PtR QuickCap: Spurs Destroy Wolves 117-99, Manu Ginobili is All-Powerful
by Tim C. on Dec 29, 2009 11:01 PM CST
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Print[UPDATE: added video of Manu's behind the back pass to Blair]
Yeah, that was pretty nice. An 18-point win in a game that had the potential to be a tremendous letdown is always a good thing.
Want to know what else is a good thing? Manu Ginobili is back to being Manu Ginobili. That man simply dominated the Wolves tonight. If not for Pop's minute-watching ways, he likely would have finished with a triple double.
But it wasn't just Manu. The Spurs ran a clinic in team passing, to go along with 8 steals and 7 blocked shots. All 4 of the team's "stars" had great performances, along with the new starting power forward, and the lone designated 3-point shooter remaining in uniform. So what if it was the T-Wolves? Let's give them the praise they deserve after the jump.
Box Score | Canis Hoopus | Yahoo Recap
First Half
The Spurs got off to a rough start, seeming to not take the young, talented T-wolves starters seriously. Especially on defense. They were even down by 6 points late in the first quarter, before Pop called timeout and ripped into them. After that, the Spurs came out and started challenging everything. It's amazing what getting some stops on the defensive end can do for your offense. It's also amazing what Ginobili can do when he's on. Manu and Money Mase brought the Spurs back quickly with 3-point shooting and generally great playmaking on the offensive end, to go along with the better defense played in the last few minutes of the first quarter. The Spurs ended the quarter up by 5.
In the second quarter, the Spurs blew the game wide open with great team offense. Tony, Manu, Roger(early in the quarter) and Richard all did their part, leading the team to a 37-point explosion in the quarter. The Spurs' defense was still playing well in the quarter, even though the pace of the game increased dramatically. Despite scoring 52 points in the first 24 minutes, the Wolves only shot 39% during that timeframe. Here, have some highlights, and be sure to check out the sequence from 0:42 - 0:45 for sheer amazingness.
Second Half
After intermission, the Spurs continued the onslaught, if at a slower pace. There were lots of great passes inside to Blair, but he couldn't seem to finish any of the shots(seriously, he should have had 20 points tonight, if he just made his layups). Blair did, however, make 5 free throws in a row, seeming to justify Chip Engelland's recent work with him. The Spurs won the 3rd quarter less impressively than the first two, 23-21.
The 4th quarter opened with Rage making 3-pointers on back-to-back possessions. The offense then branched out to everyone else on the floor, but Manu assisted on 4 of the Spurs's first 6 baskets of the quarter. This gave him 10 assists for the game, despite all those misses by Blair and others that he was passing to. Roger also continued his long-range bombing, and ended up shooting 4-7 from downtown. At the 5-minute mark, Pop pulled the plug, putting Malik Hairston, Theo Ratliff, and Marcus Haislip into the game. All 3 of them would score, giving the Spurs 12 players who scored on the night. That's right, every single Spur in uniform tonight scored.
Update: Here's NBA.com's assist of the night, and quite possibly of the year:
Random Observations
The Spurs finished with 32 assists on 41 field goals, meaning that a phenomenal 78% of their made shots were assisted. Amazingly, that number, along with the Spurs' point total, could have been even better if some guys had simply made easy, open shots.
Despite giving up 99 points, the Spurs defense only allowed Minnesota to shoot 39.6% on the game. Not bad, not bad at all.
Stars of the Game
3. Tim Duncan - Timmy had a quiet game, compared to the incredible streak he went on recently. But when you're the best big man in the league, "quiet" means 17 points, 10 rebounds, and 2 blocks.
2. Richard Jefferson - RJ was hitting his jump shots, but the real reason he's here is because he was aggressive from the first few minutes of the game. He was also aggressive on defense, getting 2 blocks(the box score only credits him with 1, but he definitely got at least 2) and challenging many other shots. RJ finished with 24 points, 6 rebounds and 3 assists to go with those blocks.
1. Manu Ginobili - There's a reason Manu is the average Spurs fan's favorite player, and PtR's patron saint. Manu was everywhere in this game, and made all of his teammates look better. He put on a show the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time with his passing, and was causing havoc for the Wolves on the defensive end as well. 14 points, 10 assists, 9 rebounds, 3 steals, and only 1 turnover make this easily his best all-around performance of the season. Welcome back, Manu.
Honorable Mentions: Tony Parker, Roger Mason, DeJuan Blair
_____________________________________________________
Also, check out ESPN's Daily Dime tomorrow - Tim Varner has promised to write some things about Manu there as well.
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Malik Hairston played better than RJ. MH should be there instead of RJ in stars of the game.
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
uhh…. okay I’ll agree. I really don’t like RJ much.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
by the little o on Dec 29, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
Yay!
