Spurs Give Up on Quest to Get Better, Resign Michael Finley
by sungo on Aug 15, 2008 5:25 PM CDT
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Micheal Finley is 35. He'll turn 36 during the 08-09 season. Players typically do not improve from age 35 to 36. Therefore, the Spurs just willingly got worse. Which is great, because we really had surplus awesome last year.
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Meh
I don’t even no what to type. I’ve got too much going on to really care, after all this is just a sport and/or a form of entertainment. However, I’m not really surprised because it’s blatantly obvious that Gregg Popovich disdains younger players especially on the wings, so whatever. I’m gonna be posting this for awhile, but I got a bad feeling about the 2008-2009 season and it’s starting to look like the beginning of the end.
It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin
It’s like the FO just released tear gas onto the crowd and everyone has to breathe in and find ways to enjoy it.
I was more excited about the 1986 season. This is the first time I can recall losing this much interest in the Spurs.
It’s hard to see how the FO has not thrown in the towel and decided to ride the Big 3 into the sunset. It’s like they’ve just fucking given up.
FinnnnnnnnnnnDoggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Aug 15, 2008 9:20 PM CDT reply actions
"Finley passes up on the 3, dribbles, fadeaway 14 footer… just off the mark. "
“Finley dribbles in traffic, rises up, off the rim no good.”
I can’t wait!
by r21x on Aug 15, 2008 11:18 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Refusing to give in to negativity
Can we choose to remember a certain buzzer beating 3 pointer that our favorite Billy Ocean look-alike made to send Game 1 vs the Suns into overtime?
It’s a stretch, and slightly silly to even say, but maybe it was decided that one more year in S.A. was sufficient payback for being able to put the Suns away like that. After all, signing aging players to one more year than they can actually contribute is pretty much the MO of the FO. Asking them to do something different would be tantamount to asking them to stop being who they are.
"When it comes to amazingly talented, large-nosed, balding, South American basketball players who play with tons of heart, guts and brains -- you're helpless."
"Yes, I sob without shame."
I'll play good cop to Matthew's bad cop.
Just because they resigned him doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll play. He could very well fill the Steve Smith role of ‘02-03. I remember discussing this in SpursTalk a month or two ago and really, I think Finley could have a viable role on the team – that of filling in for Manu in the games he’s hurt/resting.
Think about it. We know Manu’s not going to play 82 games. It just ain’t gonna happen, no matter how much we wish it so. Hell, there has even been talk within the organization of sitting him out of some segababas or fogafinis. We could very well only play Fin in garbage time of regular games, if we play him at all, and then give him Manu’s minutes (or Mason’s minutes with Fin getting the left over Mason minutes) in the games The Great One misses.
In short, he could be Manu’s understudy. Theoretically it could work.
Sadly, with Pop, I fear this idea is a pipe dream.
On the bright side, at least PtR will be entertaining next year with all of Matthew’s rants, and I’m guessing I might express the occasional grouse or two.
If there was a Thumbs Down button on my keyboard
Id be pressing it right now.
On the positive side, Jennaro Pargo is going to Russia for a year, so we dodged that bullett.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Aug 16, 2008 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
just have to say
That the title of this post is the epitome of the Spurs’ offseason, and that blows.
i dont think there is any question that finey’s role with the team will be smaller this year given the offseason activity. was this signing somehow a surprise? i’d rather have someone else too, but gosh guys, it aint that bad.
i dont think there is any question that finey’s role with the team will be smaller this year
Sadly, with Pop, I fear this idea is a pipe dream.
by sungo on Aug 16, 2008 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're right, Powell...
…Pop is a bozo who doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. He couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag. The front office couldn’t run a team in fantasy football, let alone in the NBA. Our team is run by the biggest collection of ass-clowns on God’s green earth. I would give anything to be a Knicks fan, or a Suns fan, or a Mavs fan. At least they don’t have to put up with those annoying championship parades every other year.
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
I still can’t believe we didn’t sign Ryan Bowen.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Aug 16, 2008 7:34 PM CDT reply actions
So we sign him for more than one year and at more than the vet minimum, and the best we can say about it is that hopefully Pop won’t play him much next year?
