Spurs Fail Again In Loss To Jazz
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 8, 2009 10:28 AM CST
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The Spurs failed me last night, plain and simple. I don't care if it was close. I don't care if they had a chance to win in this 104-101 loss. They didn't win -- thus, they failed me.
I had a terrible day yesterday. I have a leak in the water line that leads into my house. Mrs ATS' car overheated on the way home from work -- it was 45 degrees out -- and had to be dropped off at the shop. And I can't tell you what tops the list. So when I sat down to watch the game, I needed a win. My team needed to win a game for me. Because that's why I HAVE a team. They need to make my day better. It is my escape from reality. It is where I get to check out of my life and get something enjoyable placed into it.
Instead, they had another suckfest in a game they really couldn't afford to lose. At 9-9, with such an easy schedule so far, our record is very worrying.
I think we all remember this Pop quote from last year:
We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad.
If Pop dropped the "on 'D" part from that line, it would apply aptly to this year's team. Last night encapsulated all the problems we have seen. Let's take a look.
Turnovers
This is an easy one. We just don't take care of the ball, and it is a team effort (or failure) across the board. Last night against the Jazz, we had "only" 15 turnovers. "Only" because that is our best turnover rate in the last three games. But when the TOs came last night, they came in waves. We had 4 at the half. We then fueled the 37-19 drubbing the Jazz gave us in the third quarter with 7 turnovers.
Defense
The Jazz scored on 12 straight possessions in just under 6 minutes. They went on to shoot 53% for the game. This is after they got off to a terrible start early and were in the mid-30s after the first quarter. Again, this is nothing new to this game. The Spurs have not been able to play consistently on the defensive end for an entire game against any decent team.
Matt Bonner and The Final Play
Matt provided both a very high point in the game and a very low point. He lit up the scoreboard with 28 points. He also grabbed an impressive 8 rebounds. He caught fire and got us back into the game in the fourth quarter. He had a 17-point quarter. Then, inexplicably, with 10 seconds left and the Spurs down by one point, he decided to go one-on-one from the top of the key. Of course, this didn't go well.
How the hell was that our final play?
Execution In The Clutch
We've been abysmal in the final minutes of games. I'm used to us executing. I'm used to our ability to get good shots. This year, we are turning the ball over and getting terrible shots.
Last night with 3:00 left in a tie game, our next three possessions were: Manu TO, Bonner 1-2 free throws, Tim TO. Utah scored on their two possessions between ours and took a 3 point lead.
Nuggets end of game, down 1 with 3:14 left: Bad foul by Manu, Tony TO, missed layup, gave up offensive rebound, gave up offensive rebound
Celtics: The Mason quick 3 with 2:14 left, Michael Finley standing out of bounds when receiving a pass.
Thunder: down 5 with 40 seconds and a Tony Parker TO, down 3 with 15 seconds and a RJ TO.
Yeah, I'm doing some cherry picking -- sour cherries at that -- but the fact is we just haven't played well in close games in the last two minutes. Whether against good teams or not.
One And A Half Stars
I know I'd like to think we have a Big Four, but right now we've got a Big One and a Half.
Tim has been awesome. As good as we could want him to be.
Tony has been pretty good, but he has been extra-super-sloppy with the ball at times.
Manu has struggled. Sure, he's shown some flashes of getting it back but he is a LONG way from playing at an all-star level. His shooting the last three games has been very poor. 4-12, 3-9, and 2-7 for 32%. Add in 7 turnovers against 7 assists. When you play good teams, you need your best players to play well.
Rage has been, um, not scoring and not doing much of anything else offensively. He's averaged just under 8 points per game over the last 3, and hauled in just under 4 rebounds per game. He's 3-10 from 3-point range and shooting 36% overall. He's 0-5 from the free throw line. He's had exactly 2 turnovers and 2 assists in each game. That's consistency, I guess. Yeah, he's new to the system, but it is still basketball. The free throw line hasn't moved.
We need a Big Productive Four. Our stars not named Tim need to start playing like all-stars.
Our Free Agents
McDyess, Bogans, and Ratliff. Ewwww. Isn't that the first word that comes to mind when you think about how those guys are playing? Or, maybe with Ratliff, you thought "who?"
