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Ron Artest == Black Culture?

That’s not going to change. I’m never going to change my culture. Yao has played with a lot of black players, but I don’t think he’s ever played with a black player that really represents his culture as much as I represent my culture.

The question, really, is what is Ron Artest's culture? Ron implies in his statement that he "represents black culture". Is that really true? I'm a white man and I ask that question because I really want to know. Does Ron Artest represent black culture? And really, what is black culture? A few anecdotes over the years that have made me really think about ethnic differences:

  • In the late 70's, when James Harris was the quarterback for the LA Rams, I asked my dad why there weren't more black quarterbacks? He said, "because they aren't smart enough". So, I didn't exactly come from the most forward thinking home.
  • I grew up in San Antonio, which even in the early 80's was at least 40% hispanic. My basketball team in high school had a 50/50 split. 7 white guys, 7 black guys, and 1 Hispanic.
  • In my third year of college at Texas A&M (not exactly a bastion of racial diversity) I was taking a class that was required to become a Resident Advisor -- one of those people who lived in the dorm that were in charge of making sure you stayed mostly out of trouble -- and part of the class was learning about ethnic diversity. A woman, an African-American woman (though in the 80's it was 'black') came to our class and discussed ethnic diversity. The metaphor she used was that culture was like a salad. And the salad was made up of a mix of various components that all retained their individual indentity. And that together they made an interesting thing. That they weren't a mix of ingredients that were then blended, like a soup, where the identity of the ingredients were lost. This made sense to me. The next day at lunch, a black guy I had known since elementary school, and who was taking the same class, asked me what I thought of the lecture. I said, "I thought it was pretty interesting. I hadn't thought of things that way". He said, "I thought it was complete bullshit."
  • The same year, as part of the same class, I went to see a speech/presentation/lecture about cultural diversity. The speaker was a black man who, if I recall correctly, was the highest ranking black executive at Ford Motor Company. The punchline of his lecture that has stuck with me after all these years was that he said, and I'm paraphrasing, "We worked our butts off for 100 years to be Negro with a capital 'N' and now we want to be black with a little 'b'."
  • In 1999, an African-American woman wrote an article for Sporting News (I think it was Sporting News) about the NFL Draft and how Ricky Williams slipped to the 5th spot because he was "too black". Ricky Williams got drafted after 3 other black players. Two of whom were quarterbacks. I never understood what "too black" meant.
  • From 1999-2005, I worked with an African-American woman from Dallas South Oak Cliff. I'm in the software industry. She was one of the quality assurance engineers on our team. She was tough. She was sweet. I thought she was black. I could give her grief for saying things like, "I just got my nails did". I would come back with, "you just got your nails done." She said, "No, you get your nails DID." One of the more interesting stories she told me was of the parents of the richy-rich parents of her volleyball team's players saying, "you know, you speak very well." She related the story and just laughed, as if to say, "Poor dumb rich white people".

I don't know Ron Artest. I can't really judge his values. I just want to know what black culture is. The Bling? Dr. J? Ray Lewis? David Robinson? Prison-style tats? Bill Russell? Shaq? Tim Duncan? My African-American neighbor? The white kid next door who wears his pants so his crack shows? The rednecks in Bastrop who fight dogs? My techno-weenie retired military African-American co-worker? My co-workers who smoke pot? My Baptist co-workers? Who of these people does Ron Artest claim to represent? What culture does he represent more than they do? Do the African-American players on the Spurs NOT represent their culture? Are they slackers for not representing their culture more?

There is no doubt in my mind that we live in a racist society. I have no doubt that minorities are denied jobs because of their race. I have no doubt that minorities have to work harder than a white man just to get as far. I think one of the great fallacies of every racist argument is to take one or two -- or even a handful of -- anecdotes and apply it to an entire ethnicity as a way to justify your racist opinion. Any justification that says, "I knew this one guy" or "One time this guy" is complete shit. No one person represents an ethnicity. No 12 people represent an ethnicity. I don't represent White Culture. No person who claims to represent White Culture represents me. Yes, I know I used a capital 'W' and a capital 'C' for White Culture and a little 'b' and a little 'c' for black culture. It seemed natural to do. What does that tell you? I won't go back an edit it out like I know I should.

