I know it's looking a little far ahead but... 2009 free agency

by Jaceman on Feb 24, 2009 12:58 PM CST Comment 64 comments

I think as far as this year is concerned, the Spurs' best shot at winning a title, would be that Indiana buys out Rasho Nesterovic and the Spurs sign him to a short contract. Why Rasho? He's a big man that can body up and score, he's experienced, and he's been there, specifically, he's been there with Pops, Manu, TP, and TD.

I'm personally a little relieved that the Spurs didn't make a rash move and trade away any of its depth (namely Hill and Mason), and therefore is able to make some noise in the free agency come 2009. Finley, Vaughn, and Udoka come off the books, and I think that Oberto and Bowen's expiring contracts then become easier to move, allowing the Spurs to pick up possibly a couple of solid role players and maybe a bigger name guy. If you haven't seen, here a is a l ink to a pretty comprehensive list of who will be free agents in summer of 2009. Two names that I would like to see the Spurs go after are:

Rasheed Wallace

I think this is pretty understandable, if the Spurs can convince Wallace to sign for cheaper, and not retire, then you get a scary long frontcourt of Tim Duncan and Rasheed Wallace, both of whom are proficient in the post and from midrange, and in the case of Wallace, sometimes even from downtown. Wallace also comes from the defensive-minded (until recently) Detroit Pistons and he's proven to be a solid contributor on the defensive end. This would create no end of matchup problems.

Walter Hermann

I think Hermann is one of the more underrated players in the league. Sure he's not great, but two things he does pretty well, he defends and he hits threes. While he's not exactly the youngest player out there (29 going on 30) he's a solid Bruce Bowen/Michael Finley replacement, able to fill both the 3 and the 4 slot.

I think these two guys would be solid additions to the Spurs and can make the Spurs good now. Add on a couple of maybe smaller name role players (maybe Trevor Ariza?) and you have a solid squad. I think FA 2009 is going to be a big opportunity for San Antonio to make a move.

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I agree with you a milllion times. This year the best we can hope for is Rasho (myself from 2005 would stab me to death if he found me saying this). Hopefully the pacers have lots of good bigs (Foster, Murphy) and a rookie who can really play (Hibbert) so Rasho gets bought out.
About Next season YES YES YES, Rasheed and Herrman would make us contenders from the get go. Walter Herrman is the intelligent version of Nocioni, and he is the kind of forward who can guard players like Dirk. About Sheed enough has been said, he is our savior.

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 24, 2009 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Wallace isnt at his best when he plays the 5 though

So we’d either be putting him or Duncan at a disadvantage all year long. If they can get a cheaper big man like Channing Frye to play center and hope that Mahinmi gets healthy and get something moving on the Splitter front, then they can focus more on slashers

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 24, 2009 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tim has been playing 5 all year so far, so that would give sheed the 4

by znimrod on Feb 25, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

true, but thats a lot of damage for Tim to take

not to mention he’d be a year older, but I suppose the only real center they have to deal with on a regular basis is Yao…..Id rather they go for Chandler

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, Duncan usually plays and guards 5s even when he's listed as a 4...

He’s been doing that for years.

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 25, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

man you are always right, is scary

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 25, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not entirely true

Theyve always had true centers to take the pressure off of Tim, whether it was Robinson, Nesterovic, Mohammed or even Oberto, theyve always had a center to take the pressure, not to mention fouls, off of Tim by covering Yao or Shaq etc.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Besides it's not like you can't have one of those guys coming off the bench...

Seriously, who expects a pair of 30+ year olds to be playing 48 minutes a game, especially two key players in Pops lineup?

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 25, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Im not sure what youre alluding to

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see why you can't have both Sheed and Duncan

While having a guy like Nesterovic or Mohammed coming off the bench. Pops is usually pretty good about limiting minutes for guys until crunch time.

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 25, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh

well I would imagine they’re hoping Mahinmi can fill that role; younger, more athletic and cheaper

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Herrmann is about 100 times a better fit for the Spurs than Nocioni. And I’ve been begging for ’Sheed for a while now.

You’re a smart man, Jaceman.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
http://dunkincheerleaders.blogspot.com

by LatinD on Feb 24, 2009 3:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think we’ll be able to afford Ariza, but ‘Sheed and Hermann would be awesome. Along with a healthy Ian. The beard would have to go, but if we’re upgrading, I’m not going to cry about it.

by Tim C. on Feb 24, 2009 3:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

BTW, its not so common to see a fanpost (in any blog out there) with possible scenarios that actually make sense.

