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Around SBN: Don't Blame Wes Welker

Simmons redeems self?

THE ELIJAH DUKES AWARD FOR "ANGRIEST NBA EMPLOYEE DURING THE FINALS"
To Gregg Popovich, who has to be watching this choppy Finals thinking, "My God, we were better than both of those teams." Remember, Manu Ginobili was one of the best 12-15 players in the NBA this season, as well as the league's premier crunch-time scorer in the regular season ... before a bum ankle rendered him useless on both ends in the Lakers series. Let's say he was healthy. They definitely don't blow an exceedingly winnable Game 4 at home, and I don't see them blowing two huge leads in Games 1 and 5. In my opinion, they would have won two of those three games with a healthy Manu and had a chance to close out the series at home in Game 6. Instead, they went down meekly in five.

(The 10 biggest playoff injuries of the past 25 years, in no particular order: Manu in '08; Isiah in '88; McHale and Walton in '87; D-Wade in '05; Duncan in '00; Malone in '04; Worthy in '83; Pippen in '98; Magic in '91; Doc Rivers in '94. All of those injuries potentially swung the Finals except for Pippen's back injury in '98 -- that was the year when Pippen played at 50 percent and MJ said, "Screw it, we're winning anyway.")

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haha...

i think it was the same case in 06 with the mavs and heat… still, just goes to show you how much luck goes into a finals berth, let alone a championship. The Spurs are potentially looking at an astounding 8 championships had certain things gone our way (Tim injury in ‘00, 0.4 seconds in ‘04, Manu’s Foul in ‘06, and his injury this year). That isn’t to say we were guaranteed winners, but rather to exemplify exactly what it takes to win a championship. People always make the mistake of boiling it down to one thing or another (Phoenix fans continuously bitching about the suspensions, etc. while forgetting that they still would’ve had to beat the Jazz, and Eastern Champ), but the bottom line is that as good as your team is, at the end of the day things still have to exactly your way.

The only thing writing this post accomplishes for me, is that it honestly makes me that much more grateful for the four we have…

by Justin Biehle on Jun 17, 2008 1:23 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Couldn't have said it better...

As slightly bitter and misty about the potential of 8 that I also am, I’m unbelievably grateful and joyous for the 4 that we DO have. Seeing our trophy case and realizing what the TD reign has (or could have) produced is really, really gratifying. We’re going to look back in 10 years and cry uncontrollably with happiness.

But Simmons is still a douche. Regardless of his few moments of clarity and unBostonism, he’s an incredible waste of skin. I’d give up a nut to see Pop shatter a wine bottle over his skull.

by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 17, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

True – but I always remind myself that injuries are an important part of the game… or, put another way, durability is an important part of the game. A healthy Manu is one of the top ten pressure players of the past decade, but endurance and health were never his strong points. Pop should have recognized this a long, long, time ago… but he played him as heavily this year as he did back in ‘05.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on Jun 17, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

he did

pop did recognize that fact a long time ago, which is why so many argentinians and manu-lovers have railed on him for not starting and playing him as much as they would like. this year he was kind of forced to play him more than in past years due to injuries we had throughout the year (duncan, parker, barry). but you’re right about injuries playing an important part of the game, which is why we aren’t holding the trophy this year and the celtics are. the barry (reg. season) and ginobili (playoffs) injuries this year played huge factors into our outcome…and maybe the parker injury, too.

by znimrod on Jun 18, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, there are a lot of points that could be argued, but the hard facts are that Manu played 31mpg this year, compared with 29.6mpg during his All-Star year in 2005. That’s not how you should play a 30 year old off-guard who plays best with at least 2 days rest.

I’d also argue that a bigger factor early on was that Pop didn’t trust him back when he first signed… in fact, he spent a fair amount of time futilely trying to reign Manu in. In 03, Manu was just a couple of months recovered from a severe ankle injury. Those two short-term factors probably contributed far more to his min-per-game than any long-term durability concerns would have. For his first two seasons with the Spurs, he was still an unknown – he had the bad ankle coming in, but he didn’t have a history of chronic injury, and they had no idea if he was going to be another flash-in-the-pan Euro with more promise than production, or a truly solid player. Basically, there were no health-related reasons to limit his minutes back then.

Besides, even if Manu had joined the Spurs completely healthy, he still would not have beaten out Stephen Jackson or Stephen Smith for the starting position, or even for starter’s minutes. S-Jax had spent the entire previous season working anonymously and diligently on the deep end of the Spurs reserve list earning brownie points in Pop’s book, and Smith was at that point a “grizzled playoff veteran” who’s virtues had more to do with “savvy” than with “knee cartilage”... anyone who knows anything about Popovich knows that there was no way short of day-in-day-out-Jordan-level performances that Manu was going to get a starting position that year.

It wasn’t really until late in ‘04, when Manu was unquestionably the best off-guard on the Spurs, that Pop’s decision to move him to the bench raised eyebrows outside of Argentina. But really, that had more to do with Turkoglu’s inconsistency and Pop’s frustration with Manu’s deviations from the playbook than any concerns about his mileage.

Basically, I’m saying that Popovich has been pretty poor at managing Manu’s playing time over his career. Back in the 2004 and the 2005 seasons, Manu had very few serious injury concerns, but he didn’t even average 30 minutes a game. Starting in 2006, his durability became an obvious issue, and his minutes did drop to 28/game, but Pop should have been limiting him to 22-25 for the regular season. This season, he suddenly started playing him 31 mpg… and that’s just plain irresponsible. Just looking at the stats alone, you could have pretty easily predicted that Manu would be hurting come late May.

My solution? Basically, I think it’s safe to assume that Manu’s injuries will cost him 20-25 games per season for the rest of his career. So get ahead of the curve and hold him out of any non-critical games, or games where there’s little rest. Those b2b road games at Charlotte and New York? Hold him out for one of them. I don’t really care which. If there’s a fogafini, Manu only plays in 2 games… maybe only in 1 if they’re eastern bottom-feeders. Let the bench learn to handle tough situations. Make Popovich learn to coach younger players who can give energy off the bench. Let Tony go wild… he’ll love it.

And yes, I’m serious. I love watching Manu play, but not nearly as much as I hate watching him play hurt.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on Jun 18, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

i don’t disagree with you on the solution, but maybe a little on how much he recognized, or didn’t, the wisdom of limiting his minutes. i’m not sure anyone back in ‘05 would have realized the need to limit his minutes during the reg. season. plus it’s hard to limit a player like Manu’s minutes (when he’s healthy), he’s just too good to have him sitting on the bench for that much time. i understand completely about when he first arrived on the scene, you’re right, that was due more to Pop’s lack of trust. but it’s much easier said than done in how you manage Manu’s minutes. and i still think his playing time this year is mainly due to how our injuries affected our level of play – we would have lost a lot more games had Manu not played as much as he did, and who know where that would have put us in the playoff race.

by znimrod on Jun 18, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

One way to manage his minutes is to get some younger guys in here that can play. I mean if Pop had sat Manu this season on back to back or fogafini, this team would have ended up being 7 or 8 seed. Pop will probably curb his minutes next season, but right now the #1 priority is to make good moves in the offseason to get some depth on the wings.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on Jun 18, 2008 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

After reading his whole column, I almost want LA to win…almost.

by VWolf on Jun 17, 2008 5:04 PM CDT reply actions  

He played tons due to the injuries to Duncan and Parker, Barry, Finley (yes he was hurt for a bit), and everyone else. Heck I think the only Spurs that actually played the full time they were here (that were here in the beginning of the season) were Udoka and Oberto. Honestly. Bowen I don’t count because of that stupid game that he got suspended for, and he did sit out a game or 2 after that to rest some nagging thing with his hand.

The injury bug hit REALLY hard this year….more than other years. That the team is old is where the recovery time comes in, they aren’t really young and can’t just “spring” back up from that…it takes longer. This above anything else should be the big reason why they should draft NOW players instead of projects, and get Mahinmi up and all that…so that they can have young fresh players to plug into everything. Think of NO—-they could have had this year last year, but Paul, Peja, and West were all hurt at one time or another, costing them at least 20 games.

Considering that we lost Duncan, Parker, Ginobili (some 2 outta 3 for stretches of games), Barry, Finley, etc.... and we were ONE game out of the top seed from the West, and made it all the way to the WCF.....I'll say if the Spurs can manage to stay healthy next year, it's thier title to lose.   Honestly :)

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.

by Nixiack on Jun 19, 2008 12:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Argh, I was saying that considering we lost Duncan, Parker, Ginobili (some games 2 outta the 3 were out for stretches of games), Finley, et. al, and we still were only out of the top seed in the west by ONE game, and made it all the way to the WCF this year? I’ll say this…if they stay healthy next year, it’s the Spurs’ title to lose. Honestly :)

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.

by Nixiack on Jun 19, 2008 12:54 AM CDT reply actions  

totally agree

with all the crap we went though injury-wise, and we still were only a game out of #1, just think what could have happened had we been totally healthy. i was hoping that our injuries were going to be behind us going into the playoffs, but not to be.

and that’s one big thing that Pop needs to change: trust the new, young guys, and play them – that not only develops them, but it also saves some of the wear-and-tear on our main, older guys. i think i’m a little more interested in who we draft this year than in years past, because i really want to see us pick a guy who will actually play for us in their first year. and i think it matters more this year than it has in a while.

by znimrod on Jun 19, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

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