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50
by theonlyromeo on Dec 31, 2009 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
Great recap Tim. It’s crazy how this was Manu’s best game of the season despite him having 37 or so against the raptors when Timmy and Tony were out. Manu really is the heart of the team, and when he’s on, he’s pumping blood to all of our organs.
Despite how great of a game this was though, I will be a party pooper and mention that our starting line-up is still not where it should be. We let the T-Wolves, yes, the T-Wolves be ahead of us by 6 or so before our bench came in and we went on a run. This will not happen against the good teams. We still need to figure out how are starting line-up could be better.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
our* not are. argh.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
by the little o on Dec 29, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
starting Finley and Bonner when they are healthy wouldn’t be the worst thing ever or Mason and Bonner…they are all low turnover guys who know how to play very well with Timmy and Tony
this team is the freakin marianas trench.
and I’m not saying Bonner is the best player or anything or should get starter’s minutes….i’m just saying the team could benefit from him starting the game and getting his 15-20 minutes a little earlier
I agree. Having someone who knows the team coming off the bench is a huge asset (just as long as we use him properly).
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 29, 2009 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
totally agree BlaseE, shit I will probably never disagree with you because you will probably rainbow me with bunch of stats, but still… starting line-up is what’s missing as far as I can see. I have not F’en clue what marianas trench is, but I’m liking it. Please be a bit more detailed so people like me can know what you’re talking about. Thanks.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
by the little o on Dec 30, 2009 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
The marianas trench is the lowest point on earth that can be reached without digging. It’s actually underwater and is deeper than Mount Everest is tall by a couple thousand feet.
In other words, THIS TEAM IS DEEP!!!
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -Willy Wonka
You’re welcome. Terrific analogy. I love analogies, and metaphors and similes.
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -Willy Wonka
thanks rich town.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
by the little o on Dec 30, 2009 12:41 AM CST up reply actions
cool, thanks for letting me know. Sorry I’m not smart enough to understand what you were talking about with the marianas trench, but now I totally understand and agree. Tonight was such a lovely win.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
by the little o on Dec 30, 2009 12:40 AM CST up reply actions
our starting line-up is still not where it should be
I agree we are going to have to do something about the starters. They were out played for the first 10 mins of this game. To me it looks like Bogans is not playing as well as expected for a defensive stopper starting the game. He should be a lot more aggressive on his double teams in the post. But at this point the only other person to play in that spot, without throwing the entire bench out of whack would be Manu or Finley. Manu is doing a much better job coming off the bench and he is probably used to it after all this time. So in the meantime I guess we will have to live with Bogans until Finley comes back.
Manu played like he just finished off a six pack of Red Bull before tip off. That was an impressive game from him.
No Bonner and we are 5-1. Hmmmmm…
I think the Miami game(when he’ll match up against Wade) could be Bogans’ Waterloo as a starter. If he can slow down Wade, he’ll have proven his worth. If not, it’ll be time for either Hill, Manu, or Roger to move into the starting 5. Keith got less minutes tonight than anyone else who player prior to garbage time, but that may have just been due to the breakneck pace of the game.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
Keith got less minutes tonight than anyone else who player prior to garbage time, but that may have just been due to the breakneck pace of the game.
There was not a really a point to him going back in but I agree about the pace. Pop prefers Hill on defense in up-tempo games (and I agree). Bogans is best against the 2-3 spot shooters and half-court play. Another note: I noticed Bogans started too far off his man at the start but got things going on defense after Pop ripped into everybody.
Wade requires quite a bit of communication and execution on rotations. Miami isn’t that great with assists and crashing the offensive glass (poor rebounding overall actually) so the Spurs need to capitalize on that. Keep pressure on Wade and try to force him to pass it (3 TO/game) and dominate the paint.
Thursday will be a good test to see how the defensive chemistry is shaping up.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
Last six teams have a combined record of 73 – 112…. Hmmmm
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 6:43 AM CST up reply actions
combined record of 73 – 112
True, most of the teams we beat do have bad records, but we didn’t play defense well against teams with bad records before. Now all of a sudden we look like we are actually tough to score on.
How would you explain since Bonner is out, no team has score 100 pts on us yet?
It appears to me that, with no Bonner, we are playing better defense and the offense looks a bit smoother. Yeah I know it is too easy to blame Bonner but him being MIA is the only thing different in the equation.
No. Its because our team is playing better as unit. More time means more familiarity. More familiarity mean better production. When Bonner and Finley come back, there will be a slow integration to bring them back into the mix and the team will be better off.
Yeah I know it is too easy to blame Bonner but him being MIA is the only thing different in the equation.
