Is That The Best We Have?
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 24, 2009 9:16 AM CST
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PrintUpdated with some really great photos from JanieAnnie
Decimated by injuries, the Portland Trail Blazers came into San Antonio and beat the Spurs 98-94. I made the comment, while sitting with Graydon Gordian of 48MoH, several times that "we seem to be playing fairly well, but we are down 6".
This was a team playing two rookie second round picks and the ghost of Juwan Howard against Tim Duncan. A team without half its roster. The good half at that. We shot 51.4% from the field. Held them to 45.5% from the field. And lost.
I can only ask myself, "Is that the best we have?"
This Is RJ's Best
Did we take them too lightly? Maybe. I guess. I don' t know. We got out rebounded and they went to the free throw line 9 more times than we did (14 more times than we did in the second half). Those are usually statistics that represent hustle and effort. So I think you could probably conclude that they out worked us. If I'm in the Spurs organization (player or coach) and I'm coming to that conclusion, then I'd be very upset.
Hugs are good though.
Our defense killed us. By my count, we got 12 stops in the second half (I might be off by one). In my book, a stop means they don't score on that possession. So a turnover or defensive rebound is a stop. A missed shot isn't a stop if you don't get the rebound. The Blazers scored 50 points on 40 (or 41) second half possessions. That is just brutally inefficient defense. That was a defense that had to stop Jerryd Bayless and LaMarcus Aldridge. Yes, Jerryd Bayless and LaMarcus Aldridge. Not to put them down, they played well. But neither is an all-star. Neither is close to being an all-star, though we tried to make them look like all-stars. Hell, we made them look all-world (whatever the hell that means).
The team might not working on their defense, but their line dancing is totally kick ass.
Graydon gives you some X's and O's theory and discussion at 48MoH. Fun guy to hang out with and talk basketball. It makes the game a lot more fun to have such good analytical discussions afterward. I think I talked more Spurs strategy on the drive home after the game last night than I have all season.
Graydon and I concluded we needed more of this.
Back to my question, "is that the best we have"? Tony was efficient in his scoring. Tim was very good. RJ was 7-10 from the field and his only misses were 3-pointers. Manu wasn't particularly good. But, with solid games from 3 of our big 4, I'm thinking we should beat a team with the lineup the Blazers had on the floor. I'm wondering if it isn't chemistry we are missing, but grit. Old fashioned, put on your hardhat grit. Do you remember a game yet this season where we outworked the other team? Maybe the Celtics game. I think the Kings came into our building and outworked us. I think the Pacers came into our building and outworked us. I KNOW the Blazers just came into our building and outworked us.
Money.
If that is the best we have, I'm very disappointed. If that isn't the best we have, we might want to locate it pretty soon. Because we are not good right now. In fact, I would call us a talented bad team.
This is about how happy I was after the game.
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I think that chemistry and grit tend to go hand in hand. If you feel a connection with the guys you’re on the floor with, you work hard for them. I guess the silver lining is that chemistry might get better as this squad continues to get to know one another, and thus so might the grit. I see it in flashes, and I see it in individuals — it just needs to coalesce into a team mindset. Will it? Are we running out of time? We’ve played 26 games, which is fewer than most teams have played so far this season, so we could still conceivably turn things around.
Then again, we’re entering a much harder segment of our schedule. So we’ll either raise our game to meet the challenge, or we’ll keep doing what we’ve been doing — 2 wins here, a loss there, another win, another loss . . .
At least if the playoffs ended today, we’d be in them, albeit as a 7 seed.
Okay, I think I’m just talking out loud to myself at this point. Gathering my thoughts.
I have flying monkeys at my disposal, and I'm not afraid to use them.
I think you’re dead on about grit and chemistry.
Small verification, we have played the least number of games of any team.
The Spurs need to be winning 2/3rds of their games. We are currently 7 back on that pace. Our next 7 games are against teams below .500 and the Heat. Three are at home and 4 are Eastern game crappy team BABA’s (yes, Washington sucks, ATS). We need to win all of those games. I’m tired of shelling out optimism the Spurs refuse to back up. The most disappointing thing is that I know we are better, but we just don’t execute or we slack off for a quarter or we bench the hot hand. We need to get our record back to pace on these crappy teams and then the Spurs need to win 2 games minimum against Dallas, LA, or OKC.
If they don’t, I’ll be desperately searching for that panic button….
Damn, thanks for nothing for preemptively stealing my Washington shot at you. I’ve trying to figure out a way to bring it up without making it its own post. You damn grinch.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Dec 24, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
I don’t think it’s the best we have, obviously. We’ve played better. First of all, we had no bench last night, beyond Mason. We made our living this year on our bench’s play.
