Stat of the Game: -20.5: Also, Matt Bonner Makes My Head Hurt
After last night's game, I was really not sure of what stat to use. I considered writing about how every time the Spurs were on the verge of making a run, they gave up a three point play or an offensive rebound. This game could really be summed up by the phrase, "momentum killing." It felt like I was punched in the stomach 36 times last night. Well, when I gave more thought to what exactly was momentum killing, Matt Bonner immediately came to mind. I re-watched the game and wrote a running diary that focuses on Matt Bonner. I also kept track of his negative and positive contributions to the game. That is where -20.5 comes from. What does this mean? Continue reading to find out.
A friendly note: Kids, don't try this at home. Re-watching a Spurs' loss is painful enough. Re-watching a Spurs' loss while observing every move that Bonner makes is damn near torture.
1st Quarter
4:41 Bonner checks into the game. I remember thinking, 'Why do we not play Blair more often?'
4:13 Bonner misses a wide open three. He will receive a -1 for that. I will be assigning values to every play he makes as we go along.
3:08 Bonner attempts to set a screen on the much smaller Wes Matthews and somehow gets manhandled. The officials make the call and Bonner goes to the line where he makes 1 of 2. He gets a +.5 for this play. While we are here, have you ever watched Bonner shoot? I mean, do not watch the ball, stay focused on his form. It is unbelievable. Who told him to shoot like that? When I was learning how to shoot, I watched Michael Jordan and tried to mimic his form. I feel that's what most people do. Find the best there is and try to be like Mike. Who the hell did Bonner copy? Bill Cartwright?
2:54 Kirilenko blows past Bonner forcing McDyess to come over and help. McDyess alters Andrei's shot but Milsap is left wide open under the basket for the offensive rebound. Bogans fouls Milsap for two free throws. Now, after Andrei blows by Bonner, Bonner is completely out of the play. It's like he disappears from the court. Get back in it, Bonner. Block someone out. Alter Milsap's shot. At the very least, Bonner should have been the one to foul Milsap. Bogans and Hill's foul trouble killed us. -1 for Bonner.
2:46 Bonner walks around aimlessly as McDyess is called for the Spurs first illegal screen of the night. -1 for Bonner because he seriously spends the majority of his time on the court wandering aimlessly. It's like he just woke up and is searching for his glasses. He is slow, somewhat clumsy and contributes nothing to society.
2:35 Kirilenko posts up Bonner on the block. There is a lot of contact but no call and the Spurs secure the rebound. +1
2:10 Bonner gets called for the Spurs' second illegal screen of the game. Alright, just 36 seconds earlier McDyess was called for the same violation. Now, if you follow basketball at all, you know that officials have a tendency to really focus on making one or two calls each night. Sometimes it's traveling, sometimes it's a blocking foul, and sometimes it's setting an illegal screen. The tip off occurred when they called an illegal screen on McDyess. They never make that call, but they made it clear early on that they were going to enforce it tonight. -3 for being incompetent, Bonner.
1:55 Finley and Bonner fight over a rebound. Bonner wins the battle. Way to go, Bonner. +.5
1:30 Bonner fakes a three, drives into the lane, and finds a wide open Finley for three. +1
:59 Bonner fakes a three, drives into the lane, and makes a horrible pass that gets picked off. Bogans commits the foul to stop the fast break. That's the second foul that Bonner caused Bogans to commit. Also, at the NBA level, you cannot make the same exact move two times in a row. The players and defenses are too gifted. How does he not know this? -2.
:03 Bonner gets the rebound and throws a JaMarcus Russell like duck over half court as time expires. +1 for getting the rebound, -.5 because, "You throw like a GIRL!" -- Sandlot
2nd Quarter 20-19, Jazz lead.
11:30 As Boozer hits another one of his funky fade-aways, Milsap beats Bonner like the red headed step child he is. -1 because Bonner was manhandled the entire night. He gets treated like a little brother out there.
10:59 Bonner fakes a three, drives into the lane, realizes he has absolutely no where to go with the ball, and flips it up and over the backboard. That's right, he shot the ball over the entire backboard. -3 for sucking at life in general.
