PTR Quick Cap: The Sky Is High And I Can't Touch It
by LatinD on Dec 3, 2009 10:50 PM CST
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PrintTonight the Spurs lost to the Celtics 83-90. All in all, it was a good game, one I'm sure I would've enjoyed if my sports happiness weren't so closely tied to the fate of the guys in black and white. There was (some) defense, hustle, bloody noses, a monster unleashed and even a close 4th quarter that kept us hoping against hope.
This is a game that I'm sure that we (and by "we" I mean PTR, 48MoH, Project Spurs, everyone) will analyze to death in the following days, but in the meantime let's try to take the good out of our first real test of the season.
There's a short but intense rant after the jump. You're welcome to join us and vent at will.
Our first half was downright horrible, an exercise in futility. Our second half started just as bad, continued even worse, and finally threatened to thrust us into a bottomless pit of despair until our second unit (led by one DeJuan Blair and Tony Parker) brought us back within arm's reach. In the end, just like for the entire game, we couldn't overcome the 10-point cushion they built during the first quarter.
There will be a full recap tomorrow, but in the meantime let me list the more obvious positives and negatives of this loss.
Why so negative?
Richard Jefferson has already played 16 games as a Spur, and beyond a couple of good-to-great nights, he's shown very little. He looks lost at times, unsure of his role, timid. Even worse, he makes very lazy passes that often lead to turnovers and easy points for our opponents. Some recommend trying to get him going early, considering he's used to being the franchise player, center of his team's universe and be-all end-all of their basketball hopes. Personally, I think he should just stop being a ninny and play. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that the player with the second highest salary in the team needs to adapt to that team's needs, and not otherwise.
Basketball Reference describes four factors that determine the outcome of a game (this is something I believe Graydon Gordian always looks at when recapping games): shooting, rebounds, turnovers and free throws. It was the last two that spelled our doom. We had 18 turnovers, and some of them were ridiculous, symptoms of an overall sloppy offense. There's also no excuse for our free-throw percentage - in a close game like this one, shooting 7-17 from the line simply won't cut it.
Last but not least, I would like to mention the inexplicable decision by Popovich to keep Manu out of the game in the 4th quarter, until the very last desperate gamble. At this point I'm almost hoping that Manu told him that he wasn't feeling quite right, because choosing a cold Mason over him is madness.
Still standing
As inconsequential as RJ was, Blair was essential. Every one of his best qualities was on full display tonight: his soft hands, his relentless approach to rebounding, even his beyond-his-years post moves. His impressive outing is even more meaningful when you consider what kind of start he had to overcome: in his first minutes on court he tried to grab a defensive rebound with only one hand and scored a beautiful layup on the Celtics' hoop. It was that kind of night for the Spurs, but Blair didn't let it get him down for long.
Blair moves without thought: when he's on, everything's automatic for him. Grab ball in a position to score, turn and shoot the layup. My flawed description compartmentalizes something that Blair performs with a fluidity that can't be taught - Blair is a Brownian ratchet in the flesh, and his continuous effort energized the team tonight and was nearly enough to carry us to victory.
Our bench as a whole did its parts - it was the starters that failed to rise to the occasion. They'll have their revenge.
Your three stars
- 3rd. Tim Duncan - His 6 TOs were daggers that gave the Celtics their 10-point lead back after our BAM had put us within 3, halfway through the second quarter. Regardless, 8-17 FGs, 16 points and 15 rebounds (7 offensive!) in 32 minutes prove that even in his off nights, Tim always plays well enough to get the team in a position to win the game.
- 2nd. Tony Parker - He had some painful TOs and misplays in the fourth, but looking at the boxscore you also notice he had quite a game. 8-15 FGs, 4 rebounds, 7 assists and only 2 TOs, good for 17 points. Tony Be Good.
- 1st. DeJuan Blair - The beast was beastly tonight, shooting 9-11 FGs and grabbing 11 rebounds (5 offensive), 2 blocks and a team-high +10 +/-. He also did all that in only 21 minutes, too. What else can I say about this guy?
That's it, fellows. You can start panicking now if you want.
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Maybe its time to Bring RJ off of the bench. Feed him the ball early and often off of the pine. It is still early in the season though. But damn, his lack of productivity in the other areas….
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
RJ needs to be a 1st or 2nd Option – for those who say he has to adapt – it is the essence of leadership to play to people’s strengths and weaknesses – obviously RJ is weak when not the 1st or 2nd option so maybe Pop should experiment with making him the 1st option to see what happens………TD can always play whether he is 1st or 5th option – RJ is not a role player he is a franchise player
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
I think the problem is that Parker and RJ just don’t play well together. RJ had his best games when Parker was out, primarily because Manu would get him the ball in good position to score. It’s the same issue that the team has when Parker and Manu are on the court together. Parker dominates the ball, unless Pop calls on Manu to run the offense. The main difference is that Manu will do lots of other little things when Parker is ignoring him. RJ not so much.