I miss Bonner.
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
One thing about the defensive stops. I thought our defense (with the exception of rebounding) was passable. The Blazers were consistently hounded into long 2’s at the end of the shot clock. Kudos to them for making those shots. Those shots also cause long rebounds and with the amount of physicality going on (and playing small ball) the Spurs weren’t going to get those rebounds.
I don’t think you can say they were hounded into long 2s when they shoot that many more free throws in the second half. While there were some possessions where they took long 2s, most of their looks were good looks.
Even that three pointer that Bayless took to seal the deal was an open look. Parker might have put a hand up, but that was still not a contested shot.
we got beat by a better team, simple as that.
They had a game-plan, they execute it and won. The spurs got outworked, outhustle and outcoached.
I would call us a talented bad team.
there’s not a better way to put it.
This team is missing tough guys, too many nice guys in this team.
Sorry for a long post
I remember talking about grit and wanting to win more than your opponent a while back, I think when we lost to Boston or Denver. I was called crazy. If you think about it, you have no idea what the game is going to bring out of Spurs not named TD.
I know the players would have had an earful from Pop after the game, but who is going to give him an earful? Some of his decisions baffle me.
1. giving up size advantage
2. untimely substitutions (God, I hate him when he pulls Manu out when we are about to take a lead)
Another important thing that keeps bothering me is…who are we? Are we a offensive minded team that plays from D or are we a defensive team that can challenge anyone. I feel like we lack identity this year and if we dont discover it fast enough, this season could give heart attack to a few fans.
Am I the only one feeling that the last years team, even though was deprived of talent was much better? We sure were a well oiled machine last year. We over achieved with what we had. We played with a must win mentality. This year, folks other than TD sure dont feel the same.
lacking identity….good, very good
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Dec 24, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
It is not the players it is the coaching.
Pop has lost it. He is no longer the good coach he used to be. The Spurs problems are not that hard to figure out. But he doesn’t see it at all.
Here’s the problem:
He doesn’t have the personnel to run the defensive schemes that he used to run but he is still trying to run the same schemes. Remember Bowen? Well we don’t have a Bowen any more, so you can’t run man to man anymore. Basically we don’t have a lock down defender which means we should be helping ALL the time. Even in the Post we have no one. TD is not getting blocks like he used to do, so players are driving on us without any fear of getting their shots blocked. This last game against Portland is a perfect example, 96 pts should have been enough to beat this team so the problem was not offense, but defense. They kept driving on us because there was no fear of getting blocked. But more importantly they kept driving on us because we could not stay in front of them. If we had Bowen, he would have single handed stop their drives but we don’t have a player like that anymore so instead of going zone we keep running the same stuff. Is he too proud to zone up a team? This to me is bad coaching. The Spurs are a very small team. VERY SMALL. You can’t have a small team on the floor and constantly get beat on drives to the basket. Why is he not playing Theo more? If he is too old then he should be trading for a defensive minded big man, because NO ONE is afraid of the Spurs when they get in the paint. I think Bonner and Manu should be traded for a defensive Big. As much as I hate to say this next statement, it is true. Manu is not needed on this team anymore, we scored 96pts without him doing anything. Between Hill and Mason we have enough offense to replace Manu. But we don’t have anyone to play post defense. If we fix that one problem. We would be very tough to beat.
Pop did not always have Bowen and they won so……….yes he may be in a rut of sorts but I think your viewpoint on getting rid of Pop is in the very small minority. I do agree that the Spurs need a much stronger presence in the paint – I feel like a broken record with that one. Trading Manu? Never.
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
by Joe deLarios on Dec 25, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
The thing about Manu is, he’s simply erotic, so it’s hard to justify any trade as we wouldn’t be getting equal value in return.
"I will five all over this blog." - JRW
by Manuwar on Dec 25, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
TRADING MANU IS A NO NO
He is still coming back to himself. A helaty Manu is better than any big man we could trade for. Mark my words at the end of the season Manu will be who he was before and will be a huge differnce maker in the playoffs.Theo Ratliff is our big and will get more min’s as the season’s second half starts. Even Pop has stated that before. It not always about how you start at the start of a race it is how you finish at the end of the race that counts the most.
GO SPURS GO
SPURS 2010 NBA Champions (if team is healty LoL)
Manu must be sacraficed.
