Losses Don't Get Any More Frustrating Than This
Celtics 80, Spurs 77 SA: 45-23 1st in Southwest, 2nd in Western Conference
Okay, so my girlfriend says she's a Celtics fan. She doesn't know any of the players, and I'm not even sure if she's aware that they won the title last year, but she says she's a Celtics fan. She said she got into them when a boyfriend from a previous relationship made her watch the games with him a couple of years ago and she was really impressed with their intelligence and style of play. The '05-06 Celtics were 33-49 and the tanking '06-07 Celtics were 24-58, but whatever. If she found art and beauty in their suckitude, who am I to argue with her insane, crazy, nonsensical subjective opinion? She's a woman, so it should go without saying that her relationship with reality and logic is like Shaq's relationship with the English language and free throws: Rarely ever executed and even then only in "practice" when no one is watching.
[ATS: Edited]
Epilogue: I hate you, Tony Parker. I hate you I hate you I hate you.
Ignoring my personal, selfish dessert needs, the actual game against the Celtics took on many of the traits of our recent games against the Rockets, Thunder and T-Wolves. It was an ugly, at times unwatchable brickfest and honestly watching it at the bar next to some NCAA tournament game, it was often dfficult to figure out who were the pros and who were the amateurs. And this is coming from someone, as the longtime readers are probably aware, who utterly DESPISES college basketball and this insipid "March Madness" nonsense.
Actually wait, this is a tradition for Stampler this time of year so I gotta do it.
NCAA rant/
::clears throat::
All the players stink, all the games stink, nobody can shoot, there's a billion turnovers and like seven assists in every game and I don't accept for one microsecond the idiotic argument that people enjoy watching these games more because "it's so intense and the everyone's competing so hard."
Shenanigans shenanigans shenanigans.
Manoli and I could play one-on-one to 50 in the gym and I guarantee you that no two humans who've competed in anything in the history of the world will be more intense or have the desire to win more than we would going against one another. But would that make it enjoyable television for millions of people? What if I put a "San Diego State" jersey on and he put a "I Barely Passed High School" jersey on? Still no, right?
So why do regular people or "casual sports fans" care about the NCAA tournament?
Say it with me. It's all about the gambling.
It's. All. About. The. Gambling.
IT'S. ALL. ABOUT. THE. GAMBLING.
gamblinggamblinggamblinggamblinggamblinggamblinggambling.
And please, stop it with the "anything can happen" argument. Go pick a Final Four consisting of a five seed, a seven seed, an11 seed and a 14 seed and tell me how that works out for you in the office pool. Your boss will either fire you because he'll think you're a complete moron or you'll be promoted to "Regional Manager" because you're obviously way too much of a hard worker to know or care about sports.
The tournament is just as predictable as the NBA playoffs, and always has been. The chalk prevails. Last year the Final Four were the four one seeds.This year 14 of the 16 teams in the Sweet 16 are chalk, including all twelve squads seeded 1, 2, or 3.
OMG THIS SPORTING EVENT IS LIKE A MAGICAL FAIRYTALE!!!11!!!
Watch, I'm going to win the PtR pool and on purpose I clicked the "autopick top seeds" button, filling my entire bracket in three seconds (though I did switch the winner to Pittsburgh. I hate Rick Pitino.)
If the actual Cinderella story was like the NCAA tournament, not only would she not live "happily ever after" with the prince, she wouldn't even make it into his castle for the grand ball. She'd probably get eaten by a moat dragon or something. Or maybe the drawbridge would accidentally fall on her carriage and crush her instantly. Or the prince would fall in love with her, but he'd look like Rick Majerus.
Blarg!
/NCAA rant
There were occasional individual plays and maybe even a few stretches where one or both teams were playing legitamate good defense out there, but for the most part I thought the low score had to do with wretched offensive execution, missed open shots (4-17 on threes for the Spurs, oy vey...), and WWF-worthy officiating. The zebras were calling fouls early, but eventually the Celtics' rough play just and thuggish tactics just wore them down and they let both teams get away with murder in the second half. Post play was a complete disaster as far as the refs went, the Celtics twin fatties of Perkins and Davis were just slamming into guys with impunity, and it looked more like a Sumo competition than a basketball game in the paint.
Boston did not impress me at all. I realize they're beat up, missing some guys and that Garnett is coming off an injury, but they don't have the goods this year. Pierce has chunked up a bit and is just not consistent. Allen is the same as ever, a 20-1-1 who can't play defense. But really they're missing P.J. Brown and James Posey and haven't adequately replaced either. The Marbury signing sealed their fate.
The story for us was more of the same. The defense has picked it up, as it's wont to do this time of year. The bench provided next to nothing offensively, but they were all down right demonic in their own end, with Bowen playing probably his best game of the year against Pierce, Hill similarly frustrating Allen or Rondo, and Gooden and Thomas both rebounding well.
The problem, again, was creating offense without The Manu. Tim was looking old and gimpy, Finley and Mason were clankeriffic, and all twelve of Tony's field goals were layups. While it'd be accurate simplistic to suggest that Fin and Frenchie choked the game away at the line, a healthy heaping of blame has to also go to Pop as well for once more giving us the abomination that is Roger Mason Jr.: backup point guard. Honestly sometimes I wonder how I root for a professional basketball team that has three guys on the whole roster who can dribble the ball and one's injured, one's a rookie and the one that actually is paid to do it gets called for traveling like three times a game.
Mason's three turnovers were one less than the Celtics had as a team and while eight turnovers overall is a great game for the Spurs, it's still kinda crappy when the other team only has four. When your margin of error without Ginobili is so thin, you can't let Boston get five extra shots and shoot awfully from three and shoot even more awfully from the stripe and expect to win.
I know Tony's carried us this past month. I know he's been far and away our best player and was again versus Boston. But endings like that are precisely the reason why Pop usually likes to give the ball to Manu down the stretch. Call it hindsight, call it me being an unfair jerk to Parker, call it hypothetical reactionary blathering from an idiot, call it what you want.
But you all know the truth. No way Manu clanks four free throws with the game on the line. "Unbelievable" indeed, Frenchie.
Nice move, Shaq.
(AP Photo/Delcia Lopez)
Rockets 87, Spurs 85 2nd in Southwest, 3rd in Western Conference
Rinse, lather, repeat.
