The Bell Tolls for We
(I had this post already mentally written with about two minutes to go in the game and then the Spurs came back. And now I'm all discombobulated. And what's incredibly fitting is that I'm moving tomorrow, so I have to disconnect my cable, t.v. and stereo system tonight.)
Please don't Spurs fans. Just don't. Yes, it was an obvious foul on Derek Fisher. Yes, it should have been two free throws. But, but, but:
1. Derek Fisher's shot with 5 seconds left, the one that hit the Corpse of Robert Horry's knee and went out of bounds, grazed the rim. The shot clock should have been reset, forcing the Spurs to foul. This would have changed everything.
2. The goal tend call on Lamar Odom with under a minute left was incorrect. It looked correct at game speed, but the replace clearly showed he got the ball before it hit the rim. This would have changed everything.
3. Kobe Bryant shot the ball 29 times. He took 0 free throws.
Complaining about free throws is just grasping at straws, like a vanquished foe begging for their life. It's unbecoming.
The story of this game is the really the same as the story for the season: Old and Slow. The announcers repeatedly talked about how the Lakers were "quicker to the ball." Well, yeah. They're quicker to everything. They're quicker answering the door. They're quicker taking a dump. They're quicker.
I mean Robert Horry played 16 minutes. A guy that passed up a wide-open 4 footer played 16 minutes. A guy that has LITERALLY done NOTHING all year to earn a SINGLE minute of playing time plays 16 minutes in the biggest game of the year. Shouldn't this automatically disqualify the Spurs?
Ahh Brent Barry. His play tonight makes me want to find Popovich and force him to give an adequate explanation for his continued infatuation with Michael Finley, who, by the way, was -18 in just under 9 minutes. Pop, long lauded as the master of adjustments, has taken too long to make them this whole playoffs. He waited until game 3 before putting Bowen on Peja, and West didn't even know Tim Duncan was on the defensive end of the court until game 6. Those gaffes almost cost the Spurs the series against the Hornets. Now Pop took too long to figure out Brent Barry should be getting Finley's (and / or Udoka's) minutes. It's inexcusable, really. Against the Hornets he could use the excuse that Barry couldn't defend any of their guards. But against the Lakers? Vujacic and Radmanovic are exactly the type of players Barry can be adequate against.
I didn't mean to turn this into a throw Pop under the bus rant... this is more an exhausted ramble than anything else. And I'm avoiding the obvious topic that has to be addressed. I just don't want to talk about him, you know? It's too soon. The wound is too fresh, and I just want to remember the good times we had.
Sorry this isn't eloquent. Sorry it's not fiery or vehement. I don't even think I managed a curse word in this whole thing. I'm tired, folks. This has been a long season for me, for you, for the Spurs. It's not over. But it's time to say goodbye.
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137 comments
Comments
well said..I don’t even know if I want to watch the next game…Manu is injuried, Horry and Finley suck ass, Tim and Tony can’t do it all by themselves! I love this team, but having no bench other than Barry stepping up would eventually cost us.
Wow..what a long season it has been..I will root for them, but I just don’t think they can do it, because they absolutely no rest in between games!
I can’t believe Kurt didn’t get any minutes again..what the fuck is the matter with Pop?
by adam8065 on May 28, 2008 12:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Much respect to you.
I expect a good game 5.
by Amazing_Happens on May 28, 2008 12:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
GLOATER ALERT!!! KNOWN GLOATER!
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 28, 2008 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m trying to so I can go to bed.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 28, 2008 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mega props...
Wow I really respect that analysis. I don’t know if I could have written something like that if my team got screwed like that. I agree that the Lakers outplayed the Spurs for most of the game and you are correct about those missed calls on Fisher and Odom. This shows me what I have always thought, which is that Spurs fans have a lot of class.
Hopefully this series will be decided on the court from now on and not with the whistles.
by pslakerfan on May 28, 2008 12:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought about it...
I was going to copy and paste what I wrote down in a response to pslakerfan but it’s just as wise that I don’t, for obvious reasons. So I’ll just leave it at this :
I hope you guys in Cali now understand why we at PtR were so skittish regarding this game. This analysis hits it right on the head, we played like crap. At least give the Spurs cred for not blaming anything on that…thing. We need to emulate them and lose with the same class we profuse to have when we win.
Good win Laker fans. You guys earned it. And truth be told, even though we are on opposite sides…should Thursday be the last time our two beloved teams clash this year, please don’t make yourselves scarce. It has been an immense pleasure talking to each and every one of you, save for the Truth fellow (who I don’t think is a Laker fan anyways). Let us know from time to time what’s going on over there, and we will do the same :)
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
by Nixiack on May 28, 2008 12:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you talking about a guy named “Laker Truth” If you are I think he crashes the Laker blog as well and I think you are right he is just an idiot in general.
by pslakerfan on May 28, 2008 12:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
theTruthSquad
But I really really think he’s GS (aka Ginobili Sucks)...someone we seemed to have picked up in the NO series, or earlier…just hangs around gloating/critisizing (sp?) in the worst way. Watch some of these threads tomorrow, I’m sure you’ll see him :/
Anyways, night to you good sir, I need the rest. At least today/tonight was good, until I got home and saw the travesty :/
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
by Nixiack on May 28, 2008 1:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Truth Squad is a Phoenix fan.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on May 28, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good post
there was contact there but your right there were a lot of factors that went into this game. although i would love to drive a stake in the heart of the spurs, i can’t stop from feeling nervous. i mean, there was no reason for the spurs to even be close in this game. and there they were. with a chance to win it and tie the series at 2-2. i’d love to gloat. but i’m too damned scared to do so. maybe after game 5. if the lakers win. as the spurs are packing up to head back to SA. maybe then. but not a minute sooner. lol.
by Tuna Helper on May 28, 2008 1:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You’re right to be nervous, Tuna. The Lakers are in control of the series, but the Spurs really played an awful game.
I have to give credit to the Lakers, because they were better on pretty much everything, but the Spurs can be much, much better than this, and with their backs against the wall they’re definitely not likely to be an easy prey in game 5. Three players shot well, for the Spurs, and one of them took only 6 shots, than you had Duncan (38%), Ginobili (25%), and everybody else (0% on 4 shots). And they still lost by just two.