There really isn't even much to discuss about these guys.
Some Urgency Please
Ok, I feel better. I just had to get that bunch of suck off my chest. For sure, and make no mistake, we are playing like suck.
We are in an interesting situation. No, I don't think we are in danger of missing the playoffs. But since when was that the goal? The goal is to win it all, and I sure as hell don't see that happening with this team. A lot of guys are going to have to start playing better. And they better start doing it soon. Because they have a LONG way to go as a team. The Spurs like to say, "It's a process." Well, that process takes time. You don't just get better overnight, and they have a whole lot of getting better to do.
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Yeah, the Bonner final shot was a WTF moment. Actually, him being on the floor for the final shot was a WTF moment. Bonner is a hustle, energy, can make some open shots off the bench kind of guy. He’s very useful in smaller stretches, trying to ride him to carry your team the whole 4th qtr. is a losing strategy. At some point Pop has learn how to recognize when he’s gotten what he can out of the guy, and that continuing to leave him in there at the expense of your star players is going to be disastrous. The final few minutes of last night’s game were completely surreal, as I watched us run our offense through Bonner rather than Duncan or Ginobili.
GO SPURS GO!
5 IN '10!
I don’t know. The couldas and wouldas are strong in this one. Matt had the hot hand, took a reasonably good shot, the ball bounced in and out and we lost. I applaud Matt for having the stones to take that shot, and let us not forget that he was the one that brought us back when the “Big 1 1/2” were on the bench.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
What I mean is, sure, I wish Duncan or Manu had driven to the basket instead, but if they were covered and Matt saw a hole in the defense, I’m not against him daring to dare.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I’m fine with Matt taking a shot. I’m not fine with Matt creating the shot. That’s not his gig. The same way I would be disappointed if the Spurs ran a play where the goal was to get Tony an open 3 on the wing. Not his shot. Yes, he was on fire. But he was on fire doing what he does.
And I wouldn’t call it a reasonably good shot.
Funny, I wouldn’t have called it “the stones”. I think of it as panicking and forcing something when it didn’t need to be forced. Po-tay-to po-tah-to.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 8, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Well our “Big bunch of Suck” hung Matt out to dry. Manu should have cut harder. Timmey should have called for a screen and broken free. Heck Tony should have zipped around. And most of all…Rage should learn to throw frigging fast passes through traffic!
It is a sad day when I have to defend Matty’s play in a loss. /sigh
Manu has to go back to his basics. Seriously. He is reducing our chances in end of game situations with critical turnovers.
Tony is okay. I don’t expect much more cerebral play from him. He has kind of peaked and is what he is now.
Agreed. It was a bad shot because that type of shot is not in Matt’s skill set, not because Matt took the shot. Timmeh seems to be the only one comfortable with his offense night in/night out. He knows what his game is and plays within the offense accordingly. There are times when everyone else seems to be either running around like chickens with their heads cut off or standing like their shoes are concrete. I don’t recall the Spurs offense looking this discombobulated over this long a stretch. It’s not an occasional lapse, it’s total failure to execute the basics.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
He was on fire doing what he does, and doing his own versions of the dreamshake and the sky hook. Just sayin’.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Yeah, and he had that crazy behind the back dribble that he got bailed out on the call when he went down like a ragdoll shot by a sniper. That one cracked me up.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 8, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
went down like a ragdoll shot by a sniper
Oh HAR.
I remember when that happened, someone on Twitter was begging for a gif of it.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Haha….it looked like he did the behind the back dribble and panicked and surprised himself all at the same time that his knees felt weak and he just slow-mo fell as if his soul just took a breather from all the excitement.
Bonner was just funny yesterday. He did other crazy things…can’t remember now.