Tony had to create all of our offense. Without him (and this will sound ironic, coming from me) there was no ball movement. He had 12 assists, everyone else combined for six. Finley and Mason were again useless and Pop was so fed up with the backup point guard position (which he, more than anyone, is responsible for ruining with his atrocious handling of George Hill and countless others before him) that he played Parker 40 minutes. Right now the team has one actual "guard" and a bunch of streaky shooters who treat the ball like it's radioactive. Parker had a good floor game, but his shot selection was abysmal and because everyone else was playing hot potato with the ball he wound up with five turnovers to boot. One would think that he, more than any Spur, will be thrilled with Manu's return, if only so he can take a play or two off and catch his breath, but with Tony you never know.
Despite Pop's stubbornness to play Hill at the point and Mace's glaring inaptitude for the job, I'm not too concerned about the backup point job for the playoffs. It's gonna be Manu, as it always has been. Beno was never a point guard here. He was the guy who dribbled the ball up the floor, handed it off to Manu, and then spotted up somewhere. Same with Van Exel (unless he decided to chuck a 38-footer), same with Vaughn, same with Hill, same with Mace. When Manu's on the floor with the scrubs we run the same offense LA runs with Kobe, Miami runs with Wade and Cleveland runs with LeBron. Screen-and-roll with the swingman running the show.
Who plays with Manu is the question. Mace would be the better shooting option, while Hill would provide a better ball-handler against pressing defenses, a better interior finisher for backdoor cuts, and a better defender. I'd go with Hill, but it won't be my call. Most likely Pop will just play Tony to death.
My bigger worry is Tim. He still hasn't put together two solid halves in March. He was great in the first half, finally showing signs of being his normal self, but unquestionably awful in the second half, at both ends. He couldn't hit any shots down the stretch, couldn't even post up effectively or make any fluid moves in the paint, and his defensive rotations were quite poor and cost us dearly at the end.
I don't know why Pop is playing him the way he is. The minutes are fine, 34 is about right, but Duncan is resting for way too long. Against Boston he rested for seven consecutive minutes in the first half and nine straight in the second. Against Houston it was seven each in both halves. Of course, those are just "game minutes." In real time the rest periods are like 20-35 minutes and one has to think that with sitting for so long Duncan's knees are bound to stiffen up. Wouldn't it be a lot smarter to substitute Timmy college-style and play him shorter shifts? Shuttle him on and off the floor three or four times a half instead of just two? He'd be less likely to get tired and less likely to calcify on the bench.
Credit must go to Kurt, Bruce and of course to Fatality, for having his best game of the season in a losing cause (Houston's run that won the game late in the fourth started immediately after Pop subbed him out in favor of Mason), but again, the defensive efforts of the reserves can only do so much if you're playing with a popgun offense. Bonner was dominated by Scola (again, well done on that one, front office) and finished with just two boards in 21 minutes. Our starting swingmen combined for 9 points on ten shots. We're asking Tony to just carry a ridiculous load and he is begging to noticeably sag under the burden, particularly late.
Apparently Luis can play quite well alongside a center who can't move laterally or jump over a phone book after all. Say, did you know he's only making three million?
(AP Photo/Delcia Lopez)
Can all of these problems be corrected in time to salvage this disappointing season and pull off a miraculous playoff run? It seems less likely by the day. Duncan and Manu will have to return to full health and find their games tootsweet. A third big will have to emerge and be relied upon to be competent at both ends. Ditto a second swingman. Pop's failed point guard experiment has just about destroyed Mason. Neither he nor Finley should be on the floor if they can't get open spot up shots. Perhaps if Bowen plays neither have to be on the floor at all, or at least, not for very long. Or maybe Manu's insertion into the lineup will give us our usual three-pronged attack and the consistent open looks will be created once more for the scrubs.
Manu is the key to everything. I keep clinging to this hope because there is nothing else to cling to. The Spurs desperately need to beat somebody worthwhile one of these days and as they've proven, ad nauseam, it's not gonna happen without The Sickness.
Right now I'm just relieved to not have to think about them for the next 36 hours.
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great recap since I didn’t get to watch either game, though i am glad I didn’t because i’d be even more frustrated than I already am. Anybody get those weeks where absolutely NOTHING goes your way? That was my week.
Here’s to a happier week, Lord knows it can only get better
What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)
the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post
Oh come on - that didn't deserve an edit.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Right now we’re not in the mood for jokes, I guess.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
You’d think this would be the best time for it.
Unedited, posts like this are why I’m a regular reader of PtR. And I’m not even a big Spurs fan.
Don’t look at me… I thought humorous innuendo was within the guidelines, but ATS’s in charge.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I doubt I’m long for here. If the new administration is going to be even more conservative than the previous one, then clearly I’m not wanted.
"Like feel or follow or fuck" she said...
by Aaronstampler on Mar 23, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Let’s not say things we don’t mean. Where can I read the unedited posts? Spursdynasty?
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
no. Nowhere.
"Like feel or follow or fuck" she said...
by Aaronstampler on Mar 23, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Stick around, man. I can’t deal with more changes.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Hey, do you like the Rockets?
You can say whatever the hell you want at The Dream Shake!
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
We'd be able to work something out.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Great stuff. Depressing, because you didn’t pull any punches, but for once I completely agree with your assessment – so I can’t even call you out for being a negative freak. Yes, Tim looks off and is obviously playing through pain; yes, Tony seems to be withering down under the constant pressure; yes, Bonner and Mason have both regressed, and Mason playing point guard isn’t a playoff option – yes yes yes yes.
And yes, Manu’s the only thing I’m clinging to at the point.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
And yes, the NCAA is only interesting because of gambling.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
It is also interesting because you can root for your alma mater and against your alma mater’s rivals. If you didn’t go to college, or at least to a college with a sporting culture, it is difficult to understand.
Yes, that’s true. No such thing in Argentina.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
College teams seem to be more like the way you guys describe your pro teams. They belong to the community and they aren’t moving.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 23, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
That’s only reasonable. I still can’t believe there are no more SuperSonics.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I want to talk asap.
"Like feel or follow or fuck" she said...
by Aaronstampler on Mar 23, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Luis Scola makes me sad. I just don’t understand what the FO was thinking. The only thing I can think is that they were so sure they would sign Splitter that they felt they didn’t need Scola. Even still, why trade him to a division rival that may have been one piece away?
And then, there are the ones that got away: Ron Artest and Marcus Camby. Apparently the Spurs were thisclose to trading for Artest last year (with KT as the fallback), and again this year with Camby.
On the flip side, I could be a Phoenix fan, and aside from the obvious (that we always lose to the Spurs and haven’t won any titles), I have half a dozen “Luis Scola” type front office mistakes running around the league. After all, people forget that their front office had the draft rights to Luol Deng, Rajon Rondo, Nate Robinson, and Rudy Fernandez (among others) and basically gave them away for cash. And also, they let Joe Johnson leave in free agency to become a star (although that was probably a good decision). Imagine that team the last few years with Nash, Rondo, Barbosa, Marion, and Stoudemire, then bringing in Nate Robinson or Rudy Fernandez off the bench for instant offense.
