Finals Game 2 Recap/Thoughts

by tomasito on Jun 8, 2008 11:32 PM CDT

I thought I'd be agnostic towards this series, but when I broke it down, I found that I really favored the Celtics. I don't really like them, but other than Ray Allen, I don't dislike any of their players or coaches. I dislike Boston (the city and the fans), but no more than I do LA. With LA, I can count on one hand how many of their players I wouldn't punch in the face if given a free shot.

Bear in mind, my stupid DVR cut out and I missed the last four minutes of the game, where LA apparently cut the lead to four at one point. My analysis doesn't take this flurry of points into account at all.

The "Guys with the Whistles"

The referees started off the game by making atrocious calls on both ends. It seemed like one of those basketball video games where fouls are called at random every minute or so. Guys would practically tackle each other, no call, then a touch foul would be called. Boston set two legal screens that were called as fouls. It seems that in the NBA, moving screens are OK, but any screen that causes the defender to fall down or stop in his tracks is considered a foul, no matter how stationary the screener is.

After the first few minutes, the refs start calling the game like the fix is in for Boston. Kobe is getting hacked and manhandled, and not getting any calls. Gasol is playing tough, dunking in Garnett's face and taking it strong to the rim, and not getting ANY calls. Meanwhile, Leon Powe is spinning and juking and jiving, throwing up Steve Martin "wild and crazy guys" shots, and being rewarded with 9 FTs in like 5 minutes of playing time.

KG: Softer than Pau?

Meanwhile, I think Garnett has shot at least 5 jumpers in the first half from the top of the circle. Does he ever shoot in the paint? If ever there were a moment for KG to man up, it would have been after Pau dunked right on his head. What does he do? He takes it at Pau, then scores on some kind of weak dipsy-do reverse under the basket. I tell you, if Garnett were wired upstairs like Leon Powe, he'd be... a Tim Duncan who pounds his chest and throws talcum powder in the air (does he think he's a magician?). Although Tim's gone away from taking it hard to the basket as often as I'd like him to.

Kobe had to sit with three fouls, but the reserves played well, so ultimately it didn't make much of a difference. Still, he got saddled with two very questionable calls early; that has to affect his aggressiveness on D. It seemed like the whole team lost that aggressiveness for fear of fouling; Boston's "swarming" defense is being allowed to clutch and grab, and they are getting a lot of deflections, loose balls, and rebounds. They played most of the game with high intensity, which the Lakers did not come close to matching.

Unlimited Fouls

Jeff Van Gundy had an interesting suggestion: give players more fouls (7 or 8) or even unlimited fouls. Why not? How does it benefit the fans if a star has to sit because of foul trouble? They get free throws, so it's not like you can commit fouls without repercussions, like you can in pickup ball. Maybe they should make it where every foul you commit after the sixth gives the other team three FTs (on shooting fouls or when in the bonus) or one shot and the ball back (on non-shooting fouls).

Second Round Draft Pick Leon Powe

Apparently Leon Powe had a rough childhood, being homeless/in foster care. The announcers are really harping on this fact. Anyways, Leon Powe is exactly the kind of player the Spurs need. He reminds me a lot of young Malik Rose. Athletic, hungry, a bit undersized, but plays like his hair is on fire. The Spurs used to find these guys (Rose, Devin Brown, Derrick Dial, et al) but now it seems like Pop doesn't have the patience to give Darius Washington or James White any slack. If you take a bad shot, you don't just get benched, you get CUT. Even if those players are not as effective as veterans (though it's hard to see how they could be less effective than Horry or Finley), their youth and enthusiasm helps the team chemistry as a whole.

Part of the problem with taking fliers on these foreign guys in the second round is you give yourself no chance of finding a Leon Powe, Carl Landry, or Paul Millsap diamond in the rough. If you figure only 1 out of 5 second rounders pan out, even for teams with competent front offices and scouting departments, then it's all about picking more players. If you pick guys, but you can't bring them over, you're dramatically reducing your odds.

Foreigners

Speaking of, the NBA needs to address the issue of set salaries for first round picks. I'm sure the Spurs would have like to have offered Splitter more money, but they couldn't. Maybe NBA teams should be allowed to match the contract offers for guys in overseas leagues. Mark my words, it won't be long before you see a high draft pick sign in Europe for bigger dollars than they could make in the States (like Danny Ferry). If it were New York or LA or Boston that was running into this issue, and not the Spurs, you can bet the commish would do something about it.

What About Game Three?

