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Argies looking shockingly uncrappy.

Don't look now kiddies, but Equipo de Emanuel David Ginobili have been absolutely playing kickass balencesto for the last oh 83 minutes of international competition. It might have been easy - even tempting - to dismiss the team after their bummer loss to Lithuania, a team with 0 current NBA players no less, but they've rebounded to beat the snot out of the Kangaroos and the Croats.

All of a sudden the guys are whipping the ball around on passes and playing great team defense again. Croatia came into the game shooting lights out from three and Argentina never really game them any open looks from there. It was almost a Spurs-type defensive performance, minus the dirty fouls from Bowen (Yeah, I went there. Whatcha gonna do about it?). Even their fat, unathletic backup centers, Ramon Gonzalez and  Leonardo Gutierrez, gave them some decent minutes off the bench. Their point guard Pablo Prigioni, who I was so down on after the first game, had his second straight decent game, running the team capably, playing very good defense, not forcing up any bad shots and basically giving it to Manu and getting the hell out of the way. Chapu was a monster all game and they got the required scoring from Scola in the first half (before he fell victim to the usual foul trouble) and Delfino in the second.

Really, Argentina's situation is very similar to that of the Spurs. They won in '04 not just because they had the three stars in Gino, Scola and Nocioni, but also because they were deep. Besides Fab and Delfino (who really wasn't a big player for them back then) they also had Pepe Sanchez running point masterfully so Manu didn't have to be the primary ball handler. As good as Sanchez played in '04, he was even better in the '06 World Championships, where he was probably the team's most consistent performer. He was knocking down like every open three in that tournament, and that one weakness - his shooting - had always been the reason it didn't work out for him in the NBA. Behind Sanchez they had Alejandro Montecchia, who wasn't much of a point, but he was a deadly spot up shooter, and he had 11 big points against the U.S. in the semi-finals. Also, they had Walter Hermann as the backup forward, an energy guy who could score inside and out, like Nocioni, plus Ruben Wolkywski, who was basically the Argentine Bill Laimbeer, a big banger inside who had a surprisingly smooth stroke from 20 feet.

It was a nine man team and that helped them a lot in not getting fatigued throughout the games and the tournament. Now, though, all four of those role players are gone, either because they're not happy with the coaching or other personal reasons. The problem is that for whatever reason Argentina has been unable to develop a next generation of players of quality to take their place. You would think a whole gaggle of teenagers would've been inspired by the performances of the '02 and '04 squads, but apparently they've all been watching Lionel Messi and Juan Pablo Riquelme. Not only has Argentina been unable to find the next Manu, they can't even find the next Hermann. That's sad.

Now look at the Spurs. Same deal. We've got the big three, and two of them are as good as ever. But the bench got real old real fast and the management has been either unwilling or unable to find their replacements. Just this offseason they've started to try a little bit (George Hill's game is eerily similar to Prigioni's) but probably not enough to make a difference. It's hard to fancy Argentina's chances against deep versatile teams like Spain or the U.S., no matter how well they've played these last two games, and I'm not sure what the Spurs will do against the Lakers, Rockets or Hornets next year after the way they've improved their rosters.

One thing is for certain: In a perfect world China would beat Germany in their next game and that way Greece can take a dive and lose to China in their last group game. That would let China finish 3-2 for 3rd place in Group A and Greece finish 2-3 for 4th place. That would mean in the second round China would get 4-1 Argentina and Greece would get 5-0 Lithuania (again, I repeat, a team of 0 NBAers).

This would be ideal for everyone and certainly for my household. As it stands now I fear Greece will finish 3-2 for 3rd place and will almost certainly face Argentina in the 2nd round, putting me in the uncomfortable position of rooting against Manolis when my home country isn't even involved. I'd rather that not happen.

Anywho, today's game was only Part I of Stampler's awesome Thursday sportapalooza, as you're no doubt aware that my Iggles are playing their second preseason game against Carolina tonight, on Fox! Be there or be ... somewhere else?

 

 

 

 

 

 

0 recs  |  Comment 21 comments

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good job illustrating the parallels between the two teams.

but seriously, preseason football?

gospursgo. hook 'em. metal rules. ganja rules.

by metalandganja on Aug 14, 2008 7:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

pre-season football < NBA Summer League presented by EA Sports

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Aug 14, 2008 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

C’mon now, pre-season is great for at least the first 30 seconds as you’re realizing that you haven’t seen any live football on TV since February. Then, unfortunately, you quickly see that the only guys really trying are the 4th stringers. But those first 30 seconds are quite the thrill.