If we’re signing a player we don’t expect to play much then why not get someone who is younger and will get better? As in anyone with potential.
If we had great scoring options on the wing other than Manu then signing Finley would be fine, in theory, but we still need scoring on the wing and everyone knows Finley will not produce. Everyone that is but the FO who would rather ride out this lineup then have the headache of having to develop new talent. Screw that, that’s what Europe is for.
Defending this move is polishing a turd.
Attacking this move is like beating up on a cripple. You know you are going to win, but it really doesn’t say anything about your fighting abilities. It’s just a gimme in which you prove nothing.
How about this as a challenge? Who SHOULD the FO signed instead for the money? Let’s assume that FinDog signed for 2 years at 2 mill per. GO!
I’ll start:
Pargo – um, no.
James White – um, no.
Keith Langford – no, again
DerMarr Johnson – nope
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Aug 17, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I’d rather have Langford or Johnson. And you’re leaving out an entire list of guys in the NBDL and Europe. Finley is a SG who cannot create his own, is not a plus defender, has an awful TS% and is not going to get better. The worst part is that neither he nor the front office realize this, so when he plays they run sets for him and he wastes possessions. You think the Spurs would ever run a play for Langford or Johnson? They wouldn’t, which saves possessions.
So, you are really saying that Michael Finley is NOT better for the Spurs than Keith Langford or DerMarr Johnson because he is actually BETTER and they would try to USE him as opposed to NOT using him?
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Aug 17, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
No. I think DerMarr Johnson and Keith Langford are actually better than Michael Finley at the current stages of their respective careers. However, even if they weren’t, it is quite possible that the Spurs would be better off replacing Finley with no one. That may sound crazy, but ask yourself this:
A) Would the Spurs have been better off in the 2006 playoffs if Pop did not have the option of NVE?
B) Would the Spurs have been better off in the 2008 playoffs if Pop did not have the option of Robert Horry?
The answers to both those questions is a resounding and obvious yes.
What’s especially troubling is that the Spurs have to replace the minutes given to Finley and Brent Barry. There’s no way Pop is going to give all those minutes to Mason, no matter how good he is. That kid ain’t playing 30 MPG no matter how good he is.
I believe you are putting forward two opinions here that are very interesting:
1. DerMarr Johnson and Keith Langford, among a host of NBDL and Euro players, are better than Michael Finley.
2. Gregg Popovich doesn’t do a good job of managing the players on the team. In fact, you are saying that he is so bad at it that the front office — who also includes Popovich unfortunately — should preemptively make decisions for him by not filling out the roster because he would invariable play the wrong player.
The confounding part for me is that I’m not sure I really disagree with you. One, because I was VERY disappointed in the way FinDog played in the playoffs after the first round. Two, because I was disappointed EVERY time Robert Horry went on the floor in the playoffs.
Which makes me wonder, if every time somebody who is playing isn’t playing well, does that necessarily mean that somebody else on the team would play well?
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Aug 17, 2008 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
DerMarr Johnson and Keith Langford, among a host of NBDL and Euro players, are better than Michael Finley.
Michael Finley, who almost is never asked to create his own shot, has a TS% of 51.%, good for 47th out of 67 qualified SGs. He had a per of 11.46, good for 47th out of 67 qualified SGs. He had a rebound rate of 6.8, good for 34th out of 67 qualified SGs. His assist ratio of 11.8 is 59th out of 67. And there is absolutely no reason to think he’ll be better next year.
Which makes me wonder, if every time somebody who is playing isn’t playing well, does that necessarily mean that somebody else on the team would play well?
The player playing in Finley’s place would not be asked to do what Finley does. He would not attempt 20 foot fade aways. Addition by subtraction.
I think a lot of Matthew’s points revolve around Pop’s indefensible stubbornness when it comes to veterans in critical situations… yes, back in 2006, NVE did have savvy & experience, but he was missing something which is also critical to quality NBA play… that little thing we usually call “knee cartilage”.
Yes, Pop may have made some good decisions in the past decade, but the vast majority of his poor decisions follow the same pattern; he mercilessly skews mistakes by younger players and benches them with the slightest excuse, yet he inexplicably forgives similar missteps by older players, and insists on playing them well past their endurance and effectiveness.