I suspect that the officiating will be VERY DIFFERENT back in LA. I absolutely hate buying into conspiracy theories, but this game really makes me think that the NBA is going to ensure that this series goes 6 or 7 games. I foresee an LA blowout in game 3, LA winning a semi-close game 4, then a down to the wire game 5.

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Agreed, but....

I do think the game will be different in LA, for one reason. If Boston goes up 3-0, pretty much everyone outside of Boston/LA markets will just stop watching. A LOT of bandwagon fans of LA will jump ship, and go “OMG!!? BOSTON FTW!!” sigh (At least one thing the Spurs have going for them….thier fans are NOT fairweather bandwagoners, as can be attested from the “Oh jeez not the Spurs!!!” and the Finals ratings from down under…..

That’s just it though, the NBA needs ratings. Badly. They need this “rivalry”. I expect Boston to take 1 in LA and close it in 6, Boston just looks like the superior team to me, even though I haven’t even bothered watching either game. Just highlights, they do.

One thing that bugs me though, is the constant ESPN/CNNSI/Everyone going “LOOK at the “new” rivalry!!” And constantly running non-stop Bird/Johnson promos, mugs, cups, T-shirts, etc. You’d think as a casual observer that Brid and Johnson were playing! It’s an extreme disservice to the 2 very good teams in the Finals now. The only players you hear about are Bird, Johnson, Kobe, and Pierce (and sometimes KG, and in that order). That just sucks. At least with Pistons/Spurs, it’d be Manu, Tim, Tony, Chauncey, Rip, Flip, Pop, ......Horry…., Tayshaun, etc. etc…..

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.

by Nixiack on Jun 9, 2008 12:38 AM CDT reply actions

I'm shocked at how much I'm enjoying this series

In two games, I have become a big fan of the Boston Celtics. Agree with you tomasito that Ray Allen is the only guy I dislike on their team, and I’m finding that I’m loving Paul Pierce, whom I never really watched before, and even more little Rajon and the What’s Not to Love Powe! How about the timing of that puff piece on Powe – they run it in the middle of the game of his life!

And all I can think about is These Guys, Pop, These Guys! 2nd rounders, late 1st rounders, Americans! So I totally agree with your take on that.

How can you not love the Celtics when they are dismantling the Kobe and Phil show brick by brick! Could there be a more irritating person in the NBA to watch than Kobe? Yes, his basketball is obviously out of this world, but having to watch his pissy-ass facial expressions and egomaniacal reactions to everything – how can anyone but a bona fide Laker fan not hate this guy?

My Sour Grapes/Classless award for the night goes to Mr. Jackson, who rudely and intentionally mispronounced Powe’s name just so he could make the point about how some NOBODY was getting more calls than the Royalty that are the Lakers. Ridiculous! he drips disdainfully. No Phil, you are ridiculous, you and your stupid overrated team.

Would love to see Celtics keep up the pressure, win Game 3. They probably won’t though, but they’ll get one of them. Celtics in 6. And the postgame on that one I’ll be sure to be tuned in on, maybe we’ll get to see Kobe and Derek cry again.

by fliprose on Jun 9, 2008 12:01 PM CDT reply actions

Damn, the Spurs would have played better D on the Celts

But I still think, like everybody else, the flow of the series will reverse in L.A.

by Amazing_Happens on Jun 9, 2008 1:22 PM CDT reply actions

LA will win Game 3

Simply because of several things : 1) The ratings thing I expressed above. 2) LA will come out desperate. NO team has ever come back down 0-3 in basketball, esp. in the Finals. They will be the agressor and not let up on the gas pedal. 3) Home Court. LA will get the ticky-tack fouls that the Celtics were getting in Boston.

That said : If Kobe comes out of the locker room in Game 3 at the start and tries to make it “the Kobe Show” and you see the stat line where the Lakers team as a whole has less shot attempts than Kobe himself…well then Boston might just win Game 3.

by Nixiack on Jun 9, 2008 2:01 PM CDT reply actions

A little bit skeptical about the ratings factor

Because then why would San Antonio meet NJ in the finals, and then Detroit?

by Amazing_Happens on Jun 9, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions

Heh, you could say that SA vs. NJ and Detroit is why they need these ratings so bad. If you would have had LA, or Boston, or Phoenix, or New York, or whatever in the finals instead of SA/NJ, SA/Det…. well….

by Nixiack on Jun 9, 2008 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions

If you think about it...

With the 3 major sports…NFL, NBA, and MLB…. with the NFL, the league can survive a bunch of different teams getting into the Super Bowl all the time, because the Super Bowl is the ultimate corporate event, and they make money regardless of teams. The MLB has thier major markets that almost always make it to the big top, and if someone else does (say like Detroit, St. Louis, Angels o’ Anahiem) that actually generates MORE interest because it’s NOT the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, et. al. They still make thier “big money” no matter what due to the size of the typical big market teams’ fan base.

With the NBA, once your big market teams (New York, Boston, LA, used to be Chicago) and your upstart “chic pick” (Phoenix, Dallas, Golden State) are out of the playoffs attendance/the ability of the casual fan to care plummets. All conspiracy crap aside-and no I don’t get into conspiracy, I’ve stated that before-the NBA has to be breating a HUGE sigh of relief that the Gasol/Garnett-Allen deals went through. As it pains me to say it, I don’t think the League can survive a lot more SA/Det Finals. Just think about the past few years-Phoenix is out by the 2nd round guaranteed-except for ‘06—LA doesn’t even make the playoffs or is ousted in the 1st round. Boston is a joke, and don’t get started on NY. There is no coincidence that the past few years have been the absolute worst for the NBA popularity and ratings wise.

by Nixiack on Jun 9, 2008 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Sure, they could survive another SA/DET finals. The NBA is a global corporation making money off tickets, merchandising, etc. from small towns in America to small towns in China. I don’t see this as a reflection on the Spurs. Sure, the Spurs being from a small market could have some effect but I really think the quality of the product that the NBA has been putting out has been turned people off.

If NY’s owner had his head out of his ass then maybe people here in NYC would care. Fact is, its not that they hate the Spurs and won’t watch, its just that they’re on to other sports and parts of their lives because caring about basketball is not part of your life when the GM/Coach of your hometown team can’t figure out how to win a basketball game. LA has been steeped in rebuilding, hampered by the salary cap, and mired in controversy of Kobe’s desire to get out of town. I laughed when I saw the Colorado Casanova’s puff piece at halftime of Game 3. What a nice guy, that Kobe. Suddenly people in LA care. Boston, on the other hand, was the most surprising to me. When I attended a Spurs/Celts game a couple of years ago and wore my Manu jersey, all sorts of fans talked to me and said they hoped the Celts would turn out like the Spurs. The game was sold out.

I won’t pretend to have the stats but if the quality of the product in the big market teams sucks then no one is going to care regardless of who is in the Finals.

Allez Spurs!

by JustinBK on Jun 11, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions

Ha, LA cares

I’ve seen a lot of articles lately (including reading one in Sports Illustrated—the one with Kobe and Pierce on the cover) about how “the LA adoration with Kobe is without limits” yet you leave LA, and you are hard pressed to find someone who isn’t a bandwagon fan who truely likes Kobe.

I will give you your point on who cares who is in the Finals when the big markets suck, but that’s just it….it’s a trickle-down effect. With SA/Det in the Finals constantly, or someone NOT named LA/Boston/NY/(insert flashy team here) , then TV ratings will drop like a rock-as they have been. Yes, I will agree that that quality of the product is teetering on horrendous, mainly due to all the ref debacles and the NBA’s inability (read : not caring) to stop it. But with no one watching the Finals, the NBA can’t make the TV networks pony up the dough to have them run the NBA games, which means FAR less revenue-the NBA is 2nd to the NFL in cash-per-TV-contract worth…. which will hit the salary cap, which will cause more problems getting people overseas here, and cause all kinds of labor disputes, etc.

That’s why I sadly say (and stick with) the fact that the league just cannot take more SA/Det type of Finals, where no one tunes in or cares. I just use SA/Det because that’s the most recent one….

by Nixiack on Jun 11, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Good points.

Allez Spurs!

by JustinBK on Jun 11, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions

I also agree on Euro vs. American comments

But to be fair to Pop/RC, you get Ginobili, Parker, (they did draft Barbosa), Scola, etc. All 4 of those were giant hits in the NBA so far. So they are doing it the right way…. You get : Free training, rights, etc etc doing it the “Euro way” instead of having to invest a LOT of time, cash, etc. on developing over here constantly. I would consider it a MUST that the NBA definitely look into this, and change the salary structure for Euro rookies, so that teams can get them over here. Otherwise you will start to see that well dry up, and teams will draft solely on US talent (which is about 80-85% over-rated to the extreme) and the NBA will regress, which is not good for the sport right now.

And I think you’re right. If this was happening to LA, Boston, Cleveland or New York the NBA would be like Governor William J. Lepetomane : “Holy underwear! Kobe/Bron-Bron not getting help! People are thinking the NBA is inferior! We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Harrumph! Harrumph! Harrumph!”

by Nixiack on Jun 9, 2008 2:11 PM CDT reply actions

Yeah…. the one thing I’ve been wanting to say to every LA fan… “Winning ain’t quite so easy when the ref’s aren’t letting you get away with that over-aggressive-fouling-hacking-trapping-crap Phil Jackson calls ‘Defense’.”