I think Pop needs to try to work on getting a Manu, RJ, Hill backcourt on the court more often than he has.
2-16 on threes.
7-17 on free throws.
Look no further for the culprit. By all rights, the Spurs should have won this game – they just didn’t make the shots they should have. Yes, I know there were a lot of turnovers, but that could have been overcoming if the Spurs had made some fucking shots.
Oh, and….. BLAAAAAIIIIIRRRRR!!!!
The Spurs - now playing defense again!
btw, RJ is going to turn things around. I’m not worried about him, he’s just not used to exerting as much effort on defense as he is for the Spurs. His shot will come around.
The Spurs - now playing defense again!
Let’s trade Tim and Tony so RJ can be comfortable with the offense.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Dec 3, 2009 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
This was RJ’s best defensive night. He gave Pierce a lot of trouble. It helped that his job was to stay on Pierce so he didn’t have to do a lot of rotating.
On offense he’s gone from iffy to awful.
Thats wonderful. But he still put up Udoka-like offensive numbers…
Actually,I just looked at the stats, and Pierces numbers were even MORE horrendous. So good for RJ if he managed to shut Pierce down like that.
...Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is forty five.
Sometimes it doesn’t hurt to admit that another team is better than the Spurs. This isn’t just directed at you LD but it’s annoying when Spurs fans look at all the things that coulda’ and shoulda’ gone our way and then determine we should have won the game. The C’s didn’t play great either but they found a way to win, despite allowing 20 offensive rebounds, their best player going 2-9 and their best shooter going 0-4 from threes.
Had the game been a complete reversal of what actually happened the headline here would be “Spurs get it done with defense”. But since it was the Spurs that were held to 83pts we ignore the fact that the Celtics are a good defensive team and maybe they had something to do with our ineptness.
Just call me The Profit
I understand what you’re saying, and maybe their defense was so good that we couldn’t get anything going, and when we did, they always challenged shots.
But how do you explain our missed FTs? KG’s trash talking made us miss?
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Dec 4, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with you that we have to give the Greenies some credit. They’re one of the best defensive teams in the league, and grinded out the win.
Still, it’s not so bad to look for silver linings in this loss:
1) We are still integrating a lot of new guys. Let’s trust the Pop when he says this is going to take some time and won’t be easy.
2) We found out that we can hang with an elite team, although I’m still kinda pessimistic since we’re at home — what would’ve happened if this game was played on the road?
3) DeJuan Blair and his big game is for real.
4) The Celts haven’t experienced Manu Ginobili in the clutch, something which I hope will work to our advantage.
5) Antonio McDyess is much better than what he showed tonight. He’ll come through for us when it counts the most.
6) I thought George Hill played a good game, but didn’t get too many minutes. Maybe Pop wanted Roger to get some burn under pressure-filled circumstances, perhaps fine-tune that clutch shooting, if you will.
by silverandblack_davis on Dec 4, 2009 12:43 AM CST up reply actions
For what it’s worth, we lost to them at home last year and beat them in the Garden. Maybe we can hope for a repeat?
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
But I didn’t say the Spurs were better, did I? And sorry, but for all the great defense they played, we had some stupid turnovers and missed a lot of wide, wide open shots. It’s part of the game, I agree, but we can fix those.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Sorry about that, this one is on me. Well, hope there’s no hard feelings.
:)
"Under the tutelage....of Randy Tutelage"
It’s hero or goat. Not hero time for you just yet.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Dec 4, 2009 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, you too. Although Hipuks changed his avatar, changed his sig, and re-introduced the Unlucky Louse of Death, so he got it worse.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Dec 4, 2009 12:44 AM CST up reply actions
The louse will get us a win, just you wait. The louse will come through.
"Under the tutelage....of Randy Tutelage"
I’d prefer the Dogo to the louse, thanks.
by silverandblack_davis on Dec 4, 2009 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
Well then maybe he should write a movie about it and star in it and become the year’s breakout star.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Good idea, but the Samurai Fishes with Megan Fox will have to be filmed first.
by silverandblack_davis on Dec 4, 2009 12:50 AM CST up reply actions
I heard that Michael Bay passed on it, but Roland Emmerich is interested. . . .
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
No way? I was just told that Jerry Bruckheimer and the Wachowski brothers wanted it, too. Wow.
by silverandblack_davis on Dec 4, 2009 12:54 AM CST up reply actions
Of course there are hard feelings, FishBoy. The only reasons I’m not coming to California to beat the crap out of you with a Louisville slugger are:
1. I don’t own a Louisville slugger.
2. I now get to drink during the games.
Boy, you’re lucky, you crazy Californian.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
So now you get to drink because of me and you’re mad at me? I’m did you a huge favor.
