The Spurs possible proposal for VC?
by Ed (dfjmed) on Feb 12, 2009 11:17 PM CST
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PrintThe Mavs seem like a possibility. Read more here.
Carter, 31, has inspired significant interest throughout the league. The San Antonio Spurs are pursuing him and have discussed a proposal that would include Roger Mason, Bruce Bowen and Fabricio Oberto. While the Spurs also have interest in Detroit’s Rasheed Wallace, a Pistons source says the teams have not had any conversations.
What do you all think about the possibility of giving up Mase, Bruce and Fab for him? My gut tells me no, on Carter. I'm in favor of Rasheed, though, but for whom, I'm not sure.
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Carter deal improbable , border line impossible
The proposed deal of Mason bowen and Fabio for Carter does not even work, go ahead and punch it into the Hollinger trade machine.
Even if it did, New Jersey wouldnt do the deal, theyd feel they arent getting enough in return and would probably opt for more talent in a trade ( in addition to a short or expiring contract, much like the dallas proposal.)
In reality , would this trade help san antonio? We lose maybe the only guy in the League capable of bothering Kobe bryant in Bruce bowen, the clutch shooter that is Mason , and one of our only three big guys in Fabio.
To hell with vince carter.
Despite this , i believe San antonio has a shot at the title as is.
Is one player away from winning the title for sure.
And two players away from completely dominating the league.
And i dont mean all star type players. I mean a physical big ( like rasheed wallace) and or another forward/guard who can get to the rim in under 10 minutes.
A deal could probably be struck , but the nets would want manu, and we all know that is not going down in this lifetime.
Furthermore, San antonio would be mortgaging their future with carters 14 million dollar a year, 4 year contract. The guy is a phenomenal talent , but hes 32 and on the decline.
No way i can see us getting carter. Its all poppycock.
alamobro, you’re reaching Hipuks’ self-answering might.
If we get Mason for Fab, Mason and Bowen we’ll win this championship. Period.
But it won’t happen.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Now that's a lot of players...
I’m still holding out hope for Rasheed. Udoka + Fabs + Finley? And maybe they end of releasing Finley?
But…with the way Bonner has been stepping up (perhaps he’s been getting more comfortable with his role) and KT knocking down jumpers, I’d like to see what we could do without having to offer up our bench/depth. VC or ‘Sheed won’t help us if we only have 3 guys on the bench.
"Tim Duncan is a human trophy, not a flighty canvas of mood and invention: not a winner, just someone who wins games." - The Macrophenomenal Pro Basketball Almanac
Udoka + Fabs + Finley? Salaries don’t match, I think. But that’d be the most loopsided trade ever.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Gasol for Kwame, his brother and critteron is pretty loopsided, but there is now way the league will allow that…
/2008
BTW, I have been lurking for a long time, but have been intimidated to comment given the level of quality in the discourse here. This is one of my favorite sites to visit for a couple of years now. Though I have been saddened to watch Matthew slide down the bitterness ladder.
Well, I for one am glad then that SiMA and Surfergirl have lowered the quality of discourse enough for you to feel comfortable commenting. Welcome.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 13, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Nice. Both of you. I don’t know if that was a knock on SiMA and Surfergirl, or a knock on ET. Be careful not to crush Matthew when you guys descend down that ladder.
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 13, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
ATS, quit hating on SiMA and me. That was uncalled for!
Leave the gun; take the Ginobili.
by surfergirlsa on Feb 20, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Isn’t that what the Internet is all about? Heey, Matthew, since you’re here… how do you add tags to a game thread?
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
See, I told you LatinD. But no, you never listen to me.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 13, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
I wanted to check with the boss man… it’s not that I don’t trust you. …Really.
Ahem.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Speaking of which, please consider this request (hounding) numero tres…
Matthew, please change the title to include Manu Ginobili.
Oh, but please remember no ATS quotes – that would just ruin the whole change.
Thanks… and have a great weekend!
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
This is the first request I noticed
I’ll change it soon. Probably by the time you read this. I think my toe might be bleeding, but I’m too lazy to check.
C’mon Powell, don’t take crap off no woman!
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 13, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks, Matthew.
I knew you weren’t a grouch like some people. Ummm, I hope you took care of the bleeding?
Is that code for ATS is crazy?… Cuz I’m totally with you brother.
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
C’mon, bella, everybody knows that “My armpit is itchy” is code for “ATS is crazy” and “My toe might be bleeding” is code for … um … I guess I don’t know.
Matthew, that’s not showing up in my PtR translator. Is there a new version I’m missing, or did I miss an update or something?