No. It. Isn’t.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t want to see Bonner (or Finley) starting but they are both valuable veterans and offensive weapons. Finley is someone I want coming off the bench come playoffs and I definitely want the Ginger out on the floor when he can’t seem to miss.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
That’s the key. If Bonner is hitting his shots, then Pop plays him. If he’s not, then Pop can sit him. I don’t think Matty will be back in the starting lineup this year.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
I don’t think Matty will be back in the starting lineup this year.
I agree.
I love our current starting lineup but I doubt Pop’s willingness to leave Blair in there come playoff time.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Not to sound harsh. But I don’t think we should never play him unless it is absolutely necessary. He takes the Spurs away from our identity and that is never good. I think we are better winning defensively 95-83 than struggling for an offensive win 107-101.
Remember, our defense will always be there, offense comes and goes. So work on solidifying the defense, and that doesn’t include Bonner.
Do you really think that Blair is right now a better defender than Bonner?
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Yes I do. Because Blair is hard to move. You can shoot over him but you can’t go thru him. Bonner on the other hand you can shoot over him or thru him. He is too light.
If Blair does his work early and keep taller guys out of their sweet spots he could be a great defender, because if they miss, he is a wide body and that helps with his defensive rebounding.
I think if he got the playing time to under stand the defensive rotations better he could be a good defender in our system.
Blair should be harder to move. He was pushed by Love all the time on Tuesday, and it’s happened countless times before.
Blair can improve, he has the tools – Bonner probably can’t. But right now, I don’t think there’s an argument about who’s the better defender among them. At least in my mind there isn’t.
Ah, well. We’re going in circles. We’ll see.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Eh, I wouldn’t compare defenses when it comes to Bonner. He is easily fooled, while the same happens to Blair, but the kid I have noticed is learning fast and sometimes is able to recover and contest with his long arms. Also, Blair has pride.
Just to stir the pot a bit
Also, Blair has pride.
And Bon-Bon doesn’t?
Consider the gun jumped
5 in 10
You think Bon-Bon’s game has ‘pride’? In a game where teams constantly p&r you or constantly draw blocking fouls on you, if he had game ‘pride’ don’t you think he would improve at some point.
I was breaking my head over Blair lack of any defensive knowledge beginning of the season. If you watch games now, you can see the he really has started learning how to defend within his capabilities. My only observation on Blair’s defense right now would be that centers just turnaround and shoot over him easily. I am sure he will figure that part out too based on scouting reports and tendencies of whomever he goes up against.
If your definition of “pride” comes down to “is this player dedicated to getting better” then, I do think Matty’s game has pride.
The dude threw down a running dunk in (some) traffic this year, and broke his hand contesting an outside jumper. Yes, he gets isolated and often owned, but I think he’s better than he was last year and — well, it’s your definition, not mine.
Consider the gun jumped
5 in 10
I don’t think he is ‘better’ than he was last year. I don’t see any new elements to his game, other than Matty deciding to drive a lot more and pass. I don’t have an opinion about the results of those one way or another right now. I will give you that he is being better utilized according to his strengths simply becoz most of our personnel is there and Matty only has to play his niche and is not asked to deliver more than he is capable off. And he has done very well in that so far.
I would compare than with Mason who has decided that he will branch out a bit more from 3pt shooting and ‘forced’ point guard duties. Mase has consistently hit jumpers from specific spots on the floor inside the arc. And he has driven inside to the paint off the same screens without doing the pull up jumper. He has created a nice indecision for anyone guarding him about what they are prepared to give Mase. His release is very quick for defenders to not bother him in this scenario. And on his drives, I will say I have noticed and lauded the decisions Mase has made so far in getting teammates good shots.
Matty, I don’t remember getting excited much so far this season on any of his drives. I do cheer his shooting though. Again, its Pop’s job to use Matty cleverly. Mase at this point, if he can replicate this against tougher teams, then I have reasonable faith in him being money in the post season, even though he also failed miserably last season.
So, to interpret your statement, adding driving and passing to your game in the offseason isn’t enough of an improvement to show pride? What is?
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jan 1, 2010 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
Like I said Wayne, I haven’t made up my mind whether thats an “improvement” or not yet in his game. I don’t remember consistently clapping whenever he forays into the paint and passes out. Think I was pretty clear about that above.
So no. He hasn’t, to me, shown much of an improvement in his versatility. Our team is able to utilize his skills better now coz of everyone being there and Bonner is back to being 3pt specialist.
No. It. Isn’t.
Huh??? Let me see if I understand you.
Bonner goes down and then we come together as a unit defensively. Even if it is only 6 games.
But when Bonner comes back we will get even better, defensively?
That ain’t happening.
When Bonner comes back, the defense will NOT get better. Plus, I think when he gets back, the games will become harder again and we might even lose a couple on the road that we should win.
Simply because… everything in Bonner’s game, the Spurs don’t need in order to win games.