"Under the tutelage....of Randy Tutelage"
Did you have fun at the blowout?
(What’s it like to go to a blowout? I forget. . . .)
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Actually, I did have a good time since I took my dad. He regaled me with stories of Wilt and Russell in playoff series between the Warriors and the Celtics. He also talked about the Big O, West, Baylor, etc. He saw all of those guys play in person. Kinda cool. But the game was actually boring. The Moonmen had it in hand from halfway through the 1st. Lips is still an idiot.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
Oh, awesome that your dad is a fan and saw the greats.
I have one niece who shares my basketball jones. And she’s 11, so she doesn’t really have any stories yet.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Well, I’m hoping you take her to see the Spurs, so she can have those stories, especially since Timmeh, Tony, and Manu will probably be considered as greats in the future. My dad is the reason I’m a basketball fan.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
Had the fourth quarter resembled the first, I would be feeling pretty awful right now. But driving home, I felt oddly sanguine about this loss. Bogans, McDyess, and especially Jefferson could be showing us more, that’s true, but I’m not ready to panic. As for Manu (I hope I don’t get told to fuck off and die for saying this), I don’t think he looked good tonight. He wasn’t effective defensively, he seemed to be lacking some quickness, he turned the ball over 3 times, and yes, he made some shots, but his misses were BIG misses—like, airball misses. Maybe it’s just rust. I don’t know. Romaju was certainly rusty, too, but he had obviously been given the green light, and he took the shots he was supposed to take. He didn’t make ‘em, but he didn’t shoot any airballs, and he only turned the ball over once. So Pop may have had his reasons for benching Manu toward the end. Please don’t hurt me. I was surrounded by freakin’ Celtics fans for the whole game. It’s already been a hard night.
Blair was just awesome in the fourth. he made it, however briefly, a fun game. My throat hurts from yelling.
In any case, I still have confidence in this team. I’m very pleased with what we did on the defensive end. Now if we can just get all the offensive and defensive moving parts working at the same time. . . .
Ooooh, speaking of tough losses, did y’all see what just happened to Golden State?
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
I liked my seats a lot—I was in section 116, row 25. Great angle.
Golden State was up by 10 with 6 minutes to go, Houston made a 12-0 run and took the lead. They traded baskets until, with 2.1 seconds to go and Houston up 111 to 109, Golden State inbounds to Monta Ellis who then TRAVELS. End of game. Ouchie.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
That one crazy three Mason launched really killed what momentum we had. I think the Spurs were down to 4 or 6, and he just goes up and shoots a three, no effort to move the ball around, to find a better shot, even to run down the clock a little. Just shooting a three. I still don’t understand what he was thinking, considering his bad shooting prior to that.
"Under the tutelage....of Randy Tutelage"
I know which one you mean. It was the last of the 3 shots he took. I’m just guessing here, but I think that because he had only taken two shots (and as I recall, both of those nearly went in), he felt like he still had a good chance at making it. Had it gone in, he would have been 1 for 3, which isn’t at all unreasonable.
I like what someone suggested in one of the game threads—start Mason so he has a chance to get his shot going.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Without even looking at anything I can tell you that the Spurs were down 4 with 2:11 left in the game when he shot that shot. I actually thought it was a pretty good shot to take. BUT, it didn’t go in. The 2:11 may be what I looked up and saw when the Celtics were bringing the ball up court, but it was really close.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 4, 2009 1:19 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I actually thought he should have taken it. Just like the announcer said, that’s his game and it was open. It’s not his fault Pop is using him instead of Manu.
The Spurs - now playing defense again!
More on this in my recap, but I think it was Manu’s fault.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 4, 2009 1:24 AM CST up reply actions
That was a preemptive meh, by the way. You may win me over with excellent reasoning, charts and flow diagrams.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Yeah. I didn’t mind that shot either. Those are the kind of shots Mase takes and makes. He needs to recharge his puppy mojo.
And as good as we were doing, it did kill the momentum when he missed. Its good. The team learned. Maybe they needed to go inside and hope for a call and ‘and one’. Thats really Pop’s call. I can’t really say which is better. The 3 is easier if you can guarantee it and a dagger to the other team.
For what it’s worth, Manu was constantly stretching his leg while on the bench. I couldn’t tell if it was bothering him, or if a little paranoia has set in. When he was in the game, it did not seem to bother him. He did get winded pretty quickly, and I think he may have a cold. He also got clobbered on the side of the head and in the nose.
Manu is so competitive and so driven. It breaks my heart to see him tentative or worried.
Plus he’s just such a nice guy. I want things to go wekk for him.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Oy, I’m tired. “Wekk” = “well.”