That being said — have I just never noticed before, or has McNabb spent extra time in the gym this offseason? Because, dude has some serious glutes. He’s like the Serena Williams of male athletes.

"When it comes to amazingly talented, large-nosed, balding, South American basketball players who play with tons of heart, guts and brains -- you're helpless."
"Yes, I sob without shame."

by jollyrogerwilco on Aug 15, 2008 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

McNabb and all of his receivers not named DeSean Jackson sucked today, but what an exciting 4th quarter! Almost made watching a four hour game worth it as Eagles score 24 unanswered to win 24-13.

That’s how sick of an Iggles fan I am. I can watch them play pre-season games all day, but the second it’s another team playing, I can’t stand it for more than five or ten minutes. I imagine it’s the same way with us for the Spurs.

by Aaronstampler on Aug 15, 2008 2:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

is that DeSean Jackson from Cal? Dude runs like the wind. Some serious jets. The next (return dud efrom the Bears whose name I am forgetting at the moment). OK, maybe not. but he can fly.

by bones on Aug 15, 2008 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Devin Hester..

..is his name and uh…no

by vy til i die on Aug 15, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like to think that the next generation of good Argentine basketball players is still 5 to 10 years away, if you meant kids that grew up watching Gino kick ass. That said, I think this will be the last Olympics for this team, so we’ll have to find a new team like it or not. I imagine Argentina B is good enough to beat all the American teams (“American” as in “from America”, not “USAian” – God I hate that you freaks took that word and used it like that) except of course the US. And only a handful of European teams will give us trouble, foremost amongst those would be Spain.

Spain is enjoying the fruits of having what is probably the most competitive league beyond the NBA. That’s clever of them, and they do pretty much the same thing with football.

Anyway, regarding the Olympics, I like out chances till the semi-finals. Beating Spain will be hard, but it could happen. We’re always close.

Beating the US is pretty much a fantasy at this point. We could win if the US beat themselves, only. Like if Kobe and LeBronze started duking it out on the court. And killed Wade with a dodged blow.

by LatinD on Aug 15, 2008 7:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

what’s “a dodged blow” ?

"When it comes to amazingly talented, large-nosed, balding, South American basketball players who play with tons of heart, guts and brains -- you're helpless."
"Yes, I sob without shame."

by jollyrogerwilco on Aug 15, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah… I had this image in my mind, but it failed. John Woo, I ain’t.

by LatinD on Aug 15, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Argentines are so adorable. I knew where you were going, LD.

by SgtinManusArmy on Aug 15, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If anyone can/will beat the USA, Its Argentina if you ask me. I’m not too impressed with Spain personally. I think that Manu’s charges will drill them if they get the shot.

They are suddenly looking much better – I don’t follow them as a fanatic, but ARG seems to start slow, perhaps sandbag a little, and then turn it up when they need it. If ARG-USA meet (gold medal game or not) i say it will be a very good one.

Prigioni would have problems at point agaist the American pressure, but ARG will adjust to make it work.

by bones on Aug 15, 2008 8:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No way...

…will Argentina “drill” the United States. Last time around, Manu was the best player in the tournament, and all the Argies were younger, and they had a competent PG. Manu’s still very good, but he’s not 2004 Manu. Prigioni may play well for Tau, but he’s been a turnover machine in the Olympics. Meanwhile, the US fielded the worst possible team they could have reasonably put together, and shot a terrible percentage from 3 and from the FT line, and still lost a relatively close contest.

This year, Lebron and DWade have been far and away the best players in the tournament. Richard Jefferson and Shawn Marion are out, Kobe Bryant and Lebron James are in. For crying out loud, Stephon Marbury played PG for that team! Just swapping him for Chris Paul is worth at least 5 points a game. The only theoretical advantage the 2004 team had was TD, but he was barely a factor due to extremely biased inconsistent FIBA officiating.

This year, on their worst day, the US team is 15+ points a game better than the 2004 version. The Argentine team is not as good as the 2004 version.

Like LatinD says above, I think it would practically take an act of God for an Argentina upset. Something like Lebron and DWade both being injured or in very early foul trouble, and Argentina shooting 50+% from 3, and Team USA shooting under 30% from 3 and under 60% from the FT line. If all those happen, I still think it would be a close game, but Argentina could sneak by in the end.

Spain’s a different story; to beat Team USA, I think they would have needed to bring their A+ game against a C game from Team USA. Los hermanos Gasol would have to go crazy inside and rack up fouls on Howard and Bosh, and they’d have to shoot well from the perimeter.