TITLEBOT 21 READY TO PERFORM MISSION. BANK SHOT CALCULATING.
- Goathair at theblowtorch.blogspot.com
hey, hey, hey… I’m the official translator extraordinaire on this site. Are you trying to steal my job?
However, i could use an assistant. Obviously, I would take credit for all your amazing good work and blame you relentlessly when you screw up something. So are you in?
Yes, I know… TWSS.
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
Hey there! JRW is NOBODY’s assistant!
But you make it sound so glamorous that I have no choice but to agree to your proposal. Getting no credit seems like a downer, but it’d be ok if I got a big, tricked out name tag.
TITLEBOT 21 READY TO PERFORM MISSION. BANK SHOT CALCULATING.
- Goathair at theblowtorch.blogspot.com
Dude, I’m almost done with that… I’m just about finished hot glueing the swarovski crystals on the O.
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
Mebbe Valentine’s weekend has weakened my mental powers, but I think I may need for you to explain that.
Cuz I don’t get it. Sorry
TITLEBOT 21 READY TO PERFORM MISSION. BANK SHOT CALCULATING.
- Goathair at theblowtorch.blogspot.com
From Wiki: Swarovski is the luxury brand name for the range of precision-cut lead crystal glass and related products produced by Swarovski AG of Wattens, Austria.
Swarovski crystals are essentially used on anything and everything… originally the crystals were used for women’s jewelry. Now, you can google and view a swarovski flat screen plasma TV, a swarovski skull, a swarovski toilet… pretty much any surface can be covered in crystals.
However, it does have wonderful uses… I once saw a very tastefully done Tim Duncan Swarovski beaded jersey…. oooh, sparkly.
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
and you were referring to the fact that you were just putting the finishing touches on my tricked out name tag with Swarovski crystals on the last “O” of “jollyrogerwilco”
I think I get it now
TITLEBOT 21 READY TO PERFORM MISSION. BANK SHOT CALCULATING.
- Goathair at theblowtorch.blogspot.com
You got it.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go glue Swarovski’s on my iphone.
;-)
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
I’ll be sure to cancel the stigmata crew for the investigation.
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
by bellasa on Feb 14, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I dont like Vince Carter if it kills our bench depth. We cant win a championship with a 6/7 man rotation. Besides, we have tje big 3. Carter WILL demand shots. Lots of them. He isnt more effective than TP,TD or Manu. Imagine how many balls would manu get with Carter and TP on the floor. Seriously, debate is over. I Wn. Peace.
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
Absolutely correct. There cannot be a Big Four (especially if they don’t ALL share the ball). VC cracks under pressure anyway…
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
by raynorschiene on Feb 13, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
I bet if Carter came to the Spurs, he would be all “I’m going to do whatever it takes to be a champion, the Spurs are champions, etc.” It would be sort of like when the Spurs brought in Glenn Robinson—he was known as a selfish offensive player, but came in and played a role for the Spurs without complaining. Because of his size and athletic ability, which had made him a premium scorer, he ended up being our best defensive matchup against Carmelo Anthony, and later gave us a spark off the bench against Detroit in the Finals.
For at least one and possibly two years, I bet Carter would be similarly willing to concentrate on defense. With his size and athletic ability, there’s no reason he couldn’t be an A+ defender if his mind was in the right place (and you know Pop and Spurs environment would get his mind in the right place). He would be a great matchup for someone like Kobe, particularly if he wasn’t expending energy on the offensive end. And every now and again, he could score thirty for you if TP and Manu were having tough nights.
That said, does it make sense to pay a fourth wheel $16 million (or whatever he makes)?
I agree with everything you said, but vehemently refuse to give you a ‘+1’ out of spite. Carter would be great for us if psychologically controlled like Robinson and even SJax was; but losing Mason is a hard one to stomach. And I could see Rog going on to even greater things (see: Turkoglu, Hedo). The money is the clear hang up here, and there’s no way Holt & Co. pony up that much for so much uncertainty; they’ve never been that risky and I don’t see it happening now.
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 13, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Carter cant defend. Glenn Robinson was past his prime, and my memory fails me but I dont remember seeing too much of him in the playoff. He got lots of DNP’s.
Again, Carter is a guy who needs lots of shots to do something. We dont need that. Ask Phoenix how well are doing with Jason Richardson (a very similar player, even if carter is still a bit better at age 32).
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
I would disagree with you that he can’t defend… he just doesn’t defend well. He’s not like Steve Nash, where he’s too slow afoot, too small, too weak to ever be a good defender. He’s more like Amare, where his physical attributes tell you he should be a good defender but isn’t. Would Amare defend if he came to SA? Yes, or he wouldn’t play. Same with Carter, except Carter is older, and a) has had his time in the sun as a superstar and b) realizes his championship window is closing.