Manu, please come back.
it’s called “14 million reasons” why they traded him away, not that it makes me feel any better or infuriates me any less. Holt is a tightwad, and trying to buy out Scola was not gonna happen. it sucks, because of course it would have been great having him as a Spur.
like everyone else has said, MANU, please come back soon.
Please explain...
I know the Scola trade let them dump Jackie Butler at the same time, which saved a couple mil. Scola’s buyout was initially very high (the season they signed Fab as the fallback), but when the Rockets signed him, I think his buyout was down to something like $1-3 million. But, here’s the key: the Spurs didn’t have to pay that number. They could have just left him playing for Tau to keep him away from rival contenders like Houston or Utah (or Cleveland—thank goodness that trade fell through).
well i was under the impression that his buyout was too steep, so a 1-3 million doesn’t seem that steep to me…i’m sure if that was the case then they would have done it in a hearbeat. maybe there’s something more to the whole thing that i’m not aware of.
and the part about letting him play for Tau is probably true, but the Spurs purest and apologist in me says that the FO was feeling guilty for keeping him over there instead of letting him into the NBA. i’m probably totally wrong, but i think they were tired of “holding him ransom” so to speak. of course the big kicker was that whoever brokered the deal made a boneheaded move by dealing with the Rockets. and i’m sure Pop had nothing to do with where he ended up, because he was pissed the minute it happened. ahh, good times right now.
I know everyone is a little upset with the Spurs FO for not signing Scola. But I’m not going to complain. I’ve watched the neighborhood team let Steve Nash leave and get nothing in return, only to then see him win back-to-back MVP awards. Then I watched as they failed to trade away D. Harris because Stackhouse opened his mouth. Thus causing them to restructure the deal, costing them 14 million MORE and sending the only player they had that could beat Tony off the dribble to NJ….
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
a big part of me actually appreciates the Spurs organization for being frugal, especially with today’s market. it makes me appreciate what they’ve been able to do with their low budget, while watching these other over-spending, big-budget teams throw money all over the place and still get nothing in return.
but there’s also the part of me that wishes we could just open up the pocket book a little more to try and secure a much-needed piece of the puzzle to make us truly dominant. oh well, life as a Spurs fan.
Perverse Lesson
Absolutely perfect on target analysis. Maybe what Pop and the FO should take away from this game is this: bring in whoever it is that coaches the Argentine big men. It’s remarkable how Scola and Oberto (and actually Manu too, but he’s not a big) have an uncanny talent for finding the open spot under the basket when the other team isn’t looking. That has to be more than coincidence. Don’t know if other Argentine players do the same as I haven’t seen them much, but these two guys are better than almost anyone I’ve seen at that. Oh and lastly … Manu, we can’t take this much longer. Listen to the song they play during game breaks … Volver, Volver …. pronto.
I’m not sure it is Argentine big men. I think it is big men who have been successful in European basketball. Did you see the Splitter highlights that got posted the other day? Found open spots, found the open man, etc. Oh wait, he’s Argentine too. Never mind.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 23, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
lol nicely played ATS
What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)
the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post
by Hamer_SpursFan on Mar 23, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you and share your frustrations. Could it be that Pop was out coached on the last rocket’s play? Trapping Brooks with a lame double team with that spacing surely was a bad idea unless the plan was to give Yao an open shot . Parker’s inability to play defense contributed to this because Brooks or any pg has been scoring at will againts him but that double team seems lame to me. Parker’s missing crucial free throws is not new, just look at how he did in last year’s conference finals.
Totally Timmy’s fault, for leaving the post to guard Yao near the 3 point line.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
it think it’s a dual fault. with Kurt doubling at the sideline leaving Yao open, it creates too much opportunity for a lapse in judgment. yes, Tim should have stayed on Scola and ceded the long jumper, but it’s a split-second reaction to a wide open shooter. had we just stayed manned up, then it eliminates that sort of scenario.
I agree with Stampler’s assessment on a rational level. I know that our days are dwindling down (“to a precious few . . .”).
But my stupid heart insists that Pop must have a master plan, and that Manu will return, and that somehow we will find a way to gut this season out.
I remarked sadly to my housemate the other day that with the tendonosis, the window was closing on Timmy’s career — and hence on the Spurs as a “dynasty” team. He replied, “Yeah, don’t you remember me saying that years ago?” I started to morosely agree, and then I stopped.
“Wait, what? What do you mean "years” ago? What has happened since then? Oh, just a couple of stupid division titles, a few lame championships, that’s all. You know what? I take it back. This window isn’t shut yet, and as long as there’s even a crack, Timmy will find a way. I TAKE IT BACK!"
And then he rolled his eyes and left the room.
But I still felt better.
P.S. I read the original unedited post, and Stampler — I love you, man.
P.P.S. I think there’s more to enjoy about college basketball than the gambling, and I could write a bigass post about it that no one would read, but y’all are just too invested in your hating, so carry on. It amuses me.
P.P.S. Long live Pounding the Rock, Matthew Powell, and Dennes Dale Boon.
Well, the days aren't dwindling that quickly ...
But we need a major roster change to reach the finals with the ease that we used to.
Tony is fine for another 3-4 years.
Timmeh is fine for another 3-4 years.
Manu can be counted on whenever he is on the court … but you can’t guarantee he will be there the whole season.
Short-term, we need another high-scoring player. Long term, we need a big who can share the defensive load with Duncan.
Sabre
"Your sig dominates threads, forcing everyone to scroll past you’re multiple posts. Seriously, look at your thread and scroll down and see how annoying that is. And forget the fact that people asked you nicely to trim it down.
It’s all about you."
- CMoney (Edited for Length)
Manu please come back. Greener pastures must be ahead. A healthy Manu in the playoffs is…well, we all know the answer to that. Deadly.
I’m not completely against the idea of buying draft picks. We see other franchises do it, and score. Youth, coachable youth that listens and buys into a system- that is, isn’t a bad thing.
"Just make up your mind at the very outset that your work is going to stand for quality... that you are going to stamp a superior quality upon everything that goes out of your hands, that whatever you do shall bear the hallmark of excellence." - Orison Swett Marden
http://myspace.com/eme0916
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=569220294&ref=profile
Not that bad...right?