The problem for Spain is now, thanks to their ludicrously offensive slanty-eyes photo and OT victory over the hosts, they’ll be Public Enemy #1 against the adored American stars. That will be quite the turnaround from Athens, where Iraq-invading Team USA played the villains. Spain will face constant boos, which I’m sure will influence the officiating. The crowd will go crazy every time Kobe or Lebron dunk the ball. Don’t run out and bet your house or anything, but I’ll be surprised if Team USA wins by fewer than 10 tomorrow morning.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Aug 15, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

    Upgrading to CP3 from Starbury alone is probably worth 15+ ppg… not 5. It boggles me occasionally that people don’t see that players like Marbury actively HURT the team they play for. They see someone superficially talented with a fast dribble, streaky jumper, occasional circus shot, and shaved head or cornrows, and they suddenly think “All-Star” for some strange reason, no matter how much the team loses ground with them on the court. It’s a severe pet peeve of mine.

    Argentina beating the US at this point would be comparable to the US beating the Soviet Union in hockey back in 80. It’s not impossible, per se,.. it just ain’t too likely. Manu would have to shake loose 3+ years of wear-and-tear, Scola and Fabo would have to use every bit of trickery they know to keep spinning Howard and Bosh around, and we’d have to witness an uncanny display of preternatural timing and passing from the Argentinians. And LeBron would probably need to blow an ACL… and the US would have to recruit and sub-in Marbury (or Vince Carter) at some point.

    Basically… not gonna happen without somebody fiddling around with the IOC bylaws, or, failing that, the fundamental laws of probability and causation.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on Aug 15, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

tomasito’s word ring true to me. That said, it could happen. During the regular season Boston dropped some pretty stupid games against inferior teams…

If this were a best-of-3 tournament, there would be zero chances of someone taking the gold away from the US. As it is, in a win-or-go-home tournament, there’s always a windows open. I mean… Greece beat the US in the World Cup. Who saw that coming?

by LatinD on Aug 15, 2008 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i meant that ARG would drill Spain

neither of them will drill the US……..

by bones on Aug 16, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 on the 15 ppg

It would most definately take some kind of dodged blow to topple Team USA.

by SgtinManusArmy on Aug 15, 2008 2:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Lituania

At this point I see the lituanians as more capable of upseting the Team Usa than Argentina or Spain. Their team is a good match up against the united statians (im with latinD on this one, americans are from ALL america, not only united states…. also Canada and Mexico are in “north america”)
Tomorrow the spaniards are going to LOSE badly, reading their comments they seem to respect Team Usa too much, and they are happy to hang in there and not get blown out. Thats a recipe for failure.

by Chilai on Aug 15, 2008 5:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Juan Pablo????

Excuse me buddies, it’s Juan ROMAN Riquelme.

VAMOS ARGENTINA!!! Please visit my blog @ http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com

by sivanjohn on Aug 18, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

a thousand apologies. Although lately he hasn’t played well enough for me to know his name. That team is pretty much the Lionel Messi show.

by Aaronstampler on Aug 19, 2008 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never liked Riquelme, myself. To me he slows down the team with his style. That said, he’s a well-known player and has won pretty much every international tournament with Boca Juniors. Twice.

Regardless, saying that Argentina is nothing but Messi right now, considering it has players like Mascherano and Agüero is crazy talk. Agüero might’ve had a shitty tournament, but he just scored two goals against Brazil and got the penalty for the third, not to mention he’s one of the best players of the Spanish league.

by LatinD on Aug 20, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Having just finished watching Argentina – Greece, I have to say I’m very proud of my team. Greece was amazing – at some points they simply didn’t seem able to miss from 3 – but we still prevailed.

Nocioni was a beast. He was hobbling most of the game, literally playing on one leg in some stretches. Boy, I’d love him for the Spurs. He’s the very definition of a competitor.

Delfino is a guy that I never really liked. He’s inconsistent, he’s a bit of a prima donna, and he’s perpetually stuck in the “promising” category. And yet he played his ass off today, and kept the team ahead single-handedly in the 4th. He was the one Argentine that simply couldn’t miss, either, in that quarter.

Scola is a great player. It still hurts to see him playing for the freakin’ Rockets. Now that they have Artest they could be a contender. …Nah.

And last but not least, Gino was the Gino you guys know and love. I’m sure you’ll be happy to know that. He’s got his 3pt back, he penetrated a few times, he hustled… Again, he’s Manu Ginobili, and we’ll be able to enjoy his game in the Spurs for a few more years. I love this guy.

We have no chances of beating the US. I know that. We have no bench, we’re outskilled in every category, and we’re tired and older. But I’m going to believe in my team to the very end. If there’s a group of 5 guys that can pull off a sports miracle of this magnitude, it’s this one.

by LatinD on Aug 20, 2008 11:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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