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Peace of Mind

No more complaining, whining, or bitching about "the no-call". We're moving on and we have more important things to worry about. But do know, that we were right. The debate is no longer a debate.  You can read about it here . But that's all right. We understand the refs reasoning for swallowing their whistles at the end of the game. Hopefully this will be the spark that we need to ignite this team. We win tomorrow and there will be a game 7. Let's. Do. This.

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I agree. Even with that call, the Spurs’ odds of winning that game are probably 50/50 at best. Barry would have to step up and hit two high-pressure FTs, and as good of a shooter as he is, those would be tough to knock down. Plus the Spurs would have to actually get a lead, which wasn’t exactly their cup of tea last night.

The Spurs need to get after it right from the tip tomorrow night. Hopefully Timmy rested well today after playing 44+ minutes, as he will need to be the man tomorrow night. Tony played 42, but I expect him to be fresh for this one.

by jkalb on May 28, 2008 9:53 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The NBA filed a statement about the call.

by Linix129 on May 28, 2008 10:12 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damn officials. But it’s over now, and it’s not coming back. Game 6 awaits and CMoney nailed it- time to move on and ready for our next game. GO SPURS GO

Here’s hoping that the officials don’t influence the outcome of Game 6 for either team.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 28, 2008 11:49 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah that’s optimism.
Sorry, I truly meant Game 5 in both references.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 28, 2008 11:50 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Think of it this way (if you want to consider the officiating)

The league also almost came out and stated something about Game 5 of the NO series, how lopsided it was (and the fact that Duncan only got 1 FT while driving to the lane and getting clobbered non-stop)......and EVERYONE was talking about the blown officiating well after the game.

We got Salvatore and Javie respectively (game 6 and 7), and if you remember in Game 6, it was no contest, we blew the Hornets outta the water. Duncan went to the line like 15-20 times. That said….Kobe didn’t get 1 FT, BUT at the same time, he’s only taken SIX Free Throws this whole series!!! So it’s not like he’s going to the line 15 times a game a la Utah series, and then ONE game he doesn’t. Tim was going to the line 9-15 times a game in the NO series, except Game 5. Jackson’s just doing his usual whining to the refs about why they aren’t sucking Kobe’s ballsacks nonstop. (What he doesn’t realize is that they can’t because there isn’t any room nowadays with all the bandwagon fans. It’s gotten so bad Farmar has to wear muffs at night.)

Long story short, expect excellent referreeing if you are a Spurs fan (aka the league handing Game 5 to the Spurs unless they play like they did in Game 4) in Game 5. They even sent in Javie, who’s partial to the road team. I don’t like it, since that leads to even MORE conspiracy crap for those numbnut theorists, but if you start seeing some really F’ed up calls go the Spurs’ way in LA…well remember you saw it here first.

(Wow I even got a Farmar shot in there…..it’s infectious!!)

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 29, 2008 12:06 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chickenshit

I know I am going to get blasted for this, but I can take it. I think it is chickenshit for the NBA to come out and say that. I know it was a foul, everyone does, but I don’t think the NBA has any business taking a side on judgement calls. Clock malfunctions, OK. Rules problems, OK. But judgement calls, come on. Have you ever heard the MLB come out and say a particular pitch should have been a strike instead of a ball.

Obviously we all agree that Odom blocked Parker’s shot, Fisher hit the rim, Kobe traveled, etc. If you are going to single out one mistake (after further review) then you have to single out all of them.

Again, I am not saying it was a good call, I am just saying I think this sets a bad precedent.

Bring on the hate replies as you see fit.

by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 12:25 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually...

