Let’s bring on the OffSeason.
Hey, alright. I’m back. I’ve been quiet long enough. Yeah, sure, I’ve posted some comments here and there but I’ve been holding back on really delving into anything. I needed to recover from the Spurs loss to the sorry ass Lakers. I had a vacation for a few days and work has been full steam. Enough about me though, you guys don’t give a shit about that. Let’s talk Spurs.
I love the offseason. Stampler and I dorked out back in Feb. or Mar. and talked offseason moves for something like two hours in chat. That’s when I first heard the Azubuike fetish that Stampler has. I’ve been reading the site and abstaining from commenting on what the Spurs will do. Lots of speculation about who we should draft, who we should sign as a free agent, who we should bring back, and who we shouldn’t. It seems to me, that these are all inter-related and we ought to tackle them as one big problem. Why? Because that’s what addicts do.
First, let’s get some facts out of the way.
The draft is one week from today (or tomorrow or maybe sooner depending on when I post and when you read this). The Spurs own picks 26, 45, and 57. For the full draft order, look here: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2008/
The Spurs have 10 guys under contract for next season.
Bowen, Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Oberto, Bonner, Barry, Vaughn (assuming he exercises his option), Mahinmi, and Udoka.
For the full contract status for each, look here: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-player-salaries/team/Spurs/
NOTE: They don’t have Brent Barry on that list. It hasn’t been updated since they resigned him. But, I believe he is signed for the veteran minimum of about 1.2 mill for next year.
Those 10 contracts have us on the books for $55.5 mill next year.
(I love the guys at draftexpress.com. They know their shit.)
We have 5 roster spots open. We have to sign 3 guys by rule. A team has to have 13 guys under contract.
The free agent season officially starts when they announce the salary cap. I think that is around July 9th. (I looked it up. It’s July 9th, but they delayed it a couple years back because the cap numbers weren’t ready.)
The Spurs can’t trade their 2010 pick. I’m not sure they can trade their 2008 pick. You see, there is this rule that you can’t trade a draft pick in consecutive years. So keep that in mind. I do think the Spurs can make a pick this year then trade the rights to the pick afterward. This is the part I’m not sure about. What I am sure about is that the Spurs cannot package their 2008 and 2010 and send it off somewhere. Why? Because they sent their 2009 pick to Seattle along with a Bag of Bones and Edward Skillethands for Kurt Thomas.
Tiago is not coming over this year.
The Spurs are in it to win this year. They won't make a drastic change for the future of the team.
Second, some basic assumptions.
The Spurs will not go over the salary cap in a way that makes them pay a luxury tax. We can argue and bullshit until we are blue in the face about whether or not they should, can afford to, or whatever. But facts are facts. They ain’t gonna do it. So, if you want to talk your Michael Redd trade then you have to give up about equal value in salary. Not. Gonna. Happen. I’d shoot myself in the fucking dick if they gave up Tony or Many to get him. And if they traded Tim to get him I would shoot SiMA in the dick. With his own gun too.
I’m not familiar enough with the salary cap rules to say how much we can sign guys for using the Mid Level Exception (MLE) and how that will affect us. But, we do have some money floating around out there we can spend. I’m going to say that it is in the 6-8 million range.
I don’t think there is much usefulness in things like, "wouldn’t be cool if the Spurs traded Oberto for Elton Brand". Or "wouldn’t it be cool if Elton Brand opted out of his contract and signed with the Spurs for $4mil/year." Sure, it could happen. I guess.
I also don’t put much stock in the Spurs trading for Mike Miller, Michael Redd, Andres Nocioni, or anybody making $8 mil/year or more. I just don’t think it is going to happen.
Alright, let’s get to business with some of my opinions.
One, I think the Spurs front office is exceptional. Scola or no Scola, they make this shit work. Their strategy, and I think it will be the same this year, is to ride the big three and surround them with pieces that fill in with various skills. The Spurs, in my opinion, fill the roster based on two things. Experience and a balance of skills. One of the things I find interesting about the team is that the guys playing roles almost all provide something different, and all have something they do fairly well that other guys don’t provide. Pop likes to be able to match up with any team. Some teams are big and play slow. Some teams are small and play fast. Some teams have wings that can score. Some don’t. Etc. So he likes to have a little bit of everything at his disposal.
Vaughn: best ball handler off the bench. Only guy who can come close to playing pressure defense on a point guard.
Udoka: Very good against physical small forwards who like to work in the post
Horry: A big man who spreads the floor on offense and can bang with the other teams posts. (that’s theoretical and a year plus out of date, but I think it is the role he was supposed to play)
Barry: Hit threes and play up-tempo
Bonner: A poor man’s Horry.
Oberto: Bang bigs and pass
Finley: Make 3’s. Make 2’s. Try to play defense. (again, theoretical, but I still love me some FinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnDogggggggggggggg!!!!)
Thomas: Plays bruising post defense, decent mid-range shooter, a rich man’s Oberto
Bowen: we all know what he does
Before I get into what I think we need, I want to group the guys we have under contract:
Bigs – Duncan, Oberto, Bonner, Mahinmi
Wings – Ginobili, Bowen, Barry, Udoka
Points – Parker, Vaughn
So, with Finley, Horry, and Thomas not under contract, and a total of 5 open roster spots, here’s what I think are the skill sets we need to fill to have a complete team. In order of my importance:
- A big who can bang.
- A big who can spread the floor and play a modicum of athletic defense.
- A fourth player who can create off the dribble.
- A player who can bury the 3-ball and play just a little defense.
- A player who we can run post offense through.
- A wing to play shutdown defense.
- A backup point guard.
(Let me warn you that I haven’t done exhaustive research of who is available as free agents. I also watch very, very little non-Spurs basketball so I don’t know the skill sets of players on other teams.) I’m only suggesting free agents. I think it is unlikely, but possible, we fill some of these in the draft.
To sum up, we need a big who can bang first and foremost. The other West teams gotter bigger last year. There is ZERO chance the Spurs go into next season with Bonner as our third best big man AND hoping that Mahinmi can produce. Beast or not in the D-League, Ian has a ways to go. Do I want to see him playing for the Spurs? Yes. Are the Spurs going to bet a championship on Ian being ready? No. Bonner, hah! If Matt is the first big off the bench all year we are in deep shit.
Guys who might work: Kurt Thomas, Diop, Kwame Brown.
A big who can spread the floor and being somewhat athletic on defense. These are hard to find. Robert Horry’s don’t grow on trees. They just die on them.
Guys who might work: No idea. But Najera is available. He’s just not athletic.
A player who can create. I don’t care if this is a wing or a point guard. But the Spurs didn’t have anybody on their roster this year who could take his man off the dribble (with or without a screen). This hurt us quite a bit and forced Manu and Tony into more minutes. If we get this player as a wing, then The JV can be our backup point guard along with Manu and Brent and we will pray that Tony doesn’t get hurt. We pray for that anyway, so no biggy. (And no, Brent Barry is not an answer at backup point guard. Yeah, he can do it spot duty in certain matchups, but that is all.)
Guys who might work: Stampler’s buddy Azubuike. JR Smith.
A player who can bury the 3-ball and play a little defense.
Guys who might work: FinDog, Azubuike,
A player who we can run post offense through. I think it has been a shortcoming of the Spurs that nobody else we have had for a while could score in the post. Just Tim. Mahinimi might provide this. I don’t want this guy to be awesome, but I would like him to be able to score on the shitty defenders in the league.
Guys who might work: No idea.
A wing to play shutdown defense. Bruce is still very solid and Ime has some great value. But we could use somebody to groom behind Bruce.
Guys who might work: Childress
A backup point guard. Somebody better than Jacque, I know hard to believe, that can carry the team for short periods or a few games. Like Speedy used to.
Guys who might work: No idea.
So there you have it. That’s what I think we need. I think the Spurs start by trying to sign Kurt Thomas to a 3-4 million contract for 2 years. He’s smart, he’s tough, and he won’t hurt you. Three things Pop loves. After that, it’s a crap shoot.
As for the draft. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Spurs go heavy international again. I could see them trying to trade up. I could seeing them trading the rights and moving out of the first round. In my best “hey, you pulled that out of your ass” guess, I’m going to say the Spurs trade picks with the Suns. Whoever they take can expect to see some serious time in Austin playing for the Toros. Especially if it is a point guard.
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Nicely Done
I think draftexpress or maybe nbadraft.net had the Spurs taking Roy Hibbert with the 26th, just missing out on CDR and passing on Chalmers. So that would help with the low post scoring, not so much on defense, however.
I just dont think they can roll out the same 8-9 man rotation and expect different results, they just cant keep up anymore, and the West is loaded as always, bynum will be back, Oden will be joining a fearsome portland team….so the Spurs have got to do something to address the points you laid out.
My dream sequence: Trade up to the end of the lottery/and or the 15-17 range to get Donte Greene, hes a long term project, but hes athletic/long/quick enough to help to some degree right away.
More likely would be getting someone like courtney lee in the first, and maybe a bruiser of sorts with the second pick, then someone from some obscur eastern european nation with the last pick.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jun 18, 2008 11:55 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Great post
But I just shot myself in the dick reading how delusional you are. Anytime the words “Vaughn” or “Finley” were in the same sentence as “guys who might work,” I reloaded.
We need help. Everywhere. If I was an elderly couple in the Midwest and you were a traveling salesman, I would have just bought the 2008-09 San Antonio SPURS. But I’m not Mr. and Mrs. Robert Horry, I’m not a believer that we’re going to win without shedding dead weight, and I’m far more concerned than you seem to be.
I don’t think we need massive changes either (Redd, etc.), but definately think we need to be shedding some role players. In my ideal world RoHo, Fiiiinnnnnnndddddoooooogggg (don’t worry, we’ll find another player whose name lends itself to cool chants) and Jacque need to go. At all costs. Even if we pay Vaughn to leave. We could package him in a deal for a big with the pick, but only if we’re aggressively courting free agents to counter the draft loss. I’m fine with Bones and Bruce, but in gradually lesser roles. We need youth and athleticism, and I’m hoping the draft provides. I’m with Michael on Azuwhatever, and I like Childress for our system too. If we virtually stand pat, we’re not going to get through the 2nd round this year.
Why are we not talking about Okafur? CMoney and I have had many discussions about this, and I just don’t see how picking up Azuwhatever and Okafur and a solid developed draft pick wouldn’t be the wisest (and dreamiest) way to go. Plus it would give us complete control over the category, “Teams With Unpronouncable Names.”
All that said, it’s great to see you back. I’ve had a mojo candle lit all this time in the hope that you wouldn’t tarry, and now I can extinguish it.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 18, 2008 11:57 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of delusional
Okafor - unpronouncable and unspellable apparently - is a restricted free agent. That means in order to get him you have to over pay for him. If the Spurs agreed to a 5-6 mil/year contract the Bobcats would match it. I don’t think the Spurs could even offer him the max which is probably what he is looking for. This is the pipe dream kind of stuff I won’t discuss. So reload if you must. You might want to use your scope this time.
Yes, the Spurs were old this year. But they did make it to the conference finals and I think would have had a great shot at winning if Manu was healthy. Notice I said, if Manu was healthy. Not if Horry and Finley were younger.
The JV is what he is. A solid third point guard who the Spurs get on the cheap. He plays for the veteran minimum which gets subsidized by the league. The Spurs can’t do any better with that roster spot. Do they want - and we need - a better backup point? Hell, yeah. But they won’t get rid of The JV.
But, absolutely we need help. All the guys will be a year older and that much more prone to injury.
Point Guards. I got tired last night and ran out of steam. Remember how we got Speedy Claxton? We traded our first round pick for him the year he was coming off of an injury.
Some ideas: Chris Duhon and Juan Carlos Navarro both come to mind as unrestricted free agents the Spurs could pursue. Navarro seems like he would be the better fit to me.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 19, 2008 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Okay, in all reality, we both know you’re right. There’s no way JV leaves us alone and disappears. He’s a bargain. And I don’t think your Dog is going anywhere either (although I secretly also really like him). And on one side of the fence, we DID get to the Finals this year with healthy players.
But.
Age, age, age. I’ve always laughed at the “we’re too old” argument, until this off-season. Because the fact is, we ARE now too old and unathletic. We have lots and lots of dead weight that one day will have to be shed. When said dead weight doesn’t look to be voluntarily retiring anytime soon, it’s time to retool. Not to mention the fact that we need to count on players that if injured, won’t take a maximum amount of time to recoup (as youth provides). I love all the ideas (Duhon I’m on board with too), but my concern is that the braintrust doesn’t have the same perception of our situation. I admire the loyalty and persistance, but believing in players who are clearly beyond useful is just stupid. The point is, we have many many needs. Balancing these within the cap will be a challenge, and I also have faith in our white-collars. I hope to see a committment to improving our deficiency in the age and athletic category, and I hope to see a committment to achieving greater balance.
And yeah, Ohkafer is a pipe dream. A possible pipe dream, but not probable. That said, with a big who had a potential for offense and could alter defenses thrown at us, we’d be gravy. Add a capable new Findog to the mix (CDR, Azu, Childress) and a backup guard who won’t cost us games when Tony hits the bench, and I like where we stand.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 19, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
great breakdown
I do want to address the point guard issue. I think Brent Barry can serve as back up point guard, especially when playing alongside Manu. He’s played point before and if paired with a two guard well able to create, I think he’s fine … as a backup. Plus we still have JV if we have to. Bottom line is, if we trade for someone better as backup point guard it’s a waste since any back up we get will probably spend time alongside the greatest of the great. Might as well take advantage of Bones passing skills and his ability to complement other players who are good at creating.
Can I get an amen?
Bones did a very good job in the playoffs running point for short stretches. The ball movement with him on the floor is almost always solid. Pop is going to play 3 PGs during the season to keep Tony’s minutes down, but at playoff time, Barry can be the man in 10 minutes per game and double at the wing spot also. So, I’m with ATS, keep the JV for the 82-game grind, play a 2-headed backup at point (Bones/Vaughn) and concentrate on other positions on the floor – like getting a real wing that can dribble.