Since you didn’t like my Glenn Robinson analogy, how about this one: Paul Pierce? Who would have thought 3 years ago that Pierce would turn himself into a premium defensive player who could do a credible job checking Kobe? No one, that’s who. But with his physical talent, he was able to turn himself around when surrounded by the right teammates.
Kobe torched the celtics. They lost because Gasol is soft and the rest of the supporting cast didnt do their thing. Pierce always has been a passable defender. Defense its not about physical atributes. Bowen at age 37 continues to be one if not the best perimeter defender, at least in short periods of time.
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
Kobe got his points against Boston during the course of the game, but in the 4th quarters, when the games were on the line — they had an answer for him, and it was team defense. The Lakers couldn’t’ score and the Celts won the series.
But I agree that Bowen can still be an elite defender in bursts.
TITLEBOT 21 READY TO PERFORM MISSION. BANK SHOT CALCULATING.
- Goathair at theblowtorch.blogspot.com
For the record I’m still completely against this trade if only because Carter getting paid 14mil+ for the next four seasons really kills the team’s future plans. If was expiring this year or in 2010 I’d be all over this. Also I don’t see the point going for big time All-Star when we already have 3. We can improve by getting another roleplayer.
Carter would absolutely make us better short term. R21x is right, though, that he makes WAAAY too much money. Do we want a 35-year old Vince Carter in a couple of years killing our salary cap? Does Tony start sulking because someone else on the team makes more money than he does?
On the other hand, TD and Manu aren’t going to play forever. Hypothetically, what if adding Carter guaranteed at least one title in the next three years, with maybe a 50-50 chance at 2. After which point, the Spurs would turn into the Heat and be in the lottery for a couple of years. Would you guys take that deal? I would sure think about it.
by tomasito on Feb 13, 2009 12:53 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I forgot to mention that I’d have to consider whether VC would cost us Rasheed Wallace, who would help us a lot more.
by tomasito on Feb 13, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+
I’d much rather go for Sheed at this point if we’re willing to mix things up. He makes more sense and keeps us more stable for the future as well.
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 13, 2009 1:40 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
My insightful analysis deserves a rec!
by tomasito on Feb 13, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was meaning this post in response to yours above. But yes, I’m suddenly over my grudge and reccing you again.
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 13, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish I’d have known about reccing when tomasito had that “I WILL PUT YOU IN THE GROUND! DO YOU HEAR ME?” post.
THAT deserved to be recced from here to the end of the world.
TITLEBOT 21 READY TO PERFORM MISSION. BANK SHOT CALCULATING.
- Goathair at theblowtorch.blogspot.com
Reccing is the newest, coolest thing ever. If I could somehow figure out how to double-rec tomasito, I’d win our little war once and for all. In fact, you just got recced. Congratulations, JRW.
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 13, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
My Oscar Moment
I’d like to accept this rec on behalf of all of the people who made this possible. I’m giddy and humbled.
TITLEBOT 21 READY TO PERFORM MISSION. BANK SHOT CALCULATING.
- Goathair at theblowtorch.blogspot.com
by J.R. Wilco on Feb 13, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Someone needs to make a fanpost… Paxson is going to quit, JO and Marion were just traded… There’s some stuff going on right now, and I’m at work…
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
BTW, guys, check out my blog and pass the word. (Click on my nick, then the site’s link.)
And yes, I’ll continue to shamelessly plug it till you all find out. …That’s not spam, is it? Because if it is, I have a pill that will make you grow where it really matters. It works!
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
I was going to ask about this after you initially plugged it on the last thread, but instead chose to spend an hour on Google to no avail in your honor. Thanks for the direction though. I will now unabashedly flag your ass.
No, I kid. That. Is. Freakin. Awesome.
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 13, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks, SiMA. Google still hasn’t captured it… Do I have to do something, or they just check on their own after a while?
I’m such a noob.
BTW, I’ll let you guys know when I post that pic.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
EXACTLY my next question. Although you won’t need to inform, since you’re now in the “favorites” file.
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 13, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
you are such a chauvinist pig.
Lots of potential there though. You’d never know from the blog that you were AN ARGENTINE, WHICH IS GOOD SINCE ALL THE AMERICANS WOULD IGNORE YOU IF THEY KNEW.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 13, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
Giving up on Mason, with that contract
And his contributions so far, for a one dimensional player like VC doesnt seem like a Spurs move at all
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
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