Not to sound like a broken record, but the Spurs need DEFENDERS not shooters. We have a ton of shooters and Bonner is NOT needed on the perimeter taking 3ptrs, we have Manu, Mase, RJ, or Hill for that. We need Bonner to be a rebounder/defender in the paint and he CAN’T do that because that just isn’t his game. So when he comes back we will have trouble if he plays a lot of mins.
Here’s something to think about. I also think the offense runs smoother with Bonner out. Here’s why:
When our shooters are spotting up on the wings, there is an unspoken confidence that if I take this shot there is a Big under the rim that can actually clean up the glass if I miss. Or if I get chase off this shot, there is someone in the paint that I can dish to that can finish strong.
I KNOW this is not there when Bonner is on the floor, because if you ask any shooting guard they will tell you that they prefer the traditional big to be there in the paint just in case. Instead of standing on the wings with them.
That’s funny, I seem to remember the Spurs being #5 in the league last year when Bonner was starting and getting way more minutes than Thomas, Oberto, etc… They started out badly(just as they did this year), but once the new pieces started fitting in better(as is starting to happen again this year, even before Matt was hurt).
I also seem to remember that Bonner led the team in +/- all season long last year, and is among the cumulative +/- leaders on the team again this year. So to say that he actually drags down the offense is pretty absurd.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
That first paragraph should say that they were #5 on defense. Bad proofreading.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
He’s actually played Dirk better than most of our big men (although no one can really stop that fade-away shot when he’s on).
I’ve never been comfortable with him getting over 15 min but he does hustle/make smart plays and those are good qualities in a bench player.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
“big men in previous years”
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
I want to be objective, but its hard to argue with the results. Last year’s Bonner numbers are fool’s good. We all learned that the humiliating way in the first round.
Since Bonner has been out, no team has scored more than 100 on us? That seems pretty good whether the other team was bad or good coz both kind were doing it to us before. I agree Bonner is useful when his shot is falling, but his net visual effect on fans is usually of pain and groaning. I like how the team is defending. If Bonner comes back and mucks it up…
A bunch of people didn’t show up for the first round last year.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 31, 2009 8:12 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that first round humiliation was entirely Bonner’s fault. It wasn’t the fact that our big 3 was down to one and a half, or the fact that none of the other role players on the team showed up, it’s all on Bonner.
Look, I’m not exactly a big Bonner fan, but the level of hate for him on this site lately is astounding, and is starting to defy all logic. He’s coming off the bench this year, and actually improved his play at both ends prior to the injury. I have no problem with that at all – you’re not going to get the kind of production he brings at his price anywhere else.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
Taking things outta context Tim. I find it a little silly to be pointing out to you that I never said the first round exit is on Bonner. I don’t want to argue needless irrelevant things. Bonner showed the lvl he is capable off when pressed upon. Hopefully, we will not be putting Bonner in such uncomfortable situations come post season. But we did learn nonetheless something. That only so much can be expected.
Crunch time is not for Bonner. My post above is from a defensive perspective. Bonner’s positives does not always outweigh the negatives he brings on the court. Its really Pop’s skill to make sure something like that does happen without it crippling our whole game. Anyways, though Bonner can contribute, nobody can convince me that he is vital to our postseason success. Bonner’s strengths right now are ‘corporate knowledge’ and 3pt shooting. Hopefully the playoff rotation core would have gained enough knowledge by then to not necessitate Bonner’s success to be a factor. And we have enough 3pt shooters for everything to not hinge on a one trick pony at any point of the game. If the above are not true, we have bigger problems than Bonner. But I will say this, Bonner always has the ability to singlehandedly cripple us over a period with his defense and decisions. Anyone on the court has.
Somebody can argue Mase is a similar case. My only defense for Mase is, he has prepared this off season and some of it has really shown on the court even when his shot is not going in or not.
you don’t think that Bonner has also prepared this offseason and it has shown on the court?
Not only does Matt dribble and pass better now, but he’s also rebounding with more tenacity this year, both for defensive and offensive rebounds. You’re right, I hope we don’t have to depend on him for the post-season but with the role that he should be given, we shouldn’t have to depend on him, at the very least not as much as we depended on him last year.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
Bonner goes down and then we come together as a unit defensively. Even if it is only 6 games. But when Bonner comes back we will get even better, defensively?
No, you don’t understand.
Its because our team is playing better as unit. More time means more familiarity. More familiarity mean better production. When Bonner and Finley come back, there will be a slow integration to bring them back into the mix and the team will be better off.
But I’m sure your the “world is flat cuz I ain’t falling off” style of thinking makes more sense to you. Simply put… There is no logic to your statement(s).