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 24, 2009 4:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

+1

One man's toxic sludge is another man's popuri

by Big50 on Feb 24, 2009 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Younger...and less of a toker

I don’t know much or anything about Hermann, but I was looking at the FA list. Why not try to get Charlie Villanueva? I know he’s a restricted FA, but he’s younger and possibly cheaper than Rashweed. I wouldn’t mind getting the Toker (Wallace) at all as long as we don’t over pay for him.

Also Brandon Bass and Paul Milsap are both restricted FA’s, either one of them would look good next to TD and they’re both pretty cheap.

One man's toxic sludge is another man's popuri

by Big50 on Feb 24, 2009 5:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Unrealistic...

Bucks are trying to move Richard Jefferson specifically for the purpose of resigning Charlie Villanueva (and Ramon Sessions). I’d imagine that Jazz might let Boozer walk since Millsap has proven to be such a good option, though probably Jazz would like to retain both, it’s doubtful either will happen, and it’s pretty much a given that Boozer will walk, if he doesn’t, Jazz still resign Millsap. Bass has been the only consistent piece off the bench since Jason Terry went down, so I don’t see them parting ways anytime soon. Additionally, Charlie V doesn’t really fit the Popovich mold for a SF/PF, while he shoots threes, his defense is indifferent at best, additionally with players like Bass and Millsap, you’re bringing in undersized 4s, I personally think that while Wallace is older, his added size and skill sets complements Tim Duncan better. With Millsap and Bass you’re asking Duncan to be too much of a high post player outside of the paint, where he is best.

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 24, 2009 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jaceman,

You make good points except for one thing. We are talking about replacing Matt Bonner at the 4/5. So, Charlie V doesn’t fit the mold is true and not true. His defense being “indifferent at best” is still better than Bonbon’s. Just saying. Plus, Bass and Millsap play bigger than Bonner — and probably better away from the basket than Fab — as well whether they are undersized or not.

However, I agree, they are unrealistic. The Spurs won’t be able to get any of those restricted free agents because those teams will want to keep them.

We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 24, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

P-o-p-s.

"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA

by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 24, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Never heard of hermann, but i totally agree on Rasheed. I think after this season, Detroit is going to get rid of their old pieces and rebuilt. I seriously am going to be one of the first people to buy a Rasheed jersey, should we grab him.

I doubt we could get Ariza though, as much as i’d love to see him. He is on a (to be honest) better long-term championship contending team than we are. I’ll cross my fingers for all this magic to happen, though

What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)

the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post

by Hamer_SpursFan on Feb 24, 2009 10:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Walter Herrmann

Apologize for the spam, but I added his BEST dunk EVER to my blog.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
http://dunkincheerleaders.blogspot.com

by LatinD on Feb 25, 2009 5:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He has spur written all over his face

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 25, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s the potential for beard.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
http://dunkincheerleaders.blogspot.com

by LatinD on Feb 25, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I dont know, Wont they save up for 2010?

Like the rest of the basketball world. I agree with your assessment of Hermann, he’d be a great replacement for Bowen, or even Udoka for that matter-though I still think Ime can get the job done when allowed to play consistently.

I wouldnt jeopardize our chances at anyone in 2010 by tying up too much money/years in Wallace, who’ll be 35 next year.

Why not shoot the moon and go for Boozer, if he’s healthy and indeed opts out, he’d be worth the money and the loss of cap room for ’10, as none of them are guaranteed to leave or come to SA b/c of his talent and numbers.

Odom would be great too, even Iverson if he can be convinced to come off the bench.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 24, 2009 10:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Who?

Who would we get in 2010? We’re not gonna get Wade, LeBron, Bosh or any of those type of guys….unless TD retires and I’m not sure he’s ready to do that yet.

Iverson?! No I don’t want him at all…for free or even if he paid me personally. Odom wouldn’t be bad.

One man's toxic sludge is another man's popuri

by Big50 on Feb 25, 2009 8:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I dont think 2010 FA is dependent on Duncan

Spurs Salaries

In fact he structured his deal so that the team has more money that off season, bowen, finley, Udoka and Oberto will all be gone by then, so there will be money to use to augment Duncan, Manu, Parker and Hill

So I dont see why they wouldnt be players for some of those guys; we can hope that Bosh wants to return to Texas, I dont see Wade leaving Miami and LeBron is going to a big market

So looking at that link, you can see after the 09-10 season, only Duncan and Parker are guaranteed to come back, with team options on Hill and Mahinmi totally around 3M.