Form is emptiness
by Kalkin on May 28, 2008 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Different language over here...
You claim that you’re too nervous to gloat here, but a few minutes later on the Suns site you’re glad that your team is “much obliged to put a stake in the heart” of the Spurs. You go on to say that it depresses you to watch the Spurs “grab, hold, scratch and claw through the Finals,” and that San Antonio is ‘crappy’. Hypocrite.
by 4Him on May 28, 2008 4:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why we’re badass. Research. You can’t piss on our backs and tell us it’s raining. I was just about sold until your comment. Thanks 4Him for identifying another LA faker.
by SgtinManusArmy on May 28, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The End
I am finished for the year, just like the Spurs. I will only sing one final song for all of you.
The Party’s Over, it’s time to call it a day.
They’ve burst your pretty balloon and taken the moon away.
It’s time to wind up the masquerade.
Just make your mind up the piper must be paid.
The Party’s Over.The candles ficker and dim.
You danced and dreamed through the night,
it seemed to be right just being with him.
Now you must wake up, all dreams must end.
Take off your make up, The Party’s Over.
It’s all over, my friend.
by TheTruthSquad on May 28, 2008 1:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You should have stopped with “I am finished for the year.”
by 4Him on May 28, 2008 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He posted the same poem on another post, apparently he’s really proud of it. Not much to do as a suns fan in the playoffs but write poetry though, I guess.
by SgtinManusArmy on May 28, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or still other people's poetry
Better yet, let’s not reply to anything that person says
by Gino20 on May 28, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a bummer
That last no-call really put a turd in the punch bowl, didn’t it? But it seems to me that the 26-4 Laker advantage on second-chance points was the biggest story of the game. And I agree with you guys about KT – he should have been getting more pt b/c of his defense and rebounding, and on the offensive end his mid-range game would have been helpful when we’ve been so reliant on the 3. And Barry should have had much more pt in the games in LA. I don’t think that Pop has had a very good series…
by 4Him on May 28, 2008 1:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't be too bummed out Spurs fans
Be happy for videos like this.
http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2008/05/kobe-verus-timmy-one-on-one.html
I know the first thing I’m gonna do the next time the Lakers lose a game is watch that video. It will always make me smile even in the midst of a loss.
by Davyjonze on May 28, 2008 1:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pure class
Not just this post, but the Spurs organization in general, and the players and coaches in particular. This reputation that the Spurs have like they’re the Darth Vader of the NBA is crap, and you need just look at how they lose to see it. No excuses from any of them. Not one. Pop saying if he was a ref he wouldn’t have called that a foul either (even after Phil Jackson said it was a bump that didn’t get called)... just 100% class all around, and it continues here on this site.
The downside to being a championship team is that it’s far too hard to drop a bunch of the roster to reload, even if a lot of the guys are clearly well past their prime. There’s always a feeling that champions should have a chance to defend their title, and it’s inevitably why dynasties have a lull following their successful period. While the Spurs are definitely a long way from being at the conclusive end of their dynasty, I think they’re definitely nearing the end with a number of their fixture roll players. I would only assume that guys like Finley and Horry will be gone next year, as the Spurs will no doubt reload with great new talent. You can’t help but wonder if the Spurs hadn’t won last year if there would have been a spot on the roster this year for Scola, but that’s neither here nor there right now. This summer some roster spots will be opened up for the fresh new talent that the Spurs seem to be masters at uncovering. I expect them to be back next year with fresh, young legs to help support the Big Three, who are all still in their primes.
This series is a long way from being over, but if it does come to an end on Thursday at least every San Antonio fan can take some solace in knowing that next year things will be very different when you look down that bench.
by WildYams on May 28, 2008 3:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen
Just think about how other coaches/organizations would react in the Spurs’ present position… Consider no further than how Phil Jackson conducted his mid-game interview with Craig “The Journalistic Hitman” Sager.
Byron Scott and Mike Brown, possibly Jerry Sloan. Who else in the NBA would take it in such stride? Few, if any.
by schwazz on May 28, 2008 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, WY, especially for not writing the Spurs off just yet: we don’t need obituaries, right now.
The Spurs ar going to be different, next year, some of the older players won’t be playing anymore, and some younger blood will be injected in the roster during the offseason. Will they be better? Will they have someone capable of scoring, outside Timmy, Manu and TP? I don’t know, but I don’t see how their supporting cast could get any worse.
But, RIGHT NOW, we have at least another game, two days from now, and regardless of the result, I want to see the Spurs play their best basketball on thursday. I want to see them try harder, don’t make unforced mistakes, rebound and hustle, and I want to see Manu throw his body towards the basket over and over again.
Have the Spurs come back from a 3-1 series hole before? Yes. Can they do it now, against this Lakers team? Of course they “can”: game 1 and 4 were damn close, after all, and the Spurs won in a blowout on Sunday so, even if the Lakers have been generally better so far, it’s not like the Spurs have no chance whatsoever of going back to SA for a game 6.
It might be “hope”, rather than “confidence”, but I’m still not ready to give up. Not by a long shot.
Form is emptiness
by Kalkin on May 28, 2008 4:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
momentum
I can’t believe we were even that close. The last 40 seconds were crazy. I was literally about to turn the TV off to avoid nausea when things started to turn.
I cannot agree more with the article above – we have NOTHING to complain about. In fact, the non-call that was MOST damaging all day was Jordan Farmar’s awful travel before he passed the ball to Sasha Vujacic for his 4-point play. Farmar jumps into the air, and clearly landed BEFORE passing the ball. I was steamed about that one for quite a long time, but we had so many chances to turn it around, I can’t fault the refs. Crappy game.
by bugbomb on May 28, 2008 7:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
“It’s time to say goodbye”? WTF?
I agree with most of the post, but we really don’t need this attitude facing 3 elimination games. I plan to stay positive somehow until the announcer says we lost this effing series, or we’re 20 points down with 3 minutes to go.
Spurs blogs should be the one place where people aren’t trying to “keep it real”.
by LatinD on May 28, 2008 7:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
hahaha so right LD. Sure we didn’t deserve to win this game but let’s be all realistic after going down 3 to 1? Come on! I’m a fan dammit. Though we are not raving lunatic homers like other fanbases (suns? celtics?) I’m still a fan, always hoping for our boys to accomplish the impossible.
