know Kobe will likely murder one of the no-names on his team than lead them anywhere.
by LionZion on Jun 1, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I would take a in-prime Manu over a in-prime Kobe any day.
Wait…. what?
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 2, 2009 3:43 AM CDT up reply actions
if Virgin Islands counts as international……
just saying….
I’ll take a prime Manu over a prime Nash or Dirk every day of the week. The only thing Dirk has on him is size. Nash is great but Manu’s basketball achievements are much more impressive to me. Nash had insane offensive stats on one of the most insane offensively paced teams ever.
You forgot to mention Nash’s insane defensive skills. ::snicker::
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
He’s such a one-diminsional player, really. ::snicker::
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 2, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
bill bradley
His first NBA title also made him the first player ever to win an Olympic gold medal, a European Champions Cup, and an NBA championship ring. This feat has only been matched by Manu Ginóbili (in Ginóbili’s case, the relevant European title is the current Euroleague).
dave mcnulla
spurs fan
I read a thread somewhere that proved Horry should get in. It must be true. :)
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Only if there’s a “greatest clutch shooter” section of the HOF. There’s not, last I checked. ’Cuz you know, I go there all the time living in Phoenix. [snicker]
Free James Gist!
Pounding the Rock - where ochlocracy happens. Eat your heart out, California.
compare Horry
to similar style players who used to be in the league, or currently are. Some I can think of are Rasheed Wallace and Rashard Lewis. Neither I can see in the HoF, but both have FAR superior statistical careers (so far, for Lewis) than Horry. The only departments that Horry owns them in is championships and clutch shots. And neither of those two is a good enough reason alone to become a Hall of Famer.
and don't forget he's better at throwing towels at danny ainge
that qualifies him for HOF in my book.
i couldn’t actually find that image. internet is too young, i guess.
dave mcnulla
spurs fan
I think its pretty simple isnt it?
Robinson, Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and Popovich…like you said, Parker is trending that way and the other four should be locks
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I AM GETTING VERY TIRED OF THE MANU HOF DEBATE THREADS.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST PEOPLE. DO SOME RESEARCH ABOUT THE BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME BEFORE MAKING RETARDED STATEMENTS LIKE MANU ISN’T GETTING IN.
HE WAS MVP OF THE OLYMPICS!!! HE GOT A GOLD MEDAL. HE’S BEEN 1ST TEAM TWICE IN THE OLYMPICS.
Throw in his Italy championships, his Euroleague championships, his MVP awards there, his 3 NBA Championships and Manu is as big of a lock for the HOF as Robinson was and Duncan will be.
Unless they radically chance the qualification process and make it just an NBA HOF between now and say 2016, he’s in.
Give a man a chicken and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to chicken and he'll call you crazy and question your command of the English language.
by Aaronstampler on Jun 1, 2009 12:58 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You’re, like, an honorary Argentine, Michael.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Thank you
I been saying on my you tube account that he can make it to the Hall of fame. BOttom line it the Hall Of Fame, Not the NBA Hall Of Fame. There are some people in the HOF who never even played in the nba and are in.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
Amen
I agree 100%…regardless of his NBA career (which has been stellar by the way) he should get in just because of his international achievements.
Do you know who Drazen Dalipagic is? Me neither but he’s in the HoF. He never set foot on an NBA court and only won an Olympic gold medal in 1980 (when the U.S. didn’t participate).
Of course he has done wonderfull things for Yugoslavian and European basketaball in general, but his overall achievements can’t comapare to Manu’s.
So I ‘d be shocked if, for whatever reason, Manu doesn’t get in.
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