Eventhough Manu is a great player when he has his confidence. The Spurs can’t afford to wait for him to regain his confidence after every other game. The way Manu is playing right now, it would not effect the Spurs at all if he was traded. They actually don’t need the little offensive game that he is giving us because he negates it with his terrible turnovers. He will be a FA next year, and we risk losing him for nothing if we don’t trade him now while he is healthy. I think we should start Manu at SG for the next month to see if he has anything left, and to show him off to other teams we may be willing to trade with. And if we can get a Defense Big in a trade we should do it.
Scoring and confidence?
Manu is our most efficient scorer at 1.40 points per shot. He is shooting over 40% from 3. He is our top free throw shooter (by ~7%) which comes in handy in close games when you need someone who is clutch. He is our second worst player on 2 point % and seems to be a little off at finishing at the rim, but he was told to come into the season out of shape/conditioning and he was set back by his injury.
Turnovers?
Manu is third to Hairston’s pathetic minutes and Mason in Assists per Turnover at 1.98. He also leads us in steals per game so like everyone always knows, Manu makes up for his turnovers. He is also our best rebounding guard.
Most teams won’t trade for Manu unless he already has an extension or they are competing for a chip this year and need him for the title push. If we are trading him a to a team who thinks they need him for a chip, don’t you think we might need him a for a chip? Why would we trade him after getting him into a nice trade-able extension? Why would we trade him on the awesome contract he has now? It makes no sense to trade Manu, extension or not.
by BlaseE on Dec 29, 2009 2:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
my analysis
SORRY IF I GOT SOME MISSPELLED WORDS,CUZ ITS TOO LONGyou know what guys,timmy is playing gr8,his the franchise player and i think he is playing gr8 not bcuz of the fact that they keep on looking for him,but if u may see his scoring much cuz his other teammates are not living up to their potential.and so it means we need a guy to do something,a guy who can move our score board,if we don’t have tim we’ll end up like new jersey or at least better than them.
now my point is,manu his been rusty,sooooo rusty…its like the 26th if im correct,game and his still rusty he liked played 20.yes his human,prone to injury,yes,his rusty.why not play him 42-48 mins for 4 str8 games eh?so that he won’t heel rusty anymore,it’ll be hard cuz he’ll tired,but if we try to do this,he’ll be more familiarized to his teammates,and if plays bad still,make him feel what it feelsof him being rust,dnp him fro 3 games and let mase do the job,cuz he is proving to pop his worth every time his on the floor.on my opinion,why not have 3-5 games to jeopardized,ei?!cuz we already lost those winnable games!its not like timmy will always have a game winning dunk against indiana.to have the acquaintance on the floor that we need lets play 8 man rotation,start all the new face on the c(ok lets put tim on pf,which is irreplaceable.)sg,sf.we’ll have tp and td on pf and pg for example.play all the new faces 36-48 mins.ei,then just sub the older guys to the pf and pg and move the other guys to other positions,get my picture?!ok it’ll probably be small ball,its like dice be the c when td’s out or be the pf when his out.hae this 3-5 games.maybe 3 games for the new ones to play at least 32 mins each(the ones pop put on the floor)then i can say have another 3 for the old ones to play at least 34-48 mins.ok so it means that time management is kinda prob here.but we need to find something out in this experiment.then i guess we need to jeopardize 7 games,1 for blair to play at least 36 mins,put him on sf instead pf,let rj be the sg.i mean we need to know each guys potential,which in paper we know how good they are!so lets not waste time and be a 41-41 team,lets jeopardize 7 games not bcuz we want to lose,but bcuz we’re a question,an enigma,that even the cursed potential team really show who they are,even depleted,so i guess if roy was there 4 would be a deficit of 40 for us?lol
im also a nba fan voice member i always rite post there,last summer,(got 600 post ahhaha) and some vet member always reply on my posts,that spurs is just a 50 winning team,cuz u know its summer u get predictions.i don’t argue with him cuz he seems nice,but on like 5 times he told me that and he didn’t say any reason why,i can see now why.ITS ALL ABOUT GROWING PAINS,RUSTY PEOPLE,CONFUSED PLAYERS.SO E NEED SOMETHING TO GET GOING!