Let me just say that as poorly as we’ve played the last 2 or 3 games…or possibly all of March. We have had a chance to win all or most of our games. That’s gotta mean something. I understand that Mace, Bonner, Hill, Finley and all those guys need to play better. I get it, we need Manu back. If Manu can play 10 minutes in that Houston or Boston games we win both. If we make free throws we beat LA, Boston and Houston, 3 top teams. As bad as it might seem, we’ve still got a really good defensive team and the time, the regular season and the first and possibly 2nd round of the playoffs, to improve offensively.
I’m looking at it that way. All this leaving and glass half empty crap….sheesh.
Holy heck, this'll leave your head spinning...
Hollinger’s latest article from BSPN. This division race is crazy. :
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090323
http://myspace.com/eme0916
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=569220294&ref=profile
Hey, enjoy the blog
But your observations on Pierce and Ray allen are way off (and probably just sarcastic?)
First of all, Yes that was a horrible game where neither played very good…but Im suprised you say pierce has “chunked up” because he came into the season lighter, and is significantly slimmer then he was last year when he was significantly slimmer then the year before….so thats just fyi
and as far ray allens 20-1-1-1…thats just plain off base, hes had one of his most effieceient seasons of his career, if not his most, is a very smart rebounder (something I didnt know before we became a celtic) decent passer, basically hes known as a shooter but IS an all around player..
I by no means was impressed with boston in that game, and havent been since early on in the season when they started 27-2…but theyre going through the sort of mid season funk a defending champion goes through, youd think a spurs fan would understand that when he sees it..
I agree with you on college basketball
by TheAncientRivalry on Mar 23, 2009 4:52 PM CDT reply actions
Oh and your observations on missing PJ brown…way off base…no they arent…he played a miniscule role in what the celtics did last year and was a 1 year pick-up all along
Honestly I can just tell you dont watch the celtics much or really know much of anything about them…kinda just throw the norm out there
“Pierce is chunky, Perkins is a thug, Allen cant do anything but shoot, they miss PJ brown and posey”
by TheAncientRivalry on Mar 23, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
We saw a lot of Ray Allen in Seattle, so that opinion has almost nothing to do with his Celtics career. As for Pierce, he does look a little heavy to me, and certainly isn’t playing at a superstar level as he did much of last year and in the playoffs.
I wouldn’t say they miss PJ Brown, but I would agree that the Celts miss Posey.
I’m going to have to go with Aaron on this one. Here’s Charley Rosen:
Without the home-court edge, without James Posey, without P.J. Brown,
But the Celts need to ratchet up their defense quite a bit, something that will be difficult to do without James Posey and P.J. Brown.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 26, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
So, what a great day. I had a meeting this afternoon with the powers that be of SBNation and I had a feature article on the front page I had to edit. Then I had two Fanpost titles I needed to edit. Because, you know, I really want to have that meeting with the below on the front page and the words “b3h” and “fucking” in the titles of the fanpost (iron clad across the board no-no’s at SBNation). And, you know what came up as one of the first things in our discussion, how juvenile our site could be. Out-fucking-standing.
Just so everybody is on the same page, here is what Michael wrote and I removed because I thought it was inappropriate to be adorning the front page of the blog:
Anyway, Thursday night my girlfriend the Celtics fan and I agreed to a wager. If the Spurs won she would [buy me an ice cream cone]. You see, while Amanda is quite spunky and energetic, always willing to try all sorts of different activities, she has this hangup about [buying ice cream cones]. Apparently she had some sort of bad experience from a previous relationship involving [buying ice cream cones] so it’s just not her thing. I’ve never considered myself a guy who’s obsessed with girls [buying him ice cream cones] before, but you know how human nature works for juvenile males, whatever they can’t have, that’s what they want the most. And by golly, I don’t care if it makes me a selfish person, I don’t care if she hates the idea, I just really want her to [buy me an ice cream cone], at least once in a while. Amanda agreed to this, but told me if the Celtics won that I would have to [wash her dishes]. Now, I don’t think I’ve ever [washed anyone’s dishes] before, and I don’t think I have either the physique or the necessary coordination to pull it off in an aesthetically pleasing way, but a bet’s a bet and I told her that I would indeed [wash her dishes] if the Celtics won, as long as it wasn’t in public. She smiled and said yes.
I’ll count for you. That is 8 references to oral sex.
Here is the email I got from Michael when he realized I edited his post:
Why was I edited? How could that post be offensive to anyone? I didn’t swear. I didn’t use any sexual phrases. You’re being overly reactionary. This is bs.
This isn’t about me and my authoritative, draconian, or fascist ways. This is about Michael and Michael only. He knows it. And it is his decision. As it has always been, Michael can choose to write here as long as he pleases and follows the rules that he knows. There is no more playing dumb or claiming ignorance.
So, this is Michael’s call. If he wants to write about the Spurs and not about sex. I think this would be a great place for him. If not, then it won’t.
To Bring Back Novak, I would say, yes, this did deserve to be edited. Sexual content is not allowed on this blog, much less the front page of it. We don’t even allow pictures of cheerleaders. Just saying. I even got razzed good-heartedly by a commenter for linking to your blog that had a picture of a cheerleader.
To Jeffrey, it is not my intent, nor do I believe it was the intent of Matthew, to provide this type of unedited content.
To Lauri, yes, the lines can be gray on what is sexual content and your bringing up TWSS is spot on. TWSS is the sexualizing of the previous commenter’s comments. As Matthew pointed out in his “welcome to PtR” post it is childish but it is our tradition. At this point, it has become a joke about what a lame joke it is. The upside of it is that it is buried in our mammoth game threads. Not on the front page. It is, for the most part, spontaneous and not a well-thought out and constructed article. I’m not thinking the above post is anywhere near a gray line.
To CMoney, your argument/discussion of sigs would probably carry more authority if you didn’t keep referring to your man-parts while making your point.
I stray from the topic of the Spurs as much, if not way more, than anybody on this site. I will continue to do so. I expect people to do that here, including KA1Z3R and his music threads. Totally not a Spurs thing. I totally don’t care.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 23, 2009 5:10 PM CDT reply actions
Thanks for posting Stampler’s edited excerpt. I see the humor and I also see why you took it off the front page. This feels like we’re now on a slippery slope and I wish PTR would have never joined SBNation. I guess I just miss the old days.
In defense of my posts, they were merely tongue-in-cheek humor. Poor taste? Yes. I’ll try and do better next time.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
I thought Stampler’s original post was funny. But rules are rules and the interpretation of them even harder and enforcement worse. Both of you guys got pretty much thankless tasks and each has to do his part.