I think the struggles of RJ, Manu and Tony are not unrelated to the fact that Bonner is having a career year so far. Most teams are crowding the lane, and letting us have all the open looks we want from 3. Thus, Bonner is kicking ass, but our slashers look like crap. Teams aren’t worried about the corner 3 anymore, so the defenders can stay closer to the lane, and then come over and try to strip the ball away. Mind you, that doesn’t account for all the TO’s, but a pretty good number of them. The Spurs need to start making their jump shots if they’re going to open up the rest of the offense. I’m talking to you, RJ.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
Making jump shots is also applicable to Mason, Bogans, McDyess, and Hill – pretty much everyone but Timmeh and Blair. Timmeh, because he’s overall shooting well this year, and Blair, because he doesn’t shoot jumpers. You’re right, because hen McDyess especially has hit his mid-range jumper, it’s opened up the rest of the lane and improved the spacing.
As for the turnovers, granted we are getting stripped too much in the paint, but those turnovers don’t automatically result in transition points. It’s the turnovers on the skip passes, the inbounds plays, and the top of the key passes that are killing us, because they result in either easy points or free throws for the other team.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
I was only able to catch the highlights of the game on Sportscenter and yelled out loud when I saw that Bonner was on the floor late in the 4th. Obviously, reading the recap and seeing how he did all night, it was understandable that Pop was playing him, but just is funny how that was my first reaction. I think most people don’t mind Bonner getting minutes, but crunch time minutes, not so much….
I know everyone talks about how difficult the Spurs system is to learn, but I agree with your point Wayne, that basketball is still basketball at some point. The free throw line hasn’t moved. Dribbling is still the same. Seems like RJ and others are trying so hard to fit in, that they are becoming almost mechanical. When you stop playing by feel and skill and start worrying about every detail and playing not to mess up, that’s when you have a problem. Almost seems like RJ is trying too hard to fit in and not just playing.
One more quick thought….the Spurs have always been good because they’ve had guys with lots of defined roles. The system has worked because they went out and got guys to fit the system. This was definitely the first time that we got guys first, and our trying to adjust the system. Seems like when you watch the game, nobody really has a good idea of what their role is, other than Timmy and Tony. And that seems evident from the last play of the game. Is RJ solely a defensive stopper? Is Manu supposed to run the point for the 2nd team or let George take over? Is McD going to start or come off the bench? Who is going to be closing the game? Are we an offensive team or a defensive team? Just seems like nobody has a clear cut idea of what they are supposed to be doing or even what this team is supposed to be. I know it’s a long season and we will keep progressing, but I would figure Pop or somebody has to come up with some defined roles and get a clear direction for the team. And it’s gotta be sooner rather than later.
See my FanPost on that last play. As for end-of-game, I agree we’re way out of sync. Last year we were a mid-pack team that knew how to pull out a victory in the last couple minutes. This year we’re one of those talented teams that can’t seem to get out of their own way and thus loses games even when they outplay their opponents. Last year Roger Mason makes that ill-advised 3 pointer against the Celtics. Last year Parker and Manu find an open Mason or Bonner or Finley in the final minutes instead of turning the ball over. This year, not so much.
I would rather Bonner taken a three. I do think he should have been on the court though. After his night, there is no way his man could cheat off of him.
The schedule is very favorable from here until the end of the month. The only two questionable games are @ Phoenix and then home for Miami. Following Phx with a SEGABABA at Golden State isn’t favorable either, but I could see our struggling Spurs go on a 10-2 or 9-3 run. That will put us at 18-12 overall. That will put us close to last season’s pace which was good enough to limp injured into a division win and a 3rd playoff seed. We don’t need to panic yet.
Seriously though, these are our next opponents:
Kings
Bobcats
@Clippers
@Suns
@Warriors (SEGABABA)
Pacers
Clippers
Blazers (without Oden)
@Bucks
@Knicks (SEGABABA)
Wolves
Heat
@Wizards (adding them because everyone things they suck here anyways…)
All I know is, I expect the Spurs to win every one of those games looking at them individually. As a whole, lose 2 or 3.
Thanks Blase. I think I see a light. No matter that we have to wade through teams mired in mediocrity to get there. Yay.
Yeah, the real goal is to get stronger as we wade against the weaker resistance of December so we can later stand strong in the deluge that is February/March and then May and June. If we are still playing like last night on January 8th against Dallas or January 12th against the Lakers, then it’s time to start gathering white rocks in case we need to layout our SOS’s and HELP’s. I’m not saying we need to win either of those games, but we can’t turn the ball over and fail to execute in long stretches.