10:38 Bonner is on the weak side as Brewer drives baseline for an uncontested layup. Thanks for the help, big guy. -1
10:10 Mason shoots a deep three that misses and the long rebound bounces right to Bonner. Bonner tips the ball back to Mason for a new possession. After watching Bonner closely, it became evident that he never fights for offensive rebounding position. Whenever he gets an offensive rebound, it's because the ball took an unlikely bounce and went right to him. He is the Bizzaro Blair. +1
9:21 Bonner drives baseline for a reverse layup. +1
9:03 When I watched this in person, I was very confused as to how Bonner managed to put himself in such a bad situation. Well, it turns out Boozer caught the ball at the top of the key and Bonner thought he was going to shoot. As Bonner attempted to block Milsap out, Milsap cut across the paint and Boozer passed him the ball. Bonner was facing the wrong direction under the basket as Milsap received the pass. Bonner managed to foul Milsap preventing the easy layup. -2 for not following one of the main rules of defense. "Always keep an eye on your man and the ball." Bonner managed to lose track of both.
8:55 Finley misses a long three from the corner and the long rebound falls into Bonner's lap. +1 At halftime, the Jazz lead 44-40.
3rd Quarter
Bonner gets benched for the entire third. Not coincidentally, this is the only quarter that the Spurs win as they tie the game at 60 to begin the fourth.
4th Quarter
12:00 Okay, this is only somewhat Bonner related. I realize that the Spurs are experiencing foul trouble with Bogans and Hill, but we really needed to make a push to begin the fourth. We had been trailing the entire game. It was important for the Spurs to come out aggressively. Pop's lineup to begin the fourth was about as bad as it gets. Mason, Hairston, Finley, Bonner, and McDyess. Shockingly, our first possession ended with an air ball and a 24 second shot clock violation. I mean, what is the purpose of this lineup? Can they defend well? No. Can they score in bunches? No. Can they completely destroy the Spurs' momentum? Yes, and they did.
11:15 Kirilenko receives a pass at the free throw line extended, crosses Bonner over, and makes the layup as Bonner catches up just in time to commit the foul and send him to the line. Vintage Matt Bonner. -3 because this was a huge momentum killer. The crowd was begging for a defensive stop and this play completely took the air out of the building.
10:18 Pop finally subs in RJ for Bonner. The crowd was restless as the Spurs were down 66-63. Also, this lineup sucks. We just went small for no reason. Now our lineup consists of 'Showing Signs of Life' Mason, 'Mistake Prone" Hairston, '0%' Finley, 'Too short to be a 4' RJ, and 'Likes to Hide' McDyess. Again, what is the purpose of this lineup? When a team goes small, they generally do it to upgrade their offense at the expense of their defense. But this lineup is not good offensively. Maybe if Mason and Finley were red hot it could work, but Finley shot 0% from the field and Mason was cooling off at this point.
8:31 The Spurs have completely lost the momentum and Pop finally decides to put in a competent lineup. We are down by 5. Now, 5 points may not seem like a big deal, but it is. The Spurs were trailing the entire game. They battled back to tie it at the end of three, but now that group re-enters the game to find themselves once again in a hole. It's simply draining to be losing. And as the second game of a back to back, playing from behind becomes that much more tiring. We should have began the fourth with our best lineup, built a lead, and then rested players as needed. I just hate the substitution patterns. The team is in a funk and so are the coaches. It's a tug of war match and we are always either losing or tied. That's not how you win basketball games.
3:20 McDyess gives up a three point play to Boozer so Pop replaces him with Bonner. As you can imagine, I was furiously screaming at this point.
2:53 It looked as if Deron Williams pushed off as he began his drive, but no call. Williams gets into the paint and Bonner arrives just in time to give up the three point play. Vintage Bonner. -4. Oh, and great call on replacing McDyess with Bonner, Pop. That fixed everything. Pop calls a timeout and puts McDyess back in for Bonner.
:45 For reasons that could only be illogical, Pop decides we need more Bonner. We are down by 5. I told my friend, "We are still in it. All we need is a quick score, one stop, and another score to tie it." Well, Bonner delivered one last punch to the nuts. He set his second illegal screen, thereby eliminating any chance that the Spurs had of coming back. -5.