I have heard the MLB make a statement after the fact on a judgment call. Come to think of it, it was last week on a blown home run call.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 29, 2008 12:27 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also

I disagree with you. I think the NBA established credibility when they make statements like this. They admit when mistakes are made. Just like during the Detroit vs Orlando playoff series when the clock malfunctioned right before halftime. The clock never ran and the pistons made a last second shot. The refs made a “judgement” call to determine how much time went off the clock and awarded the Pistons with the bucket. Replay shows the shot shouldn’t have counted and the NBA issues a statement saying so.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 29, 2008 12:32 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ehhhh! Wrong. I don’t think it is the same. In the Detroit-Orlando the refs got put in a ridiculous situation and had to make up something. Their judgment was wrong, but everybody knew they just had to come up with a “up-or-down” vote on the play. Even though the officials were incorrect, they didn’t perform badly.

In this case, the league is saying they performed badly. Especially by singling out A PLAY like that which is highly judgmental. It isn’t like a toe on the line, or a ball out of bounds, or anything like that.

It would be like major league baseball saying that the last called third strike of the game was not a strike.

by AusTechSpur on May 29, 2008 12:36 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Says you.

This happens in other sports too. Don’t you remember the OU vs Oregon game where the refs blew the onside kick call? They went to replay and still got the call wrong and OU ended up losing the game.The NCAA issued a statement on how it was a blown call. This is not something new to sports.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 29, 2008 12:41 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don’t think I ever saw that one. So, I can’t comment.

I’m not saying it is new to sports. I’m saying that critiquing the officials on something that is such a judgment call is peculiar. Balls and strikes in baseball, and fouls in basketball are HIGHLY subjective. I would find it strange if the league came out and said, “Kobe should have been called or a foul with 22 seconds left in Game 1 of the Lakers-Spurs series for using a forearm to push Bruce Bowen. He received a competitive advantage by the execution of said push and therefore, an offensive foul should have been called”. And then they could do it for every play like that. It would be pretty damn weird.

by AusTechSpur on May 29, 2008 12:47 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's a case by case basis.

Obviously the NBA uses it’s discretion on when to issues statements. This one call was the center of a good bit of debate. By going “on record” the NBA is making a statement to the public, players and referees that this type of foul, in this situation, needs to be called in the future. They are stating that the refs should not swallow their whistles in the last 20 seconds of the game and that by the NBA rules… this is a foul.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 29, 2008 12:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was at that game. It was unreal. That was the most obviously biased or incompetent officiating that I have ever witnessed. The fact that they reviewed it over and over again and still got the call wrong was unbelievable.

by VWolf on May 29, 2008 11:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why is it chickenshit? Is seems like the chickenshit thing to do would be to say nothing. The foul was so obvious that it wasn’t really a judgement call, and that is why they commented. Perhaps they were hoping to stem the wrath of Ralph Nader?

by VWolf on May 29, 2008 11:49 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not at all what I am talking about. That’s like talking about a ball that was or wasn’t dribbled on the line. And for the record they are going to go to instant replay for that one. Do you think the NBA will do that for fouls as well?

by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 12:31 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like how it says, “with the benefit of replay”. Really, you needed the benefit of replay to determine that. Blah!

To address PSLAKERFAN’S point, it is sort of chickenshit and sort of not. Both Odom’s block and Fisher’s shots were not at all obvious calls. And they were both very difficult to discern at full speed. But, yes, I think they do set a weird - if not bad - precedent by making an announcement like that. Should they catalog EVERY obvious missed call from EVERY game? It’s silly.

by AusTechSpur on May 29, 2008 12:33 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like you said above it is highly subjective. I expect to see 5-10 bad ball/strike calls per MLB game and I expect about the same number of foul/non-foul NBA calls to be bad as well. That is different than a clock malfunction or a bad view of a “goofy stadium” home run.

Like I said I am not arguing the foul. The NBA just needs to be careful with this one because they may end up getting tapes from every team from every game. The other problem is that a foul/non-foul from the first quarter is theoretically just as important as one with 2.1 seconds left.

