WHO ARE ARGENTINIANS?
by argentinosaurus777 on Feb 1, 2009 8:41 AM CST
Email
PrintI AM NOT SURE HOW THIS WORK .I JUST READED THE ARTICLE ABOUT MANU GINOBILI AND I AM NOT SURPRISED IF SOMEBODY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD IS AGAINTS ARGENTINIANS IN SPORTS.
I AM ARGENTINIAN BUT I AM NOT BLIND WHEN ANY TEAM HAVE A BETTER PLAYER IS THE TRUTH AND I AM NOTGOING TO DEFEND A TEAM OR A PLAYER THAT IS NOT DOING GOOD.
MANU GINOBILI IS NOT THE FIRST ARGENTINIAN TO BE IGNORED OR HATED.
CARLOS MONZON,"WAS THE "GREATEST " BOXER OF ALL TIME RETAINING THE TITLE FOR 15 TIMES AGAINST THE BEST BOXERS IN HIS TIME.BUT WHO KNOW HIM?...HE WAS BORN IN ARGENTINA...MARVIN MARVELOUS HAGLER WAS TRYING TO MATCH HIS RECORD WHEN HE LOST AGAINST SUGAR RAY LEONARD IN FEBRUARY OF 1987...BUT WHO KNOWS MONZON ,HE WAS ARGENTINIAN
I WAS SHOCKED AND ANGRY TO SEE THAT THE SPORT ILLUSTRATED
SHOWED THE ARGENTINIAN CHAMPION RINGO BONAVENA AS THE "ITALIAN"
BOXER WHO KNOCKED DOWN MOHAMED ALI IN THE 4TH ROUND AND THE REFEREE DIDN'T COUNT EVEN...GIVING HIM TIME TO RECOVER AND WIN THE MATCH.ALI WAS FAR BETTER,BUT RINGO HAD A VERY DANGEROUS BLOW.
THE GREATEST FORMULA 1 RACER EVER WAS FROM ARGENTINA:JUAN MANUEL FANGIO,5 TIMES CHAMPION..WITH DIFFERENTS CARS,NOT LIKE SCHUMAGGER THAT IS ALL TECHNOLLOGY.FANGIO COULD WIN A RACE IN A FORD -T.
BUT WHO KNOWS FANGIO HERE?,,,HE IS ARGENTINIAN.
DIEGO ARMANDO MARADONA ,.THE BEST SOCCER PLAYER EVER.THE EQUIVALENT OF MICHAEL JORDAN IN BASKET,FINISH HIS INTERNATIONAL CAREER HERE IN THE UNITED STATES,IN 1996 IN THE WORLD CUP.
MOST AMERICANS DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT EVENT IN SPORTS WAS GOING ON,SOCCER MOVES MORE MONEY THAT ALL SPORTS IN THE UNITED STATES CONVINED BUT THIS COUNTRY WHO HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE A CHAMPION BUT REFUSE TO SEE ANYTHING NEW OR THAT SEEMS "FOREIGN" AS WORTHY.
WHY WE ARGENTINIANS CAN SPEAK OF BABY RUTH,MICHAEL JORDAN,MAGIC JOHNSON,SUGAR RAY LEONARD.LANDON DONOVAN. AND AMERICANS DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE IS ARGENTINA?
ASK A GUY FROM PAKISTAN,NIGERIA INDIA AUSTRALIA GERMANY,NEW ZELAND ,JAMAICA...WHO DIEGO MARADONA IS AND THEY WILL TELL YOU.
ASK AN AMERICAN AND HE JUST DOESN'T KNOW...I LOVE ALL COUNTRIES,ALL SPORTS,AS ARGENTINIAN ,I HOPE ONE DAY AMERICANS RECOGNICE THE TRUTH,EVEN IF IT SPEAK AGAINST ARGENTINIANS ,BUT JUST NOW...WE ARE GOIG TO KEEP TAKING BLOWS...LIKE MANU.
BY THE WAY I AM A UTAH JAZZ FAN AND EXPECT EAGER TO SEE THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS TO COME AND TORCH US LIKE ALWAYS,BECAUSE IS A BETTER TEAM BECAUSE THEY HAVE MANU GINOBILI ,THE ARGENTINIAN
I LOVE ALL SPORTS ,ALL COUNTRIES,ALL RACES ,ALL LANGUAGES.