I still think we need to have Parker come off the bench with Bonner and Mason who he is used to playing with and have Hill and Manu start with RJ, Duncan, and another big not named Bonner of your choice.
I’m not saying it would work, but it could….we just lost 3 games in a row starting the same lame starting lineup…..unless I’m wrong because I didn’t see the Denver game…either way, we’ve gotten a good look at Parker, Bogans, RJ, Dice, and Duncan and know that RJ and Dice can’t score in that lineup.
Correct me if I am wrong. But in these three losses, haven’t our BAM played substantially less minutes together on the floor? In all the wins preceding, I distinctively remember stretches of the game with the BAM unit. In the losses, except for a Blair foul trouble in one of them, I don’t remember BAM on the floor much.
Maybe I am wrong. Or maybe Pop is outsmarting himself trying not to show too much. Or maybe we will hear about ET communication tomorrow.
Watching this team reminds me of the 2004 US Olympic basketball team. Lots of talent, but no chemistry or heart.
Good point. Timmy and RJ lost to Manu. That must be what the chemistry issues stem from.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
It’s interesting. . . . when I went to the open scrimmage, Tim and RJ had clearly become friends. They sat together on the bench, talked and laughed together the whole time, and later, when Rage emceed the three-point shootout that TImmeh won, there was a lot of goofy, amiable interplay between them. They seemed to be the same way through the first several games of the season, too.
I’ve stopped paying attention, so I can’t say whether they still have the same demeanor toward each other. I’ll have to watch for that tomorrow.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
I haven’t given up yet, but this team should be past some of the early excuses of new players and gelling etc… When is Pop going to call them on their lack of emotion/execution and go Serbian? In the past, if Tony or Manu would have turned the ball over because of sloppy play, it seems like Pop would have chewed them out good. This year he just shrugs. There doesn’t seem to be a sense of urgency and yet a fourth of the season has almost passed.
Pop did pull both Tony & Hill at one point on consecutive plays for getting beat. I thought that was funny to some degree and his own way of making them play defense.
Yeah I know which part you are talking about. In fact the jazz commentators were wondering if Pop had implemented something about ‘turnovers and yer out’ rule. So Tony and Hill kept swapping for each other for a coupla plays. Then Manu or somebody else turned it over and Pop just ran out of bodies and shrugged.
Should i start looking for another team? I agree with ATS, i watch basketball and enjoy SA because it’s a form of entertainment and a escape from the reality yet everytime i see them play, i just end up pissed off..=(
What kind of question is that? How can you even consider switching teams because we’re at .500?
Meh.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
How can you even consider switching teams, period, actually.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Damn, can’t you guys sense sarcasm? That was my whole premise. Your team is supposed to make you feel good. Not shitty. I have enough shitty in my life and I don’t need more. LD, weren’t you originally a Bulls fan? Isn’t that kind of the same thing? You switched teams.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 8, 2009 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
I was a Jordan fan (Jordan-Pippen fan), and followed the league through highlight reels.
When you pick a team, you stick to it. Besides, there’s nothing better than sticking with your crappy team through the bad days and hang in there till they win it all once more.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
But, you picked Jordan because he was a winner who was fun to watch. He made you feel good. Being a Jordan fan back then was the biggest bandwagon. That’s why people bandwagon. They want to feel good when they watch sports. Kids are the ultimate bandwagoners because they are just choosing their teams. So they are going to choose somebody who makes them feel good.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 8, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
Argh. I should be sleeping…
It’s not that simple. First, Jordan’s Bulls were more or less the only thing that made it all the way to Argentina on a regular basis. Second of all, I held no allegiances and Jordan was the GOAT and the Bulls kept winning amazing games. It’s not the same. (Besides, afterwards I enjoyed the Rockets, and even followed Robinson’s Spurs for a while.)