So one can reasonably assume Ginobili will be extended, so that would be a core of the Big three plus Hill and Mahinmi. I believe Splitter is with Tau until at least 2010.

So entering the 2010 offseason the Spurs only have 32M of committed money, add roughly 3M to that for the Hill/Mahinmi options up to 35M….so they should have room for at least one close to max deal.

Then look at the 2010 Free Agents and see who might fit:
Link

So the Spurs can certainly be players in that free agent market; it might not be Lebron, but it could be Bosh, could be Brad Miller or Bargnani or Stoudemire

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t see us blowing the wad on one “big” guy. If we do convince Bosh that would be awesome, but I don’t see that happening. Brad Miller hasn’t been good in 3 years. Bargnani is just like Bonner. I’m not sure anybody outside of Bosh or Stoudemire would be better than Wallace and we should be able to Wallace cheaper than those two.

One man's toxic sludge is another man's popuri

by Big50 on Feb 25, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

First off

Bargnani is better than Bonner,he’s averaging 14 pts a game, not to mention he’s 7 ft tall. Signing him and getting a healthy Ian would allow us to trade Splitter.

With so many contracts coming off the books, most of them being too old to return anyway, the Spurs will have to dip into the free agent market.

I think Bargnani would be a good buy, he’s not the bruiser we need, but he can extend the floor. There are a lot of good RFAs as well; Rudy Gay, Dirk, Scola, Tyrus Thomas could be interesting, Jefferson and Redd will be free agents, Mike Miller, Tyson Chandler….many good players.

So failing a big splash like Bosh, who would be ideal. How bout something like Chandler and Rudy Gay (provided the Grizz wouldnt match)

Point being, the Spurs will be players in that market b/c they will still have the big three to attract players and the roster will be massively over turned.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly I don't think Spurs need to make a "big splash"

Spurs has never been that kind of team. While having an Amar’e or Bosh would be nice, it probably wouldn’t happen. I personally don’t think Tyson Chandler’s a great fit. Bargnani may be better than Bonner, but in all respects he’s a glorified Bonner, who can’t guard centers, which is epitomized by Dirk. I think Wallace is a fit while Spurs develop Mahinimi and hopefully get other solid pieces. Additionally, you have to take into account the probable shrinking salary cap. If you only have Parker, Duncan, Manu, Hill, and Mahinimi on the books, that means you have 8-10 other players to sign, can the Spurs really afford to give $10 million to only one of them?

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 25, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly. That’s the reason we have to think about guys like Herrman and Sheed who can come on the cheap. Sheed is 35 so he wont be asking for much, and Walter isnt exactly a household name so his price is very low. Remember Mason? We got him super cheaply. Herrman is that kind of overlooked talented guy.

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 25, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What makes you think Wallace will come cheap?

Because of his age? Highly doubtful, this will be his last splash, so he’s not gonna go for a cut rate.

Mason is a great example, a great example of how you can fill out your roster with cheaper talent.

Todays NBA isnt center dominated anyway, so Bargnani would work fine, Yao is the only true center in the division.

And if youre worried about not being able to cover centers, then how exactly is Tyson Chandler not a good fit?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wallace will come cheap because he wants to win a ring. At least, those were the rumors. And rumors are like facts.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
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by LatinD on Feb 25, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He has a ring doesnt he?

Was he in Detroit when they won in 2004?

Remember this is Rasheed “Cut The Check” Wallace, so I wouldnt be relying on his benevolence.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, he does. I imagine he wants two.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
http://dunkincheerleaders.blogspot.com

by LatinD on Feb 25, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You dont know Sheed. He willl come here just because Popovich

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 25, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

b/c Pop loves guys who collect Techs like baseball cards

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Give him Pop and he will be fine

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 27, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Though on paper he’d make us formidable, no one can convince me that this guy’s a SPUR. He just doesn’t fit the mold that has served us so well over the last decade.

"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA

by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 27, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hard to say...

He settled down enough to win with a defensive-minded, team-oriented Detroit. I don’t think the Spurs are all THAT different from 2004 Pistons. Besides Pops has dealt with personalities before (see Dennis Rodman). He’d be the ultimate combination of Rodman and Horry.