I don’t expect anyone to admit this but I think if we were here discussing the same call from the Boston/Detroit series we would all say that it is a bad precedent.

by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 1:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The NBA is setting a precedent for a reason… To make sure that everyone knows that this type of contact, at this point in the game, needs to be called a foul in the future. The NBA is not condoning the refs to swallow their whistles and want to be clear that NBA rules would classify this as a foul.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 29, 2008 1:11 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree, with an addition

I think CMoney is right on this—but also, the league is making sure that if the Lakers are down 2 points with only seconds left, that S.A. doesn’t clobber whoever’s about to shoot and then get all righteously indignant when/if a call is made.

With this admission that Crawford screwed up, the NBA is saying, “Don’t think anyone else will be getting away with this from now on. Better not use this game as a precedent for how to defend in late game situations.”

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 29, 2008 1:48 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good call bnoth of you guys. +1 from me on that.

by bones on May 29, 2008 1:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, let me ask you guys this. Will anybody be surprised when that same call isn’t made again?

by AusTechSpur on May 29, 2008 1:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i wont be surprised either way. i just hope that the same exact thing does not happen tonite with manu jumping into kobe bryant and then it being called. we’d be right to be pissed then.

by bones on May 29, 2008 2:04 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But, by your argument below, that play wouldn’t have determined the outcome either. So, how could we be pissed?

I think you see where I’m going with this.

by AusTechSpur on May 29, 2008 2:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Does that mean you are wrong to be pissed now?

by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 2:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We have plenty to be upset about—it’s just that none of it has anything to do with the refs or the NBA.

It’s fun to gripe about this and it obviously is good blogging material, but what it boils down to is that it’s never a winning strategy to allow yourself to be in a position where you need a whistle to win the game.

First, I think that’s why ATS said in the G4 thread that Pop’s job in drawing up the play with 2 seconds left was to get a clean look for someone. But we didn’t. We got a contested shot and then we didn’t get a call. Second, when your team plays as badly as the Spurs played on Tuesday, a last second call is the last thing you should be ticked off about.

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 29, 2008 3:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hate the fact the NBA has had to come out a LOT this year/playoffs....

It just adresses further the need for a refinement in the NBA. 1st, instant replay on END OF HALF or END OF GAME calls needs to happen. They use it only to see if a ball got off the player’s hands before the red light goes on in the backboard as it is now. They need to expand it for shot clock and game clock issues. Also, 2nd they need to FIRE all the refs that have been linked to the game for 10 + years. The NFL has a few refs like that but to thier credit they constantly flux in new refs, etc…you don’t see the same ref in 2 different games a year, much less if the NFL actually did series. Game 5 will be the 4th-5th time the Lakers have seen Javie (remember they’ve only played 14 games now), and as pslakerfan stated, he’s thier “Crawford”. Imagine if the Spurs saw Crawford at least 5 times a playoffs? Whoo-ee….

Also I think that the NBA had to come out because A) to everyone, this is a marquee matchup. Everyone is actually talking about it, and it’s (last game) getting TONS of bad publicity. Also B) it was Spurs vs. Crawford, once again not Spurs vs. whoever….and this thing (bad reffing) already DID happen in Game 5 of the NO series. (Remember NO’s parade to the FT line, Duncan gets 1 FT, suspicious no calls galore, etc.) A lot of the pundits at ESPN and CNNSI, NBA.com, etc even stated the League was considering saying something then, but didn’t. I think they felt pressured now to do just that.

NO hate replies here pslakerfan, we don’t like this any more than you do (judging from the responses/replies here).

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 29, 2008 1:25 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree that they did it because of the Joey Crawford thing, but I don’t think that makes it any better. It just reinforces my theory that he should be fired. Not that I necessarily buy into the conspiracy thing, but simply because if they have to resort to reviewing and reporting on his calls then he is already done.

by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 1:39 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And especially when an “event” involving Crawford seems to happen every year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/070417&sportCat=nba

The longer Crawford stays in, the less credibility the league shows.