MAY BE ONE DAY WE WILL GO TO SPORTS CONTEST INSTEAD WARS.
THANKS ADRIAN MORETTO
66 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Holy CAPS lock…that kinda hurts my eyes.
I’m not really sure what you’re saying, Adrain, but thanks for the post. As an American, I can assure you that I love Manu Ginobili. I want to have many Argentinian/American babies with him. He rocks my world, even on his bad days. Oh, and I totally know where Argentina is on the map.
Leave the gun; take the Ginobili.
I think this is LatinD posting at 5 in the morning after seriously getting his drink on.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 1, 2009 11:20 AM CST reply actions
Adrian, thanks for posting but you have to correct your facts to support such a rant.
1. Nobody here, at this blog, hates Manu
2. Maradona wasn’t the greatest ever. Pele was. Maradona’s NBA equivalent was maybe Pistol Pete Maravich. I intentionally picked a Jazz player who was a show man.
3. Maradona’s defining moment was cheating. You would have to go to a New England Patriots blog to find a fan base who sympathizes.
4. Formula 1 is a silly, silly activity. Noboby, anywhere, should care who Fangio is.
And, there isn’t a doubt the US is retarded when it comes to its appreciation of soccer. This isn’t even worth mentioning at this point. Everybody should just take it for granted.
All this is in jest. I’d much rather US troops were in Iraq playing soccer instead of playing with guns.
Peace,
ATS
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 1, 2009 1:31 PM CST reply actions
“And, there isn’t a doubt the US is retarded when it comes to its appreciation of soccer”……. you proved that point by saying that Pele was the greatest ever. Just ask a guy from israel, morocco, serbia or ivory coast who the best soccer player ever was. They will all tell you maradona. The only people who thinks Pele is better are the FIFA (coincidentally, Pele works for them) and the united statians (because Pele played in USA).
Oh and Maradona’s defining moment was the best goal in the history of the sport (on a elimination match in the 1986 world cup). Even Jordan making the BEST play in the history of basket on a conference final wouldn’t match that (after all, goals are very scarce in soccer, and you dont play 7-game series)
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
Here is the link, Maradona’s defining moment:
That’s difficult to do in basketball, now imagine doing it with your feet.
BTW, I still think Maradona is an ignorant moron. I dont like the guy at all. After he retired he was very close to dying because of drugs. He is like Barkley but X100. An honest guy, but still not a very good example. But that doesnt mean he wasnt the best.
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
Sorry HERE
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
First, I love the tight shorts. Those are awesome.
Second, that was a very impressive run for a goal.
Third, I saw a 10 minute video a year ago chock full of very similar goals by Pele. Obviously, a lot of the competition and situations would have been less than the World Cup.
Four, I think you may be blinded by your Argentine passion for that World Cup — and rightly so, I’m not putting you down in the least here — to call it the greatest goal in World Cup history since, from what I interpret from your post, it wasn’t in the final. And there have been a lot of goals scored in World Cup history.
Five, no matter how you slice. I’m retarded even for an American.
Six, I don’t know jack crap about Maradona except that he had something called “the hand of god” goal and I wanted to make a joke at the Patriots expense.
Seven, thanks for sharing. Seriously. I love learning about the different athletes and seeing their highlights.
Eight, I am actually watching the AC Milan/Lazio match right now on Sopcast. And I never watch soccer.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 1, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
first: the laides loved those shorts too
second: I still im amazed at the speed in which he did all that.
third and four: it was named the best goal in the history of soccer by FIFA (the international asociation of football, the one that doesnt like Maradona).
Five: there’s a big difference between being retarded and being ignorant. After lots of interaction with people from USA I gotta say that you people are a lot more intelligent that you get credit for. But yes, you are ignorant as hell about the outside world, but retarded? nope
Six: just remember that there’s another impressive argentine and what the majority of fans know about him is that he “flops a lot”
Seven: right now the Super Bowl is on the TV on Espn and I dont get what all the fuzz is about. Maybe some highlight videos could help me.
Eight: see seven
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
I understand your bias here, but...
I live here in Central Europe, and most of the Europeans I’ve spoken to about this debate would side with Pele. And as one who played football for a dozen years and really appreciates the sport, I would have to agree with them.
Statistics?
Pele scored 1281 goals in 1363 games; 77 goals(!) in 92 caps for Brazil, 12 goals in World Cups.