So thanks to both and /shrug…lets just make it to the postseason. Maybe we will get to put that punk Chris Paul in his place and that will make the summer for me lol. I am not sure why I dun like him that much….its a feeling similar to Stackhouse or Terry.
hmmph...ok
i see what you’re saying. i guess it crossed the line a little bit, but the fact that he covered it up was why i was confused.
but as for the cheerleader comment:
everybody loves a cheerleader every once in a while. Heck, even Ball Don’t Lie linked to a cheerleader post ;-)
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who once stated, “They who can give up essential cheerleaders to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Words to reflect on, indeed.
When you look like I do it's hard to get a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese- Zach Galifianakis
Coming up with a new way to refer to oral sex is not covering it up. It’s just being creative. Anybody who read this knew what Michael meant. Putting it in bold, in square brackets, and repeating it is not covering it up. I can string together a ton of words that mean the same thing. None of them on their own are curse words. I believe everybody knows that how you string the words together is what gives them meaning. I also believe the meaning was clear.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 23, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait, that was the original post? I thought the original post said the words, and then you, in explaining why the post was edited, put the euphemisms in brackets as a joke.
When you look like I do it's hard to get a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese- Zach Galifianakis
Nope
that was the original (btw im not arguing, just stating fact)
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
BBN is correct. That is the exact post.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 23, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of cheerleaders
NBA.com is having their annual Dancer competition. (I’d provide a link but I’m pretty sure I’d be breaking one of the rules) Our girls beat the Mavs in round one and up next is the Thunder.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
You need to check out LatinD’s site. That’s not news to him. He’s all over it.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 24, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Good job, ATS.
"Upon the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of countless millions, who, on the threshold of victory sat down to wait, and in waiting they died." --- Anonymous
http://roleplaya.blogspot.com
by silverandblack_davis on Mar 23, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
And props to Stampler too. I was unable to watch both games but I totally felt your agony and frustration.
"Upon the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of countless millions, who, on the threshold of victory sat down to wait, and in waiting they died." --- Anonymous
http://roleplaya.blogspot.com
by silverandblack_davis on Mar 23, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, this will be my only response to this matter and then I’m done discussing it.
1. I think it’s human nature to blame one’s faults, or even perceived faults, on others. We have become so accustomed to being bombarded by sexual imagery, both subtle and overt, that it’s always at the forefront of our thoughts now, even if we don’t realize it. It’s the “That’s What She Said-ification” of the language. We can turn literally any phrase into a sexual metaphor or a double entendre. In fact, I even own a T-shirt that reads, “I’d like to double her entendre.” What does that even mean? Absolutely nothing. It just sounds lewd. That’s the joke.
Frankly, we can make anything sound sexual. “Oh, Tim got his shit packed in there by Perkins.” That’s a pretty obvious sodomy reference. “Tony’s really good at penetrating,” or “Man, Tony is really good at taking it to the hole.” More sexual imagery. Sean Elliott routinely says that Tim has so-and-so “in the torture chamber.” Isn’t that S&M imagery? In the NFL you always hear announcers say an offense “is going to shove it right down their throats.” Sounds fun.
Where do we draw the line?
What if I told you to give me a four-letter descriptive term for a woman that ends with -unt? You’d call me dirty and offensive. But I was just thinking of “aunt.” So maybe the problem is with you, not me.
I can tell that Wayne’s got a dirty mind because he counts eight references to oral sex when there was only five. Maybe “buying an ice cream cone” was a bit too obvious, because ice cream cones have this oral association, but it’s not like I wrote, “Lick my ice cream cone” or anything like that. The second part of it, where I wrote “wash her dishes,” how anyone gets oral sex out of that is beyond me. I’m positive it wasn’t a reference to that since I’m the main character in the story. I thought where I wrote
“Now, I don’t think I’ve ever [washed anyone’s dishes] before, and I don’t think I have either the physique or the necessary coordination to pull it off in an aesthetically pleasing way..”
that it’d be pretty clear to anyone that I’m not talking about oral sex. What, I’m 31 and I’ve never done that to a gal? Are you serious? And it takes a great physique to do it or there’s an aesthetically pleasing way to? Come on dude. You’re just typecasting me here. You’re basically saying if I do [this with any group of words] it’s a sexual reference.
Most of the time it’s not even the author’s intent to write something that people take as sexual, it’s just a poor choice of words.
The column is factual. There was a bet involved with me and the girlfriend, so it’s not like I made up a story for a reaction. But the reason I wrote it, specifically for this post, is I wanted to see how Wayne would react to it on his first day on the job. I wanted to see how lenient he’d be or how strict. I wanted to see if I’d get a phone call or an e-mail before, or even after. (I didn’t.)
2. I’m growing increasingly (ooh a hard-on pun) concerned that SBNation, a supposed “blog” is more restrictive in its content than actual respected journalistic publications. On his weekly column Monday, Sports Illustrated’s Peter King made a reference to Teri Hatcher’s breasts in that one Seinfeld episode. (“They’re real and they’re spectacular.”) And he’s supposedly the most respected football writer in the country.
On ESPN the Magazine they did a cover story on Candace Parker and the author spent the first two paragraphs describing how big and wonderful her breasts are now that she’s pregnant and in her third trimester.
On ESPN.com, Bill Simmons, their most popular writer and probably the most famous sports blogger in the country, has made a thousand sexually explicit references, including, numerous times, a line from the Harvey Keitel character in “Pulp Fiction” which he changes oh-so-subtly to “Let’s not suck each other’s [popsicles] just yet.”
SBNation wants to be respected like these major publications, but I think it’s got a warped view of what SI.com and ESPN.com actually are. Does anyone in charge over there actually read their competition? I understand (well, not really, but I play along) that SBNation doesn’t want to be like Kissing Suzy Kolber or Deadspin, but I’m talking about credible on-line media here. These sites and their writers have evolved with the times. It’s not like they’re writing in a 50’s style homage to The New York Times (which like all newspapers is going out of business, by the way). Their writers openly make sex jokes and write about who they consider “hot” or whatever. It’s become accepted practice.
Where does SBNation get off trying to be even more uptight than ESPN, when they’re not even paying me? What is my incentive to write or provide content for them? I’m only doing it for fun (mostly) anyway, so why can’t I write in a fun way? It makes no sense. This Tyler person, whoever the guy in charge is, he’s certainly never called me or e-mailed me about his grand vision and where I fit into it. They just want me to go away quietly, I guess. They’ll find another boring writer. It’s just the Spurs anyway. Who cares about the fucking Spurs, right?