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 27, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He settled down enough to win with a defensive-minded, team-oriented Detroit.

Although I don’t completely disagree with your point, this video was from three nights ago. Pop has never been tolerant enough to accept this kind of behavior, and even so much so that he typically doesn’t even give a guy with this type of track-record a second look. I think even without the salary concerns, Sheed would be a long-shot in Black and Silver.

"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA

by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 27, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He wouldn’t do that to Pop.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders

by LatinD on Feb 27, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Besides...

You see the Spurs dropping 8 in a row and below a .500 record next year?

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 27, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Depending on health……no.

"If I was the kind of guy who posted a signature line, this would be it from now on." -SiMA

by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 27, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually I doubt that...

Yes it will be his “last splash” but he’ll come cheaper because it’s this or retirement. I see a similar trend occurring with both Jason Kidd and Allen Iverson. I’m pretty sure Wallace knows that he’s not going to get away asking teams to offer him $13 million a year.

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 25, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right, but he'll have more suitors

So its bound to raise his price, he’s not going for a mid level exception. Dont get me wrong, I think he’d help a great deal, but he’s not a Blue Light Special

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd take him at the price Spurs were willing to throw at Maggette...

I think that was like $7 million a year. Still be a bargain. No way he’s going to get the same kind of contract someone like Hedo Turkoglu or Mehmet Okur are looking for.

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 25, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just cant imagine that maniac as a Spur

But hey, we had Rodman, so maybe its not so strange afterall

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Spurs were never considered a player for 2010...

Only “players” in 2010 were New Jersey, New York, and the teams that have the currently projected free agents, and maybe Memphis and OKC, teams who already have cap space.

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 25, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True...but

Bargnani is going to cost way more, I’m sure he’s a smoother, taller and more Italian version of Bonner, but is he worth it? I hope you’re right that we can afford to pick up some folks like that. I wouldn’t even mind having Bargnani. The real question is are those better options than having Wallace for a couple of years? I don’t know for sure, but I tend to lean to yes we could have two titles in those two years rather than waiting a year and hoping we can get somebody. Of course we’d be hoping that we can land Wallace or somebody similar.

One man's toxic sludge is another man's popuri

by Big50 on Feb 25, 2009 10:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Bargnani is like the future of the Raptors. We have no chance to get him. Besides, he is not that good.

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 25, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if hes not that good, then he isnt their future

He would be great in SA b/c he wouldnt have to be the focus or even the second option….hes the kind of big man youre gonna need to succeed in the 21st century NBA, one who can run, shoot and pass.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, Bargnani’s no future. He’s inconsistent, and wouldn’t come cheap. Then again, Bonner was horrible last season, so who knows.

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by LatinD on Feb 25, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldnt argue that Toronto has incentive to keep him

As he was a no 1 pick, but he’s not a building block or a seat filler, he’d be a great addition to the Spurs though, IMO….but I dont think the comparison b/t him and Bonner is apt, Bonner is one dimensional

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was referring to his consistency.

Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
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by LatinD on Feb 25, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ah, fair enough

Bonner has been a revelation though, I never wouldve imagined he’d be playing this well

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You didnt get it. The Raptors probably think Bargnani is their future. And he wiil be their future, a pretty bad one. They wont let him go. He has shown flashes of brilliance, enough for the dinos to keep him around hoping he is the next Dirk Nowiski. He is probably the next Memo Okur.

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 25, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean the same Okur

Who is avg 17 ppg and 8 rpg and shooting 44% from three? We’re lucky we’ve been blessed with three team first stars who accept less and defer money, otherwise, with the way this team spends, we’d be screwed.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Feb 25, 2009 7:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The ultimate reason I pick these...

Is because it seems like the most reasonable and feasible idea I can think of. Sure I’d love to shoot for the moon, sure we can try to land Boozer, but can you land him with nothing but the $4-6 million you’ll have coming off the books this season? No, probably not. However, Wallace for an MLE? That, to me, just seems a little more realistic.

Poor Man's GM @ jacemannba.blogspot.com

by Jaceman on Feb 25, 2009 11:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Even if they asked for the same salary, I still prefer Sheed. Boozer cant play alongisde Duncan. They are similar offensive players, and Boozer is one of the WORST defenders in the NBA at his position. He needs shots to be effective. Wallace doesnt (in fact he plays a lot better when he is taking less shots)

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."

by Chilai on Feb 25, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs