Another Argentina Laugher...

by Aaronstampler on Aug 20, 2008 11:43 AM CDT Comment 23 comments

Phew... Argentina 80, Greece 78

Manoli stayed in bed, refused to watch the game because he said he would get irrationally upset with me and start yelling and cursing at me. Good thing he didn't see the end, a game can't end much more dramatically.

Really, I think he would've been proud. I'm the biggest Manu homer in the world, but let's be real... if this game is played ten times, Greece would've won seven. They got their offense a lot easier than Argentina did, got a lot of inside baskets, lay-ups, offensive rebounds, FT attempts. They had way more assists and just generally looked like they were executing some kind of viable team offense. I really got the impression that Greece played a C- game for them while Argentina played maybe a B. They can play a bit better, but not much, at least as far as their offensive game plan was.

Argentina just took and made a high percentage of their threes and got like 42 of their 80 points that way. They had and-1s on their first three baskets, for three FT attempts, then didn't get to the line again for the middle 36 minutes of the game. Manu took 17 shots, but 13 of those were from three. You could tell he had no legs at all and was exhausted. Their bench is so terrible that he played the entire second half without a rest.

Nocioni and Scola both started well, but faded. Chapu had an excuse because he tweaked his knee, but Scola finishing with only 11 is disappointing. It didn't look like Greece was doing anything special on defense against him, he simply didn't get many touches. He had no jumper at all, unlike the last game against Russia where he couldn't miss from 18' and in.

I never thought I'd type these words, but Delfino saved their bacon. Just when the team looked like it ran out of scoring ideas after three quarters, Carlos scored their first 15 points in the 4th, on three bombs, a crazy drive, and two fadeaway jumpers. After Prigioni found Scola all alone for a lay-up, thanks to a good Manu pick of his guy, Ginobili scored the last seven points on a three (his sixth make), two FTs, and a nice driving lay-up that somehow wasn't blocked even though the release point couldn't have been higher than seven feet.

Really, the hidden star of this game was Prigioni. He had six steals, harassed Spanoulis into a bunch of turnovers and Vassilis only had like 9 points, most of them very early. Defensively Argentina wasn't all that great, FG% wise, and they gave up too many offensive rebounds and inside baskets, but they were saved by all the turnovers they forced.

With Nocioni's injury, it's pretty clear that even if he does play against the U.S., he'll be limited. I don't think Manu's conditioning is at the level where he can handle playing his seventh game in 14 or 15 days, whatever it will be. I think it was a major coaching blunder playing him vs. Russia, because he could've used the rest. Now he's going to have Kobe checking him their next game, although as I've always said, whoever guards Manu doesn't really matter because he gets that top of the key screen regardless, it's the second man and third that matter. USA could simply just double him every time and get the ball out of his hands.

Basically I imagine the game plan will be similar to how they played Greece: Shoot an assload of threes and pray for a miracle. On defense they'll pack the lane in tight and force the U.S. to shoot outside and they'll probably foul a lot as well. If they outshoot the U.S. by 20% from outside and keep their turnovers under 15, they have a tiny chance.

Because they have Manu, I'll give them a puncher's chance, but realistically speaking, they're probably hoping Spain beats Lithuania so they can maybe get a bronze.

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I missed the game this morning...

Does anyone know if the game will be replayed on TV later today?

"I'm comfortable with winning" - Manu Ginobili

by TdotSpursfan on Aug 20, 2008 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

All the games are available on NBC.com

You can even watch games that have been concluded. Here is a link to this morning’s Argentina-Greece game:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/share.html?videoid=1386431

I found it runs better in Internet Explorer. You need to have Silverlight installed, but that’s no big deal. I think it walks you through installing it if don’t already have it.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Aug 20, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish there was a live blog on the game between Argentina and Greece! It was so exciting!
A good analysis on a great game between two teams of high caliber!
Now I’m really look forward to Manu vs. Kobe. Two of the greatest 2 guards of their generation!

by senga1021 on Aug 20, 2008 12:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

How did Argentina Win?

I agree with Stampler, Greece looked like the better team in this one. Manu’s not himself right now. That layup he made to ice the game would have been rejected by Lebron, Dwight Howard, or Chris Bosh had he tried that against Team USA. Those threes he was taking, by and large, were not good shots. It reminds me a little of game 3 vs. LA, where he scored a bunch, but only because he hit some crazy 3s.

Those fadeaways that Carlos the Dolphin was making at the end were also low-percentage. If their game plan going into the Team USA game is to Iso Delfino against Kobe or Wade, they’re in a world of trouble. I’m not sure where the baskets will come from, though, because Scola will have trouble with Howard and Bosh’s length, and Manu’s not in good form.

In some previous posts I’ve stated that I would think it would take an act of God for them to beat the US (shooting 60+% from 3, injuries and foul outs from Team USA, etc). I hate to say it, but after watching all of Team USA’s games thus far, not only do I not see how Argentina can win this game, I don’t see how they can keep it close. Team USA is in a different class athletically.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Aug 20, 2008 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, I already talked about this game in the other thread, and I’m pretty much a biased homer, but I wonder about your comments, guys. This isn’t Argentina’s B game. Scola faded away for a big part of the game, we played suckass defense, and Nocioni was injured early on.

Manu’s teardrop that won us the game had a high, high arc. I mean, that Greek dude that jumped and tried to block it wasn’t a midget, was he? It was a crazy shot, but it was a classic Manu shot, and I don’t know why you’re so amazed that it was good. And those threes he made were nothing like the ones in the LA game. He’s been pretty consistent with his 3pters during the tournament – much like during the RS last season.

For the record, those were Delfino’s shots. He always takes those shots. Always. But he’s so streaky that one game he makes them, and the next he misses everything. That’s why he’s the Eternal Promise.

Oh, and this definitely wasn’t Greece’s C- game. Watched them against the US, China and Spain, and I don’t see how they played worse today than in those games. They hit big 3s, played stifling defense (as you said, Argentina had to make lots of tough shots) and their big men killed us over and over again. C-?

by LatinD on Aug 20, 2008 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Okay, I’ll tackle your points one by one, LatinD.

1. Ordinarily I would agree that this isn’t Argentina’s “B” game, but it was a “B” in terms of how they executed their game plan. The way they ran their offense, it seems clear that they decided they were going to just shoot a bunch of threes and see what happens because the team has no depth and no one has legs right now. The percentage they shot on their threes was very high, so therefore they get a B. Offensively they didn’t commit too many turnovers either. They finished with what, 80 points? That’s a pretty good offensive day when you only shoot 5 FTs and play at a slow pace, using most of the shot clock on every possession and not getting many fast break points. Defensively, they gave up a fairly high % to the Greece and lots of offensive rebounds, but given Greece’s size and muscle advantage, that wasn’t surprising at all.

2. Manu’s lay-up might have had a high arc, but that doesn’t change the fact that its release point was low. It just surprised his defender and by the time he could react the ball was already up there. You can shoot a missile a hundred miles up, but it still starts from however high the launch point is. And I wasn’t amazed he made it. At this point it’s pretty hard to be amazed by any shot he makes. I never argued that all his three point attempts were bad shots – that was somebody else’s argument – but out of 13, probably nine were good looks and four were Delfinoesque. Anyway you argue it, that’s a lot of fucking three point attempts and if he had his legs one would think he’d have driven a bit more.

3. I’ve seen six games worth of Mr. Delfino’s act in these Olympics and let’s just say I won’t miss him while he’s in Russia. How Nellie never recruited this guy to play for the Warriors, I’ll never know. He plays the same infuriating style they do.

4. It was a subpar performance from Greece in the respect that they should’ve done better with the quality looks they had and their three point defense was atrocious most of the night. Offensively a few of their turnovers could’ve been prevented and their best player laid an egg against a guy who would’ve been 3rd string on the depth chart if all of Argentina’s guys felt like playing for this coach. Greece had a better team, more depth and a better game plan. Argentina just had a few more skilled players, but their game plan was extremely risky. Generally it’s not a good idea to shoot like 30 three pointers and take 5 FTs.

by Aaronstampler on Aug 21, 2008 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You make good points, as always. Thanks for replying.