It’s about the playoffs and 9-10 guys that will play heavy minutes once we get there. The other 5-6 guys are fodder for the regular season. JV = king of all fodder (in a good way).
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." – Aldous Huxley
Please do not put Spurs and Kwame Brown in the same post :/
Please please please :p You are correct in the case though, that we are having pipe-dreams regarding people in the 8 mil + range. That would require trading someone(s) with equal cap space, and no one would take a combo of Bonner/Vaughn etc. for someone of Redd’s or Brand’s, or even Okafor’s caliber.
From what I’ve heard, they are resigning Finley, but letting Horry go. So at least 1 of 2 that we asked for has happened, to this extent. Bowen’s key to longevity is probably simple…he never has had to work on offense, just defense. Having to work on offense all the time really tires you out more, since you have to go non-stop until you get to the basket or create…just look at Kobe in the Finals. By Game 5/6, he was really tired going into the 2nd half, and it really showed. Udoka might be 31 this year, but he’s 7 years younger than Bowen, and if they work him in the same way, he can last just as long and be just as great :)
Yes I know that the Lakers get Bynum back next year, and that might help them in banging down low, but they are S-O-F-T inside period, and no one knows how truely bad that knee injury was to him, it kept him out 3/4ths of the year. An injury like that can really screw up a player…not to mention that I do feel kinda sorry for the kid, I mean think about it—he’s thier “savior”, they guy that they will win a title with, supposedly. Yikes.
Anyways, my point is this, and I said it in another post….the Spurs had injury upon injury…Duncan was out, Parker, Ginobili, sometimes 2 of the 3 would miss significant games-remember Dallas and Utah when Ginobili went Ape-Snot? Finley was hurt, Barry was lost for 3/4th’s of the year, Bowen was out a few games…I think the only people that played the whole year from start to finish were Udoka and Oberto. AND YET, the Spurs were ONE game out of the top seed in the most competitive Western Conference in history, and went all the way to the WCF before the injuries became too much. That is how talented this team really is….and how good it is already. Seriously-remember back to last year with NO - Paul, West, and Peja all missed some games…it cost them 20 games and a shot at the post season. Dallas had some injuries this year (Dirk, etc.) and they went from having a shot at the first seed to barely making the playoffs. LA—Bynum went down….they had EVERYONE ELSE in that team, fully healthy, and yet thier season was lost, and they were going to barely make the playoffs.
All the Spurs need is some minor tooling, a bit younger options in places so that when the inevitable injury/quick turnaround happens they have some fresher legs, and the 09’ title is thiers to lose, not Bostons. And remember, we are 3-0 in odd years after winning a title!!
:D
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.
Mid-Level exception explained, and other things :
Mid-level exception
A team is allowed to sign one player to a contract equal to the average NBA salary, even if the team is over the salary cap already, or if the signing would put them over the cap. This is known as the Mid-level exception. The Mid-Level Exception for the 2007-08 NBA season is $5.36 million. Only teams that are over the Salary Cap can use the mid-level exception to sign free agents.
An example would be the Detroit Pistons’ acquisition of forward Antonio McDyess during the 2004 off-season.
—SO—the Spurs would have to fill thier cap space already (if they have about 55 mil, the cap this last year was 59, it is expected to be around 62-63 mil for 08-09). Then they can use the full MLE.
Also : Luxury Tax—
According to the NBA, using the 05-06 Knicks as an example : While most NBA teams hold contracts valued in excess of the salary cap, few teams have payrolls at luxury tax levels. The tax threshold in 2005-06 was $61.7 million dollars. In 2005-06, the New York Knicks’ payroll was $124 million, putting them $74.5 million above the salary cap, and $62.3 million above the tax line, which Knicks owner James Dolan paid to the league.
The salary cap in 05-06 was 49.5 mil, which means that there is a “cushion” of about 12 million dollars that the team can go over before engaging the luxury tax. I put this in simply because when considering contracts, we know the Spurs won’t go above that thresh-hold, but it is good to know kinda what it is. So if the salary cap for 08-09 will be around 60 mil, we figure that the luxury tax area will be around 72 mil. With the Spurs at 55 mil, that leaves roughly 17 million total to play with.
I’m not a math genius, nor do I know really why I am putting this all out there with the exception that I hope this clears up some confusion regarding how the Spurs can use the MLE, and where they absolutely won’t go as well as give you guys some more “food for thought” when thinking about who the Spurs should get. It’s 1:30 AM and I’m actually tired, so right now I don’t know who they should go after….if they stayed healthy this year, the title would be thiers….end of story. So I don’t know (again) who can really fix it or what….I just have faith in RC/Pop to do it, and celebrate #5 next year :)
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.
Like you said
I don’t really follow the other NBA teams either. All I see of other teams players are those we happen to be playing against. That being said, GREAT POST. I agree with pretty much everything you said. The only thing that didn’t jive with me was Fin Dog still being a viable option. I’ve always liked him, even when my buddies didn’t, so everytime he had a good night I’d let them know it. Although not as far gone as Horry, he’ll be catching up with Big Gut sooner rather than later. Too bad. I do think with some draft day luck we could land an international gem that could provide nearly as much (3pt shooting/some D) with alot more upside. And your absolutely right, RC and Pop are in it to win NOW. The window for this particular group is starting to close and any drastic changes WON’T be happening. I think yours and SiMAS dicks will both be bullet free
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
Findawg plays some defense? Ahem. Is he really expected to rejoin the Spurs? Where are we getting this from? Is the source that other post on this blog? Knowing Pop, it wouldn’t surprise me, but it also wouldn’t surprise me if he realized that he now has the ability to atone for the Jaren Jackson re-signing. Finley is a free agent. The Spurs organization has no obligation to him…let him walk!
I disagree with the prioritization of needs for the team. I also think that some of those needs can be met by the same player. I think the highest priority should be an athletic wing who plays defense. If we can somehow pick up J-Chill with the MLE (please just let him leave Atlanta, you don’t need him since you have 4 other guys on the team just like him), then our off-season will have been an utter success. He could meet needs 3, 4, and 6 on his own, and if we go with a small lineup, could even handle need 2 (a need that I find somewhat questionable anyway).
As for a post banger, with Splitter’s no-show, that job falls neatly to KT. I could see some team like Dallas trying to drive up his price, but at his age he is probably only worth a couple of million per year. He really likes the Spurs organization, and is not poor at this point in his career. He might even sign on for the veteran’s minimum for a shot at a championship with the Spurs.
We do indeed need a backup PG. My top choice who I think might be possible is Carlos Arroyo. We might just be under the cap by a few million to allow the Spurs to sign him as a free agent. Then again, I might be underrating his salary potential.
For the draft, I really hope the Spurs manage to get Chris Douglas-Roberts in round one. I am not really sold on Hibbert. He could easily be a stiff at the next level. Do you covet David Harrison? If so, Hibbert is your man. In round 2 I hope the Spurs take J.R. Giddens, and some unknown foreign player who will probably never suit up in silver and black.