Horrible. Why did I do that to myself? I guess I wanted evidence to support my hate for Bonner. Well, adding up all of my points, we come to -20.5. Bonner is like that friend you have who always is a negative. You have friends that contribute to the group, you have friends that do not contribute one way or the other so no harm done, and then, inevitably, there is that one dude who somehow always shows up and brings the fun level down. He just sucks at life. He can't help it. You cannot even pinpoint what he could do to improve himself. He is a lost cause. The good Lord simply did not bless him with the tools necessary to be successful. This is Matt Bonner in a nutshell. Generally, the group rids itself of the negative over time. It's a process. So, what's Tonya Harding up to these days? I mean, she is capable of handling this situation. Does anyone have her contact info? I would like to speed the process up. (Just kidding, kind of.)
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59 comments
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Comments
Agreed
I wonder the same damn thing when Bonner is in the game. He can’t play defense!!!!!!!
Go Spurs Go!!!!!!!
I think this is a little unfair. We lost the lead once G.Hill and Timmy went to the bench in the 2nd quarter and never got it back. I especifically remember these two plays:
1:30 Bonner fakes a three, drives into the lane, and finds a wide open Finley for three. +1
:59 Bonner fakes a three, drives into the lane, and makes a horrible pass that gets picked off. Bogans commits the foul to stop the fast break. That’s the second foul that Bonner caused Bogans to commit. Also, at the NBA level, you cannot make the same exact move two times in a row. The players and defenses are too gifted. How does he not know this? -2.
This happened when mason was at PG, and TD, Hill and RJ ( i think) were in the bench. The offense stopped. Everybody was just standing there and looking at each other, waiting for MATT BONNER create something for others. I said it last night, if we depend on Bonner to create we are in trouble. When Hill and Timmy came back into the game we were down already by 10+.
I’m all for Blair getting some minutes, but IMO he’s not that big of an improvement to Matt Bonner on defense.
Blair constantly fights for position. Bonner wanders aimlessly. That’s a defensive improvement. If Blair can just keep in mind where the charge circle is, he’d be good.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
True. They both give a similar of effort, bur Blair seems to know where he needs to be a little bit better. Probably the same way he’s a natural at knowing where to be to grab rebounds.
The Spurs - now playing defense again! ...but only against Dallas.
I have a question for the Basketball experts around here. If Bonner is such a liability defensively, how come Pop plays him so much? Pop is renowned for not playing anybody not worth his weight on defense, that is the main argument against giving Blair playing time. The same goes for Finley. Im just wondering if what we perceive as good defense is different than what Pop perceives as good defense.
"If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert"
- DBG
Bonner is an atrocious defender because he lacks defensive instinct and athleticism. Can you remember the last time he blocked a shot? Can you remember the last time he shut someone down? Every time Bonner guards someone decent the other team force feeds him the ball. It’s not an accident. Bonner gets playing time for his offensive contributions and because he knows our system. To blindly believe that Pop only plays defensively gifted players is ludicrous. Finley is also an atrocious defender. It’s not to say that they do not try to play defense, because they do give an effort. That’s why Pop gives them playing time. But Finley is not quick enough to stay in front of other guards. He also lacks the athleticism required to be a good defender.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
agree, but in terms of defending your man and protecting the paint they are about the same. But rebounding is the most important part of defense, and like a said I’m all for blair getting more minutes. But I dont think that Bonner was the reason we lost the game
See, I would disagree with that. The most important part of defense is making your man miss his shot. The next most important part is rebounding that miss.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Nov 20, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
I understand what you are getting at. We collectively sucked and you can’t put it squarely on one guy.
But see, for me, the thing with Bonner is, out on the court, he doesn’t act like he got pride. Guys consistently make a mockery of most aspects of his game and I don’t see him coming back with a response. Maybe he just can’t do it physically. But there are mental aspects of the game. The guy across from Bonner, his face shouldn’t lit up at the sight of Redhead.
The other day against Dallas, I think Bonner did a good job overall. His hands were actively. He was actually focussing on defence against Dirk. You could see some brain activity there. And he shot well. I welcome those games, coz the system is using him within his capabilities and within our needs.