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Who was it that said “ogiti?” I’ve yet to use that word. Pretty cool, if you ask me.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
Looks like I need to go find video of AI’s press conference. . . .
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Wow. Well, having watched that, I don’t think those are crocodile tears. That is, I think he’s sincere. The problem is that I’m not sure he understands that it’s the man he is now that has to change in order to really help a team.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Quit stealing shit from my recap. That classic Pop GOML opener was to me. Dammit.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 4, 2009 1:38 AM CST up reply actions
“He had some painful TOs […] you also notice he had […] only 2 TOs”
Those 2 must have been really bad.
Let’s not talk about Mase.
Again, something I’ll bring up in the recap but one of RJ’s turnovers was Tony’s fault. Additionally, when Rondo knocked the ball out of bounds at the end of the game with 26 seconds left, they called it a block and I think it should have been a steal and a turnover on Tony. I’d give TP a good solid 4 turnovers at least.
In fact, Mason’s only turnover is when he caught a Tony pass out of bounds because TP threw it so high he had to jump and when he landed his foot was on the line. So, I give him 5.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 4, 2009 1:57 AM CST up reply actions
That should read “when Rondo knocked the ball out of bounds off Tony…”
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 4, 2009 1:57 AM CST up reply actions
so in you’re recap, I’m guessing one of the keys to the game would be the celtic’s win of the Parker Rondo match-up? Rondo was huge for them. Parker, not so huge for us, but effective. It should’ve been the other way around. But at least we got beat by a 55 million dollar man you know.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
What Wayne said. But I was tired last night, so I didn’t make much sense…
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I know it didn’t show up on the stat sheet but I feel that Matt Bonner was a beast tonight. He must have assisted on 10-15 rebounds in addition to the 9 he pulled down himself. And for about 3 possessions the two red heads were guarding each other and it was an impresisve display of awkward white-guy basketball. They dualed with strange fade-away floaters and non-athletic displays of veteran basketball savvy. The NBA it’s FANTASTIC…
STAMPLER'S THOUGHTS ON POP'S COACHING:
He really needs to go buy himself an ice cream cone.
I said before the year began that after health, the biggest obstacle to us winning the title would be Pop, and I stand behind those comments. As bad as we played and as terribly as we shot from threes and FTs, we blew a winnable game thanks to The Superfluous G.
Less RJ and Mace, more Manu and Hill, and that there is a Dub, my friends.
/Bashes Pop’s SUV with a nine iron.
Give a man a chicken and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to chicken and he'll call you crazy and question your command of the English language.
I agree with you ,butI honestly don’t think Pop wanted to win this game too much, and I stand behind him.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
Granted, I haven’t finished watching the 4th quarter yet, and Pop probably did pull his usual lineup shenanigans, but Pop didn’t shoot 7-17 from the FT line (41.2%) and Pop didn’t shoot 2-16 from 3 and Pop didn’t commit 18 turnovers. There is plenty of blame to go around – the players need to take some. Personally, I hope the Spurs take it out on the Nuggets.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
This is probably a good time to bring up that I made a deal with the devil to trade a loss to Boston for wins against Denver and @ Utah (who it could be important that we split the season series with). I thought two good west wins were worth more than one reasonable east loss. Denver is also the first home game I won’t be at so it was a huge sacrifice knowing I’d have to sit there through that Boston loss, and not watch the Denver game where we destroy them. I’ll be in Dallas at the Big 12 championship where my Horns are playing for a national title game appearance. Hopefully, that is a reasonable excuse.
Very reasonable deal, Blase. If we go 2-1 in this stretch, I’d be happy. Did you include a stomping of the Huskers or are you hoping Texas can take care of that on their own?
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
Yeah, that will happen no matter what. My friend asked me if I wanted Florida or Alabama, and I said I didn’t care because my teams have an incredible record in winning finals games if they make it to them.
Pop
Much to digest, but one point on Pop’s non-use of the NBA’s best closer: when the game was still in reach at the 3:43 mark, Pop did not insert Manu after the timeout. But when he absolutely needed a play at the :29 second mark, he puts him in AND HE MAKES THE PLAY. WTF is that about?
Why does everyone keep saying Rage is a franchise player? First of all, he’s just NOT. Timmeh is franchise, so is Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and a handful of others. RJ is freakish athleticism and a pretty steady jumper. (and hopefully good defense)
This guy was the third option (or maybe the 4th behind Kenyon Martin) in New Jersey for SEVEN years behind players like Kidd, Vinc Carte, and Kerry Kittles. The only time he was EVER the first option was last year in Milwaukee when everybody was INJURED. He really should not have trouble adjusting and needs to suck it up and play. Enough talk about how he’s a “franchise” player."
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -Willy Wonka
Kerry Kittles. Haven’t heard that name in a while. . . .
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
by Lauri on Dec 4, 2009 1:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
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