Maradona scored 311 in 590 games; 34 goals in 91 caps for Argentina, 8 goals in World Cups.
WC victories? Pele 3, Maradona 1.
But of course we can’t just look at those stats, b/c they played different positions in different eras. In the end, it’s like choosing between Beethoven and Mozart. They were both tremendously gifted players, but Pele was a decade or two ahead of his time – a forerunner to all the bigger stars who followed. So I would say that Pele is 1A and Maradona 1B, and Johan Cruyff would not be a distant third.
Key: different eras. You can’t compare football during Pele’s time to modern football. Most games ended with more than 6 goals, and some had teams making over 10 goals…
For the record, check Pele’s teammates in those WCs (Garrincha anyone?) and Maradona’s in ’90 and ’82.
It’s interesting that in Pele’s era they actually played with a ‘deader’ ball. I will agree that overall Pele had better teammates (the 1970 Brazilian team was absolutely incredible).
As I said, it’s like choosing between two great composers. But to claim that “the only people who thinks Pele is better are the FIFA (coincidentally, Pele works for them) and the united statians (because Pele played in USA)” is absurd.
I would say that much of the Middle East sees Pele as the best as well. Maradona has pissed off both israelis and palestinians because of his political comments, so that may have something to do with it, but I think an argument can be made for either of these two.
I'm comfortable winning -- Emmanuel Ginobili
Teach me something
What is the nature (in general) of the relationship between Argentines and Brazilians? Is it a cordial type of relationship that just enjoys having a fun debate about whose football star was the greatest ever? Or are there much deeper animosities there?
In my city (a touristic center) we like brazilians balls because they are our most important client. We dont like brazilians, but hey!, they are paying my studies
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
I’m hoping this is just the language barrier, and still believing the best in you, Chilai.
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 3, 2009 12:44 AM CST up reply actions
I meant to say “we lick brazilians balls”…. sad but true
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
I’m not sure that this actually makes anything better though.
by SgtinManusArmy on Feb 3, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe it is a translation thing. I mean, we would say “sucking up to the Brazilians” and I’m not thinking that would translate to well. Or brown nosing?
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Feb 3, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
I’m from Argentina and I agree with LatinD. Of course there are idiots on both sides that really hate each other but overall I would say there is not real animosity. what I mean is that it’s not even close with the kind of animosity between Serbs and Croats for instance. It’s mailnly a sports thing.
Hi long time reader first time poster.
Hi 4him, I don’t know where are you from but there’s no doubt that Maradona is the most popular soccer player in the world, that’s why he won the “FIFA world player of the century” award by public voting with 53.60% of the votes against 18.53% of Pele (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugador_del_Siglo_de_la_FIFA).
I’m not saying that he’s the best (‘cause I honestly haven’t seen Pele) but there’s proof that, like chilai said, Maradona is the crowd’s favorite. So I don’t see any “bias” from his part.
P.S: I love the site.
Just remember
that most of those people who voted were like you and never saw Pele play. And the video footage that is so prevalent in the modern era wasn’t around in Pele’s time. Those things put Pele at a great disadvantage in terms of ‘popularity’. And “most popular” certainly doesn’t equal greatest player. (Consider, for example, the incredible # of All-Star votes of Bruce Bowen – should he be an All-Star this year?) I would say that Maradona was much more about celebrity and Pele was much more about substance.
I would say otherwise, Maradone was more substance. Brazilian players are all about flair, argentinians not.
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
Hahaha I agree with pollackj. As regards the Maradona-Pele thing, let me start by saying I’m not one of Maradona’s biggest fans outside of the pitch, but I think he was the best ever. Pele’s advocates always rely on stats and that ‘s fine. Stats favour Pele. But to Watch Maradona play was just a different experience. The things he did on the pitch-and I don’t mean that Robinho circus crap-were like nothing that was seen before. Just my opinion.
Anyway, I think it’s impossible to reach a consensus and I actually don’t think we need to. They were both amazing players. Can’t we just be happy with that?Is it really necessary to crown one as “the best”?
I would reply, but Chilai already did it for me.
I’ll just add that Maradona’s performance in the ’86 WC is what defines him as the best football player of all time. Where did you get that La Mano de Dios was his defining moment? Have you been talking to many Brits?