I’m not saying I want the site to be wall-to-wall pictures of naked women, fuck this and bitch that and piss and shit and all that stuff. It’s still 99% about basketball and I’ve always written that way. But this seems like a slippery slope into hell. Every week there are more rules and eventually (and Powell told me this) SBNation hopes to get so big that they’ll have full media access into every locker room. Center court seats and interviews and all that jazz. You know what that means? No criticizing the players or coaches. At least, not in any interesting or fun way. You know what that means? Paying people to essentially be newspaper sportswriters, but at a far less salary. It’s a setup.
Matthew always told me that this site has way more people than I’ll ever know who read my stuff and that 98% of them don’t ever comment. He told me I’m not a Texan and don’t understand how conservative everyone is here. He told me I never will know how many I offend. To this I say: Then they should leave. They have the San Antonio Express News. They have Spurs.com.
PtR shouldn’t be for everybody. It should be for those who like what’s it’s always been, not what some faceless corporate entity wants it to be. A lot of us already have corporate jobs and corporate lives. Why spend your free time on a corporate website? The whole thing just makes me sad.
"Like feel or follow or fuck" she said...
by Aaronstampler on Mar 24, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And 1
Well said. I hate to say it but I can see part of PTR breaking away to form a new blog, free of these “rules”. The clock is ticking…
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
Where does SBNation get off trying to be even more uptight than ESPN, when they’re not even paying me? What is my incentive to write or provide content for them? I’m only doing it for fun (mostly) anyway, so why can’t I write in a fun way?
Well, not touching this one, but I’d like to point out that just about everything you write is fun – not just the bits with sexual innuendo. Reading your posts is a pleasure, regardless of the topic.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I’m not hiding behind Tyler or SBNation or Matthew’s guidelines. SBNation has two rules. No curse words in titles of posts and no racial, religious, sexual orientation etc insensitivity. The rest are mine. At the top of that list is sexual content. This isn’t new and it isn’t new to you. You only had 5 oral sex references not 8. Wow. If I had known how to count maybe I wouldn’t have edited your post. So you tested me. Yay! Now what?
The rest of your defense of the sexual content is lame. And, well, juvenile.
To this I say: Then they should leave. They have the San Antonio Express News. They have Spurs.com. PtR shouldn’t be for everybody. It should be for those who like what’s it’s always been, not what some faceless corporate entity wants it to be. A lot of us already have corporate jobs and corporate lives. Why spend your free time on a corporate website? The whole thing just makes me sad.
This isn’t your decision to make. It is the decision of the person who makes the guidelines of the blog, and right now that is me, to determine type of blog this is and who it is for. Right now, they are mine. But they aren’t new.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 24, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, the thing is that we got shortchanged. This was one sort of website first and the we got all the rules. The whole tone of humor and what was acceptable and not was set up early on by Matt and Stampler. This is why PtR has the kind of members that it does, they were attracted to that.
It’s not fair to us to now change the rules and say, oh, well, it’s you guys fault for being juvenile.
Where was the problem before? I don’t see where the huge problem was that we had to set up all the rules. In fact, we’ve never had as many problems since the rules were introduced, because now people have to walk on egg shells, and no one knows what’s acceptable and what isn’t.
The sexual content one is beyond vague, it’s get enforced seemingly whenever a mod feels like it. It gets broken about 500 times in each game thread and yet Stampler put it in a post and he gets edited.
You say you get to determine what type of blog this is going to be. Well, could you write a post about it? Maybe then we can all know if we want to be part of this or not, instead of getting more and more rules until this blog becomes as insipid as an FCC approved show.
When you look like I do it's hard to get a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese- Zach Galifianakis
Precisely, how did the rules change and what was it that you were attracted to that is no longer allowed? Are you that attracted to the word fuck in the headlines? Are you that enamored with somebody else’s sex jokes?
What would any post I could write about the type of this blog accomplish? The guidelines have been published and they are what they are. Guidelines. Hipuks, there are no hard and fast rules in life. What is acceptable in the game threads is different than what is acceptable on the front page. Michael knows this. That’s why he wrote that he was testing me. That’s why he wrote that he only had 5 references to oral sex and not 8. He knew what he was doing. He just wanted to see what I would do.
Is it too much to ask that we have civil discourse that doesn’t involve a) bashing on a group of people and b) talking about wankers, junk, and jobs? Is it really that hard to discern what is acceptable?
There were only about 87 digs at me in the game thread tonight. Do you think that’s fun for me? I can take it, don’t get me wrong, and from most people I deserve it.
Furthermore, how many people post on this site. 40? 50? Do you know we have 1400 visitors a day (you can all see the stats by clicking on the graph at the bottom of the page)? There are a lot of other people out there who read the site. It isn’t just the site of the commenters. There are different types of people who this site belongs to.
And you know what, none of us pay. There is a cost to us having this software that hosts this site. The game thread don’t update themselves on spit and warm beer. You know how much fun a game thread is on a normal blog? Not much. When what you get is free, you don’t necessarily get to be that picky. And there isn’t much money in it for me. With all the money I collect on this site in a year I could pay one month’s rent if I lived in a shitty apartment in Austin. The dollars per hour on this gig sucks. It especially sucks for Michael.
So, I’ll tell you this: You decide if you want to be a part of this. It is what it is. It’s free. It has some rules. They’ll change. That’s life man.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 25, 2009 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Precisely, how did the rules change and what was it that you were attracted to that is no longer allowed? Are you that attracted to the word fuck in the headlines? Are you that enamored with somebody else’s sex jokes?
Well, we could comment on a woman’s hotness before. We could say bitch. In fact, our bitch game was a tradition here at PtR, just like TWSS is now, and TWSS is about ten times more sexist depending on the context is used. We could post pics of cheerleaders before. Stampler could write his recaps like he wanted before. No one had to watch anything they ever said. There wasn’t individual banning of words that for some arbitrary reason are more offensive than other words. Also, there weren’t about 200 comments discussing guidelines, that had to be the best part about the old PtR.
I don’t really give a shit on headlines containing bad words, if that’s what the prudes at SBNation want, fine. But now come the whole, no bad word in front page posts. What’s next, tightening the rules on game threads, that for some insane reason, are way looser than the rules on other things are.
And don’t give the whole, " a lot more people read this blog than the ones who comment". If you wanna go that route, then lets’ bad words, let’s ban offensive jokes, let’s ban double entendre, let’s ban mentions of the FSM because it might offend a religious person, let’s ban jokes about the Suns because it might offend Suns fans.
There’s always someone you are going to offend, if you start making rules for every single thing that a person might not like, you won’t end up with many words left.