Spurs in 7 baby!! =)
by hak518 on May 28, 2008 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing. It’s classy and the laker fans appreciate it, but we’re not dead yet (well, except for Robert) and REAL champions don’t cash it in when they’re down. We came back in the hornets series; anything’s possible. So many here want to be the first to get credit when “they predicted the SPURS loss,” and I just don’t buy into that thinking. I’m a fan and I’m always believing.
Together, LatinD and I will combine our positive energy and mojo to produce an unstoppable force in black on Thursday. And on Friday morning, we promise to save your seats on the bandwagon and allow you back on without ridicule.
by SgtinManusArmy on May 28, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm right there with you.
Saying “It’s time to say goodbye” is horse shit. We are the defending champions and last time I checked, we’re still in this thing. I can’t stand this defeatist attitude. This series is going seven game, you just don’t know it yet.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on May 28, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am also a fan, but I do not always believe. The Spurs are not my religion. I do not believe when the preponderance of the evidence is to the contrary. I’m not saying a comeback is impossible. But, as a rational person, I think it’s highly, highly unlikely.
I do not begrudge you your hope or your belief. Juju your mojo to your heart’s content. But to claim I’m a bandwagon fan b/c I don’t think we have a realistic shot is insulting.
by sungo on May 28, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“It’s time to say goodbye” just doesn’t convey much hope to me on your part. And that’s okay, but don’t expect me to not have a problem with it and similar comments by others all over the blog. There’s a sizeable difference in my mind between ‘hope’ and ‘realization driven by belief.’ I just don’t want to see you, in an effort to be unarguably objective, abandon any personal hope in your favorite team. Even though I tend to bow at the alter of the Manu, at my core, I’m a rational realist as well. I understand the odds and recognize the challenge. But I’m definately not about to give up or lose hope, as I pray that the team is also avoiding doing. We can do this and my devotion to this team prevents me from abandoning belief that they’re capable of pulling it out. Realistically, it’s not probable. But I’m going down with the ship, regardless of probability.
And I didn’t mean to insult you specifically. I was speaking towards the collective “you,” and not directly at yMatthew Powell. I don’t consider you (Matthew Powell) a bandwagon SPURS fan, or I wouldn’t be here. If you or any other frequent contributors were, this site would not have the following it does.
Now, back to jujuing my mojo for Game 5. One day I’ll make you a believer in the jumojujo.
by SgtinManusArmy on May 28, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*gasp*
do not speak his name! it is unspeakable!
i had to go to sleep right after the game. i didn’t want any ideas to fester in my mind and become beliefs of tomorrow. instead i replayed the hot girl walking across the crowded bar over and over in my mind and woke up happy and productive at work today.
i may not fully believe we can pull it off but i do hope. and i stuff the bad thoughts down to the bottom only until its actually happened.
who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder? there are some who call me ... tim.
by ptruser on May 28, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is realistic?
I read somewhere that about 5% of teams come back from being down 3-1. Since that figure includes series wherein one of the teams is overmatched, I’d have to think the Spurs would have a better shot than that. If you estimated that they had a 10% chance, would that be realistic?
Another way to look at it is through the cumulative probabilities. If you were to guess that the Spurs had, say, a 33% chance of winning game 5, then a 66% chance of winning game 6 at home, then a 50% chance of winning game 7 (the odds go up since the Lakers would be on their heels and the Spurs would have the momentum), that works out to about a 10% (.33 * .66 * .5) chance that they could pull it out. The numbers would work out similarly if you believe they have a 50-50 shot at each game.
I for one don’t feel like the Spurs have been outplayed by any significant margin in this series. We’ve had two blowouts and two tossup games. Unfortunately, our guys dropped both of the tossups, but sometimes you flip a coin and it comes up tails twice in a row.
10% is high enough for me to keep believing until TNT runs a graphic of Tim, Manu, and Tony, with Charles Barkley’s head superimposed on a fat white guy, all on a fishing boat. Until then, Go Spurs Go!
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
by tomasito on May 28, 2008 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot Finley SiMA
Horry may be the walking dead, but Finley is like, Imhotep. He rises up and looks powerful for about 1 game, then goes back to sleep for 10.
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
by Nixiack on May 29, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Imhotep?
Geez even I had to Google that one….....lol
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you guys
We may all be delusional, but I seem to remember coming back from a 1 – 3 deficit against a prime Dallas Maverick team.
It’s over when it’s over and not before then. We all know that we’ve been spoiled as fans by supporting this team. We’re used to a certain calibar of performance and character. I’ve yet to be dissapointed in that regard.
Whether we win this series or not my feelings for this team and it’s players (for the most part) will not change.
I’m a Spurs fan til the end. And after that… I think I’ll be rooting for Argentina at the Olympics!
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
by bellasa on May 28, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kind of off-topic, but....
Brent Barry might have had the quote of the playoffs. When told he had his most amazing playoff performance of the year in Game 4, Barry said, “It’s like putting whipped cream on shit.”
lmao this guy has to replace his brother as commentator when he retires
by Snoopy2006 on May 28, 2008 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why I love Bones….
You gotta post that link, or find that audio. That’s pure awesome and should go in our quotes hall of fame.
by SgtinManusArmy on May 28, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s at the bottom of Steon’s article here
I can post the whole thing if you have problems opening it.
Allez Spurs!
by JustinBK on May 28, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got it, thanks. That’s great!!
by SgtinManusArmy on May 28, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha…That’s gold. Bones is going to make a great commentator if he decides to.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 28, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fell out of my chair ...
I literally burst out luaghing in the office when I read that quote on ESPN. That is funny stuff.
I reserve the right to change my mind if there is a game 6 or, Lord forbid, a game 7 but today I think I have a man crush on Brent Barry.
by Lakers in 5 on May 28, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good article
Insightful, witty and also funny at times (in the midst).