Bonner, by himself, did not effect the team’s passing. Bonner, by himself, did not make all of the team’s poor decisions on both ends of the floor. Bonner, by himself, did not clang all of the team’s open shots. Bonner, by himself, did not miss a ton of the team’s free throws. Bonner, by himself, did not get out-hustled…. yadda yadda yadda…
When our shooters are spotting up on the wings, there is an unspoken confidence that if I take this shot there is a Big under the rim that can actually clean up the glass if I miss. Or if I get chase off this shot, there is someone in the paint that I can dish to that can finish strong.
I KNOW this is not there when Bonner is on the floor, because if you ask any shooting guard they will tell you that they prefer the traditional big to be there in the paint just in case. Instead of standing on the wings with them.
Bonner is good at setting screens, moving without the basketball, and is out there for that reason because they don’t plan on relying heavily on his rebounding. This is why they brought in Blair, Dice and Theo (but Theo isn’t sparking much confidence). I’m saying he is not the only reason for the team’s troubles and it is beyond foolish to claim so. I’m not saying he needs to play 20+ minutes. I’m saying he is a valuable player off the bench when we need offense. We don’t need Bonner out there when we need the rebounds. We have other players for it but to get rid of him is to get rid of a player with good hustle, good passing skills, valuable offense, and who knows the system. Its silly.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
I think you are just plain talking out of both sides of your mouth. Either Bonner should get mins or he shouldn’t. With me it is no middle ground because you don’t win games that way. In the Playoffs and/or important games you don’t wanna go too deep into your bench, which is where Bonner needs to be, so if he plays you have to take someone off the floor. Who??? And when he comes in, what is he going to be asked to do?
That is the question. We need him to come in and rebound and defend in the paint, that is the priority and he is not going to do that.
If you look at our Championship years we had two players that we no longer have, that played huge roles in our system. Bowen and Horry. If Bonner is going to be the new Horry he has to rebound and defend before he starts stroking the 3 ball. And with Bogans if he is to be the NEW Bowen, he needs to stop somebody or at least make it very difficult to get into the paint.
So if these guys are not doing their role, don’t play em. Find someone else to do it or trade em. To me, it is just that simple. Yes, Bonner hustles and plays hard, but playing hard in the wrong scheme will only make you a tired loser.
Obviously you think there is a spot for Bonner as long as he comes off the bench and plays around 20 mins a game. I disagree.
I think he should only be playing in relief. Sooner or later we will see if you are right or wring. I just hope we don’t lose too many games gambling on Bonner.
Either Bonner should get mins or he shouldn’t. With me it is no middle ground because you don’t win games that way. In the Playoffs and/or important games you don’t wanna go too deep into your bench, which is where Bonner needs to be, so if he plays you have to take someone off the floor. Who??? And when he comes in, what is he going to be asked to do?
That is the question. We need him to come in and rebound and defend in the paint, that is the priority and he is not going to do that.
That makes no sense. You have roles on the team. I told you what the team expects of Bonner. We told you what the team expects of Bonner. The team has stated what they use Bonner for. He goes in and does what they tell him to do. Set screens, shoot threes, and hustle for the loose ball. No one on that damn team has said, “Oh, we got Bonner in there to rebound and shut down the paint.”
Thats just you screaming your tiny little mind out. They brought in players (like I said already) to address rebounding and defense. And like other people have already pointed out, he is not a horrible defender or rebounder. He isn’t great by a long shot but his stats are low because he plays what the team asks him to do.
And with Bogans if he is to be the NEW Bowen, he needs to stop somebody or at least make it very difficult to get into the paint.
He does. He’s been credited for doing a good job all season from the coach, the players, and media. He is never going to be as good as Bowen was. Not many people in the league are or ever will be.
Obviously you think there is a spot for Bonner as long as he comes off the bench and plays around 20 mins a game. I disagree.
Why don’t you read around a bit more… I’m not comfortable with him playing 15 minutes a game. Even though I do like the guy, I have limits on how much I want to see him play (especially if he doesn’t shoot well). I’m going after you because your pinning every damn thing on him in an absurd manner.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
and when it comes to the trend of big men with shooting range (like Dirk) Bonner is actually one of the better defenders to assign to that player.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
Either Bonner should get mins or he shouldn’t. With me it is no middle ground because you don’t win games that way.
That’s crazy talk, GT. Role players don’t get starter minutes, and that doesn’t mean they don’t have a chance to crack the rotation and contribute. With a shooter as good as Bonner, you need to put him out there every night and check how he’s feeling. You just have to.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Role players don’t get starter minutes
Please tell Pop that. He is the one that tried to turn Bonner into a starter.
Can’t we check how Bonner is feeling from the bench? :)
Seriously, I get what you are saying, but going with Bonner even if he hits a couple we tend to give it back on the other end.
He tried to turn Bonner into a starter when we hadn’t any viable options. That changed this year, didn’t it?
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Man. Bonner has a better 3pt % than Manu, Mase, RJ or Hill. That doesn’t count for anything?