With the exception of Horry’s game 5 in the Detroit finals, what veteran signing really had a positive impact on the team? I’ve always been a fan of Brent, but he’s gone now. Finley’s been a wash at best – if it wasn’t for Manu’s unique “starter-off-the-bench” position, then MF would have been 8th or 9th on the rotation on any normal team.
Mainly, from my point of view, it pisses me off that Popovich gets so much credit for signing Manu and TP when no one else even had them on their radar, but he hasn’t done crap since then; it makes it worse that it was primarily his staff which pushed Pop to get Manu and TP, many of whom have moved on to other teams since then. Granted, getting the rights to Beno and Scola COULD have worked out well, but the FO managed to fritter them away with nothing more than a couple dollars to put against the salary cap.
Last year’s signing of Damon Stoudamire kinda highlites this – Popovich would NEVER have signed a player like Stoudamire when he was 24… but once he’s over 30, and can’t move like he used to… it apparently doesn’t matter that his style of play is exactly wrong for the Spurs. Well, give Pop credit for not playing him much. But he should never have been signed in the first place. If he was 6 years younger, Pop wouldn’t have given him a second’s consideration.
chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.
thanx 4 Pritchard
"Next up, an event we will be following this through Celtic training camp: the Trail Blazers’ fan base competes in sychronized sweating."
--- LaoTzu on Aug 22, 2008 11:51 AM PDT
A large part of what makes Pop a successful coach is that guys will execute his schemes and put forth maximum effort for him. And I think that stems in large part from the fact that the guys know that Popovich trusts them and believes in them. Sticking with a guy too long is an unfortunate side effect. On the whole, though, this philosophy is clearly more beneficial than it is detrimental for the Spurs.
The answer to your questions for A) is that obviously, yes. The Spurs could have played 4-on-5 and been better off without NVE. With B), it’s hard to say; yes, Horry was awful, but he didn’t shoot very much either, and didn’t really make any critical mistakes. He did hit a couple of big 3s in game 7 against NOOCH. It’s doubtful that the Spurs would have gotten a whole lot more from Bonner or Fab, or from a Tinyball lineup, and some of the matchups would have been difficult for KT.
You may counter that it sure would have been nice to have had Luis Scola as an option. I would have to agree with that. I’m still not really sure what they were thinking with the Scola trade, but in general scheme of FO screwups, it’s pretty minor. Nowhere on par with, say, drafting Darko ahead of DWade, Bosh, and ’Melo, or trading Devin Harris for JKidd.
What front office has a perfect record? You might cite Portland’s amassing young talent, or Seattle OKC amassing draft picks, or Houston’s various moves. However, none of those teams has won a championship recently. Their front office acumen is entirely theoretical at this point.
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
*sigh*
it makes sense for this to happen.
not from a basketball perspective of course, but from a “what do you expect to happen” perspective. so even though its disappointing to hear, its not a shock to the system.
and i think that says something about the spurs.
by sleep research facility on Aug 17, 2008 11:52 PM CDT reply actions
Evolution is often punctuated by catastrophe. Hopefully we’ll evolve from this latest incident towards a new species of Spurs fans who are more resilient, I guess.
On another level, Pop always preaches for players to get over himself. Is there an irony here, that he isn’t able to get over himself? The stubborness in these moves is astounding. Either that, or he keeps forgetting that unlike a bottle of wine NBA players don’t always improve with age.
Wa-a-a-a-h for the Spurs
At least you have Timmy. Think of what those suckers who call themselves Knicks fans must be going through. The west just got a little easier with old man Finley active. I know LeBron was so happy he did a little dance …LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl4vXgwsxPM
the thing that really frustrates me about the Spurs
Here’s a list of guys the spurs have passed on in the years in favor of the “rights” to guys who will never play in the NBA:
Ronny Turiaf
Anderson Varejao
Leandro Barbosa
Josh Howard
Luke Walton
Kinda sad, huh? They all have their flaws, but at least we’d be moving forward.
I think Finley will be one of the key pieces that stops the Spurs from winning the title this upcoming season. The supporting cast just isn’t good enough, there’s too much pressure on Duncan/Ginobili/Parker, they need just a little bit more help and it’s hard to see where that’s going to come from. Depressing.
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