Now with Tony and Manu out, we just can’t fault Bonner for acting like he is drowning and coming up for water desparately. But at the same time, I prefer much much less Bonner.
Maybe we should have dumped Bonner instead of Oberto and/or Bowen for RJ. I don’t know how those salaries would have worked, but still.
Don’t get me wrong, I still having raging Bonner love whenever he makes a 3, shows his face in a Planet Fitness commercial, and writes another “gimme ma sammich!” blog entry.
by Manu ex Machina on Nov 20, 2009 1:35 PM CST reply actions
I have to admit my love for his dj remixing moves while one-on-one defense – DJ Bonner in stores soon, maybe?
by spursfan_needs_counseling on Nov 20, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
If Blair ever gets significant minutes, I’ll go film session mode for him too.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
I believe this is known as “Zaprudering.”
Try the new PtR--now entirely BAT-FREE!
by Lauri on Nov 20, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Bravo Fred for this searing indictment of Bonner.
There was one Bonner play that you missed; Looking at the play by play it was at the 10:27 mark. Mason turns the ball over to Brewer who goes on a break away dunk. Bonner is following Brewer and is the closet Spur to him… and Bonner just completely gives up on the play. He literally just slows and stops running and watches as Brewer throws it down.
Bonner is completely and utterly worthless.
Well, I did not include that one because there was really nothing Bonner could have done to prevent the steal. Brewer’s man, Finley I think, dove from the top of the key into the paint. Brewer faked like he was going into the paint and bounced back into the passing lane for the steal. Even if Bonner had made a better effort to meet the ball, the steal was inevitable. It was just a horrible pass. And if Bonner had tried to foul, it would have been a break-away call so Utah would have been awarded a free throw and the ball.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
The one thing that I think Bonner does well is hustle. Granted, it helps if you are athletic and have talent, but I think that may be one of the biggest reasons Pop keeps going back to him. That and the aforementioned knowledge of the system.
I would like to see Ratlif a little more when Duncan needs to rest. Maybe a McDyess/Theo front court and see what happens.
Did a redheaded bully steal your lunch money in grade school?
I can think of no other explanation for such rapid Bonner-hate. A good play gets a +0.5 and a bad play (or imagined bad play) gets a -4? OK. Do you use the same scale for George Hill when Deron WIlliams (or Rodrigue Beaubois the other night) repeatedly blows by him? First a couple of facts:
1. Moving screen fouls are almost always the fault of the dribbler. In this case the dribbler was Roger Mason Jr. and the fouls were clearly his fault for not driving his man into the screen (as is taught in grade school).
2. Bonner played 8 minutes in the first half. During this span he scored or assisted on every single Spurs point. He was the offense.
Um, great ‘facts’ but i literally watched every play and wrote down what happened. I did not make any of it up. And the fault of an illegal screen can be on the dribbler, but in these instances Bonner was in constant motion. He never was set. He had the opportunity to set a legal pick and was too concerned with floating to the three point line. And at that point in the game, down by 5 with 45 seconds remaining, setting an illegal screen that has been called twice already is unforgivable.
And yes, my arbitrary point system is biased, but that’s the point. It’s my arbitrary point system, after all.
And I gave him .5 for good plays that he did not work for. For example, multiple times he was 20 feet from the basket in horrible rebounding position and the ball happened to bounce to him. If he were to actually fight for an offensive rebound, I would have given him more points, accordingly.
You must be what Cartman refers to as a ‘Ginger.’
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
You criticize my facts?
Q1, 2:54 – You say McDyess helped and Bogans fouled. Wrong and wrong. Finley came to help, unnecessarily as Bonner had Kirilenko covered. McDyess was in position to block Millsap out but inexplicably moved away from him, then fouled him after he got the easy offensive board.
Q1, 0:59 – Bogans caught the ball then put it right within Kirilenko’s grasp. An NBA player has to make that play. The pass was bad, but not epic bad like Mason’s to start the 4th quarter.
The real problem with this play and Bonner’s awful Q2/10:59 over-the-backboard flip shot is for 8 minutes the offense relied 100% on Bonner to create. That’s putting him way out of his role, but someone had to step in because Mason was playing so poorly at point.