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
and doesn’t turn the ball over as much.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
also rebounding isn’t just a job for bigs. When a defensive rebound is up for grabs, unless specifically told not to, the backcourt players need to box out their assignments so that they don’t go swooping in for the damn rebound. How many times have we seen a guard or SF come screaming in to steal the ball? Think Portland. The team, as a whole, need to attack the ball.
Not just look at the damn thing. Something even Duncan has been guilty a few times of this year.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
This sounds like a bunch of excuses to me, you can either rebound or you can’t.
If you think Bonner is a good rebounder then there is nothing more to say. When he comes back, Pop will put him back out there he will get abused, we will struggle and maybe win a few games. Hopefully!
Or Pop will recognize without Bonner the defense has looked a lot better, the offense can manage fine without him jacking up 3ptrs and we will continue to win games.
What players, as a team, supposed to be doing… sounds like excuses?
You blaming everything on Bonner…
thats a damn excuse.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 31, 2009 1:26 AM CST up reply actions
Also....
If you think Bonner is a good rebounder then there is nothing more to say.
Why don’t you read around a bit more…
And like other people have already pointed out, he is not a horrible defender or rebounder. He isn’t great by a long shot
….where did I say “good?” He just isn’t horrible like you wildly claim him to be. We’ve thrown up stats for it. Nope, not good enough. Pop experimented with him in the starting rotation (4-5 games), it didn’t work so he moved him out. He has played well off the bench (especially on offense) but apparently (somehow) he is at fault for everyone’s mistakes.
I guess that is an excuse too though.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 31, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions
The numbers dont lie and I know the draw backs of plus/minus statistics but it means what it means. While Bonner is on the floor, the Spurs have scored 113 more points than the opposition, which leads the team. In addition, the points allowed per possession when Bonner is on the floor is 1.06 enough to best Manu, Finley, Blair and Mason.
Before you come back at me saying that Im suggesting benching Manu for Bonner, know that I understand that Bonner has the privilege of playing a lot of minutes with Duncan and Parker in the line up while Manu often has to play with the second unit. Still, only with a quick glance we can see that Bonner is beneficial to the team and therefore has a role in it, albeit limited we would hope.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
Damn, GhosT, did Bonner marry your youngest daughter or something?
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Great recap Tim, but I would’ve like more oogling over Manu (you can never have too much). He looked so dashing out there tonight. Those passes were magic.
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -Willy Wonka
I would’ve like more oogling over Manu (you can never have too much). He looked so dashing out there tonight. Those passes were magic.
So true, he was just magic out there.
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
by the little o on Dec 30, 2009 12:41 AM CST up reply actions
i wasn’t online or didn’t watch the game… by the looks of it, i missed quite a show!
thanks for the recap.
by blackhawkconvoy on Dec 30, 2009 1:07 AM CST reply actions
So far the last 3 games Manu is starting to finally look like Manu. Im not expecting us to see the 08 manu more like the manu from 07 that would get it done but would hit the clutch shots when needed. I notice that his driving to the rim still needs work I think he even stated that himself that he would try to get better at that as the season goes on.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
I really liked what he did out there tonite. The most impressive part of his game was how he didnt turn it over or force anything and made great passes. When Manu just lets the game come to him, he looks great. But then again we did only play the T-wolves so we did what we were supposed to do.
I wanna see how he looks against a much tougher defensive team like the Heat. Dwade will play those passing lanes so he has to be careful with the ball.
Can’t wait.
can someone pls count how many dunks we had?
can someone pls count how many dunks we had?
cuz they say the spurs are boring!
NOT NOW CUZ RJ’S DUNK AND MANU’S ASST AND ACROBATIC PLAYS AND POSSIBLY BLAIRS ACROBATIC LAY UPS WILL MAKE THEM SAY WOW! AND MASE 3PT SHOOTING ON CLUTCH GAMES1
AND TD AND TP’S BRILLIANCE!
AND THE REST OF THE GANG…HOW GOOD THEY ARE….CUZ NOW WE CAN HAVE A BOSTON-L.A. KIND OF WINNING STREAK!20-30 I PRAY!
HOPEFULLY WE WIN AGAINST PLAYOFF TEAMS,ESP THE TOUGH AND ON THE TOP ONES!
SO…GUYS CAN SOMEONE TELL US HOW MANY DUNKS WE HAD?
Need a paper bag to breathe into?
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 6:55 AM CST up reply actions
Throw it down, young tp_09, throw it down!
/Bill Walton
And according to the Dunk-o-Meter at CBSSports.com, the answer to your question is “6.” Not too shabby!
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Holy Hell
We have a player (RJ) in the season top 50!
Woo!
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
And he’s ahead of Kevin Garnett!
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
Five players have more dunks than the Spurs total (56)…
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Great quick recap, Tim. You’re awesome.
I honestly don’t remember another game from Manu that had so many clever, crisp, wonderful passes. Not consistently throughout the entire game. I’m sure there were such games, but still, it shows it’s been a while. This definitely put a smile in my lips today.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
The Spurs barely out-rebounded by the 26th worse rebounding team in the league and the interior defense played very questionable at times.
I was happy to see the backcourt step it up on defense after Pop ripped into them early in the first. If they can continue to improve as they have been doing (still need a ton of work on screens, communication on zone def, and boxing out) over the last few games, I think the rotation of Hill, Bogans, and Manu is going to be huuuge come March and beyond.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 7:29 AM CST reply actions
I was also happy to see our assists at 32 versus the Wolves 11. I originally thought it was a little warped due the Wolves going to the line quite a bit but we actually shoot more FT (didn’t feel like it).
Kudos to Parker for improved passing as well.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 7:35 AM CST up reply actions
Hmm… I thought the Wolves were a Top 5 rebounding team in terms of rebounds per game?
by silverandblack_davis on Dec 30, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
They play at a very high pace, though – that tends to skew the numbers.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
No, I screwed that one up. I thought they were and then I thought the stats confirmed it. I think I read the wrong damn team. They only have a rebounding diff of .1 though so they aren’t as good as their numbers per game indicate (but better than what I previously stated).
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
Love is their leading rebounder but has only played in 14 of their games so far this year. That has to have a huge impact on their overall standings.
I would say so. He is a great rebounder and very productive on the offensive end. Not a great defender against finesse big men or small shooters by any means but he has a long career ahead of him.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
sweet fsm, that fast break and manu assist is a thing of beauty. simply devine.
free george hill!
by sleep research facility on Dec 30, 2009 11:35 AM CST reply actions
I’m sure Tim can get us the SRS ranking, but Hollinger has us as 4th overall and the top Western team for the second day in a row. Lakers drop to 7th.
Made this comment earlier concerning Hollinger’s ranking and our slow improvement.
Out of thenext four games (MIA, WSH, TOR, DET @ 52-69), the two toughest opp are Miami (16-12) and Toronto (15-17 and a SEGABABA). This is the beginning of the end of our cupcake diet…
From there to the end of January they see: Dallas, New Jersey, Lakers, @OKC, @Charlotte, @Memphis, @New Orleans, Utah, Houston, Chicago, Atlanta, Memphis, and Denver.
The Lakers and OKC games are back-to-back and so are the Charlotte and Memphis games. The Spurs play four games in five days and three of those are on the road.
I agree that they’re slowly getting better but January is a tough mid-term. And we better pray they play well and continue to improve because the rodeo road trip is right after that.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 30, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
There are some decent games in that stretch, but it’s not that difficult, especially when you consider Utah through Denver is all at home with not a single day of travel. Obviously there aren’t any back to backs either so they will be having regular practices to gear up for all the travel of the RRT. I’d be shocked and appalled if we lost more than 1 game of the 4 road games prior as well.
Games Under .500: 9 (4 home, 5 road)
Games over .500: 8 (7 home, 1 road)
14-3 or 15-2 is my prediction….that will put us at 32-33 wins and 13-14 wins and a couple games ahead of 2 wins :1 loss pace which is the 54 win mark with the RRT looming. Tough mid-term? I think we are the going to be the ones administering the testing with that many of the good games at home.
To me the real test for this team is the 5 games of the RRT prior to the ASG.
@ Sacramento (playing awesome at home and FIGABABA)
@ Portland (SEGABABA and they own us, 4 straight wins by an average of 12 points)
@ Clippers (eager to show off Griffin against our frontcourt)
@ Lakers (revenge game for January 13th beatdown)
@ Denver (revenge game for January 31st beatdown)
I don’t know….can you fault me for assuming the Spurs should win every single game other than the SEGABABA against Durantula on the road after a beatdown of the Lakers leaves us over-confident and too well rested?
Hey congratulations. That’s quite an impressive streak you’ve got there.
By the way, the Celts lost to Phx. tonight. I think that makes 3 in a row (after losses to the Clips & Warriors). I know you think the Lakers “. . . continue to look better than they really are. They are overachieving and have been since last year’s playoffs. . .” What do you think of Boston so far?
The Lakers "Too big, too strong, too long, too good."
IMHO, Boston seems to be lacking something this year. Sheed is still out of shape, their bench isn’t quite the same, and KG is still struggling with injuries, not to mention Pierce currently being out. The caveat with the Spurs (and rightfully so) is “if they remain healthy”. The same could be said of the Celtics. Plus, you never know when the Rondo situation might blow up in their faces.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
The Celtics are in the East so I don’t really care about them. …yet.