I love football, and have watched a lot of Pele’s footage. I think you’re not taking into account the fact that he played a different spot – defenses were pretty much nonexistent back when Brazil was scoring at will, and dribbling was that much easier. What’s amazing about Maradona is that he did what Pele did in “modern rules football”, so to speak.
Anyway.
Paranoia!!!
Hey guys I just joined because I wanted to address some of my countryman argentinosauerus777 remarks. Dude don’t be so paranoid. No one is trying to obliterate Argentina’s sport achievements. It’s just that if you don’t like a particular sport, it’s possible that you don’t know that much about it. And most Americans don’t like soccer. At least not in the way Argentinians do.
The same with Formula 1 and boxing: if you don’t like those sports, why would you know who Monzon or Fangio was? I don’t watch volleyball, so I have no idea who the best volleyball player in history was.
Also to claim that “Americans don’t even know where Argentina is” is a bit of a generalization. And let me tell you, I know people from Argentina that couldn’t find the U.S. on a map to save their lives.
And finally (I know that this is to long for a first comment ever), you came to defend Manu’s honor to the wrong place: for what I’ve read, that’s one Aaronstampler’s job.
yea, you won’t find a bigger group of Manu-lovers than you will here. Seriously, have a look out there – nobody loves him like we do.
Seriously, the only worse place to write a rant like this would be Manu’s house in Bahia Blanca
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
Adrian, I’d reply, but just skimming over your post made my brain hurt. You should avoid all-caps.
And for the record, let’s use “Argentine” when you talk about people, not “Argentinian”, please. Why? ‘Cause I’m slowly working to set a standard that doesn’t insult my ears. I have spoken. Thankewverymuch.
This whole thread hurt my head. Adrian, we all love Manu and I’ve been to your lovely country so… so nothing I guess. thanks for sharing?
Tell me LD, why the big debate between Argentine and Argentinian? I thought both were acceptable. Do certain regions use one over the other? I don’t understand.
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
As far as I know, they’re both accepted, and Brits use Argentinean too from time to time. But Argentine sounds better to me, and closer to the local “argentino”. Do we really need another syllable?
There’s a sort of push among linguists to use “Argentine” to refer to people and “Argentinian” for things and the like (think “Spaniard” and "Spanish"), but I don’t know how serious that is.
Actually they are both acceptable. What I’ve found out mainly in translator’s forums is that it seems to be the other way around from what latinD said. that is: Argentine for things and Argentinian or Argentinean for people.
I actually use Argentine for everything, but since the poster used Argentinian I just use that too. Still don’t know why it would insult your ears but I don’t mind switching back to Argentine.
Just personal preference – I wasn’t being serious there.
But seriously, doesn’t “Argentinian” sound jarring to you?
Yes, it does. I prefer Argentine. Probably because I studied Brittish English and all my teachers made a point of saying Argentine, since both the government in press releases and the BBC use Argentine. It comes down to usage and, ultimately, personal preference since both terms are acceptable.
On another note, it’s a shame the original poster didn’t came back to comment and help us understand where this rant came from.
That was the typical post someone makes when he gets angry without knowing the context. I’ve done that a lot in the past, just swimming through blogs i dont frequent and after feeling attacked (like when they say the spurs are boring or dirty) I would post a rant like this. Its a common thing when you are new to the internet or blogs.
Probably he read the responses and felt like a dumbass for not putting things in context (again, I’ve felt the same a lot of times)
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
lol, Im argentinian , but i think this post was a little bit strange. People can think whatever they want, USA president can say God Bless America, and that doesnt mean that its the truth. If I start to think that God belongs to USA i will have to commit suicide. Now Im watching the Super Bowl, I started to watched it 4 years ago, and its kind of a sport that only USA people play. The rest of the world play rugby. So we cant know all the famous stars on each sport, only if you really like sports.
I love football (soccer) and to me Di Stefano was better than Pele and Maradona, but I can say this because I know about football. ANd we can talk hours about this and about if Manu sucks or if he is good, but at the end , to apreciate someone without selfish judment is hard, and not many people can do it. So it doesnt matter waht people can say or not say. Live and let die.
fangio, the greatest ever? oh come on…technology or not, schumacher had phenomenal talent. and what about senna, prost, jim clark, lauda, jackie stewart?
by sleep research facility on Feb 2, 2009 6:28 AM CST reply actions
I think it was during the great Senna/Prost feud that technology got out of hand and started overcoming driving skills by such a huge margin that the F1 became mostly irrelevant.
