Are you a xenophobe?

by bellasa on Jun 16, 2008 8:37 PM CDT

It seems that the PTR family is not the only group noticing a little xenophobia with the NBA and it's fans.

Alvaro Martin of ESPN Deportes wrote this excellent piece on the subject matter in Spanish. Henry Abbott (True Hoop) with ESPN decided to include the English version on his web page.

I know people believe Manu is a flopper and early on in his career maybe he was. However, nine times out of 10 he's taking a charge and usualy a hard charge. Why should Manu or any other player be penalized because they make a smart play at the right time? Also, isn't this manuever legal? Don't you have referees on court to determine what is real and what is farce?

Although I think it's idiotic, I'd love to see the NBA try to impose a fine system to cut down on fake flops. At the end of the day, Chris Paul would owe a ton of money to charity and Manu would be in the clear.

Lastly, if you don't think this is an issue just read the comments at the end of the article. I tried, but it's too hateful to bear.

Here it is... http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-320/Floppy-Logic.html

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surprised to hear the dumb-ass comments from big chief triangle…wait a minute, i’m not surprised to hear him say something that foolish. i guess what really surprises me is that shaquille o’neal didnt say it first.

by bones on Jun 16, 2008 9:38 PM CDT 0 recs

great article. sadly, i think his arguments will not even be considered by 99% of fans and especially the media who try and paint that flopping is not what american players would ever stoop to.

What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)

the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post

by Hamer_SpursFan on Jun 16, 2008 10:14 PM CDT 0 recs

It doesn’t help that he wrote it en español originally, though maybe publicizing it through TrueHoop will give this thought more attention. The problem is that the perception is in people’s minds, and gets repeated ad nauseum. If Paul Pierce draws a foul, the announcers say “look how clever a ballplayer he is, selling the foul.” If Manu does the same thing, it’s “look at that foreigner flop. That’s disgraceful. That shouldn’t be part of the game.”

I think that if someone objectively sat down and charted flops, foreigners would not on average do any worse than Americans. I also think Ginobili would be in the upper third of floppers, but not one of the most egregious offenders by any stretch. That list would be headed up by Chris Paul and Derek Fisher, for sure.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on Jun 17, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up 0 recs

Of course it’s xenophobic. It’s perfectly acceptable to criticize all aspect of foreign players’ games (or even their accents or man purses) because come into the league as grown men and professionals and are impervious to fan and media criticism. They came from places where opposing fans throw coins and bottles at them on the court and the home announcers rip them to pieces if they have an off night. Have you watched the announcers in the Euros? They insult the players play all the time in a way that American guys just don’t.

I don’t think it’s as much of a racial thing as a cultural thing. Modern American athletes by and large are big muscular children, immature as hell, uneducated to the point of it being embarrassing when they have to speak in public, and with no concept of professionalism or maturity. They’re sensitive to criticism whether it’s from coaches, media or fans and like to be sheltered in their own bubble of yesmen, possies and groupies, completely protected from the real world where sometimes people don’t like you or something you did.

If somebody at ESPN called Chris Paul a flopper, his agent would be furious, they’d cancel all future interviews on ESPN, ESPN.com, ESPN Radio, and ESPN the Magazine and he’d probably call a press conference to fight these “hurtful and untrue” accusations.

by Aaronstampler on Jun 17, 2008 6:39 AM CDT 1 recs

stamp’s paragraph exemplifies the lack of class and what is wrong with sports on both sides of the pond. however, i’m not sure flopping is really included in that list. i might catch hell for this one, but i don’t really care about flopping in general. to me, this is the typical over-reaction to something that really isn’t that big of a deal.

don’t get me wrong, i get pissed when somebody flops to draw a foul against the spurs. but overall, how is it really hurting the game or the people involved? a few guys in the media dont like it? so what? a few fans dont like it? so what? there are a TON of things people don’t like that are not paid so much attention. and how does the league really intend to impose a fine on an obvious flop? thrying to legislate such a thing will make it even worse.

at the end of the day, a foul is a foul whether somebody tried to sell it or not.

by bones on Jun 17, 2008 10:43 AM CDT 0 recs

IMO Paul (American) and Nash (Canadian) are far worse floppers than Manu.

Flopping is annoying, but the flopping angle is ridiculously overblown. Does it matter that Manu flops when he is legitimately fouled, just to get the refs to blow the whistle, considering that players like Kobe can drive inside and get the foul call anytime he misses the shot? Oh, and yes, Kobe sells fouls too. He might not be a flopper but he is certainly a flailer.

by VWolf on Jun 17, 2008 12:33 PM CDT 0 recs

FYI-
Might want to avoid Basketbawful today if you get mad easily. Pretty much perfectly shows why there’s such misconceptions and such labels existant in NBA culture today, and how the modern internet “media” can be so irresponsible.

(I’ve been punching a wall all day imagining Mr. Basketbawful’s face.)

by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 17, 2008 3:30 PM CDT 0 recs

i just checked it out and actaully thought the whole thing was hilarious. i also thought that the falling over by itself coffee mug was a laugh riot.who was the guy in the parking lot? looked like mike bibby.

i have grown to like manu’s flopper image somewhat. its just one more middle finger to throw up at the rest of the league.

by bones on Jun 17, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

You really can’t take Bawful too seriously, that dude is crazy as hell. I don’t think he likes anybody, so it’s not just in regard to Manu or the Spurs. To me flopping is a part of the game, I know when I hooped competitively I would try to sell fouls. Whether I was drawing a charge or going to the hole, it’s part of the game. As VWolf mentioned above, their are far more egregious actions during a game to be concerned about. This fine for flopping shit, is really a stupid idea. The refs already suck, so this is only going to open a can of worms that doesn’t need to be opened.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on Jun 17, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

damn...

that basketbawful was some pretty ignorant stuff… that’s one thing that pisses me off…stupid people… in fact, I’ll just say I’m racist towards stupid people (because it makes SO much sense!). I explored that site a little bit and came away appreciating this little slice of (intelligent, classy) paradise here on the web.

As far as flopping goes… it’s part of the game, and the fine levee is too objective. There’s no way they can call it consistently accurate in a game, so by the time they make the move to video to determine who flops, the guilty party will have no recollection of the event in question. Flopping will continue, and the only way to police it is to do it like the euro leagues do. T the player up…

by scrappy-doo on Jun 17, 2008 7:45 PM CDT 0 recs

after looking at some of the euro 2008 tournament over the past few days, it strikes me that the level of flopping in the NBA pales in comparison to some of this stuff. this stuf is an art in soccer (or futbol, if you will….) .

by bones on Jun 22, 2008 11:05 AM CDT 0 recs

Yep, it’s out of control. I really am starting to love the game of soccer, which I never did before. But I really think the only thing holding me back from totally embracing it the way I do basketball and rugby is the flopping. Not the falling down, necessarily, but the writhing on the ground in contrived agony in order to convince the referee that you have just suffered the worst injury in the history of Sport. These men are supposed to be the best athletes in the world, and yet if somebody gets kicked in the back of the calf they act like my two month old when she poked herself in the eye (which was not funny at the time, but makes me chuckle a bit looking back on it).

I'm comfortable winning -- Emmanuel Ginobili

by pollackj on Jun 24, 2008 1:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

and it is very often the same move….hands covering the face while writhing in agony. doesnt matter which part of the body gets hit, its always the face that gets covered.

by bones on Jun 25, 2008 8:01 AM CDT up 0 recs