Yeah… since the Spurs are out, I’ve been amusing myself by predicting/viewing everything from a conspiracy-theory viewpoint… and it’s working out great. I’m something like 20-0 for my pre/in-game predictions while watching with my friends. I was particularly proud that Kobe got a technical within about 30 seconds of me saying he was about to start getting pissed at the refs. I also called the comeback – particularly that the refs were about to start letting LA get away with murder on D. A 3-barrage just isn’t something that you can call, tho.

I’m still letting it marinate in my mind, but I’m predicting an LA parade to the foul line for game 3. The league wants this sucker to go seven games.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on Jun 9, 2008 10:11 PM CDT reply actions

Write down your predictions

It will help you see how wrong (or right) you are in your predictions.

Keeping track in your head tends to make the wrong prognostications disappear.

If you are still 20-0, please tell me your predictions, so I can make some halftime bets.

by Amazing_Happens on Jun 10, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions

Hey A_H

Good to hear from you again, though I wish it were under different circumstances. I tell you what, nobody comes back from huge deficits like Kobe. I remember you guys’ coming back from like 30 in the fourth quarter against Dallas a couple of years ago. Looks like you needed just one more minute the other night.

BTW, I saw this on Curt Schilling’s blog:
http://38pitches.com/2008/06/09/manny-jd-papi-lester-and-the-nba-finals/#more-178
Basically, he doesn’t think Kobe gets along so well with his teammates.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Jun 10, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions

What's up Amazing? :)

Hey there! I know this is a Game 2 recap, but I just caught Game 3 on ESPN recap’ed and it looked like you guys won the game everyone thought you would (Game 3.) After looking at the box score and watching the video replay, I have some questions if you don’t mind answering :)

1) Does it bother you that you won by 6, but it took a near 40 pt. night from Kobe (with 18!! trips to the foul line….make up for Game 2?) and a career night by Vujacic. A lot of times it was said the Celtics were up by 6, 10, 6 again…the Lakers were constantly fighting deficits, and never seemed in command like in a few games vs. our beloved Spurs…. with this game in the books, I WILL stand by my prediction of Celtics in 6…I just think they will def. steal one in LA.

2) What are you guys going to do about Odom? Honestly, if he was on the Spurs, the collective “RRRRIIIIPPP” you’d hear is us ripping our hair out constantly. Against the Jazz, he had 2 games of “good” games--like 15+ 10+ rebounds. All the other times (like tonight) he goes for about 5 pts, 3 rebounds. Is he worth all that cash? Honestly….I’d trade him next year and get a REAL person, like a great PG to replace Fisher, or a great SF or something to offset Kobe-because Gasol dissapears as well against real competition….

3) Speaking of Gasol/Odom….why does it seem that if you have 1 good post defender (Duncan, Garnett, Yao, Dwight Howard-when he wants to-, Boozer (last year’s version)...you can take out BOTH Gasol and Odom? Odom seems to feed off Gasol, and when Gasol sucks, so does Odom. Why is LA the only team that seems to have this problem? Take our Spurs for example…Ginobili’s off night (when not injured) is like 15-18 pts, 5 assists, 3 rebs….Parkers is like a “quiet” 15-20 pts., 4 assists….Duncan is like 18 pts., 15 rebs, 2 assists. Then LA’s, Kobe’s is like 25-30 pts, 3 assists, Gasol’s goes from about 20/15 to 8/12 (!!!!) and Odom goes from like 18-7 to 4/2 ???

For all of LA’s vaunted strength, it seems that if Kobe has 1 off-night, the Lakers are doomed. If say, one of the Spurs’ have an off-night, the Spurs can still win and it won’t take a herculean effort by 1 player. Now if the Spurs get a reliable bench…look out! :D

by Nixiack on Jun 11, 2008 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions

A. 20-0 is obviously an exaggeration.
B. I’m making some pretty safe comments while watching with my friends, ie. “Fisher’s gonna be flopping like a halibut on a poop deck”. Also safe is “The halftime show is going to suck”, and “The commentators are going to be a whole new level of horrid”.

So, if you’re looking for safe best, then bet on the series going 7. My only objection to that would be that everyone, even the non-conspiracy mongers, think that the NBA is going to force this one to 7. So I’m actually thinking it’s going to be cut short to 6 unless the designated sacrificial lamb pulls a perfect game out of their ass during to force game 7.