And for the record, I actually agree with pslaker here. More than anything because it doesn’t fix anything. They’re not replaying the game or last minute, they’re ignoring other major calls/non-calls that also affected the game, they’re not announcing the arrival of instant replay, etc. I can see CMoney’s point about serving notice in the future and that may be true, but it seems to be more sour grapes than anything. It only serves to exonerate them within the major media and further antagonizes an entire fan base.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 29, 2008 3:14 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Remember the game that Atlanta/Miami had to replay as a doubleheader?

Because the NBA said it screwed up the last few minutes of it and someone should have fouled out? Eh? Like I said, the NBA has had a really tough year, and needs drastic action at the offseason tilt.

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 29, 2008 1:26 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brother, is that you???

We must be long lost brothers or something. I commented on the Miami/Atlanta game a minute ago on the other thread, and you mentioned Phil Jacksons book on the other thread which I was reading today.

Weird.

by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 1:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nixiack just got flagged. He’s being watched now.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 29, 2008 3:15 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um, why?

lol, because I put something down that someone else did ? I’m a die-hard Spurs luver here :p

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.

by Nixiack on May 29, 2008 10:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the NBA had to do this to allay all the conspiracy talk.

That said, I think the NBA is far and away the hardest sport to officiate. In football, an official gets to look at a play and think to himself for a few seconds before throwing the flag. Then he gets to talk it over with everyone else before they penalize the team. In baseball, there is very little judgment; everything is an “either or” call. Either the ball was within the strike zone in the ump’s head, or it wasn’t. Either the baserunner beat the throw, or he didn’t.

I believe the NBA’s only solution is more transparency. They always talk about how officials are meticulously rated; why not make those ratings public, on a website like NBA.com? Everyone already thinks NBA officials are incompetent, so it might actually help to see how much they get right, in addition to how much they get wrong.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on May 29, 2008 8:01 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HERE-FREAKING-HERE

Transparency and education.

I think it would behoove the NBA to do two things.

1. Transparency. As Tomasito says, why not say what the ratings are? More importantly, why not say HOW they are rated. Nobody knows this.

2. Educate the public as to HOW the officials are rated. The fact of the matter is, we all could watch one play/possession in the NBA and find at least one foul. Or something that was called a foul at some other time in the game. I sort of covered this back in the New Orleans series when discussing the “home court advantage”. Why does the more aggressive, and usually more physical team, get the calls? I think it would be great if the league came out and said, “This is how are refs are supposed to call the game.” With tons of examples of good calls, bad calls, questionable calls, etc.

I mean, seriously, why is it that nobody really knows what a foul is. How many of us can pick out a moving screen from a play? How about a playoff moving screen vs a regular season screen.

by AusTechSpur on May 29, 2008 9:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or how the last two minutes of a game is anything goes (short of taking another guy’s head off) and the first 2 minutes are ticky tack.

Allez Spurs!

by JustinBK on May 29, 2008 11:54 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really hate the “superstar calls.” Like when Kobe shoots and the official waits to see if he hits or not. If he misses he blows his whistle. Yes, I know Duncan gets a couple of those too, but not nearly as many as other players, and I’d just like them to call it even for every player (like they attempt to do in the NCAA).

by VWolf on May 29, 2008 11:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i got stuck listening to a little of game 4 on the radio at the beginning. will purdue (who was not calling the game, but in some kind of “studio”) made a point about the lakers getting the whistles to start game 4 – and earning them by their aggressive/physical play. he followed with how the zebras switched that up in the late first quarter and that the spurs benefitted by getting some calls and getting back into the game. it seemed wierd to me, but did speak to your point about the team getting the calls.

by bones on May 29, 2008 2:02 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i’m kind of waiting for someone to chime into this thread about the non call in cleveland last year – remember the lebron/bowen non-call. it was almost the exact same thing as what happened on tuesday evening.

yup, it was a foul and nope it didnt get called.

we can cry foul all we want , but i think it evened out in the end , especially when you dconsider a lot of the game’s big calls. even if it didnt even out, the outcome of this game was not decided in that one play. shame on our spurs for being in that spot. a bunch of what the spurs faithful have said on here is true in regard to calls and no calls, etc. but i dont think the no-call was a “crawford-ism” against us here.

by bones on May 29, 2008 1:52 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That LeBron foul came up a bunch during the game thread. You might even say, it was beat to death.