If I used your system to score the offensive and defensive lapse I saw during the game (e.g. Q4/8:48 Jefferson and McDyess both run away from Millsap, leaving him wide open right under the basket for a thunderous putback dunk of a Brewer missed jumper) the Spur’s total would be about -1850.
by doggydogworld on Nov 20, 2009 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
“10:59 Bonner fakes a three, drives into the lane, realizes he has absolutely no where to go with the ball, and flips it up and over the backboard. That’s right, he shot the ball over the entire backboard. -3 for sucking at life in general.”
This play alone is reason enough for me to hate Bonner for life. Now add that to his play in the first round last playoffs.
I thought the random assigning of numbers was great. What better way to use numbers (or stats) to prove your point than to just make up values? I actually had him in the books at a -27.3, but that’s just me.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Nov 20, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
Bonner Rating
Admittedly, Bonner is not the best defender on the floor and he sometimes wanders both mentally and physically, but don’t jump on the bandwagon too soon for Blair who has his own defensive liabilities. I kept my eye on him entirely over several games and: He does get good position for rebounds and is a scrapper under the boards, but when the man he is guarding moves outside he is easily screened and usually fails to switch when necessary resutling in an easy shot for the opposition. Blair hasn’t quite learned the Spur defensive plan yet, but he isn’t the only newcomer struggling in that area. Blair’s rebounding problem is he often is forced to deep under the basket and taller rebounders go over him to snatch the ball. He can’t do that, like he did in college, and get away with it. He has got to learn to block his man further out and not depend on outfighting players under the basket. His positive side is still pretty good though, I wonder if Pop is trying to show off Bonner as a starter as trade bait. Teams looking for outside shooting big men might be willing to give up a like minded strong rebounder which is still San Antonio’s major weakness.
Good points. I agree with all the Blair facts.
I haven’t seen Blair make a cerebral effort on p&r coverage. I haven’t seen him pick up vet moves for under the basket defense. I mean, he’s got Timmeh and Dice to learn from. I see him consistently put up his arms and hope the refs blow the whistle his way. Na ah. Not for a rookie(just how the nba works unfortunately). Standing and putthing up arms without actively trying for a block and ending up with contact under the basket, the shooter gets the whistle.
How about putting Blair at the 3 spot, alongside the frontcourt of Duncan and McDyess, and a backcourt of Jefferson and Hill? Blair will help tremendously off of misses and can try to post up the 3 guards; yeah, his defense will be horrendous to look at if he’s covering a quicker player, but the Spurs can try to take a look at something like this at this point in the season.
Bonner = 
"There are two things in life that should never go together.....those two things are cheese and herpes..." - Santa Claus
by Cello the great on Nov 20, 2009 5:30 PM CST reply actions
Bonner’s not the reason we’re 4-6. Giving Blair Bonner’s minutes might help in the long term (I also want Blair to develop) but I honestly doubt it’ll improve the Spurs significantly.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
I did not blame Bonner for our record. I just meant to point out how awful he is.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
Fair enough, Fred, but I wasn’t replying to you specifically. I liked the post – it’s a great way to start up a debate.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Besides, I agree 100% with doggy.
You can’t ask Bonner to create and then complain when he elbows the defender in the throat and then airballs a circus shot. Bonner is a tall spot-up shooter, and when he’s asked to play within his limits he’s very effective. We never criticized Bowen for being an absolute zero on the offensive side (except for that corner 3 of his), because he was great at his role. Bonner was our top 3-point marksman last year, and that’s what he needs to go back to.
The real question is, why on earth is Bonner asked to do so much? What’s going on?
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
Who is asking Bonner to do anything other than play defense and shoot threes? I’m pretty confident that if you asked Pop, he would say that he does not want Bonner running the offense. The ball would swing to him and he consistently chose to pass on the shot and penetrate. It was his choice. No one told him before the game to run the offense. It seemed that part of Utah’s game plan was to chase Bonner off the three point line and expose his weakness, that being everything else in the game of basketball.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
I though Bonner played fairly well in the Dallas game, even being somewhat physical against Dirk. However in the Utah game, Matty broke the #1 rule of basketball (for him): If you are not open to shoot, DO NOT dribble the basketball or try to drive the lane. Just pass the ball to a teammate and camp out at the 3-pt line again. And he did wander way too much on the defensive end that game, although he was not the only one.