Ideal roster next season:
1: Tony, Arroyo, Vaughn
2: Manu, Bones, Giddens
3: Bowen, Childress, Udoka
4: Duncan, Mahinmi
5: KT, Oberto, Bonner
Wolf, do you think CDR will slide all the way to 26. I’ve read that scouts are concerned with his physical strength and some were questioning what his durability would be in the NBA. I would love to see him with the Spurs, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Courtney Lee from Western Kentucky as well, that guy can go.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
Who knows where CDR will fall? DraftExpress now has him at 25 and Courtney up to 22. If a stud like Danny Granger can fall to #17, then certainly someone like CDR could end up at #26.
Right now I am wondering if the Spurs are going to draft Omer Asik of Turkey. He’s raw, but he is a 7 footer with tons of potential. It could be the classic, stash-a-player-overseas situation. Of course if he gets too good, it could turn out to be just like Splitter. With a late first round pick he won’t be guaranteed much money. He is expected to go as the 1st pick in the second round, which would prevent a Splitter-like situation from ever taking place. Is an early second round pick becoming more valuable than a late first rounder?
early 2nd round > late 1st round?
It seems that way doesn’t it. I really don’t think the Spurs need to do that stash a player overseas thing this year. That hasn’t worked very well the past few years. I’m thinking the Spurs are in a good position where they are, so there isn’t any need to get too cute this season. I see that draft express has the Spurs taking Roy Hibbert. God I hope that doesn’t happen, Hibbert is going to be dead weight in the NBA. There’s isn’t a huge need for a young big since Mahmini is waiting in the wings. I just hope that either Lee, CDR, or Rush is available at 26. Get another athletic wing in free agency, keep Thomas and roll with that next season.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
Wolf, I’ll disagree with your disagreement, but on a technicality.
If you asked me mid-season what the Spurs team of ‘08 needed most, I’d say an athletic wing who plays defense. But with the free agents gone from our squad, and judging by who is signed for next year, I think our biggest priority is a Big. We need a Big just to get us back to where we were. That was my thinking anyway. Personally, I’d be much happier going into next year with a set of wings: Bowen, Manu, Brent, Ime than the set of Bigs: Duncan, Oberton, Bonner, Mahinmi.
I totally agree on the “some of those needs can be met by the same player”. I re-read my post and realized I left that out. That was HUGE omission on my part. I think if we can get a backup point guard who can penetrate and create his own shot, then that reduces the need for a wing who can do the same. Getting a wing who can create his own shot reduces the need for a backup point guard. Etc.
The source for the FinDog is me. I wasn’t trying to suggest he is adequate. It does read that way though. Another error on my part. I meant to indicate I wouldn’t be surprised if the Spurs front office considered him adequate. I’m a big FinDog fan, no surprise there, but his performance in the playoffs disappointed me. I’m very much for the Spurs not signing him if they can find somebody they think will fill that “bury 3-ball play a little defense” role better. Again, I won’t stroke out if the Spurs decide he’s the man for that role.
I had thought about Carlos Arroyo. I’m not sure he’s Pop’s kind of player. Arroyo has clashed with Jerry Sloan and Larry Brown. Just saying that doesn’t bode well for playing for Pop.
I watched zero college basketball. I don’t know anything about anybody’s game. I know Hibbert is big and I know “they” say he needs to play in slowdown system that executes sets. That’s us. I wouldn’t see him being anything but a body to bang other big bodies. Hell, he can’t be slower afoot than The Big Mouth or Yao, could he?
I was going to question your assertion that Childress would fill the “bury 3-ball” role but he shot .03% worse than Finley and Udoka, so I’ll go with that one.
nbadraft.net has CDR at 27.
All in all, though, I think your roster seems reasonable as long as the Childress and KT money falls in line.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 19, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Notice how nice you are to those not named SiMA? “I’m sososo sorry, those were great points, I completely agree, you’re so wonderful, more tea Mr. Wolf?” It’s a serious problem. None-the-less, your attacks bounce from me like so many rubber bouncy balls. And my pipe dreams live on. Just wait until I propose the “all but TD and Manu for Howard” idea in a year or so; it will BEG your disdain.
Okifurr.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 19, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You are such a cry-baby.
I was up in Santa Fe last week and thought of you as some guy in a big truck with a Texas grill and CO plates drove past.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 19, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Should have called me, I’d have shown you all the secret best Mexican food places. I need to go down to SF and Albq soon for work, and you there would have given me more reason. But I see where I rate.
:: single tear ::
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 19, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I am NOT going to Santa Fe to eat Mexican food. If I lived in CO, I’d understand. But I live in Austin.
Just messing with you, I loaded up on some red chili sauce breakfasts. I can tell you that. We were staying in the Plaza so we mostly ate there with our mandatory trip to Cafe Pascual’s.
We did head out to Bobcat Bite but they were closed that day. I was pissed. Best burger you will ever have. Period.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 19, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but it’s a different kind of Mexican food. Heavy on the chiles, and not so much on the “Tex-.” It’s glorious. Pascual’s is good, but Tomasita’s is the best. And you’re right on about Bobcat’s.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 19, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
One of my coworkers is from Albuquerque and won’t shut up about New Mexico Mexican food. Red chile sauce this, green chile sauce that, blah blah blah.
However, right here in the heart of Texas, we’re only an hour from the AT&T Center. Any Mexican food improves 1000% when consumed on the way to a SPURS game. Game, set, match to Austin, Texas!
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
Holy hatch chile!
I am from Santa Fe. New Mexican food is the best kind of Mexican. There is nothing like it anywhere. I am sorry but Tex-mex does not come close.
It is fun to read you guys chatting about my old haunts. I live in Portland and I would kill for a Bobcat Bite Green Chile Cheeseburger.
BTW, thanks for the cup o’ tea AusTech.
Wow, I can’t believe you are arguing that the food you grew up with is superior. I doubted your objectivity, but then you mentioned that you were from Santa Fe, leaving me no choice but to accept your opinion unquestioningly. I am now a convert. From now on, I will punch in the face anyone who dares suggest I consume the garbage that the inferior Tex-Mex restaurants put on my plate.
Fajitas? Puffy Tacos? Bah. Get that weak stuff out of here. If it ain’t got red sauce or green sauce, I want nothing to do with it.
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
Amen, Vdub. New Mexican has no equal, though Tex-Mex IS amazing. I will say though, that I can eat NM everyday…......but “Velvetta in enchiladas Tex-Mex” is only amazing for a time, then I need a break.
Tomasito has the point-set-match though. I would eat nails and glass if my table were in sight of the AT&T. I can’t possibly in good conscience engage in an argument about food, when on the other side there’s a guy eating on his way to a live SPURS game. That’s just unfair.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 20, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
velveeta?
i lived in san antonio for 15 years, i never had an enchilada with velveeta in it. where did you eat at, taco bell? jack in the box? did you go for the good stuff at fajita junction?
dave mcnulla
spurs fan
Somewhere in Houston, I honestly don’t remember the place. It was a tex-mex joint, but I didn’t catalog it and ran quickly into the night upon finishing. And unfortunately now, I paint many tex-mex joints with the same broad brush.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 23, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
didn’t mean to come off sounding like a jerk. but you should give it another chance.
dave mcnulla
spurs fan
I had the same thoughts...