I would also say that it isn’t exactly true to say “the outcome of this game was not decided in that one play”. It was. The game ended right then without us getting a decent shot instead of us - maybe - hitting two free throws to keep it going. I think it is more accurate to say it wasn’t the only play that decided the outcome. Like there 13 offensive rebound plays. Or Barry throwing the ball out of bounds in the last couple minutes.

In every 2-point game, there are plenty of plays that determine the outcome. That’s why, to get back to my point earlier, I think it is weird for the league to single out this one call to correct.

by AusTechSpur on May 29, 2008 2:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Lebron foul was different in several respects. First, while Bowen did foul Lebron, I don’t think he really affected Lebron’s shot at all. It was like Bowen grabs Lebron’s arm, Lebron steps away, rises up, and misses the shot. That’s not to say the foul should not have been called, but at least Cleveland got a reasonable shot up. The nature of Fisher’s contact on Barry prevented him from getting up a reasonable shot.

Secondly, Lebron would have had to have hit three FTs to tie the game. Assuming Lebron is a 70% FT shooter in those circumstances, that’s about a 1 in 3 chance (.7 * .7 * .7 = 0.343). Barry’s probably more like an 80% shooter, and only needed to make two to send it to OT. 2 of 2 works out to a 64% chance, 2 out of 3 is higher, and 3 of 3 to win it would be around 50%.

That said, I think they should have called the foul on Bowen. I hate the stupid intentional foul to make them shoot free throws, because with continuation, as soon as a guy feels contact he can go up for a shot and get three freebies anyway.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on May 29, 2008 3:00 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh man

I argued with some Laker troll about this in the game thread the other night. I was not in the right frame of mind to be having a conversation about a non-call in the finals last year in what ended up being a terrible (or easy, depending on how you look at it) series. I do admit that the Bron shot should have been a foul. Yes. Do I think it would have had any impact on that series? No. Were the Cavs even in the same league as the Spurs? No. Would I like the league to apologize for not calling the LeBron foul while we’re at it? Sure.

No guarantee Barry hits the free throws, no guarantee we even score a basket in the overtime the way were playing the whole game (up until the last 30 seconds, literally), and no guarantee we win if Crawford makes the call. Arguing about the call at the time of the play should have been a priority for the Spurs (its the one time they actually close their yaps and stop looking at the refs, hilarious) and when the time passed to protest we sit here and think about what could have been – if Horry had not played a minute, or Manu hit a few more shots, Barry didn’t throw it out of bounds, or Finley actually played basketball like a professional. I’m done now.

Allez Spurs!

by JustinBK on May 29, 2008 5:33 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this is pissing me off to no end. if the spurs would have made even half of their missed wide open shots they would have been 20 pts ahead. as much as i hate joey crawfish (i know), and wanna spit in his food and punch him in his fat bald head- this wasnt his fault. we lost because we couldnt hit the side of a barn. none of the shots fell. and i made some new cusswords up that night. fuck it. the spurs have to try their damndest to force a game 7. this is my rant. thanks.

JEFE666
"Because the mean ol' San Antonio Spurs ruin happy endings for players and teams whom fans want to see keep playing. Oh, and also because you're too reliable and humble, in a league where mouthy and enigmatic happens," -Mike Wise of the Washington Post.

by jefe666 on May 29, 2008 2:50 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sigh...

41 posts later… Good thing we’ve moved on from talking about no calls….

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 29, 2008 6:28 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We could talk about how difficult it is to win 3 straight games in the playoffs?

by SgtinManusArmy on May 29, 2008 6:41 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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