My people call it "sarcasm." - Lauri
I think the dunk he made earlier in the season made him believe he has developed that “go-to” move.
by silverandblack_davis on Nov 21, 2009 5:20 AM CST up reply actions
As for Bonner wandering around, this is from a recap SiMA did last year in a game against the Nuggets.
9:47- Matt Bonner is literally running circles on the floor. And I don’t mean ‘Pop’s play looks like circles on the hardwood.’ I mean he’s literally just running around aimlessly, like you do in a pickup game at the Y. Pop has caught on to Matt’s “offensive rotations” and is screaming.
I think it’s Matt’s trademark.
If you haven't lived with a squirrel, you haven't lived. - Bob Ross
Wow, if I was Matt Bonner and I read this, it’d make me cry. Ouch. But thanks Fred, for really putting the microscope on Matt in this one.
For me, the problem with Matt is that he is really just a situational player, not someone who you can regularly give minutes to. We all know on offense he’s not worth a lick to grab offensive rebounds since he always camps out at the three, and if he isn’t hitting that shot then his playing time should similarly go. Defensively is where he should be in good position to get rebounds because of his height and girth but below average athleticism prevents him from doing that, aside from not being able to consistently stay with his man.
I don’t know, I mean, is he better than Brian Scalabrine? They both have the same type of game and not coincidentally, they also both look alike, and even Doc Rivers recognizes that if he’s getting Scal a ton of minutes, then his team is in a lot of trouble. This “knowing the system” thing for me is crap when you have other players like Blair or Hairston or even Haislip that can compensate for their lack of knowledge with athleticism and maybe innate basketball smarts. Granted, there are a lot of new guys and they need time to learn, but isn’t it clear that Bonner has been making the same mistakes and showing the same weaknesses in his game for the past few years that shouldn’t it be high time we tried something else?
by silverandblack_davis on Nov 21, 2009 5:32 AM CST reply actions
If Bonner read this he’d laugh. The Spurs staff breaks down every single play for every single player on video. They compile custom video sequences for each player to show them individually. They score in much more detail than Fred and with 10x the competence. For example, they’ll score those moving screens against Mason, not Bonner. And they’ll give credit to Bonner for plays such as his Q1/3:47 Kirilenko blockout which allowed Bogans to stroll in and collect the defensive board. Of course they’ll score him down on a bunch of things Fred missed, too.
40 years ago my dad scored his players using film. Then video came along. We were the first family in our town to have a VCR, this was pre-VHS so it used these big, clunky 3/4" tape casettes. 20 years ago Suns coach Alvin Gentry did the Spurs video scoring. They had a half-million dollar SportsTech system which used a PC to control banks of VCRs. I was developing an all-digital competitor at the time and watched Alvin score some games and practices to see which features were most useful (I did the same with the Raiders staff and some colleges). Even back then, with antiquated technology and less staff, the manhours and analysis that went into video scoring was remarkable. I can only imagine what it’s like today.
by doggydogworld on Nov 21, 2009 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
Hey maybe if hard drive technology keeps advancing, they’ll be able to store plays in which players box out, and show them to the Spurs as an example of how to do it.
If you haven't lived with a squirrel, you haven't lived. - Bob Ross
by Hipuks on Nov 21, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, but I refuse to take anything that a guy with the screen name ‘doggydogworld’ says seriously. But I’m sure everyone is, and was, very impressed with your first VCR. Way to go, man. -55 for you for taking everything I said so personally.
"GINOBILI!" -- Sir Charles
You are both taking it too seriously. It’s just a blog, fellas.
Straight from the No-Stat Zone to your computer!
Dunkin' Cheerleaders
This post is way too funny.
Example:
1:55 Finley and Bonner fight over a rebound. Bonner wins the battle. Way to go, Bonner. +.5
Just one thing though:
He is slow, somewhat clumsy and contributes nothing to society.
You talking about me, punk?!
"Yes, it's important that I have good numbers, and I'm well-respected as a player. But I think it's more important that I'm respected as a man." - Some Tall Guy Who Wore #50

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