...about the velveeta comment. Initially I was insulted, but I then I decided to just drop the whole thing. You can’t really argue with someone about their favorite food; it’s like arguing with someone about their favorite color: “no, I like green.” “No, red is best.” You just aren’t going to get anywhere.
In my experience, people from New Mexico love them some green and red chile sauces. Since there are so many expats in Texas, I hear about it a lot, and I can’t rebut their claims, because honestly, how many Texans have been to New Mexico?
I also agree that Houston is a poor choice for a representative sample. Austin has some good places here and there, but it pales in comparison to San Antonio; that is where it’s at.
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
I bow my head in shame. You’re spot on. I would trade sitting in the desert eating the best Mexican food in the world for good Mexican food on my way to see Manu live. There’s no debate.
That said, come this way in the off season, I’ll take you around and you’ll be amazed.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 20, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Forgive me, you’re right. OUR pipe dream. I just didn’t want you to go down too as ATS’s Greyhound full of hatred rolled by.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 19, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Well when you realize what is the core issue of his hate…. it puts everything into perspective….
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
I almost spit on my keyboard. Good one!
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 19, 2008 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for that, that’s seriously the hardest I’ve laughed all week.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 20, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Hold On There
Udoka no matter how crazy it sounds is Bowen’s successor. He plays good defense and needs to learn to commit less fouls.
We need a backup for Manu a young drafted guard or Azubuike.
Parker Vaughn and Barry can survive us one more year. We can also draft a PG to shelve till Barry and Jacque are gone.
Duncan, Miahmini, Kurt, Oberto, and Bonner.
Wait till 2010 to make the big splash and we should be good from then on out. Would i like a title next year of course. But do i expect one? No. I know Timmy will get 1 or 2 more in the next 5 years.
El Ranchero
by Manunited on Jun 19, 2008 5:35 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I thought about bringing this up as a joke too, but it’s not even an almost. There aren’t enough cameras in SA, even if we could afford the $40 million per year he’s going to demand in ‘10.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 20, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
point guard
Pepe Sanchez is available now, he has ended with Barcelona.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz-SOWRjeLA
Could be a good option for Backup PG
A scouting report on J.R. Giddens
This is by the executive editor of RealGM.com (not Giddens agent or anyone associated with him)
http://www.realgm.com/src_fromtherafters/202/20080620/draft_report_jr_giddens_of_new_mexico/
“Draft Report: JR Giddens Of New Mexico
Authored by Christopher Reina – 20th June, 2008 – 11:17 am
JR Giddens is one of the best athletes in this draft and uses that athleticism not just on dunks, but to make very pure basketball moves.
He has great confidence with the dribble and I believe he will be able to create his own shot in the NBA.
He has a great crossover dribble to get himself into the paint. He creates space for himself by being able to stop as quickly as he can start.
Giddens is also very good at using pre-dribble jab steps to get himself an extra edge into the lane. His jab step is not a token show move and if the defender doesn’t budge, he’ll simply take what is given and beat him off the dribble.
He has immaculate body control in the air, finishing mid-range jumpers off the glass.
When he does get into the paint, he is very conscious of the kick out and sets up his teammates with wide-open 3’s. Giddens has great court vision and will spot and deliver the ball to his teammates from across the floor or he’ll thread the needle on a drive and dish.
His post entry passes are superb and also does a great job passing out of the pick and roll.
If you could tilt the scale on assists to the passer or shooter based off who creates it, the vast majority of his assists are full tilt his way.
He makes great decisions in the air and his assist/turniover ratio went from .87 as a junior to 1.41 as a senior.
He is one of the best non-point guard distributors in this draft, right up there with Kevin Love in terms of both impact and talent.
The mechanics of his own shot are flawed, but passable. He has a high release and a good follow though; he also has an extremely wide stance, with his feet wider than his shoulders, but he gets good lift. There is a little hitch in his shot when he brings it to the top, but that can be ironed out.
He also seems to shoot better off the dribble because he doesn’t get the cleanest catch when he spots up and I honestly can’t figure out why that is.
But Giddens does move well without the ball, almost always moving and comes off screens hard.
Giddens might be the very best finisher in this entire draft. He is absurdly powerful in the air and will attack defenders and dunk on them with ease.
He is athletic enough to be a true stopper defensively. Giddens does a great job of staying in a defensive stance during the entire possession.
He uses his long arms to make life extremely difficult for his man whether it’s in the triple threat position or when he puts it on the floor. He defends against the pass extremely well, both on-ball and getting his arms into the passing lanes in help defense.
He also led the entire Mountain West Conference in rebounding with 8.3 per game. He elevates extremely well and has incredible reach with his arms. Giddens has a tremendous motor and innate desire to get after the ball.
He has a great work ethic, getting onto the floor for loose balls and always giving maximum effort.
Giddens is not the knock ‘em dead spot-up shooter you’d ideally like from a wing, but he is plenty athletic enough as a slasher and defender to make an immediate impact while his shot comes along.”
Why is this guy the 46th pick on draftexpress.com and the 59th pick on nbadraft.net? There has to be something missing from the scouting report unless this source just says great things about everybody.
What was their scouting report on Marcus Williams I wonder?
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 20, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Well that’s just Reina’s opinion. Clearly he thinks highly of Giddens. I have watched him at UNM and I think highly of him as well. I think his stock is lower because the Lobos did not make the dance, and thus got no chance to showcase Giddens’ talent. Plus, he had was involved in a bar fight at Kansas (was stabbed in his achilles I believe) and had problems with his first head coach at UNM (who was later fired) so he got a somewhat undeserved rep for having poor character. Not only that, but he had a minor injury in the early camps so he did not get to show his stuff. IMO Giddens will be an absolute steal in the 2nd round. We are talking Stephen Jackson level talent with 5 years of collegiate experience (not that he is a Jax clone though).
Reina does not definitely sing the praises of everyone. His report on CDR is pretty scathing, and makes him sound quite a bit worse of a pickup than Giddens. His report on Hibbert was pretty much on target with his draft projections. You can go to realgm and read up on some of his other reports. He seems to have a pretty good eye for the players, but then again I haven’t watched all of the players he reviews as much as he has, so I am taking his word for it some of the time.
Is there a good Marcus Williams? Yeah, I was thinking the one the Spurs got early in the second round last year. It seemed like it would be a good way to judge scouting reports. Say, if Marcus Williams’ report sounded really good, then you know you are dealing with an analyzer who is more positive. Call it a better bell curve.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 21, 2008 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Biggest baddest need we have: Stop our opponents layup drills.
Second most dire need: A legitimate back up guard.
Third need: Athletic swing guy
I don’t know when we reached the point where we stopped caring about stopping the ball from going middle and forcing players along the baseline to act as a second defender, but when we did, that was the end our title hopes. Stop the ball from going middle and then everything else falls into place..you get easier defensive rebounds, force opponents into bad shots, frustrate the enemy. I think we may have started going small ball because of salary issues. Big men ain’t cheap. But, while we have Duncan, I say the Spurs open up the “F”ing wallet and pay for some quality beans.
Wish List….
Matt Barnes
Mickael Pietras
Jammal Magloire
DeSagana Diop
DJ Augistin
Robin Lopez
Roy Hibhert
My thoughts on your wish list:
Matt Barnes
Definitely not a Spur type player. Zero defense and streaky. A fun player to watch and a fierce competitor on the offensive end, but he’d live in the doghouse.
Mickael Pietras
Yes. A solid backup plan if we can’t get Childress.
Jammal Magloire
Too old and too slow. He couldn’t even get minutes on the Mavs.
DeSagana Diop
He’d be a decent pickup, but only if they can get him on the cheap. Need to save money for the wing.
DJ Augistin
It would be very difficult, nigh impossible for the Spurs to trade up that high.
Robin Lopez
Lopez would be a great pick at #26. Maybe he’d be worth trading up a bit for, maybe.
Roy Hibhert
I am not to excited about this guy, but then again maybe he could be the next Rasho (minus the midrange shot).
I would love having Hibbert, with his size and our defensive focus, he could be a Defensive POY winner.
by Linix129 on Jun 21, 2008 1:33 PM CDT reply actions
as ar as the draft goes...
i think the draft has been deep the last few years and this year as well. but man – im not really excited about anyone mentioned in association with the spurs. trying to look at it positiely though….....i hated CDR at memphis, but i do think his game could be a fit with the spurs given a little time.
hibbert would be a good guy to have around with tim in the middle for sure. he’s slow, plodding and doesnt jump too high – but he can play some D and board. he has the ability to develop a bit of a mid range game i think (hope).
the bottom line for me on the draft is that there are several guys around this year with the type of athletic talent and shot making skills that could fit. im just not super wound up about any of them as the savior. i really hope the spurs do take the draft seriously instead of trying to hide somebody else in europe/overseas. that tactic has been played out.
According to Chad Ford, there is a possibility that we will move up and try to grab Robin Lopez.
by Linix129 on Jun 23, 2008 1:04 PM CDT reply actions
The future Conan...?
just want to make this disclaimer up front: i didn’t read every single post so if i take someone else’s idea or if my thoughts are cumulative on this subject matter i’m sorry. i’m just bored and wanted to chime in.
As i read on some site today the future is now for the Spurs. I think that we have to spend money in order to keep up next season in the west because its only going to get tougher. I know we won’t go over the cap for anyone but they need to spend as much as they can. With that said i think we have 4 holes that desperately need to be filled in this order:
1. athletic scoring wings
2. a real big
3. wing defense
4. new blood to remind the team they can’t cost 7/8’s of the season
who can we bring in, well thats obviously been discussed, but i’ll discuss it again. Azubuke may be the cheapest wing with the most upside out there but supposedly he has a scary knee and he has to opt out of his contract first and we have to pay more for him than golden state or anyone else. I personally would love to have Vujacic, as much as i hated him as a Laker he’s just stinkin good. He can score and he’s a decent defender when inspired but we would have to pay more than LA and i doubt even if we offered more that he would want to leave, but i guess you never know. I’m not head over heels for Childress, best defender of the 3, really long kinda the poor man’s tayshaun but i think he’s going to want more $ than the spurs have and i think once again Atlanta will match. As far as bigs go the only non-draft big i’d like to see the spurs go after is Diop. He would fit so perfectly but i’m sure someone somewhere will over pay him. A few other guys that will come cheap that may help are kareem rush (the poor man’s pargo) and tyronn lue. Both journeyman and both not known for their defense but seriously we have enough defenders and we need some people to play 12 -15 a game and hit some shots and both those guys will come cheap. the last guy out there that may help is Quinton Ross of the Clips because supposedly he’s another Bowen clone and Simmons thinks he’s the quintessential Spur and you know that Simmons is always right.
Bottom line is this team needs new blood. The Timmy window is closing pretty fast (as well as the Manu window) and we need people to take the scoring load off the big 3 during the season or else those guys will run down fast, that in turn will make the regular season relevant and give us a chance for a higher seed. We need to get bigger and quicker so lets hope to god that they don’t sign Horry again or findog (like they are currently considering) or even Thomas unless they can’t get anyone else. Timmy, Manu, and tony need help so lets hope pop and r.c. give them some.
2 side notes
1. whats with the spurs’ obsession with jr smith (for those of you that read the buck harvey article)? i don’t think that will work out well at all, i’d rather have finley back i think
2. has anyone else noticed the ridiculous deals that are getting thrown the Sun’s way? my goodness you’d think that Kerr was blowing these other gm’s. i think the couple that are out there are Maggette and the #7 pick for Barbosa and the #15 or Ford and the Raptors pick for Diaw. – if i were Kerr i’d do them both.
I Like JR Smith...
...As a Spur, that is. He’s a knucklehead, for sure, but I think he’s a good player, and I think he’d fall in line after getting out of the me-first cesspool that the Thuggets’ locker room must be. Think Randy Moss with the Pats. Here’s what he gives you:
1. Height, length, athleticism: a 6’8” shooting guard with big ups.
2. Three point shooting
3. Attitude—now a negative, could be harnessed as a positive.
4. Lots and lots of tattoos.
One aspect the Spurs have been missing is someone who is unafraid to shoot REGARDLESS of how poorly he’s been playing. Someone like, say, Stephen Jackson. He pretty much kept us in game 6 against the Mavs (everyone remembers Steve Kerr’s threes, but he didn’t hit one until the Spurs had already climbed out of their 15-point hole on SJax’s flurry of three-balls.
I like him better than Childress, Pietrus, or Azubuike. The Spurs’ struggles are almost always due to offense and rebounding, not defense.
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
I do too. Guys like Tim and Manu can keep him line for sure. He’s really a wildcard at the moment. Is Pop going to take that risk? I kinda hope he does, I know some are going to say that he’s too much of a risk, but I say take the risk.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
Agreed
It’s a big risk, but I think Harvey nails it when he alludes to Pop sizing him up and making the call. If Pop thinks he can change and come around, we’ll have him. If we don’t go after him, it’s likely because of these kind of ‘behind-the-scenes’ events and I will completely fall back on my trust in Pop. Not sure if I’d put him above Childress or Azu on my wish list though. I’ve watched him play a lot up here in Colorado and though he’s got skills, he has a lot farther to go than the others do.
Plus, #5- No visible unsettling birthmarks.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 23, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Kind of agreed
I don’t disagree about JR Smith, although in my heart, I think Josh Childress is a long-term better fit. Smith strikes me as a Derek Anderson/S Jax -type, that will play for a season or two under Pop, repair his rep, and bolt for a big payday. Of course, if he bolts and has helped us get 2 more rings, then I’m perfectly Ok with it.
The question, SiMA is this: will you be OK with one of these guys when Pop starts him over Manu in the regular season opener?
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." – Aldous Huxley
Totally okay with that. Manu’s not starting regardless, and I’ve come to terms with that and even began to support it. I’d certainly rather start one of the three or four listed than Finley at this point. Manu is still the Manuest, even coming off the bench. And starting behind (potentially) a strong performer will only energize the Manu and drive him even more.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 23, 2008 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
J.R. Smith is only 6’6” in shoes. I do like his three point shooting and his ability to score, but I am amazed at how anyone could want him more than Childress. Childress can play many more roles than the scorer off the bench (who plays no D and has questionable shot selection). You mentioned rebounding. Childress kills Smith there. BTW, I also think the Spurs slipped quite a bit defensively this last season. Having another wing defender or two could pay dividends.
If we get a J.R., let’s get Giddens.
Smith has ability to play D. If he wants to get on the court as a Spur, it will be demanded from him, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Chill as a Spur because he is a young buck who will get after it on the defensive end.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
lol, I can answer that, or rather Manu can
Manu is comfortable with winning, and doesn’t care where he goes into the game, as a starter or off the bench. That’s the opinion that matters :p
“Craig Sager asked Manu a long question after the game talking about Popovich taking the top 6th man in the NBA and having him start against New Orleans and would he be comfortable with continuing to start against the Lakers.
Manu simply replied, "I’m comfortable with winning."
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.
i guess i just don't see it like ya'll do
i don’t like the idea of Smith playing here at all. I just don’t think he will fit our system strictly for basketball purposes much less character issues. bottom line is i don’t think the dudes a smart player. He doesn’t have the basketball i.q. so to speak. Ya he can jump out of the building and has 30 foot range, and can drop 40 on you out of nowhere but he’s used to taking 20 some-odd shots to do that. He’s not a high percentage shooter he’s a high volume shooter. Only tim and tony take 20 shots in a game and thats a rarity as both average about 15. i just don’t think on a basketball level he can come and fit, he just doesn’t have the mentality. Everyone wants to compare him to steve jackson but they are 2 totally different players. Ya jacks was the “anti-spur” and he would chuck them up even though they weren’t falling but the guy is a smart player, and he fit because he played smart basketball most of the time. Besides he was older than Smith and in a lot of ways i think more mature (not saying he was mature) but he didn’t have the rep as being an arrogant idiot like Smith just the rep of a thug. anyways thats my 2 cents on Smith – i’m pulling for Sasha or Kelenna or hell in a perfect world why not both – wouldn’t that be something. Beside Smith will be looking for something in the 5 yrs. $30 mill. range and i don’t think he’s worth that.
At 5yrs/30 mil is too much, but if he is signed at a reasonable deal and becomes a Spur, you think he will be taking 30 footers with 15 seconds on the shot clock. Hell to the naw, he won’t because the Spurs have a coach that actually coaches and the vets would be getting on his ass if he came in doing shit like that. You have to remember, this kid is only 22. He has talent that can be harnessed and the Spurs have the organization and the players to harness that ability. He is like a wild colt that needs to be trained, the Spurs have the right trainers for th job. I’m sorry, but I don’t want to see a bunch of gimpy old dudes running out there next season. This kid can play and he would provide some youth that this team desparately needs.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
my draft wish list
ok – i finally went back and looked at the draft board to jog my memory about who is out there and who might be around when its time for the spurs picks. i have already commented on some of these guys as well. anyway:
guys that i would like to see the spurs get in round 1:
robin lopez – i like the idea of going up to get this guy. his brother brook is a better scorer, but robin is a better defender and rebounder. he works like a dog on both ends of the floor, but seems to maintain a calm demeanor. a smart kid that could get it right away. i actually think it might work to the spurs benefit that he isnt much of a scorer.
roy hibbert – i like him too, hes a big slice of beef that wont be moved on the post. also a smart guy with limited offensive skills, but could take a big load off our defensive rebounding woes.
CDR- never liked him at memphis – poor shooting judgement, cant make free throws, general lack of focus. but when he’s on, he can score and slash with the best. kind of got overshadowed last year by rose, or would otherwise be considered as a higher pick, i think.. this would fit a need and he doesnt seem to be a jackass that will cause problems.
kosta koufos – yeah, i went to ohio state and yeah i saw this dude play live about 15 times last year. i was frankly surprised that he went out and styaed out. but he can score around the goal and he does have good range. defensive rebounding is a weakness, but as the year wore on, he developed a little bit better knack for it and defense. would have to put on some pounds, but i wont be pissed if he falls to SA. a pretty good passer as well and has some handle.
maresse speights – good athletic dude around the goal. knows how to rebound and play defense. in the right spot, this guy could log a lot of years in the league as a serviceable big man.
courtney lee – good scorer and shooter from the wing, which fills a need. WKU is a good sold program that flys under the national radar a lot. they graduate a lot of kids and put out generally heady players who know how to play the game. plus, i play hoop with a guy who played at WKU who tells me that this kid is god (go figure).
some guys to look out for in round 2:
kyle weaver – most predictions have him going higher, but this is a guy that can do just about everything well. not great, but well. a lock down defender, rebounds well for the wing position has good handle, passess well and is a clutch scorer. i watched him all the last two years thinking about how well he could fit in with our guys.
malik hairston – another one of my favorite guys who can do everything well. like weaver, not great, but well. slick passer, plays bigger than his 6-5 frame and knows what to do when he gets the rock.
trent plaisted – good looking offensive scorer around the basket that has a surprising number of blocked shots. comes from a solid program that knows how to develop all around skills in their players.
luc richard mbah amoute – try saying that 5 times fast. not a scorer, but very athletic. this guy is a college version of bruce bowen. an absolute lock down defender that will mix it up with you at any time. i’ve even see him use that splayed foot landing technique that our bruce does so well. he rebounds well too and has the fab oberto kind of knack for finding himself alone under the goal from time to time.
othello hunter – another homey from ohio state for me, but here is a 6-8 power forward type that plays rugged defense and will rebound the ball. he never scored much at ohio state, but has surprising range and accuracy from the mid range. translation – he didnt shoot a lot either – but was never a high offensive option in that offense. great motor, smart player.
josh duncan – another ohio homey from xavier. smart, tough and a strong defender/rebounder. has good range when faced up. a tough smart kid that will play hard wherever he goes (even if that is europe).
i dont think that the next big guy will be out there for us in the draft by any means. not sure how we will find that person at all really – but the spurs could do well in trying to find guys that fill a need and groom them in a winning program over the next few years.
hey ATS!!!!
calling out on your music knowledge. gotta throw a band name back at you. austin band – called the black angels. i saw them last year when they came around and i will be seeing them again in cincinnati tonite.
ever heard of them? might be transplanted austin-ers (or is it austin-ites?).
very different – kinda trippy rock with a lot of guitar and echo/reverb. but very good.
I have not heard of them. But I’ve been a bit out of the loop since about October (You know, when the NBA season started)
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jun 24, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Just a great post, ATS. Kudos to you.
Haven’t been able to post lately (ill and with finals, not a good combination) and it would take a ginourmous (nyuk nyuk) amount of time to go through all of these opinions and answer individually, so I won’t even try. Maybe after the draft we can get a feeling of what the Spurs plan to do.
I think it’s obvious KT’s coming back. Looking back at the playoffs, KT and Findog really came through in a couple of games. We shouldn’t ignore that, although Findog could be replaced with some other veteran sharpshooter – maybe.
I kind of agree with piojo, who said the Spurs should hire Pepe Sánchez. (For those who don’t know him, he’s a historical Argentine national team point guard.) If not with the choice itself (Pepe is done), I agree with the general idea: get a veteran international point guard, who have a lot of experience and can be much cheaper (Scola and Fuckface Splitter are the exceptions). Check the Olympics for easy choices.
Seriously, they can’t be worse than Vaughn.
Draft day is almost here
Some current thoughts on potential pickups for the Spurs.
26The cringeworthy picks:
Omer Asik©: If the Spurs don’t take him here, the Blazers will likely get him with their newly acquired #27. While he is loaded with potential, I don’t like getting him in the first round. He could blow up in the next couple of years and earn a much higher paycheck overseas. This could be another Splitter scenario.
Nicolas Batum (SF): If the Spurs pick him, I won’t be surprised, but I won’t be excited either. He is super athletic, and has “tremendous upside potential,” but he is currently soft and unpolished and won’t likely contribute anything in the Tim Duncan era.
Ryan Anderson (PF): His game sounds a lot like the Red Rocket’s. Do we really need another Red Rocket, even if he is just a little bit better? I don’t think so.
Mario Chalmers (PG): His stock is being driven up by the dearh of point guards in this draft. I just don’t think this guy is that great. He has not looked good in the workouts.
Now the good:
Alexis Ajinca©: He might go much earlier, but if he is still on the board the Spurs should grab him. He still needs to develop, but I think he has a much better shot at having an impact (and having that impact sooner) than Batum or Asik, so he is worth the pick. He is an excellent shotblocker and defender, with very good athleticism and a decent offensive game.
Chris Douglas Roberts (GF): Love him or hate him, he would provide some slashing and jumpshooting from the wing. He would be a solid pick this late.
Roy HIbbert©: He has grown on me after watching some of his vids and reading his workout reports. Supposedly he still has some room for improvement with his game, even though he is a perfectly servicable backup center already. It would be nice to have a couple 7 foot shot blockers protecting the paint again.
Robin Lopez©: The Spurs would likely have to trade up for this, but you sometimes crazy things happen on draft day. I would really like for the Spurs to get this guy. His defense is good, and he would bring athleticism and shotblocking to the Spurs frontcourt. He would be ready to play, but still has potential to improve (especially on offense).
J.R. Giddens (SG): He is one of the best athletes in the draft and is an outstanding defender and rebounder. His offensive game is solid. He is a good slasher, excellent passer, ridiculous dunker, a decent mid-range shooter, and an OK perimeter shooter. He would be ready to play right away, and if his shot mechanics can be worked out he could even become starting caliber. He is kind of a sleeper because a lot of projections have him in the second round. The word is that Memphis is very high on him and will likely take him at 28. The Spurs could consider him at 26. If he were still available at #45 they should jump on him.
Courtney Lee (SG): An excellent mid-range shooter with nice athleticism and a high basketball IQ. He could probably become a good defender in the Spurs system. He would probably be a solid acquisition.
Donte Greene (SF): If he plummets this far, the Spurs might take him. Great size and shooting ability. I am somewhat on the fence about this guy, but he is probably worth the gamble with this pick.
JaVale McGee©: He’s another 7 footer that probably will be picked sooner, but the Spurs should consider if he’s still on the board. Super athlete and shot-blocker. Protect the paint and alley-oop! Tyson Chandler anyone?
Second round: Get Giddens, Greene, Courtney Lee, or Hairston, or whoever, but stay away from Trent Plaisted.
Chad Ford wrote today that we could have Batum locked up
Apparently the Spurs brought him in for a workout yesterday and now his agent is no longer returning calls.
If that is truly the case then I will only be happy if we get Giddens or someone good in the second round.
He appears to be years away from playing at an NBA level. He is 19, extremely gifted athletically, but he is soft, inexperienced, and does not play assertively.
I just don’t see the point in picking up a player who will most likely never positively affect a game during the remaining few years where Duncan is dominant.
Maybe 4 years from now I will be thinking, “I am so glad we got Batum. He is that reliable third scorer who complements Tony and Ian,” but I will wait to feel good about this pick (if it is indeed our pick), until that point.
The is entire decade so far (when we didn’t trade our first round pick) we drafted young foreign players (2007 Splitter, 2005 Mahinmi, 2004 Udrih , 2001 Parker) so it’s not like this would be anything new.
If there are no servicable guys on the board who could play right away at that point, then by all means they should pull the trigger on Batum. If not, then it just means the Spurs will be maintaining the status quo; shunning the U.S. players and stashing a guy in Europe with the hopes that he makes it big.
Batum is out of his contract in Europe and ready to come over. He may not crack the rotation to start the season but with a solid set of skills he could make a significant contribution. I think Pop knows something like this needs to happen to counter LA and NOs youth and athleticism.
Anyone else see the report of SA shooting out an email to all execs shopping the 26 pick? Ugh.
Allez Spurs!
That sure was a humdrum draft
I had read that they worked out George Hill. I thought for sure they were looking at him for the second round. Apparently they saw something they liked in him, but man that was a surprise. CDR, Giddens, and Greene were all still available. I just wonder why they didn’t take one of those guys, and use the 45th pick on Hill. He wasn’t high on anybody’s list and Chalmers was still available so it wasn’t like they needed to take him because someone else would have drafted him based on need.
I am pretty sure that Giddens or CDR will be better pros than Hill, while Greene is a crapshoot (but still a good gamble). In Giddens case, he would have wowed us with his defense, his rebounding and his dunks, and it’s not like he is a bad shooter by any means. I am sure the Spurs were scared by “character issues” that were really no big deal. He was in a bar fight in Kansas and was stabbed, and he butted heads with a lame duck coach in 06-07. He didn’t do anything extreme and he was disciplined by being made to sit out some games. Since then he has been an extremely solid citizen and has apparently grown up a lot. He has the ability to be an impact player in the NBA. Someone who you can send out there to harass a star guard, and also score on the other end (and not just uncontested three pointers).
Hill supposedly is a 6’2” combo guard (a la Pargo) who plays red carpet defense, but is a pretty good scorer. I really hope he proves me wrong, but this draft looks pretty crappy. 1 mediocre short combo guard, and 1 mediocre point guard, and James Gist (a guy who probably won’t make the roster) does not make for a solid draft.
One thing to remember
I think that we have a fair number of one of the NBA’s most valuable commodities this season: expiring contracts. It will be interesting to see if any of them get used this season and how those might help acquire a fire sale player from a non-contender (yes, Chris Kaman, I’m speaking of you). I think that this season, more than some of the others, might lend itself to some roster fluctuations the like of which we have not seen in SA in many years.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." – Aldous Huxley

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