I really hope that we can win our last games,why can’t we have a winning streak likeboston,l.a. or cleveland,or our fellow underrated orlando magic ei?!can’t we have a 20 game winning streak?30 would be better,12 *sigh ok i’ll take it as thank you at leats we can make miracles!
all i can sya and pray is,for us to go to the playoff,with us in the west we’re like 5th-8th seeded on what is happening to us if we still don’t know what to do.and so i hope we’ll be like the MIAMI HEAT ON ‘06,GROWING PAINS,AND HISTORICAL PLAYOFFGAMES.THEN WIN A RING!THAT’S THE ONLY REMEDY TO THIS EARLY PAINS!BE LIKE MIAMI!FIND WHO YOU ARE CUZ UR BETTER THAN THE MIAMI 06 TEAM!THEN IT JUST MEANS THAT WE HAVE A BETTER CHANCE!PLS IM DISAPPOINTED AND PISSED OFF LIKE EVERY OTHER FAN!DON’T TAKE THINGS EASILYAND END UP LIKE THE GW DALLAS PLAYOFF GAMES ,THE UPSET!PLS DON’T.LET US WIN,I’LL STILL SUPPORT THIS TEAM EVEN IF IM PISSED OFF ALREADY!
by tp_09 on Dec 24, 2009 1:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Oh, man… I don’t think argentinosaurus777 is off the hook yet, but not for lack of trying. I think we need JRW to weigh in on this.
Anyway, I hope you’re right.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
I’m sorry. I’ve been a bit busy here. Did someone call for meta-commentary? Happy to oblige.
First let me read it.
…
I’m not quite sure where to begin. There’s just so much. The prolonged use/overuse of bold, the text-speak, the run-on sentences, the rarely seen bold/all caps/run-on, and finally the extended spacebar-optional finale of all caps with multiple exclamation points.
Tim, you’re right that argentinosaurus777 is safe, but I think that’s because we’re looking at an entirely different style here. I think that, along with psychopopps, we have a new 2nd tier entrant.
I guess my one-word response would have to be: Bravo.
This is definitely the best Christmas present I’ve received this year.
Consider the gun jumped
5 in 10
HELL YEAH, tp_09! YOU SPEAK FROM YOUR HEART LIKE A TRUE ARGENTINE! FANGIOOOOOOOOO
Bone breaking? -340
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I think our expectation for this team was through the roof too early. I’m still not in panic mode, the Spurs have started off on this slow pace before and found a way to turn into championship contenders. If we’re still seeing this type of lackluster effort in Feburary, well that’s a different story all together.
Finally, Some Good News
Manu reports on his facebook page that he’ll soon be the father of twin BOYS! Sign ’em up RC.
So, that’s great! Did you buy the new pair you’d been talking so much about, or did you get the used set that was such a good deal?
Consider the gun jumped
5 in 10
I was gonna get the used pair but…If you wait you get he best deals, it was a risky move but Best Buy was slashing prices like crazy and I just said, what the hell, it’s now or never. You really can’t replicate that new hands smell.
I was a little clumsy at first and got my hands trapped below a steamroller, but I returned them and they were replaced for free, so far so good with these ones.
"Under the tutelage....of Randy Tutelage"
Don't steamrollers move like really slowly? How the hell clumsy were you?
Hilariously maladjusted. But for all the right reasons.
Oh my. The holidays have clearly affected my ability to move a cursor to the proper field. My apologies.
Hilariously maladjusted. But for all the right reasons.
How the hell clumsy was I?
I don’t know, pretty hell clumsy?
"Under the tutelage....of Randy Tutelage"
That’s pretty the hell clumsy. Geez, you can’t even get your sarcasm right.
The Spurs - now playing like sh*t again!
Ah, no, see, the descriptor changes based on the grammatical positioning of the direct object; so, in statement form: “Pretty damn clumsy.” Whereas “the hell” and “damn” may be used interchangeably in the question form.
Hilariously maladjusted. But for all the right reasons.
Too many turnovers
Too many three pointers taken
Lack of Defensive hustle
= close game?
the loss sucks but Spurs are still looking for identity – thanks Heman – I think you’re right – you bring in a quality scorer (RJ) as a starter and you have to find out what kind of team you are going to be
"Mr. Gilmore deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame damnit. Highest field goal percentage EVER"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html
another prob
we just live by the bench and td,ok tp is playing efficient. and so how about the other 3 or 4 guys left?
i don’t know guys,but i have a request. on our 1st yr’s game against portland.(rj baptized oden!yeah,the only good that happened to us in that game.)
we were aired on espn right,then last night we were again aired there.hmmm and phoenix, im not sure what channel is that,that they lost 13 games str8 if aired on that channel.so can someone search on channels that were cursed and that we’re in luck?(its just for fun though)if someone wants to.
this was a bad loss any way you cut it. at home against a good, but seriously depleted team. tip of the cap to the blazers they played very very well – but still……the spurs simply must start winning some of these kinds of games soon.
not time to flick the panic switch just yet though. its still fairly early.
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