Give me rally any day.
without a doubt, rally drivers are the most versatile and talented drivers on earth. however, i find the actual format a bit…dull and dry.
and i also don’t think its fair to punish f1 drivers for the technology that aids them. that doesn’t diminish true talent. it may help an above-average talent be world champion though.
by sleep research facility on Feb 2, 2009 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t know if Fangio is the greatest ever, but he has to be up there with any discussion. What a lot of people forget it’s that he was in his 40’s when he was racing in Formula One. IN HIS 40’s. He had 51 starts and 35 podiums with 24 wins, that winning percentage will never be equaled. The greats usually have one defining moment, something that truly stands out in their career. His drive in the Nürburgring is the stuff of legends. He was always known as someone who had to go as fast as he had to to win. But in Nürburgring he unleashed the beast and showed what his skills could do when pushed to the limit.
Another thing that’s pretty rare, he universally liked by his competitors. It’s hard find in today’s F1 a great driver who’s also not a douche.
"Long ago there were these two awful towns. Sodom, named after sodomy, and Gomorrah, named after...after an even weirder move"- The Professor Brothers
don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying he’s not in the discussion – he most definitely is. you don’t do what he did without being one of the greatest of all time.
but to say he was the greatest, and then to only compare him to schumacher, is a massive diservice to many other drivers. prost won 4 championships, senna, lauda, stewart (not to mention piquet and my fellow aussie jack brabham) won 3. ascari could have impacted how many fangio won if he hadn’t been killed. jim clark could have notched more had he not been killed.
i think its impossible to annoint a single greatest in F1.
by sleep research facility on Feb 2, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe Pele is like Babe Ruth: incredible stats and a gigantic impact on the game, generally considered by casual fans as the greatest of all time, but played in an era so different that it’s difficult to compare his achievements to modern players. I guess that would make Maradona somewhat akin to Barry Bonds: again with amazing performances, and in the argument for greatest of all time, but generally disliked personally (except in his home area, where he was revered), and indelibly tainted by suspicion of cheating.
BTW, my wife and her family are from England, so you know where I come down on the “Mano de Dios” chicanery :-)
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
Lets put it in basketball terms. Think about Wilt Chamberlain. He has by FAR the best numbers in basketball. Is he the greatest player? Of course not, he played in an era where defenses where a joke and he was a seven footer roaming on a court filled with little skinny white players. A guy like Matt Harpring proabably would be considered a phisical center in that era.
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
Different Eras
I quite honestly am completely ingnorant about soccer and who both players were other than the fact that when I was a kid I vaguely remember a commercial with Pele in it. That being said, the fact that they were from different eras makes it almost impossible to truly compare them. I’ll use the NFL as an example. Many older (much older) football fans would contend that Jim Brown is the greatest running back of all time. If he would played in a 16 game season and not retired while still in his prime, his yardage total would have been impossible to surpass. Keep in mind that in his day he was bigger than most of the linebackers he played against. Faster than most of the DB’s that chased after him. Fast forward to the present and the physical evolution of today’s pro athelete. Assuming time travel were possible and we brought JB to line up against today’s pro athletes and complicated defensive schemes, he wouldn’t be the towering, physically superior freak of nature he was in his era. He’d be average. Conversely, if you limited todays physically superior back to a 10 game season and early retirement, his record, not Paytons or Smiths, would probably still stand. Again impossible to legitamently compare, and this too I would guess applies to Pele and Maradona…..oh well. It is what is
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
But still…Maradona is from Argentina!!! You know… Manu’s country
"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what."
I Love Manu
And what he’s done for the Spurs. I love Timmy too but that love isn’t transferable to Wake Forest or their alumns (hate effin CP3)
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
by raynorschiene on Feb 6, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Featured Stories
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- The Golden State Warriors will likely move to San Francisco in 2017
- Chris Paul goes off the top of the backboard for one last Clipper highlight before losing to Spurs (VIDEO)
- Behind the Box Score, where the Heat grabbed control behind LeBron James’ amazing afternoon
- Behind the Box Score, where the Oklahoma City Thunder dominated the fourth quarter. Again
- Kevin Durant’s game-winner beats the Lakers in Game 4 (VIDEO)