I don’t get why the rules are this untouchable thing that can never be changed. When did this shit start? What, the pricks at SBNation came to Matt one day and said, you better clean your site up? Because other blogs allow other stuff, like cheerleader pics for example.
You know what my problem is, once this crap starts, it never stops. It never goes back to being less rules, to being less strict, it’s always more and more and more. What’s the point of having a nice clean PtR if in the process you kill PtR itself.
When you look like I do it's hard to get a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese- Zach Galifianakis
Maybe it started because the person that ran the blog, that has his real name on the blog, didn’t want to be associated with the things that were being written on the blog. Maybe because people could say “bitch” and abused it. Maybe because somebody wrote a post about “the pussy game” is why. Have you ever thought of that?
The point of the “a lot more people read this blog than the ones who comment” isn’t about not offending them so much as it is about “this site isn’t only for you Hipuks”.
I’ll ask again, is it too much to ask that we have civil discourse that doesn’t involve a) bashing on a group of people and b) talking about wankers, junk, and jobs? Is it really that hard to discern what is acceptable? I don’t seem to recall anybody ever thinking that the whole point of the blog was to allow you a place to exercise your desire to say whatever you want. Maybe the rules were created precisely because they were needed. Because people abused their freedom and took things too far. Does that sound like anybody you know?
“What’s the point of having a nice clean PtR if in the process you kill PtR itself?” Maybe, Hipuks, PtR isn’t just about what you want it to be. There are other people. The point of PtR, as far as I know, wasn’t that it was a the last bastion of completely free speech. If this is too oppressive for you then go start your own blog and make it what you want it to be. It is easy to get started.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 25, 2009 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Is it really that hard to discern what is acceptable?
Let me see, sexism isn’t allowed, unless you’re saying TWSS because that’s a tradition, or you’re talking about how hot a certain male player is, or how ugly another male player is.
Pictures of cheerleaders aren’t allowed, unless it’s a picture of a male cheerleader, then it is allowed. Linking to pictures of cheerleaders isn’t allowed, except for the one instance when it is allowed.
Comments about sex are not allowed, unless it’s in the game thread or in a way that’s not too out there. TWSS is once again allowed because it’s a tradition, and the other 80% of PtR comments that have to do with sex are allowed because…I don’t know, they are. We can’t comment on a girl’s hotness, but if it’s a guy, it’s allowed. We can’t describe the things we would do with a certain female, but stating that one wants to have a player’s baby, which unless one believes in immaculate conception implies sex, it’s allowed. Making jokes about sex is not allowed, except when it is allowed.
Words that are intolerant or prejudiced towards a group (sex, sexual preference / identity, race or religion) are not allowed, unless we’re making fun of crackers in which case it is allowed, and talking about the FSM, a symbol that many people consider mocking of established religion is allowed. You’re also allowed to make fun of certain cities for how ugly/retarded/backwards their citizens are, but this probably only applies to cities of basketball teams we’re playing against.
Saying “bitch” is never allowed, saying “female dog” which implies the exact same thing, is allowed. Saying Let’s roll bitches! is not allowed, but saying Let’s roll motherfuckers/mofos! Is allowed, even though the word motherfucker implies having sex with one’s mother, which is a comment about sex, not allowed.
The word “rape” is never allowed. The comment about what a player could face if he went to jail, implying rape, is allowed. If the player were to be a female, it would probably not be allowed.
Personal attacks directed towards other members, along with baiting of members, are strongly discouraged. Except when Matt told me to fuck myself and I told him he was a dick.
We curse here at PtR. You will see words such as “fuck” and “shit” fairly often. I do not find the level of cursing egregious or offensive, but if you do, you might be happier some place else. Except you can’t write euphemisms about oral sex, which I guess means you can’t also write the actual words. The word fuck is allowed, even though it’s slang for “copulating”, and thus a word having to do with sex, which is not allowed.
Cursing is not allowed in the title of FanPosts of FanShots. This rule was before Matt created the Fanpost for things that are fucking awesome.
Most of these rules don’t apply to the game threads, except when they do.
When you look like I do it's hard to get a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese- Zach Galifianakis
Well, I guess the answer for you the, would be yes.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 25, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Wasn’t going to touch this one, but Hipuks, I’d like to point out one thing you’re overlooking: that all happened when Matthew was the mod.
You all know I didn’t agree with some of his decisions (banning the word “rape” is ridiculous – and lazy, because usage and intent should be taken into account). But I accepted them, because they were his to make, and this was his blog.
Now ATS is the mod, and you’re all crucifying him for Matthew‘s calls. So far ATS has only done three things: edited the title of two fanposts to comply with Yahoo’s demands, and took out the paragraph in Michael’s post that talked about sex, because it was in the main page, and even before the jump – so even the most casual lurker would read it.
You’re all talking about the danger of escalation, but there’s no proof of this. Why don’t we wait and see what happens in Wayne’s blog before we burn him in effigy? I like Wayne, and he’s always been level-headed. He has to mod this place now, and that’s not a job I envy personally, because it invites ill will – but anyone who has spent more than a few months on Internet forums know they’re needed.
Just my two cents.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
And please look up “guidelines”. They are there to “guide”. Interpretation is for the mods, and we know Wayne. Just sayin’.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
The “rules” of PtR will not become more lenient once ownership is transferred. I admittedly find some comfort in this, but it was not something I requested of Wayne. In fact, it was his idea.
When you look like I do it's hard to get a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese- Zach Galifianakis
Matthew did say that. And “rules” is between quotes because they aren’t rules, they are guidelines. The reason Matthew could add rules at any given moment is because they’re not set in stone, and are open to the interpretation of the mods.
Matthew’s interpretation of the sex jokes was that TWSS was harmless. I agree, you agree, we all agree. In all his time posting here I never got the impression that Wayne would be a harsh dictator that would stomp down on anything fun and cheery and jovial that happens on this site. Why not adopt a wait-and-see philosophy before arguing endlessly about nothing? Live in Wayne’s site for a while and see how that works for you.
Most people’s problems isn’t with the broad strokes (sex in the front page, curses in the titles), it’s in the little day-to-day decisions. Or at least that’s the feeling I get.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
LatinD, banning the word “rape” is neither ridiculous nor lazy to me. I think it is expedient. I don’t want to “mod” this site. That’s not what I want to do with my time. It is not the fun part of this well paying gig.
Look Hipuks, this blog isn’t here for you to exercise your right to unfettered speech. If the guidelines are too hazy for you, then don’t get near any of the topics. If that is too oppressive for you, then don’t comment. I really don’t care if you can’t figure them out.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 25, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I was waiting for the " I don’t care how stupid the rules are, if you don’t like them, go away".