No matter how much I would like to claim I'm ethnically neutral, I know I can't. I know that I have to fight it constantly. I know I have to constantly monitor myself, not because I think I'm a superior white male, but because I've been raised in a society that rewards me for my white maleness. I won't deny it. I can't. I have benefited from being both white and male. But damn it, nobody is going to say that they represent my white male culture and have me agree with them. So, I ask again, what is the Black Culture that Ron Artest represents more than any other black player who has played with Yao?

 

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That’s not going to change. I’m never going to change my culture. Yao has played with a lot of black players, but I don’t think he’s ever played with a black player that really represents his culture as much as I represent my culture.

I think this is the meat of the quote here. HIS culture versus MY culture. Ron Artest has shown that he is consistently selfish and fundamentally at odds with the world around him. You can’t really take what he has to say seriously.

by Zantox on Jul 31, 2008 10:36 PM CDT   0 recs

Does this mean Ron is referring to his own personal culture, i.e. “Ron Artest Culture,” and not “Black American Culture?”

by Gino20 on Aug 2, 2008 12:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You just completely plagarized that post from the closing argument in ‘A Time To Kill,’ you racist bastard.

by SgtinManusArmy on Jul 31, 2008 10:45 PM CDT   0 recs

Sorry, I haven’t seen the movie.

by AusTechSpur on Jul 31, 2008 11:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Responding to this post is like dismantling a time bomb...with tweezers.

I’ll be curious to see who is more black when the regular season heats up – Rafer Alson or Ron Artest.

And does Bobby Sura still play for the Rockettes? If so, I nominate Sura for most black player on the Rockets prior to Ron’s arrival.

Allez Spurs!

by JustinBK on Jul 31, 2008 10:58 PM CDT   0 recs

So beating up fans is black culture?

www.sportzchat.com

by Linix129 on Jul 31, 2008 11:08 PM CDT   0 recs

A very honest view in an odd setting

Mad props for writing this and posting it even after you reread it. This is the exact sort of question that enters my mind when insanely ignorant fools try to “represent” their people. I’m also glad that you recognize that even with the more tolerant and accepting society we live in now, racism is still prevalent, a living breathing dragon of hate that lurks just beneath the surface of everyday conversations and actions. It seriously doesn’t help when the Ron Artests of the world think the way they live is culture. Nice post, unfortunately, only Ron Artest can answer it for you. (Lurker for months, first time comment)

by interrohater on Aug 1, 2008 1:11 AM CDT   0 recs

Ron Artest = Batshit insane

I’m a black man and I don’t have any clue of what Ron is talking about. Growing up in a particular neighborhood or rushing into the stands to attack fans doesn’t represent a culture. To truly represent a culture you have to know what you are talking about and you have to carry yourself with a certain level of class in my opinion. Ron is just batshit crazy. Nothing more and nothing less.

It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin

by DennardC on Aug 1, 2008 3:19 AM CDT   0 recs

Good post ATS

It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin

by DennardC on Aug 1, 2008 3:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Blaxploitation...

...as someone who believes that most people these days are all too willing to accept whatever the mass market labels them as, I tend to be really cynical whenever somebody declares themselves to be of a certain identity. I’ve found in my short time on the planet that most people stress their individuality, then immediately follow their declaration up by doing something that lumps them in with a group of people I like to call the “lowest common denominator”, or people who behave how marketing dollars say they should.

Without leaning too far on the racial spectrometer, I will say that I’ve never understood people feeling the need to represent their race or ethnicity, as it is something that you don’t get to choose when you’re born. Most people fail to realize that they could have just as easily been Irish, or Portuguese, or Black, or Rich, or what have you. So to me, feeling the need to identify yourself and your assumed prerogatives concerning your racial identity is stupid, and borderline racist in and of itself.

While I can understand Ron Artest’s desire to defend his past and future actions, I find the fact that he does it by saying it’s defined by something as arbitrary as his ethnicity to be shortsighted and ridiculous. Ron’s attempt to equate his often ludicrous behavior with his race shortchanges the many black people I know who feel that actions and justifications such as his only perpetuate an assumption held by many racists. He would be doing himself and many others a favor by not blaming his own past stupidity on some phantom ethnic disposition.

Again, I don’t want to make too many assumptions, as I am a white male, but I feel like the blacks’ struggle over the past century and a half to be viewed as equals could be equated to building a house of cards. What has been achieved thus far has taken much due diligence and patience, but a wrong move here or there can set the process back quite a bit. As I mentioned, there are many ignorant people out there, and for Ron to act this way only throws fuel on their fire, and in the big picture does not make the world a better place.

Way to go Ron…. dumbass…

"I like to use my pump fake to make them come hard, that's when I use my penetration." -Manu Ginobili

by scrappy-doo on Aug 1, 2008 3:22 AM CDT   0 recs

Well said.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Aug 1, 2008 10:33 AM CDT   0 recs

artest still has not learned a single thing from his suspension.

another example of when keeping it real, goes wrong

What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)

the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post

by Hamer_SpursFan on Aug 1, 2008 2:27 PM CDT   0 recs

I think taking anything Ron Ron says seriously is a red herring. He is the ultimate walking conversation piece. He sparked this kind of chat on Sactown Royalty for the last couple of years as well.

Can you take his championing of anything seriously? This is the same guy who wanted a month off from his multi million dollar job to go promote his indy rap label.

He thinks how he’d like reality to actually play out, then just pretends thats how it is. Unfortunately it doesn’t really resemble the truth. For example in the same interview with Sam Amick he warbled away with this gem….

If you go back to the brawl, that’s a culture issue right there. Somebody was disrespecting me, so he’s got to understand where I’m coming from. People that know me know that Ron Artest never changed.

Does anyone here think that Ron going into the stands to put his fist through the back of some guys head was because he was a champion of black culture? Apparently Ron does…...Or more likely thats just the rationalisation he came up with at the time.

I particularly love the last line.

People that know me know Ron Artest never changed.

I don’t have the grey matter left to go through that and figure out why thats important to his championing of black culture or his explaining away his 73 Game suspension.

I thought what you said (Austech) was really interesting at the end of that post. Particularly regarding your white male status. I would love to have discussed that situation more but i Just don’t have enough knowledge of the states other than what the media feeds us out here in the rest of the world. I suppose thats more like looking through a glass bottom boat at the big ticket issues over in the USA.

I spent about a day in Dallas and a 3 days in L.A total this lifetime so it’s not something i feel i can speak about. All i can really take issue here is with Ron Ron.

I Don’t have a clue what Ron Artests culture is, but i would bet all my pacific pesos that very few of it’s members would vote for him to represent it.

by Bushka on Aug 1, 2008 6:20 PM CDT   0 recs

I don’t think Ron Artest represents black culture any more than Matthew Powell does (after all, he calls me Stampizzle) so yeah, I guess basically I agree with most people here that he’s a batshit crazy psychopath, a guy we need to ridicule from afar and be terrified of up close.

I would say that if Ron Artest were speaking for me or my race I’d probably be fairly annoyed with him, but he doesn’t, so I can’t really speak for other people and how they feel about it. I mean, how many African-Americans would need to be polled about these comments to get a fair sample size? A thousand? Ten thousand? Wouldn’t the overwhelming runaway number one response be “Who the hell is Ron Artest?”

I will say, as a Turkish person who moved to California in 1984, that I find the whole concept of black culture in the U.S. absurd, just like I do white culture, or Latino culture or gay culture or whatever. The country is too freakin’ big and each state is like it’s own mini country. To say the U.S. is one culture would be like saying Europe is one culture. I’m fairly certain “black culture” in Bumfuck, Alabama means something entirely different than black culture in Michigan which means something entirely different in New York, San Francisco, what have you. Black people are different from state to state and from generation to generation, same as white people, and every other ethnic group. We have so much immigration and change in this country that norms and fashions and styles are constantly changing.

What I think about social behavior in general are that people, for the most part, are products of their environment and that shapes the way they think and act more than their skin color does. Generally one does what one is thought to do. One’s values come from the values of their role models. Regardless of ethnicity, people who grow up with a strong support system, in an environment where education is stressed and children feel safe and nurtured will be better off than people who grow up alone or in single parent homes, in neighborhoods with bad, overcrowded schools, and where danger is ever present 24/7.

While Artest’s comments seem on the surface both ignorant and racist to the extreme, we have to take them with a grain of salt. To say that he doesn’t represent black culture is a no-brainer. The sad thing is he doesn’t even represent himself. The guy is so bi-polar that he constantly changes his mind, contradicts himself, and flip-flops his opinions. He’ll probably make a statement two days from now stating that he misquoted himself and that the media (THE EVIL RACIST WHITE MEDIA) took the quote out of context.

At the end of the day, what are we talking about here? This is a guy who is defending his actions at the brawl, even though he went after the wrong fan. The guy he ended up confronting wasn’t even the one who threw the ice at him. His whole philosophy and rationalization about being “disrespected” comes from an assault against an innocent man. And if Artest really cannot grasp the basic concept that the guy he went after didn’t do anything to deserve it, if he really feels the entire Detroit fan base as a whole disrespected him and was thus deserving of his wrath, then he truly is a sociopath and is probably not someone who should in any way be listened to, let alone be involved with professional sports.

by Aaronstampler on Aug 2, 2008 3:26 AM CDT   0 recs

this was very nicely said

Congrats on your post, very well done. I totally agree with everything you just put. Don’t buy too much into Ron Artest. After all, he’s Ron Artest. As we all know he does and says things he shouldn’t.

"Lightning has Struck, Wearing Silver and Black"- Super Bowl XVIII

by KA1Z3R on Aug 2, 2008 8:45 AM CDT   0 recs

In so far as a culture is a set of commonly-shared ideas necessary for the construction and preservation of a self-governing (not necessarily democratic) society, Ron Artest falls far short of a culture because his actions and comments reflecting his beliefs serve only to destroy a people. At the heart of RA’s comments is pride, historically (once known as a sin) cultures would temper in order to preserve the common good, but today cultures encourage individuals to wildly celebrate to find their identity contra the Other.

So while I wouldn’t call RA representative of black American culture, the question that should be asked is whether RA’s attitude is a reflection of a trend occurring both overall in the USA and particularly in black American culture. It seems to me the theme of “not taking any disrespect” is a prevalent one. Thankfully, running into the stands to punch a fan is not.

by Jason Roberts on Aug 2, 2008 12:38 PM CDT   0 recs

Could not resist this popped up on Indy Cornrows

It’s from a podcast called 1070thefan.

Featuring Chris Broussard, Eddie White and Bob Kravitz (Lenny’s brother..sic).

Eddie (quoting Artest): ... If you go back to the brawl, that’s a culture issue right there. Somebody was disrespecting me, so he’s gotta understand where I’m coming from.

Kravitz: That was a stupid issue, not a Black issue.

Broussard: Yeah, I thought Ben Wallace was disrespecting him too and he didn’t decide to go after Ben. Now, don’t tell Ron I said that, you know.

He is so great to talk about.

by Bushka on Aug 5, 2008 12:04 AM CDT   0 recs

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