In all honesty tho, I am kinda struck by just how scripted this series seems so far. Kobe and his boys DID make quite a few trips to the charity stripe, and they did it quite often during the 4th quarter. I’m speaking from memory right now, but if anyone has a link to a play-by-play, I’ll take a look at it.

But the whole Donahey(sp?) thing makes conspiracy-minded prediction difficult right now – they might be too spooked to call in a fix.

Or, on another level, they may take the Eric Cartminez method, and, because of the added scrutiny, call in the fix harder than ever.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on Jun 11, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Game 3? Or Game 4...who knows. But it's only going 6.

I don’t know if it will be a parade to the foul line for the Lakers. We kept thinking that against the Spurs and it never materialized. What I think though is that LA will win Game 3, and either 4 or 5—it all depends on when Boston wants to show that physical intensity that they supposedly showed in Games 1 and 2…. LA can’t match it at all, and they will lose at least 1 in LA. Boston in 6.

One thing I’ve noticed from Boston over the course of the playoffs and LA in the course of the playoffs….when Boston gets down in points or something, thier “Big 3” try all they can to get back. They don’t get down. As far as LA goes, thier “Big 3” turns into “Big 1.” Kobe might be good enough to win games on his own down the stretch, but 3 will always be better in a 7 game series than 1. Period. (SA had 2, Manu was NOT Manu. I don’t care, he was hurt.) When the pressure is on Boston has risen to the occasion every time. When the pressure is on Kobe rises, Gasol and Odom go “oh, well we’ll just camp out back here, watch Kobe work….call us sometime.” Gasol has wilted against equal to superior competition, and Odom is the most overpaid 3rd string role player/starter I’ve seen probably period. He’s only good when A) Kobe is roaming around feeding assists, B) Gasol is scoring and dishing, C) Fisher is hitting 3’s. THEN Odom actually looks good.

If I were LA, with the cap HELL you are about to have, and your savior in Bynum coming next year, I’d trade Odom as fast as I could.

by Nixiack on Jun 10, 2008 12:01 AM CDT reply actions

I don’t know if it will be a parade to the foul line for the Lakers. We kept thinking that against the Spurs and it never materialized.

The Lakers DID get more free-throws last night than game1 or game2, and they got 10 in the fourth quarter of a close game. That’s always critical.

Another important point about the Spurs/Lakers FT disparity – the Spur’s defense emphasizes avoiding fouls, especially shooting fouls. I watched every WCF game with a couple of Lakers fans (They’re not hard to find anywhere), and not once did any of us observe an instance where Kobe should have drawn a foul but didn’t. He didn’t shoot many free throws simply because he didn’t get fouled much. Bruce tried to make him favor taking jump shots, and he succeeded – Kobe drove much less than usual during the entire series.

What pissed me off was that the Spurs and Lakers were getting called for roughly the same number of fouls, but the Lakers were clearly initiating more contact on the defensive end – particularly during their second half “comebacks”.

One thing about Phil Jackson vs. Gregg Popovich – they both have very definite and distinct defensive styles which they impose on their teams:
- Popovich’s defense involves forcing the ball baseline, not fouling jump shooters, and playing strong positional defense with emphasis on 3-point and in-the-paint defense. When done well, opponents are left with few options for high-percentage shots. When it’s bad, opponents are spending all day taking open mid-range shots.
- Jackson’s defense is less structured, and far more aggressive – he double teams, traps, and teaches his players to reach and swipe from the weak side, and emphasizes off-the-ball defense and tipping the ball off passes – if done well, this gums up an opponent’s offense by preventing any clean ball movement and produces turnovers at a steady clip. When it’s bad, the opponent is getting a whole lotta open shots in the paint, and taking a whole lotta free throws.

Comparing the two styles, it’s not hard to see that Jackson’s defense would be far more foul-prone than Popovich’s. This is particularly true when the Lakers are in a deficit, and Jackson turns up the defensive aggressiveness. But they are RARELY ever called for it. In a way, this is simply a good observation by Jackson – the refs allow much more contact (non-shooting contact, especially) during the playoffs, and he takes advantage of it. But when the refs don’t allow an opposing team (say… the SPURS) to play with the same defensive aggressiveness, it gives the Lakers at a prohibitive advantage.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on Jun 11, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions

The NCAA Tourney features a lot of this type of stuff, meaning teams make huge comebacks late in a game with a full-court press. The press causes turnovers that poor ballhandlers/passers cannot handle. Additionally, the refs have generally let the “pressers” get away with a lot of reaching/fouling while forcing the turnovers

by Gino20 on Jun 11, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions