If you haven't already read on this
I haven't been following the Finals or the NBA since the WCF. I had some downtime at work and came across the Donaghy story Chris Sheridan has on ESPN (check out the link). Sheridan I'm not crying conspiracy or anything and I do realize that Dona doesn't have much credibility but.......I wonder if there are any Spurs games included in his 7 page report? Hmm......Also check out Marc Stein's take on the whole thing Stein. And again, I AM NOT a conspiracy jockey, the whole thing is just interesting. Public perception may not be reality, but it carries almost as much (if not more) weight. What do you think?
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I will be very interested in how this plays out.
I thought the exact same thing. However the one trump card the NBA can play is … The Spurs have won 4 rings in 9 years.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on Jun 11, 2008 4:25 PM CDT 0 recs
My response to the NBA's claim would be....
The Spurs could have won least 1 more. Especially in 2006. That 2nd round 2006 series with the Mavs still burns in my mind. Tim Duncan fouled out of game 3 for breathing on Dirk. Then Knick Bavetta calls a bogus foul on Bruce Bowen in game 4. Then the NBA jobs the Mavs in the 2006 Finals. I could go on and on, but I’m interested in seeing how this is handled as well.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on
Jun 11, 2008 4:51 PM CDT
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True
That and the two draft lotteries to boot
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
by raynorschiene on
Jun 11, 2008 5:24 PM CDT
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Oops
This reply was meant for CMoney
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
by raynorschiene on
Jun 11, 2008 5:26 PM CDT
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Clearly an asterisk belongs next to the Lakers’ 2002 title.
The WCF that year had the hokiest officiating I had ever seen (later that was trumped by the Oklahoma/Oregon football debacle). Donaghy is quite likely telling the truth. Recall that Ralph Nader wanted to bring a lawsuit against the NBA for the suspicious officiating in the 2002 WCF.
by VWolf on Jun 11, 2008 5:20 PM CDT 0 recs
Touche’. Tell that to Phil Jackson and he’ ll get offensive. Yesterday he said that the Lakers had gotten the shaft in game 5 of that series, so things evened out. I don’t know if the Kings really had the stones to win that series anyway, but the officials certainly didn’t do them any favors.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on
Jun 11, 2008 7:01 PM CDT
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*
I meant to say Phil would get offended not offensive, I channeled Reggie Miller on that one. Haha.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on
Jun 11, 2008 7:02 PM CDT
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Late in Game 6 when Kobe did everything to Bibby but bash him on the head (er wait he actually did bash him on the head) and Kobe was awarded with a trip to the freethrow line, the series and the game was there for the Kings. Unfortunately it was stolen from them, and that wasn’t the only play that tilted the balance in favor of the Lakers. They definitely had the stones to win. When talking about relatively recent also-rans, I respect that Kings team a hell of a lot more than the Suns of late, and somewhat more than the 2006 Mavs.
Yeah I read Phil’s comments as well. He loves to work the media doesn’t he? He can point to one call in game 5 that was questionable, as if that offsets two games worth of pro-Laker bias.
by VWolf on
Jun 11, 2008 7:45 PM CDT
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Yeah the Kings should have won that series, but it’s like they couldn’t get over the hump for some reason. Be it injuries, refs, improbable shots by opposing teams, it wasn’t meant to be. They were a good team. Was that the same year David Stern said a dream Finals matchup would be the “Lakers vs. Lakers”? After making a statement like that, he acts appalled that anyone would question the league’s integrity. He may want to point fingers at the rogue official, but he lended credence to the allegations the league is facing now. And if you ask me, I’m glad to see he is getting called out for it.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on
Jun 11, 2008 8:03 PM CDT
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I Must Admit
THAT Kings team and their cowbell ringing crowd WERE formidable, maybe their best. It just wasn’t meant to be I guess, too bad for them. And yes, although Stern claims sarcasm with the whole “Lakers vs Lakers Finals” quote, it was a stupid move. He never should have acknowledged that belief publicly. Now, along with the whole Donaghy (and to a lesser degree, the ‘effin Joey C incidents ). He has lended credence to the very allegations he and the NBA SO desperately want to extinguish. I LOVE IT. Can’t wait to see how this all plays out
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
by raynorschiene on
Jun 11, 2008 11:53 PM CDT
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The only title in their three-peat the lakers deserved was the middle one. The first one was bullshit too. Portland had a 15 point lead after three quarters in game 7 and every call went against them in the fourth and they refused to call fouls on the lakers against ‘sheed and every other blazer.
by Aaronstampler on Jun 12, 2008 2:46 AM CDT 0 recs
I don’t think that series was as questionable. Yes, it was weird how the Blazers did not get many calls towards the end of that one, but IMO the blown calls were not as blatant, and they did not span as long a period as in 2002 (two whole games of bias). If the Blazers could have just hit a couple of shots, they would have won that one. I also don’t remember them being hamstrung by (BS) foul trouble.
by VWolf on
Jun 12, 2008 11:53 AM CDT
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The real *issue for LA that first championship year was that TD missed the playoffs! No way the battle-hardened, veteran Duncan-Robinson-Elie-Avery-Malik-Porter-Kersey Spurs would have lost to either of those mentally fragile outfits.
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
by tomasito on
Jun 12, 2008 12:58 PM CDT
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I don't buy that
Portland did miss a ton of shots in the 4th quarter, and basically the Blazers team just imploded in 12 minutes. Sheed and Bonzi as young guys weren’t’ exactly great in pressure situations (maybe you remember how he bricked a 10 ft jumper in the Sean Elliot game in the 1999 WCF, then started kicking chairs and whatnot). The big key to that game was Sabonis was in foul trouble the entire time, and they were using Brian Grant to guard Shaq, which basically means Portland was screwed. They had to double him, and Shaw, Fox, Horry, Kobe were just getting easy looks at the basket. Portland’s shooters like Steve Smith, Stoudamire, Pippen, Bonzi went cold.
Rusty Longley v 2.0
by Ozzie Montana on
Jun 15, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
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As much as I love the game of basketball and love the NBA, all of this just further strengthens my temptation to abandon the league completely after Duncan and Manu are gone. My love for the SPURS will always remain, but I am so tired and so fed up with all of these stains on the integrity of the league that I cannot continue to be a consumer of their product unless massive changes are made. There is no reason to keep spending my money on tickets, jerseys, etc. supporting an organization so obviously driven only by a script. Stern only seems more oblivious and more arrogent with each quote, and it’s become comical how quickly the rest of America has also begun to question the league’s purity. It’s almost a certainty for me that unless the referee union is disbanded from the NBA and assigned to an outside and clearly more partial group, I will no longer be a follower of the new WWE that is professional basketball. Hopefully Stern realizes that I’m not alone in feeling this way, and makes changes to regain the fans’ faith in the game before it’s too late.
by SgtinManusArmy on Jun 12, 2008 1:41 PM CDT 0 recs
Yes...
Totally agree. You basically summed up everything I’ve been thinking. Thanks.
Allez Spurs!
by JustinBK on
Jun 12, 2008 4:56 PM CDT
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If the NBA had indeed done a thorough investigation of that Kings-Lakers series as Stern contends, then why was referee Bob Delaney never interviewed?
by 4Him on Jun 12, 2008 3:34 PM CDT 0 recs
I think many people are far too quick to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon. One referee, who has had character issues in the past, makes a claim that a game was fixed. Sure, it’s a game that seemed like it could have been fixed. But he knew that game was controversial, so I think it is very likely that he knew people would get behind him if he said that one was fixed. Think about it—if he was going to claim one game was fixed from the past several years, which one would he choose? He’d probably choose the one that people were already calling for investigations on. He wouldn’t pick some normal uncontroversial game.
The home crowd gives a big advantage to players, and it has a big effect subconsciously on referees, and that should not be ignored. Referees are human, and sometimes they botch important calls. But when people claim there’s a conspiracy, there needs to be more evidence than one man bringing up a controversial game from six years ago. Since the accusations became public, the Internet has already been set ablaze by people claiming they’ve known for years that the NBA is fixed, and got screwed over by Stern in . Let’s face it: if the NBA were rigged, the Spurs would not have won four titles in the last decade, especially by knocking out the “fun-n-gun” Suns several times on the way.
If evidence comes out showing fixed games, I’ll accept it. But until it does, I think the conspiracy claims need to be toned down.
by jkalb on Jun 12, 2008 6:09 PM CDT 0 recs
Sometimes, bandwagons are more than just bandwagons…. sometimes what seemed initially as a bandwagon eventually turned out to be a fact. I have no explanation for the SPURS winning 4, other than they were just that damn good and potentially that much better than their opponents. And I don’t think anyone is saying that the league is completely rigged; just that there’s some influence beyond players’ talent. Even ‘some’ influence is far too much. If you lie just twice out of twenty times, you’re still “a liar.”
Here’s another to sway you even more-
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3439554
by SgtinManusArmy on
Jun 12, 2008 10:58 PM CDT
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I admit
Back when the Spurs were first winning championships, I subscribed wholeheartedly to the conspiracy idea that the NBA didn’t want the small market Spurs in the Finals. You know the spiel, low ratings = lower advertising prices for the network = lower broadcast rights cost come new contract time = lower rev for the NBA = the idea that if given (manufacturing) the option, the bigger draws (larger market teams) would make the big show (the Finals). It was my belief that WHOEVER we played, we were going to have to overcome the other team AND the refs. We just had to be that much better to advance. And against a big market team like the Lakers, even more so. It even seemed like Pop understood this by not bitching and moaning to the media about bad calls/non calls or allowing his players to do so. Seeing how they handled this game in and game out, season after season eventually grew on me and led me the belief that crying conspiracy was pointless. The Spurs just needed to go do what they do, Pound that Rock, eff everything else. Again, I’m not officially on the “bandwagon”, I’m more so a VERY interested observer, but I’ll tell you this, I’ve got my credit card ready to reserve a seat. Think about it, worst case scenario, it’s very likely the Spurs could have made it to (and won) almost every Finals since Timmy’s draft (other than his injured season). There wouldn’t be ANY discussion about whether or not this team was A dynasty, they would be acknowledged as THE Dynasty (other than the old black and white Celtics) The fact that they even won 4 would be a testament to just how much better the Spurs were than their opponents. Again, that’s just worst case (for Stern) and I’m not on board the wagon just yet, but I’m watching (credit card in hand)
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
by raynorschiene on
Jun 13, 2008 12:21 PM CDT
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I don’t necessarily suscribe to a conspiracy theory or anything like that, but as I stated yesterday David Stern does not do himself a favor when says his dream Finals series would be the Lakers vs. the Lakers. Jokingly or not, if your league has perceptions about outcomes being swayed, you don’t say things like that. Donaghy is a reprehensible person, but I think it would be wise to a least listen to what he is saying. It’s possible that he is lying his ass off, but to dismiss what he is saying would be a mistake, especially from David Stern’s perspective. I mean look at how the steriods issue with baseball took off after Jose Canseco wrote his book. Stern has come across as smug and behaving as if this issue is really a non-issue, but I bet beyond the scenes he is raising hell.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on Jun 12, 2008 6:56 PM CDT 0 recs
Thank you so much for beating me to mentioning Canseco. The parallels are amazing. A once reputable figure becoming disgraceful and a cheater; then becoming somewhat vindicated in the end. We’ll see how the Donaghy thing plays out. I just remember a similar backlash against Jose, then years later everyone shocked when it appeared that Canseco was the ONLY one telling the truth.
by SgtinManusArmy on
Jun 12, 2008 11:01 PM CDT
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Sternbino is in big trouble. He is at his best when he is in the open court, spinning and wheeling. He is a master of deflecting critics and creating an aura of good feelings. He smooches up to the corporate sponsors and makes them forget about the latest scandal or out cry.
But, now Sternbino is caught in a full court press with no room to dribble. He is falling out of bounds and the shot clock is winding down. He is out of his element. He is like Nixon in his final days. He can spin no more, he can only act tough, bully reporters and deny deny deny. The golden glow is gone. The Lakers titles are now tarnished. The association’s credibility is zero. The old tapes of long forgotten fixed games are being replayed over and over.
The problem that Sternbino is facing is that fans aren’t stupid and can not be intimidated. He can threaten players and coaches in the association with retaliation. He can threaten reporters by cutting off their access. He holds the networks that broadcast games in his pocket. They would never dare go after him or their own cash cow. But, oh but, when Joe Couch Potato looks at Mike Bibby getting elbowed in the head by Kobe, get injured, get the foul called on him and then an ex-official comes out and says the games were fixed. Well, son of a gun, things are starting to line up. The Spurs have a power team in 1999, are up 2-0 on the Knicks, out of nowhere touch fouls start getting called in game 3. The Knicks appear to be given a victory so they will not be disgraced with a sweep. Jordan’s last year, in game seven of the East finals in Indiana, both Pacer big men get called with touch fouls and have to leave the game. Bulls win. The Trailblazers get mauled by the Lakers in the Western finals. The officials swallow their whistles in the fourth. Lakers win. The Bucks get touch fouls called on them and the 76ers advance to the finals with offensively challenged Mutombo shooting double digit free throws. Barry gets clobbered by Fisher as time expires in 2008 costing the Spurs the game and series. The association admits a mistake was made, but no official is fired. Joey Crawford challenges Tim Duncan to a fight and then openly displays abuse of power by throwing him out the game because he cracked a smile. Soon afterwards, Crawford returns to officiate Spurs playoff games against big market Lakers.
Notice a pattern forming? It is never, “Oh the Lakers got ripped against San Antonio” or “Those damn officials really were biased in favor of Indiana, the Bulls got screwed” or “The 76ers got jobbed, the officials fixed the game for the Bucks”. It is always the small market team the winds up with the questionable callls. What is that Sternbino? Just coincidence? Lots of coincidences keep popping up don’t they?
We see obvious favoritism, missed calls, touch calls, brutal play, hacking, grabbing, hard contact and then an official, somebody from the inner circle, flips. We see visual evidence, the FBI catches an official red handed. The feds are crawling all over the place. The NBA with all their monitoring and “super observers” (possibly just made up by Sternbino) fails to catch the Don. It isn’t until the men in black slap the cuffs on the Don that NBA starts throwing him underneath the bus. Sternbino says the NBA had noticed a pattern of odd behavior. OK, would mind showing us the documentation? Exactly where are the notes from last year? When did your observers start catching him? Who were the observers? What did they find? How come no action was taken? We are waiting Sternbino. What are we supposed to just take your word? Don’t count on that.
We have eyes, we have brains and most off all, we can’t be intimidated by Sternbino.
If even a shred of evidence shows up supporting the Dons allegations, Sternbino should be in front of a congressional committee within 24 hours. The association should be shut down immediately. Every official should be sequestered. Phil Jackson should be bound and gagged.
If there is wide spread cheating and fixing going on, Sternbino has to know it. So that means, he is either defending innocent officials with great fever or he is going all out covering up the most massive conspiracy in America’s sport history. If he is found to be lying, no punishment can be too severe for him and the NBA officials.
One last point, does anyone really believe that the greatest player in the history of the game at the prime of his career simply walked away from the game for 2 years to pursue his childhood dream of playing before 50 people a night and striking out 700 times a season booting ground balls around in rickety grapefruit league stadiums?
The fix is in and has been in for some time.
by Clintons Cigar on Jun 12, 2008 10:38 PM CDT 0 recs
Took the Words Out of My Mouth
Behind the scenes, I’m SURE it’s understood that any possible conspiracy confirming info leaks, fictional or non, WILL be severely dealt with (Stern has the nooses on easy to see display.)
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
by raynorschiene on Jun 12, 2008 10:38 PM CDT 0 recs
Isn't it ironic
From ESPN’s Jemele Hill: “On the day the news broke that Tim Donaghy told federal agents that referees helped alter the outcomes of a 2002 playoff series and that league officials instructed referees not to jeopardize ratings by fouling out star players or ejecting them, there was once-suspended referee Joey Crawford working Game 3 of the Lakers-Celtics NBA Finals.
And that typifies what’s wrong with the NBA. This is why some people are willing to entertain Donaghy’s wild accusations rather than accepting Stern’s firm denials. A referee who was once suspended indefinitely because of a personal beef with Tim Duncan, who had to resign from the NBA because he pled guilty to falsely stating his income, is back in the league and officiating on the NBA’s biggest stage.”
by 4Him on Jun 14, 2008 3:03 AM CDT 0 recs