That was a good discussion though, better than the one I had with Matt, though that wasn’t much of a discussion. Some good wall-of-text back and forth.
When you look like I do it's hard to get a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese- Zach Galifianakis
I wrote the “go away” line about 3 times previously and deleted it. I liked “don’t comment” because it was friendlier.
On a side but related note, the argument style is silly. If I wanted, I could argue that anybody’s statement that the sky is blue is not clear enough. You know, it’s blue except when it’s not. Like when it’s raining. Or the sun is down. Or the stars are out. Or the sun is setting. Or it’s hazy. Blah, blah, blah. The sky is blue is a guideline.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 25, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
_______jobs. Like… sandjobs. Or elephantjobs.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I would tell you but I would be banned. Needless to say it involves a complicated system of levers and pulleys, about 150 pounds of Crisco, and gloves.
When you look like I do it's hard to get a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese- Zach Galifianakis
I’m gonna digress and I don’t care if this is edited or not, but as a Texan and someone who considers himself “conservative,” however poorly understood that word means, it’s grating when the word “conservative” is used to describe simply what you don’t like. For the record, speech codes are a tool of the education establishment Left, but because most people oppose speech codes and, at the same time, are so familiar with the ACLU, it’s assumed the speech restrictions are “conservative.”
As far as the actually controversy goes, I think 48 Minutes of Hell has proven one can be critical of coaching and personnel decisions without being crude or accused of being a corporate lackey.
by Jason Roberts on Mar 25, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
You have no idea how careful I had to be with my scrolling up to check who you were replying to.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Use the up arrow. It gets it right every time.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 25, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
That's how I did it
The Up arrow saves you a lot of time.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
What the… I’d never used that.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Hah! Finally something that LatinD didn’t know about this site :)
"Upon the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of countless millions, who, on the threshold of victory sat down to wait, and in waiting they died." --- Anonymous
http://roleplaya.blogspot.com
by silverandblack_davis on Mar 26, 2009 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions
He told me I’m not a Texan and don’t understand how conservative everyone is here. He told me I never will know how many I offend. To this I say: Then they should leave. They have the San Antonio Express News. They have Spurs.com.
Eh, just had to bring this up. I’m a Texan(originally, at least) and I think you’d be surprised by how not conservative the SA/Austin area is. Other parts of TX, maybe – but the Spurs home fan base is a lot more diverse than you might think. So, I get the feeling that even if Matthew did say that, it wasn’t exactly a well-researched statement. Generalizing isn’t a good thing.
As someone who lives elsewhere and constantly gets asked “If you’re from Texas, why don’t you have the accent”, stuff like this grates on me.
And Pop said "Let there be Mace"; and there was Mace. And Pop saw what he had done, that it was good.
You all had better have some pretty thick accents if we meet. I want to whole Texan experience.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
…Depends on what that entails, though.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I think Rikiddo conflates conservative with diverse. SA is diverse, way more so than other parts of TX, but it is a very conservative city. Austin, not so much.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 26, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
“Conflates”? Man, I learn something new in PtR everyday. (already googled the word so you don’t have to tell me)
"Upon the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of countless millions, who, on the threshold of victory sat down to wait, and in waiting they died." --- Anonymous
http://roleplaya.blogspot.com
by silverandblack_davis on Mar 26, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it anything like “flatulence”?
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
So that’s what I smell.
And when I said SA was more diverse, I mean Bexar county isn’t a “red county” or “blue county”, it’s pretty much purple. The counties around it are very very conservative, but SA itself…. not so much. They don’t buy into the BS from either side.
And Pop said "Let there be Mace"; and there was Mace. And Pop saw what he had done, that it was good.
I was totally calling BS on you, but decided I better check my facts. You are right about the purple, for the most part. Without getting into too much politics, Bexar County (52% Obama, 47% McCain) is less Blue than Dallas (57% O, 42% M) in the last election. Travis County was a ridiculous 64/34. So maybe my views are a big skewed.
I retract my conflation statement. I guess I made three mistakes. One, I relied on my impressions as a kid. Two, I haven’t lived in SA in 20 years. Three, I was comparing it to the most liberal place in Texas and not the rest.
Of course, the whole liberal/conservative definition is pretty amorphous. People make it what it means to them.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 27, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Bexar County would have been a completely different story if the Republicans had run a truly conservative candidate against Obama.
“Truly conservative” is pretty subjective.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 27, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Put it this way: McCain wasn’t a conservative candidate.
It is interesting looking at the national election results for Bexar County since 1960. Though the margin of victory tends to much greater for Republicans, the winning party has flipped back and forth (between the two major parties) over the years. But as I said, if the Republicans had run a conservative candidate in the last election, the county would have continued the trend of voting Republican during this decade.
I could say, “If the Republican Party was truly a conservative party, I might vote Republican.” My point being that “conservative” doesn’t really mean anything in that context. It’s just a general catch-all word that means something different to each person given their particular set of values.
I’m not sure how much McCain’s leanings had to do with it. The Republican party has done a pretty good job of pushing away the Hispanic population. Something like 70% nationwide voted for Obama. (I read a lot of the Markos Moulisas’ voter trend analysis).
If you look at this http://scoreboard.dailykos.com/ (click on Texas) you’ll see that Bexar County voted Democratic for Senator, and the House. I think you would have a hard time making an argument that all those candidates are not conservative. Particularly Cornyn. Of course, some people would say that the the Democrats running against them weren’t truly liberal.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Mar 27, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Those who know they are conservative know what the values are that make them conservative (and whether a given candidate shares those values).
The Senate and House votes in Bexar County are quite interesting, particularly the Cornyn vote. You’re right – it seems that the Hispanic vote was a huge factor, and maybe the most important factor.
Great writing as usual..Michael!
Matthew good luck with everything, and it was because of you and Michael that I joined this wonderful site!
I hear Manu is coming back for Friday, thank god.
Now I have to go finish my application to Anderson Business School…somebody just shoot me
by adam8065 on Mar 23, 2009 11:22 PM CDT reply actions
SiMA?
When you look like I do it's hard to get a table for one at Chuck E. Cheese- Zach Galifianakis
:: cowering in the corner in the fetal position, terrified of offending someone ::
"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA
by SgtinManusArmy on Mar 24, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Sima, are you O.K.? It’s alright to come out into the sunlight. Things are better, it’s not that scary anymore.
:: hopes no one make any sudden moves ::
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed. - CMoney

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