But when you pick a team, you pick a team for good, for better or worse. It’s stronger than a marriage, because there’s no divorce there. My children will be Independiente fans from the day they are born to the day I die. And if there’s an afterlife, they’d better not switch teams where I can see it.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
But Wayne, as a kid, you are not really ‘choosing’. You have no option but be enthralled by the glittering thingy. When going to my first bball camp in 6th grade and then coupla years later(when literally the antenna’s and stars aligned to bring nba finals basketball to india) watching the ultimate player make the game magic, its really not a question of bandwagon at that point. Its just magic. (Also, never really had the chance to see the good players in the rest of the league back then. So only saw highlights of playoff teams.)
Its probably similar for a kid growing up in some corner of the world. He has no choice but to be a fan of Kobe or Lebron etc coz thats all they get to see. But your point stands that the players made me ‘feel’ good.
My point is, I really had no ‘feelings’ towards a team. Just basketball and Jordan and Pippen and the magic happening.
we both understand our own sentiments. but at the end of the day, you will still love the spurs no matter what. but there’s always a pleasure in winnings. just like when you have a son. would you be more proud and happy if your son is successful?
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Dec 9, 2009 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
I hear there’s room on the Suns bandwagon. Because everyone around here jumped off a few days ago.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
I became a Spurs fan when Timmeh got to town, so once he retires, I’ll probably jump ship to the Nuggets. It’ll just be easier that way. ;-)
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
I’ll be a Spurs fan til’ the bitter end!
::deliberately avoiding looking toward a neighboring state to the northeast::
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Or Houston. Good thing there isn’t an NBA team in New Mexico.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 8, 2009 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, those Nuggets lost to the Bobcats TOO KNIGHT.
The Lakers "Too big, too strong, too long, too good."
by olf on Dec 8, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions
Stress is causing this tribe to fight amonst itself…………I wonder if it is a small representation of what is going on in the front office and locker room……..? maybe
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Dec 9, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
Stress is causing this tribe to fight amonst itself
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
I’m going to blame the weather until it freaking warms up. -14 should not be a valid temperature.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
What, don’t you enjoy it when spit turns to ice before it hits the ground?
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
If that really happens, that would be waaay cool. Imagine if you tried ma……….
Stop.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Dec 9, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
nice, ritualistic electronic tribicide
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Dec 9, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Plus, Suns over Mavs 50-49 at the half.
Who would you rather? (win the game, I mean)
The Lakers "Too big, too strong, too long, too good."
I know we have to remain optimistic. I know we have to look at the bright side. I know it’s a process. I know it takes time. I know the new players need time to adjust. I know the team’s still trying to figure things out. I know the Spurs usually start slow(ish) and then grab the division lead in the end. I know Pop usually only takes the games seriously during the rodeo trip and after the All-Star break.
But when can I start to worry? When we’re 21-20 at the break? When we get to a double digit losing streak? When we start challenging Min and NJ for the worst team in the league? I need to know exactly when to drink the Kool Aid, and/or start changing my wallpaper to Slamball teams. My NBA philosophy is Spurs or nothing. Please, oh please, don’t let me settle for nothing.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Dec 8, 2009 9:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
My NBA philosophy is Spurs or nothing.
This has been my mantra for 16+ years and running. The Spurs can run roughshod over the entire league or circle the drain to the very bottom and I’ll still cheer for ’em.
Like many other readers here, I endured watching the dessicated corpse of Dominique Wilkins lead the Spurs in scoring, so this 9-9 record isn’t going to have me reach for the bottle just yet. That’s doesn’t mean this entire situation doesn’t suck any less, but we’ve endured FAR WORSE, folks.
"...and programmed to save the day!"
by transgojobot on Dec 8, 2009 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
LIVE BY THE 3, DIE BY THE 3 – THIS IS NOT COLLEGE BASKETBALL!!!! UGH!!!!!
Jazz Game - Us 9-22, Them 7-11
Nugs —Us 7-21, Them 4-9- Us 2-16, Them 4-18
Celtics -
Jazz — Us 4-20, Them 4-9
that sums up my frustration –
answers to the frustration – Focus on the PAINT and make RJ a primary scorer
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
TASTY PAINT RECIPE
1 Futer HOF PowerForward
2 Guards who drive to the basket + 1s
1 Center rebounds/blocks/putbacks
1 SF for outside jumpers
BAKE FOR 82 GAMES
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Dec 9, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
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