(I guess I just didn’t get your previous satire article on game 3, but this one was good)
by x10dude on May 28, 2008 11:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
meant to say funny in the midst of pain. (the “quicker to…” in the beginning was classic)
Spurs are still the champs until someone dethrones them. I’m surprised Spurs fans are already throwing in the towel. Of all places, I’d think this forum would be still have to confidence in their team.
by x10dude on May 28, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said Matt. The reliance on Finley and Horry is beyond vexing. What the hell has Popovich been watching this season? Oh well, I don’t want to sound like a spoiled fan because it’s just a game.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 28, 2008 12:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
welp, if the spurs can do the amazing, each game will be a “last shot” attempt to get to the finals. anything can happen right? right?
yeah, the spurs are boss
by moognish on May 28, 2008 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
May the best man win
I normally post on the LA Times Lakers blog and have kept myself from posting because I figured trash talk would only bring us bad energy which is never good, and then this morning it hit me like a ton of bricks, I don’t have any bad things to say about the Spurs. Oh sure I hate you guys (especially when you beat us) but that’s only temporary hate, I hate your team when we play them because they are the enemy but once the game is over I see the Spurs for what they are, champions, and a very dangerous team that you don’t mess with and you never, ever make the mistake of dismissing them. I have great respect for what the Spurs have done in the last few years, you have a great veteran team and it’s always fun (not to mention nerve wrecking) to have our Lakers play them. I am just amazed at the way you guys are dealing with last night’s loss, but as someone else mentioned, you have a classy team and it’s not surprising to see you handle this situation with grace and dignity. We will see you for game five and may the best man win. Please god, let the Lakers be the best man
by Elle28 on May 28, 2008 12:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone else starting to feel really….dirty, with all of these laker compliments and appreciation? Don’t get me wrong, I value a classy fan’s feedback (what we see here- avoiding ridicule/gloating and showing sportsmanship) but this is starting to feel really weird. Let’s save all the “SPURS are so cool” talk until after we win or lose, mmmkay? It’s not over. We might just still beat you, and I don’t need all this love clouding my focus on hating you and your team.
by SgtinManusArmy on May 28, 2008 1:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don’t worry SiMA, the compliments will stop when we even the series.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on May 28, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only reason the lakers will be complimenting you after the next game is if we beat you. So just hope we don’t come here to congratulate you for a good series until a 7th game (if you guys make it that far).
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.
by ldeep on May 28, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SiMA, Let me help you feel clean
I, for one, appreciate the sincere Laker fan comments on our site because I have seen the really obnoxious, ugly side of Lakers fans up close and personal.
Three of the most foul-mouthed, disgusting, idiotic fans ever spawned from the bowels of hell were sitting on the 3rd row opposite our home bench at last night’s game. (They also had some help from another fiend sitting on the front row). They were all being incredibly insulting from their arrival until long after the game was finished.
Unfortunately, they were also sitting directly behind David Robinson’s 2nd row seats. Although I was not nearly close enough to berate them or punch them in the face … among the thoughts that crossed my mind as I watched their ignorant display… Mr. Robinson handled the situation with class and grace. He merely turned the other cheek and ignored them.
Now, don’t get me wrong… if I was within striking range, I still would have tried to throw a chancla at them. :-)
Spurs in 7… I Believe.
I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili
by bellasa on May 28, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barkley and The Foul
Did anyone catch Barkley’s analysis of the foul after the game? It was a foul but the ref didn’t call it because the Lakers had outplayed the Spurs for most of the game and, had he called that foul, that would have decided the game. As if a game cannot be decided by a ref NOT calling a foul. What a damn fool.
by agutierrez on May 28, 2008 2:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that’s a pretty inane comment on his part, but that’s who he is. It was a foul, but the game shouldn’t have even come to that. Rebounding was the difference last night. When Horry let that rebound roll off his leg, that was a microscosm of the night.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 28, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More moving?
If I remember correctly, didn’t you move last year about this time? Where to now?
Allez Spurs!
by JustinBK on May 28, 2008 3:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I just got here ~10 months ago. I had to move closer to campus.
by sungo on May 28, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tiago
Read in Marca (and ESPN’s Truehoop linked as well) that Tiago is trying to stay in Spain and cut with the Spurs. http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/baloncesto/acb/es/desarrollo/1128541.html
That is sad , and it would be the 2nd case in a row.
by raft on May 28, 2008 4:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or check the FANPOST section on the right side of the screen for an ongoing discussion of the Splitter topic.
Allez Spurs!
by JustinBK on May 28, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
I just threw in my mouth a little. I hadn’t really paid attention to the stats this postseason, but Robert Horry is shooting 19.4%!!!!! this postseason, and yet he is still in the rotation’s top 8. Yikes!!!
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 28, 2008 5:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And sadly that stat is skewed upwards by Horry’s 30% shooting in round one and 23.5% shooting in round 2. For round three his FG% is an outstanding 0.0%. Yep, Horry has yet to hit a field goal 4 games into the WCF and he has been averaging 13.3 minutes per game. I think Pop is catching on slowly though. He only played 5 minutes last night.
To think that Horry is now saying that he wants to play a couple more years. I really hope Pop isn’t suckered into keeping him on the team for the veteran’s minimum.
by VWolf on May 28, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right you are. That was game 1 where he only played 5. I read the wrong line. I guess Pop isn’t learning much as this series goes on.
by VWolf on May 28, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surely you jest....
Horry can not be serious about playing another season or two. He’s actually retired now, but I don’t think he realizes it yet. Anytime you have a 3 on 2 and you turn down an open layup, that should let you know it’s time to give it up.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 28, 2008 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, he said today in the Express News that he wasn’t blaming his horrible shooting on his hurt knee (has been having to have it drained before games) and that he would like to play for two more years because he is still having fun. Both of those statements were amazing to me, but the latter one packs a huge wallop. Could Pop be stubborn enough to let Horry play for the Spurs for a couple more years? And aren’t you glad that Horry is still having fun out there? That’s what it’s all about. It’s just like a big rec league. As long as the players are having fun, then the fans will be satisfied.
by VWolf on May 28, 2008 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There have been many excellent post this season about how Pop has gone with old guys to avoid having to deal with the headache of bringing along younger players. He plans to ride Timmeh until his tank is dry and then retire. Pop can be and has been a great coach, but this is a shit bag move. What a selfish bastard. The way he took this season off has been disgraceful. I couldn’t believe all the coaching he was doing last night, picking the guys up, taking strategic time outs. Where in the living fuck has that been?
His Lombardi like obsession with playing defense and collecting rebounds has been replaced by his new obsession of dealing with older players and avoiding hassles. Stomach turning. Why don’t we have a Stucky or Brandon Bass? Where are all the great foreign players we were getting for a while? Has the scouting department been shut down?
I know I am not the only one who remembers when no player dare go down the center of the lane on the Spurs. Pop would call an immediate time out and rip somebody’s ass. Now, it is no big deal to have some chump dribble right down the paint and shoot a layup. Remember when we had athleticism and height? Anyone notice how Timmeh has begun to struggle with wicked double teams because we don’t have that second big guy? Somebody has to answer for these holes. I know I am not the only one who saw them at the start of the season. When Tony goes out of the game, the whole game changes. JV and Stoudamire fire up the opponents because they know they can take these midgets to school. They are like energy boosters for the Lakers.
Spurs leadership has been the model of a dynasty and the greatest of the great. Key word is “has been”. They way they have handled the game and the players this last season is unacceptable. Talk about going through the motions. This is Rudy T all over again. We don’t need a repeat of the Rockets demise. Member when they brought in Barkley and he looked like bowl of warm dog shit? All the while, Rudy T kept screaming, “We got the heart of a champion!” I do not want to see the Spurs doing that. I swear, if they bring in some old coot like Grant Hill, I am going to blow my brains out.
One more change needs to be made for next season….firing Joey Crawford and banning him for life. He needs the Pete Rose treatment.
Joey Crawford is a pig. He is a half aborted fetus that lived. He is an enemy of Pops, he is an enemy of Tim Duncan and he is an enemy of the Spurs. When he officiates a Spur game, the Spurs have an extra opponent on the floor. He is crooked. He is an egomaniac..he is a meglomaniac. He is a hermaphodite who compensates for his minature balls by bullying players and coaches. His skin is like an alien egg sack. His voice is like a cheese grate covered with cut glass. His mind has developed a leak and needs to be shut down. Beating him with a baseball bat would improve his looks. He should be sent to Iraq to serve as a camel fluffer. Joey Crawford is a failed experiment of putting together a human and a squid. Ban him for life.
by Clintons Cigar on May 28, 2008 5:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CC, you are so right about some changes needed to be made. Surely the Spurs won’t go with a roster filled with corpses next season, right? I mean Finley had a +/- of -18 in only 9 minutes last night!!! How in the hell is that possible?
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 28, 2008 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce Bowen
I just want to give it up for the best perimeter defender in the National Basketball Association, Mr. Bruce Bowen. He’s been draining shots this series (he even hit a runner last night, a small miracle) and playing fantastic defense on the Colorado Casanova. Maybe the ref stuff was haywire last night but Kobe went to the line 0 times last night. That has to be a record. Somewhere. Round of applause for Mr. Bowen.
Allez Spurs!
by JustinBK on May 28, 2008 6:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great point—Bowen has been great this series (and this playoffs, really). Even by his own fans, I fell he is often underappreciated.
Now let’s just hope Bowen can keep up the good work for another 7-10 games this season, haha
by jkalb on May 28, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think there’s anything unbecoming about decrying the no-call when the game had worked out to come down to that final possession. The Fisher shot-clock play started out with a Kobe traveling no-call. And the goal-tend made up for Lamar Odom being given free throws for shoving Tim in the back on a rebound Tim was securing when we were within 4 with less than 3 mins to play. Everything balanced out and the game boiled down to a final possession in which we earned the right to shoot free throws to tie the game and let it be decided in OT. As for Kobe shooting zero free throws, he only had 7 attempts in the paint for the game, a few of which were uncontested.
I just think it’s amazing how despite how terrible we’ve played in this series, Game 1 and Game 4 could’ve gone our way and nobody would be talking about the demise of the defending champs.
by Pendejo Joe on May 28, 2008 7:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this is the fickle world of sports. its where old and slow could have just as easily turned into wise and experienced.
by bones on May 29, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are Bad Calls and then There are Bad Calls
I agree with P Joe (you’re certainly no pendejo, Joe). Everyone seems to take the position that we didn’t deserve to win the game. WTF. Then how the hell is it that we were right there at the end? Obviously, we did something right to be within a basket of a tie or win. Why not focus on the grit it took to hang in there inspite of a horrible night for Gino and all those kind bounces the Lakers got (yes, I know, some of those were the result of hustle, but some were just because the ball bounced a certain way, sometimes they bounce our way too). And it’s one thing to miss a call when the ball barely hits the rim and the ref is at an angle that it’s hard to tell, another to miss a goaltend when you’re trying to keep from getting run over. But when right in front of you, with no peripheral players or action to draw your eye away, when a foul that blatant happens, to miss the call is just pathetic. Of course, there were lots of factors that explain the loss. There always are. But to miss that call and have such a critical game, and perhaps a series, decided by a shit call like that, is inexcusable. And as PJoe says, what Games 1 and 4 show is that we’re really even with the Lakers. And we’re not dead yet. Viva Zapata! I prefer that to the Alamo.
by agutierrez on May 28, 2008 8:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And unlike Matthew, I think that play really was a goaltend. He said the of the call, “It looked correct at game speed, but the repla(y) clearly showed he got the ball before it hit the rim.” In real time, I had no idea if it was a good call or not, but the replay seemed to show the ball hit the glass right before it was blocked. It was close, but I think the call was right. And I’m not sure if Matthew meant to say “backboard” or if he actually meant to say “rim” in that statement.
by Gino20 on May 29, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume you are just blind and not delusional, but trust me it wasn’t even close. He hit it about 3-4 inches before it hit the backboard.
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here is a life lesson to anyone who will listen
(BTW 20/20 and no delusions)
When an argument becomes a back and forth “did not/did too” or “is not/is too,” nothing will be solved, so you might as well end the argument.
In other words, when you have an argument that is a matter of opinion and/or bias, and 2 people have differing opinions or points of view, nothing will be solved.
by Gino20 on May 29, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A voice of reason.
Thank you.
Allez Spurs!
by JustinBK on May 29, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreeing to disagree is a very civil thing to do sometimes.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 29, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy to do when one of you is WRONG!!!!!
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice save..........
There is honor in the occasional “my bad”.
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matter of opinion????
I guess video replay doesn’t work anymore. So using that logic the “foul” on Fisher is also a matter of opinion????
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pistons ?
Out of curiosity, who guards Kobe when the Pistons play the Lakers?
Pistons look real solid in Boston tonight and their young guys are playing great.
Allez Spurs!
by JustinBK on May 28, 2008 8:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
why in the eff does that happen? I don’t get it.
Allez Spurs!
by JustinBK on May 28, 2008 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tayshaun Prince. He dominated Kobe in the 2004 Finals. Kobe shot well below 50% and just couldn’t get an open look.
People thought Prince would shut Manu down the same way in the 2005 Finals, but obviously he didn’t. For whatever reason, Prince matches up great with Kobe.
I think the Pistons would have a good shot at beating the Lakers. Boston, not so much. Hopefully neither of them get a shot at the Lakers, though!
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
by tomasito on May 28, 2008 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the team usa game kobe took care of prince but if kobe can do a good job on bowen he can do it against prince (and theres duncan so gasol can have good games then).
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.
by ldeep on May 28, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prince has done well on him in the past.
by VWolf on May 28, 2008 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whats up spurs fans
seems like you guys dont like even number years
by #1lakerfan on May 28, 2008 11:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And I think one very important thing needs to be said for posterity
Brent Barry shouldn’t be blamed for not jumping to make the contact appear worse than it was. All the “experts” that say he should’ve done that are the same ones who would say he was looking to be bailed out if he had done that and they hadn’t given him the call anyway, which is most likely what would’ve happened since it would’ve looked like Barry initiated contact. He did the right thing and tried to make a play despite the contact, without putting the onus on the officials to make any call that would affect the integrity of the game.
It’s ridiculous for anyone to say Barry needed to do anything more than what he did to get that call, and it should be remembered that way.
by Pendejo Joe on May 29, 2008 2:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
P Joe
regarding the Barry play… I absolutely agree with the experts—Kobe, Tim Duncan, Ginobli, Reggie Miller, Michael Jordan, etc. would have all just jumped right through derek fishers horrible over play. And the refs would have had to call the foul. He did not put the pressure on the refs to make the foul call, rather he put the pressure on himself to make a sick shot.
Now, was it a foul? YES of course. But a million foul calls are questionable - this one just happens to be at the end of the game. And like the OP posted - look at at all the calls that went the Spurs way—generally things even out.
Unlike a lot of other fans, I absolutely fear the Spurs (not the celts or pistons—although celts have homecourt which is a big deal). I don’t fear them now, b/c well, we have a 3-1 lead and home court and I just think it’s too much to expect the Spurs to take the next 3, although losing game 5 would be a disaster.
As far as the guy who said that Kobe was completely handled by Prince in 04 - Kobe’s a completely different player now, and I don’t think either the Pistons or Celts can handle the Lakers offense, bench, and athleticism. That 04 team had an aging Shaq and two completely useless over the hill hall of famers and Kobe - and even with that—Malone had been healthy enough for the lakers to have a PF in that series it would’ve been completely different.
by lalalakers on May 29, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, calls are missed during a given game. However, when you have a final, game-deciding play such as happened in game 4, and a player [such as Barry] is clearly fouled in such a way that it prevents him from properly getting off his shot, then the whistle has to be blown. Why should the fouling team gain an advantage in that situation?
by 4Him on May 29, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This foul call was not questionable. See the association’s response.
by VWolf on May 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should just say the foul, not the foul call.
by VWolf on May 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn’t questionable mean “worthy of questioning”. Which we are all doing now.
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The call was questionable. The foul was not. Are you really questioning whether or not there was a foul? If you watch the video such a question would seem disingenuous or idiotic.
by VWolf on May 29, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you really going to follow me around all day?
Have I ever, even once, said the play was not a foul? That would be stupid. Of course it was a foul. Just like of course Tim traveled, Odom blocked, and Fisher hit the rim.
If you are going to make the case that a foul is a foul in the 1st quarter or the last 2.1 seconds. Then you have to make the same case that a bad call at 2.1 affects the game as much as one at any other point in the game.
The fact of the matter is if this happened at the end of the 3rd quarter, NO ONE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT IT, even you.
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am following you around? My isn’t your head big. You are here on a Spurs blog, responding to my post.
Of course no one would be talking about a blown call in the middle of the game, unless it was one that fouled a player out or let a player who should have fouled out keep playing. The fact that it happened on the Spurs final possession, when they were down by two makes the no-call kind of important. It was the LAST CHANCE THE SPURS HAD TO WIN THE GAME AND IT WAS TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM. If it had happened earlier, there would have been chances to make up for that bad call.
I am not going to say that is the single reason the Spurs lost (they played horribly all night). I am just not going to pretend that the foul was questionable. It was clearly a foul, and it clearly should have been called. And when I read people saying it was a judgement call, or that it was questionable I question the sanity/bias/intelligence of those people.
by VWolf on May 29, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A completely different player?
I was just responding to a previous question as to who on the Pistons would draw Kobe. I think we agree that Prince handled Kobe in the 2004 Finals. That doesn’t necessarily mean that he will do so again. I think it’s likely Prince defends him well, but some games Kobe gets his, just like with Bruce.
Shaq was aging, sure, but if you could swap Gasol for 2004 Shaq right now (for the rest of the playoffs), wouldn’t you do it? That is, assuming Kobe and Shaq didn’t hate each other. I do agree that losing Malone was a killer against the Wallaces, though. I’m not sure that Fisher is any better than Payton was, either. Your bench is definitely better now; Luke Walton, as I recall, was your best sub in that series.
As for your other point, how is Kobe completely different? I would say that maybe Zydrunas Ilgauskas is “completely different” than Kobe, but today’s Kobe seems like a slightly more team-oriented, slightly less athletic version of the 2004 Kobe.
Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!
by tomasito on May 29, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if Kobe is that different, but I would say his role is different. To put it another way I think the way he uses his talent is much different on this team than the one in ‘04.
On another note I just love how you guys are discussing the impending Lakers/Pistons finals…
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same could be said of this years' Spurs lalalakers
As in …. Parker is a different player, Duncan is too, and even with that—Ginobili had been healthy enough for the Spurs to have thier SG on full tilt, the series would have been completely different :p
But I digress :p
"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.
The "I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull! You f***ed with the wrong Marine!" face. Because Popovich can be kinda scary.
by Nixiack on May 29, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing.....
Assuming the Spurs don’t make an insane comeback, what does SA do to retool next year? You guys made two fantastic picks with Tony Parker and Ginobli (not in the lottery), but where do you go from here? Do you guys think it is all downhill with the anchor of your team aging? Or do you think you have a couple years of being feared and respected?
by lalalakers on May 29, 2008 9:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
NBA admits it was a foul
This probably makes Spur fans even more furious…
It could easily be 3-1 in favor of the Spurs…
by x10dude on May 29, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wow.... interesting response
4HIM,
was it a foul YES?
would he have made 2 FTs? WHO KNOWS!
Did you see the GAME DECIDING PLAY/CALL that was BLOWN in favor of the SPURS 1 second before Barry’s play? The ball OBVIOUSLY hit the RIM. 4HIm and VWolf - Did you notice this play - that made the Brent Barry play POSSIBLE?
I will humor you, if in the last 5 seconds, they offered instant replay to get plays like the one you are complaining about correct.. guess what - (assuming everyone makes FTs) - Lakers up 4 with 4-5 second left. GL to the Spurs winning under those circumstances.
Personally, as a Laker fan, if the Lakers lost the game, I NEVER EVER would’ve blamed the referee for blowing THAT Game deciding play. I would’ve blamed KOBE Bryant and Pau Gasol for absolutely BLOWING IT on back to back possessions.
Blaming the referees (with the one exception being gambling ref) - is always a poor excuse. It is the reason I so respect Popovich, Ginobli, Duncan, AND the writer of this blog - who although would’ve obviously loved for the foul to be called as much as all the Spurs fans, would not sink to the level of blaming the refs for the loss.
by lalalakers on May 29, 2008 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I did see that, but I don’t think that was as egregious a miss.
The Spurs lost the game due to a multitude of reasons, but Crawford should have whistled Fisher for a foul. That is true and if you don’t believe me ask the association.
by VWolf on May 29, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do I think this is the first time you have agreed with “the association”.
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do I think this is the first time you’ve disagreed with the association?
by VWolf on May 29, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, Laker fans just love Mr. Suspendkobefornothingtwice (otherwise known as Stu Jackson).
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean for hitting guys in the face.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 29, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike kicking them in the face (see: Wally Szczerbiak)
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it was only one kick! Wasn’t Kobe’s serial hitting?
Also, that doesn’t mean “hitting in the face” is nothing.
Btw, do you guys remember Tim getting suspended for a game a couple years ago when after a jumpball he put his hands on the ref to move him out of the way as he tried to make a play. I always thought that was a weird suspension. It REALLY makes me wonder why Garnett didn’t get suspended for his to-do with the refs in the Atlanta series. It wasn’t as if Tim had a history of man-handling the refs up to that point.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 29, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“But it was only one kick!” Seriously that is your answer. “Kobe serial hitting”? What does that mean? It happened twice. There wasn’t even a foul called on the play. And please do not compare Kobe to “the serial dirty player” Bowen. It is not even close…...
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My recollection, and it could be wrong, is that Kobe was warned. And then suspended. The “wasn’t even a foul called” is really irrelevant.
Karl Malone got suspended for knocking David Robinson out with an elbow. A foul was actually called on Robinson.
Also, it wasn’t me that brought up the comparison. You need to stick to your facts and not throw out red herrings. You initially said that Kobe got suspended for nothing. As I recall, he got suspended for hitting somebody in the face. You then brought up Bowen, I guess to say that if Bowen didn’t get suspended then Kobe shouldn’t have. I’m not really sure why Bowen came up. Are you saying that Bowen should have been suspended? Are you saying that he shouldn’t be suspended? Are you saying the league isn’t consistent? If so, then say those things. Just don’t say that Kobe didn’t do anything. He, on more than one occasion, hit guys in the face. I think he even broke the nose of a player, maybe a Raptor.
Thirdly, the “only one kick” was a supposed to be a joke. Yeah, kicking guys in the head would be right out. Although kicking them in the back during a dead ball is a $10,000 fine.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 29, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Massive points to ATS for identifying the ‘Red Herring tactic’ that ps so depends on.
ATS- “What do you think about Kobe’s face hitting?”
ps- “I love trans fat, why do you think it’s so unhealthy?”
ATS- “Wait. What? Answer the original statement!”
ps- “You answer first.”
(and SiMA put a gun to his own head)
by SgtinManusArmy on May 29, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It clogs up your arteries….Or so I have been told.
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SiMA, you missed,
Then ignore said post that asks you your point again. A Crassic maneuver. Bob and Weave, Bob and Weave.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 29, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get your facts straight...
I “originally” responded to the “I agree with the association” premise. Then I called Stu Jackson “Mr. Suspendkobefornothing. And no he wasn’t warned.
Horrible use of the term “red herring” by the way. Look it up.
Why would I bring up Bruce Bowen in a discussion about injuring other athletes? That might be the dumbest question ever…..........
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And for the record I was commenting on whether or not Lakers agree with the “association”.
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean the Lakers who Stern would love to see playing in the Finals against themselves?
by 4Him on May 29, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
VWOLF....
of course i agree with u it was a foul… as i said.. it was a foul!
but… missed calls go both ways… i think when a shot clock is running down…it is pretty obvious the shot hit the rim. Foul calls can be subjective at times..it’s not subjective whether or not the ball hits the rim. it either does or does not.
But again, if the lakers lost—blame goes to Gasol and Bryant for blwoing FTs and rushing a possession Kobe had no reason to rush.
Imo, Spurs lose b/c lack of bench depth (despite huge game from Barry), clearly ailing Ginobli - and of course..I’d like to give some credit to my own team… being younger , more talented overall (deep energy bench), and having some experience - kobe, fisher, and Pjackson to help carry us. And obviously adding Gasol (not a top notch #1 option - but a top notch #2 - and pushing odom - not a top notch #2 player - but a great #3 player)
by lalalakers on May 29, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is much easier to miss a ball hitting the rim, than it would have been to miss that foul on Barry, especially given that Crawford was looking right at them.
by VWolf on May 29, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
vwolf
Let’s get your argument straight…
It’s not about equity in your opinion. the (shot clock non-reset) call that benefited the spurs was definitively (100%) blown and also a non-subjective call, is “OK” b/c it is not OBVIOUS—although via replay it is 100% definitive that it was the wrong call.
On the other hand, the non foul call that are complaining about is a part of the rules that is and always has been very subjective. It’s never about whether or not there was is contact, or who exactly initiated contact—it’s always up to the discretion of the refs. Of course, I think it was a foul on fisher, but foul calls are often questionable. Seems kind of lame to complain about it. Also seems lame to complain about refs in general.
Do you think that Tim Duncan has not enjoyed the benefit of the officials many times over the years? Same goes for the Laker fan—for Kobe, Shaq, etc.
by lalalakers on May 29, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument is that the refs, especially the senior official Crawford, did not call a foul when a foul clearly took place. This foul, had it been called, could easily have been game changing, and since there was no more time left, it meant there was no time for the Spurs to play through that and not worry about it (as they could do with countless other poor calls in any game on any given day). I am not complaining about it. I am just countering the notion that this foul was in any way questionable. It was a clear foul.
As for the missed shot-clock reset. That seems like something that was much easier to make a mistake on, and it was not a reviewable play. A ball slightly grazing the rim does not compare to a human body flailing into another human body in terms of obviousness.
I realize Laker fans are probably very tired about hearing about the refs because it is a common theme when the Lakers are in the playoffs. I am sure you think it is lame. Regardless, I am not going to discount reality and pretend the missed foul at the end of game 4 was not an egregious mistake by the officials and chief Spur-hater, Joey Crawford.
As for the superstar calls, I hate those. I believe I already mentioned that.
by VWolf on May 29, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please
you’re telling me that you saw the ball graze the rim? You must have Superman-type vision, b/c for most people that missed call was only apparent in super-slow-motion. It is certainly understandable that the refs might miss THAT call.
But jumping and practically sitting on someone’s head? Surely one wouldn’t need instant replay to make THAT call.
Barry most likely would have canned the free throws. The Lakers had been choking the game away at the end and the Spurs had the all the momentum going into a possible overtime. The blown call would have made a huge difference. The series most likely would now be at 2-2.
But it stands at 3-1. And we move on…
by 4Him on May 29, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t sound like you have “moved on”.
by pslakerfan on May 29, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I have
The clock can’t be turned back now. But that doesn’t mean that we as fans can’t talk about the “coulda been-shoulda been” of a given situation/game. And I was seeking to give lala man a different perspective.
by 4Him on May 29, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe it's poetic justice
somehow this discussion reminds me of last year’s playoffs when Horry literally body-checked S. Nash into the scorers table… At the time, Sun fans were decrying how unfair the ruling was and how the series “should of/ could of” been if it had been a different ruling. (in fact, I think they are still talking about it in Phoenix”
Not saying, that you don’t have any right in is saying the ruling was wrong… but it just is once again a reminder of how Basketball is (as sports in general)...
Some years you are on one side of “bad calls or ruling” ... the next year you are on the other side. For Spur fans, you should know that “every other year” rule for your team.
Two years before that, remember the Fisher 0.4 shot??? That wasn’t a bad call but it was incredible lucky… and that really was the shot that determined the series.
by x10dude on May 29, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Powell on Pop....
I don’t think you can really blame Pop here… I mean honestly, what choices does he have/ The Spurs big 3 are great (ginobli isn’t playing great) and the reserves are all very very limited in ability… they are all very one dimensional…
I think popovich is a GREAT coach..i just don’t think he has any choices.. you think he’d be playing Horry, if there was another choice? When i was discussing this potential series with a friend, the reason i thought the lakers would win is basically that the lakers bench would outperform the spurs bench—keeping the starters fresher and the odom vs horry/oberto matchup
by lalalakers on May 29, 2008 1:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You can too blame Pop. He’s a great coach, but he’s fucking up. Horry does not need to play ever again in the NBA. He hasn’t made a shot this series, he’s shooting 19% from the field in the playoffs, he shoot 31% for the regular season. He has no business playing. None. Give Kurt Thomas more minutes, let Bonner get some minutes, shorten the bench, but Goddamn it stop playing Robert Horry. He’s also relying on Finley too much.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 29, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Pop doesn’t mix it up tonight and sticks with Horry then we’ll lose. Period.
Allez Spurs!
by JustinBK on May 29, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pop
who do you want him to play at the 4?
by lalalakers on May 29, 2008 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The 4 and 5 spots should be manned mainly by Duncan, Thomas, Oberto
the other options are Horry and Bonner. Super Bon-Bon won’t play (maybe in a blowout), and RoHo should only get spot minutes in certain situations
by Gino20 on May 29, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody but Horry....
See this isn’t just an issue this series. True Spur fans knew Horry wouldn’t have anything left in the tank after last season, but the Spurs didn’t for some reason. To make matters worse they traded Scola to the Rockets, which didn’t hurt as bad as it could have this season, but that will eventually bite this franchise in their collective keisters.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 29, 2008 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gino
i think the problem with using thomas and oberto , is that if they play… odom clogs the lane with gasol, and it makes it impossible on parker and ginobli to get in the lane… IMO.
otherwise…clearly thomas is better than horry at this pt.
by lalalakers on May 29, 2008 5:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think your point would have been valid two years ago, but right now Horry is so bad offensively that Oberto is more of a threat. Yeah, I said it. Horry makes Fab look like an offensive tidal wave.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 29, 2008 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’re right to say Oberto and Thomas are not the greatest guys to have out there at the 4 or 5. And clearly they are not half as quick as Odom. But as far as clogging the lane goes, they can actually use those guys on to set screens on the perimeter, and Thomas is pretty good at the open J off the pick ‘n roll
by Gino20 on May 29, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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