I pretty much agree with CapHill though. Adding overweight Sheed and Daniels and losing Davis, KG, and Pierce at times is worse than anything the Lakers have had to deal with. You pretty much played cupcakes without Pau and have Kobe to finish teams off when they are close.
One thing about the Celtics, I was listening to some of the ESPN hacks. (I won’t bother to say who because I don’t think too much of them and they’re all the same to me frankly.) They were talking about Sheed being so out of shape and just basically running from 3-point line to 3-point line. In their estimation he’s not “playing himself into shape” and is having another crappy year like he did last year.
They also said that they were sitting near the C’s bench during the Clippers game and say KG just yelling at Kendrick Perkins. And they said that Perkins and (mr new contract) Rondo are tired of getting treated like nothings by the “Big Three”. They seemed to think there was lots of dissension on the team.
Who knows what to believe but I do hope they’re right.
The Lakers "Too big, too strong, too long, too good."
You were listening to the same podcast where they said Manu is an afterthought and TD is not dominant anymore, weren’t you? I know the ESPN guys make a living off being hackish, but some of the things they said in that conversation were absolutely ridiculous. They also were saying that Bynum and Pau were unhappy, which is probably BS too, but have you heard anything like that?
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
It was a Bill Simmons podcast thing with Ric Bucher & Mark Stein I think – part 1 of a 2 part thing. I don’t remember what they said about Manu but now that you mention it they did say that Duncan is not drawing as many double-teams as he used to.
Regarding Bynum & Pau, I know Pau has stated he needs more touches. And as Bynum has dropped off a bit and there’s some speculation as to why. Some have guessed that he’s unhappy sharing touches with Pau but I have also heard that he’s fighting a respiratory infection and had some knee pain that he just recently sought treatment for.
The Lakers "Too big, too strong, too long, too good."
they did say that Duncan is not drawing as many double-teams as he used to.
and he is dominating his man one-on-one this year. Portland double teamed him and really did a good job this season making it more difficult for him. I think it was Portland at least.
FWIW, my only point was about what the ESPN hacks said about the Celtics. Tim asked about their comments regarding the Spurs so that is why I mentioned them above.
I don’t know enough to agree or disagree since I’ve only see nationally televised Spurs or Spur-Clipper games.
The Lakers "Too big, too strong, too long, too good."
by olf on Jan 1, 2010 6:53 PM CST up reply actions
Not to mention that it’s more difficult to double-team Duncan when the players you have to leave open to do so are Manu Ginobili and Richard Jefferson instead of Roger Mason Jr. and Michael Finley-
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
About the Celtics, lots of people are talking about how the Lakers and Spurs start with easy schedules, but the Celtics have the lowest SoS in the entire league.
1. Celtics .449
2. Wizards .464
3. Nuggets .466
4. Magic .480
9. Spurs .486
15. Lakers .497
25. Hornets .522
26. Bulls .524
27. Heat .531
28. Thunder .532
29. Suns .539
30. Rockets .553
I put the other teams because obviously the Rockets, Suns,Thunder, Heat, Bulls, and Hornets are in a position to pick up more games as the season goes on having played more tough ones. The Bulls is interesting because that is the Spurs worst loss by opponent’s record and they have won 4 in a row and sit at 14-17 after beating Orlando last night.
When we win a few against these teams… then I’ll feel comfortable reading “it’s not that difficult.”
It isn’t a horrendous lineup, I agree, but this is a strong test.
and unless “revenge games” are within the same season (and with new players)… I really don’t put much thought into it as far as team motivation is concerned.
"We suck on 'D. Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way. I don't know if I have an answer to that. If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad." - Popovich
by Aaron "Hirschof" Preine on Dec 31, 2009 1:41 AM CST up reply actions
the spurs records against teams above and below .500 has reached obscene proportions….the fluke cannot continue so:
A. You think we are going to start losing to more bad teams
B. You think we will start being more good teams
So my argument for B is that we are decimating the bad teams and losing close games to the good teams. That tends to make me think we are a good team that is on the verge of breaking out, whether it be a turnover less here or a couple extra free throw attempts here or whatever.
OKC is now 3 games over .500 so that puts our current records to:
Above .500: 2-10 (Dallas and Houston wins)
Below .500: 16-1 (Chicago loss, segababa and their home opener…possibly the example of a trap game in the encyclopedia)
The revenge thing was really just a joke that we would win both of those games in January. I’m not sure why having new players would matter though.
After watching those highlights yet again, I might have to rethink who my 2nd favorite Spur is.
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
When the tooth fairy's own tooth falls out, it is taken during the night by Princess Peanut.
by the little o on Dec 30, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
It tends to vary – in seasons past it’s been Manu, a lot of last year it was George, and this year it’s Blair. And in May of 2007, it was Horry.
::waiting for bella to whack me upside the head::
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. - Jane Austen
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