The Delfino comment was spot on. He’s the perfect Nellie ball guy, especially coming off the bench. But having watched a lot of Toronto’s games during the RS (they’re one of my favorite teams, way behind the Spurs of course) I’m amazed that they didn’t give him a contract for next year. I’ll be the first person to criticize Delfino’s shot selection and consistency, but he was money for them in some important games. I remember when they beat Boston and he was 6/6 from behind the arc, IIRC.

Also, they didn’t have many good players in their bench. Considering the kind of crap they have, Delfino was a good player to keep on court for 10 or 15 minutes every game.

by LatinD on Aug 21, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s right, Greece isn’t used to make a lot of 3 point shots, but it seemed everything they were launching found the net (they even hit a glass 3).

I see Argentina hanging tough with usa maybe the first 2 quarters. Then our lack of depth and tired legs will make the game a laugher for team usa. I hope im wrong, but in previous tournaments our bench was a strength, not a weakness. Manu is Manu, but he isn`t 26 anymore and is playing more minutes than ever.

by Chilai on Aug 20, 2008 4:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that off-the-glass prayer of a 3pt was a dagger through the heart.

by LatinD on Aug 20, 2008 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Guys, I'm rooting for Argentina too (except against the USA)

It’s not like I’m watching the game saying “Go Greece!” Manu is my favorite NBA player, second favorite all-time behind David Robinson, so I’m always pulling for him to do well. I met Fabricio when he had just signed, and welcomed him to San Antonio. I’m upset that we traded Scola and wish Nocioni played for the Spurs.

I’m just calling it the way I saw it. Manu doesn’t look like himself. He’s like 80% back, which is certainly better than the 40% Manu we saw in the Western Conference Finals. Delfino is fool’s gold—you know as well as I do that you can’t count on him coming through like that again. If I had told you before the game that for Argentina to win, you’d need 15 consecutive fourth quarter points from him, would you have believed it would happen?

I wouldn’t necessarily give Greece a C-. I thought both teams played about the same, pretty good but not great, but Greece’s baskets seemed to come a lot more easily. There were a number of sequences where Manu or Delfino would go 1-on-1 and make a difficult shot, then Greece would come back and get a layup or FTs.

We’ll see how Argentina fares against Team USA. I’d love for Manu go off and keep the game relatively close, but as I mentioned, this looks like a big-time blowout to me. Kobe defends Manu better than anyone else in the world, Nocioni is hurt, you’re going to see him or Fab or Delfino trying to deal with Lebron and Carmelo and DWade…

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Aug 20, 2008 10:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m a Spurs fan first, USA fan second. Enough Said.

www.sportzchat.com

by Linix129 on Aug 21, 2008 12:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Live Blog?

Are we going to do a live blog for the USA-Arg game? I’m used to us all cheering for the same team in here, it might get interesting if we have to cheer against each other.

I'm comfortable winning -- Emmanuel Ginobili

by pollackj on Aug 21, 2008 2:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I might. But we really didn’t have enough participation the first time.

by Aaronstampler on Aug 21, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be up for that

Might be entertaining, might be boring, might be a total disaster that fractures PtR along national, racial, and ethnic lines. The possibilities are endless.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Aug 21, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And do we really need people to cheer against Argentina? It’s like cheering for McDonald’s to serve more people in a given day than a mom & pop diner.

by Aaronstampler on Aug 21, 2008 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What if that Mom and Pop diner had served more people at the Restaurant World Cup in 2002 and 2004?

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Aug 21, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What if my dad worked at McDonalds?

I'm comfortable winning -- Emmanuel Ginobili

by pollackj on Aug 22, 2008 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait, I'm confused...

…does your dad play for Team USA? This metaphor has been stretched beyond my ability to comprehend it.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Aug 22, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the prices were comparable, who wouldn’t eat at a local place rather than mcdonald’s? It’s not like people like McD because it’s the best tasting food.

by Aaronstampler on Aug 21, 2008 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I’ve been to Mcdonalds 3 times…. each one worst than the other…
At least here in argentina its very expensive and the burguers are pure shit, i promised to never enter a mcdonalds again

by Chilai on Aug 21, 2008 7:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs