Well, The _________ Game is Out of the Way...

by Aaronstampler on May 25, 2008 12:52 PM CDT Comment 69 comments

Western Conference Finals Game 2 at Los Angeles: Lakers 101, Spurs 71

There's not going to be much of Game 2 recap today. After a score like 101-71, there really isn't a whole lot to say.

In a nutshell, the main problem is that the Lakers are bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, younger, healthier, deeper, have better shooters, better coaching, and home court advantage. But besides that, the Spurs could totally come back and win this series.

All they need is for the following players to play better; significantly so in most cases:

Tim Duncan

Manu Ginobili

Tony Parker

Fabricio Oberto

Ime Udoka

Brent Barry

Kurt Thomas

These players on the other hand are playing as well as they can, so they just need to keep up doing what they're doing:

Bruce Bowen

Michael Finley

Robert Horry

Jacque Vaughn

"But Stampler," you're saying. "I'm confused," you're saying. "Finley, Horry, and Vaughn have been horrible. Are you some kind of idiot? Have you not been watching? How can you write that those guys are playing well?"

I didn't write that they've been playing well. I wrote that they're playing as well as they can. They in fact stink, but it's not their fault that they're on the floor. When crappy players are put in a position to fail, it's on the coach. No serious team with championship aspirations plays guys like that in a Conference Final, yet here we are. Team Moneyball, basically, except our stars actually have championships and are clutch performers and stuff. And our coach is the guy who thinks he's smarter than everybody, not the GM. We can't afford to pay for ten decent NBA players. In fact, we're paying below the market rate for our second and third best players, guys who on other teams would probably have max deals. Stephon Marbury makes more money than Manu and Tony combined. That says it all, for both us and the Knicks, doesn't it?

Of course, we can still get it done. We can win these next two home games and make it a best of three going back to L.A. Our guys will shoot better in our building. They'll defend harder. Manu will find a way to make an impact, regardless of his battered physical condition. Tony will play with more nerve and confidence. It can happen.

Here's the thing though - I'm good either way. Honestly. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't hate the Lakers, I truly don't. I hate, in order, the Mavs, the Suns, and the Nuggets. I think I've built a healthy disregard for the Hornets, after seeing Chris Paul and David West up close and personal for seven games. They're punks, and Paul is a sneaky thug, very much like Jason Terry. I dislike the Celtics for the way they instantly turned themselves from bums to contenders, thanks to a couple of shady deals. I think they're arrogant as shit and can't believe that they're acting like they've won the whole thing before they have. I've always despised Garnett and think he's overrated.

I don't hate L.A. though.

Oh, I used to, believe me. But 90% of my hatred for them had to do with that 400 lb. tub of goo that's stealing Robert Sarver's money in Phoenix these days. I was always firmly on the Kobester's side in the Shaq-Kobe feud. All Bryant wanted was for Shaq to work out in the offseason, show up ready to go, and not blatantly tank the regular season. I think it drove Bryant nuts that he had to carry the team for large stretches in the regular season and then give way to Shaq in the playoffs, when he finally felt like playing. Cue the Scottie Pippen comparisons that no doubt drove Kobe insane.

Shaq's gone now. So is the ever-annoying Rick Fox. Fucking Horry (a player I loathed back then) plays for us now. The only guy they got left from their glory days that I can't stand is Derek Fisher.

Can I work up the proper hate for Lamar Odom? Probably. Sasha Vujacic and Jordan Farmar? Absolutely. Pau Gasol? I doubt it. I kinda like him. Always have. Ronny Turiaf works hard and has a lot of spirit. Luke Walton's a great glue guy. The only sulky, bad attitude guy in the mix is Andrew Bynum, and he's not around to hate. Phil Jackson might be the world's biggest egomaniac, but he's still an excellent coach, and not nearly as afraid of change or youngsters as Pop.

I don't hate the Lakers and I can't see myself doing so anytime soon. I respect their coach. I like most of their players. They're not dirty. They were built the right way. They play team basketball but at the same time they've got a star who can take over if he has to. When I see their bench, and then I look at our bench, I feel ill.

Anyway, Game 3 is tonight. Either our guys will make this a series or we will witness the very beginning stages of the game's next great team. As good as the Lakers are right now, they could very well be juggernauts in the coming years if Bynum and Gasol can play together. They're gonna win a title, if not this year than in the near future.

The question for our guys is how long can they hold them off?

P.S. Here's the Friday spot with the Steve Mason show. I got a couple of shots in at Kobe that they loved.

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Cheap and Then Some

Good post, as always. A couple of points: 1. On the cheap front - consider that we could well lose this series because our owner was too cheap to charter a decent airline company. The guys work their asses off all year, give their all in a do-or-die game 7 against a very good Hornets team, and then have to sit on the tarmac ‘til 6:30am when they have a key game coming up in less than 48 hours. I have no doubt that the lack of rest was responsible for that first loss, and that first loss could well turn this series upside down at a whole series of levels. What a chump! 2. The Lakers - I’m with you. Don’t hate them anymore. I used to hate Kobe when he thought he was god’s gift to the world and a deep intellectual thinker to boot. Now, he’s just a basketball player. Let’s hope he leaves it at that. At least he gives his props to Bruce and the Spurs, unlike some pricks out there. But, as you said, hope springs eternal. Let’s hope the guys can still dig deep and make a series out of this thing.

by agutierrez on May 25, 2008 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

haha good shots. those were hilarious, i had a feeling kobe’s quote was going to be taken out of context, and when i heard it i was like “BURN!!!”

by the way, what did you say when you were talking about spurs fans donating 4 million to kobe so he doesn’t have to buy his wife …................

he cut you off and i couldn’t hear it.

What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)

the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post

by Hamer_SpursFan on May 25, 2008 1:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

another ring.

by Aaronstampler on May 25, 2008 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is the exact reason I love your writing- you say precisely what I’m feeling and wanting to say, only not in a retarded way.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 25, 2008 3:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I Hate the Lakers

I remember the “rivalry” with them back in the days of Artis Gilmore, Mike Mitchell, Gene Banks, and of course, the Iceman. I put rivalry in quotes because it’s not a rivalry if one team wins every time.

I remember young TD sweeping them out of the playoffs and thinking that we had a budding dynasty. I still think the Spurs would have repeated had Duncan not hurt his knee; people forget now how shaky the first Shaq-Kobe-Phil championship team was. They were even outscored in the Finals, and I think they might have been outscored in the WCF. If the Spurs deny them that first championship and beat them again, who knows what would have happened that next year (when the awesome juggernaut Lakers swept the Spurs).

I remember seeing Kobe and Derek Fisher weeping on the bench in game 6 in 2003 as Timmy annihilated Snaq and Tony Parker came out of nowhere. Aside from a handful of moments (the Memorial Day Miracle, the Robert Horry game, TD’s 3 against Phoenix, Avery’s jumper against the Knicks), that may be my single best memory as a Spurs fan. Again, I thought we had them. HAD THEM.

Then of course, the next year, the 0.4 happened. Seeing them lose in the Finals again brought out my schadenfreude. Then they traded The Big Charging Foul, and I though they were done. Again. And yet here they are once again.

So I respect them and dislike them as the Spurs’ real main rival. Dallas and Phoenix are mere annoyances. But I think Kobe is a terrible person, the kind who might have been a serial killer had he not had such amazing basketball talent. Phil Jackson is a smug jackass, and it makes it even worse that he is such a great coach. Derek Fisher is a ridiculous flopper who doesn’t take half the abuse that Manu does, who’s ten times the player Fish is.

Hate is a strong word to describe a basketball team of individuals that I’ve never met. In this case, though, it’s not strong enough. The Lakers are my Achilles Heel of irrationality. I HATE HATE HATE THEM! With the white hot intensity of a thousand suns (not Suns), I hate them.

Go Spurs.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on May 25, 2008 4:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You may need therapy. It’s OK, lots of people do.

by pslakerfan on May 25, 2008 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't have a problem. I could stop if I wanted to.

I’ve come to terms with my Laker hatred. It doesn’t affect my day-to-day life. You could say I’m a “functional Laker hate-a-holic.”

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on May 25, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

fair enough

by pslakerfan on May 25, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"But I think Kobe is a terrible person, the kind who might have been a serial killer had he not had such amazing basketball talent."

This made me laugh out loud. Good stuff.

by go_lakers on May 25, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen Tomasito

I’m with Tomasito on all of this. I could not have enjoyed the annihilation of the Lakers and the Mailman in the 03-04 finals much more unless I were washing it down with a glass of bacon.

Look, I can admit the Lakers play great ball, that they have great players and that they have a coach who, pompous and smug though he may be, knows how to get the most out of his team. But I can also hate them with every fiber of my being for all of the reasons Tomasito noted above.

Sure Vujacic makes it easy, but his help wasn’t really necessary.

by Foodbag on May 26, 2008 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't like the Lakers because....

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 26, 2008 3:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmmm...4 reasons

Reason 1 ) Phil Jackson. This is the luckiest man this side of Red Auerbach. Yes, they are both the winningest coaches title wise in NBA history, but they had the best player EVER in the NBA in thier respective 3/4ths title runs. With Russell, Auerbach had a player who later became his own coach and STILL won the title…how many players can claim they were the head coach as well as the best player on thier team and won a title? Then came Jordan, who (yes with Pippen) basically carried the Bulls to 6 titles. Jackson’s best trait is basically the basketball version of Joe Torre. He is the best at massaging gigantic egos, so that the team of super-duper stars he was handed can play. Granted, that’s a rockin’ ability to have, but when the game is on the line, he can’t coach squat except “give the ball to Michael/Kobe, and get out of his way.” The Finals where Paxson/Kerr won it? Jordan called the play, NOT Jackson. Look it up on those old Finals films they run on ESPN2 sometime. It’s true. When he doesn’t have the 2 best players at that time on the planet, he can’t get past the semi’s, or even the first round.

2) The Early Lakers(speaking of “dominant players”)-Shaq. How on Earth does he even get mentioned with the best of all time? He’s a 7-1’/ 7-2’ mass of what some call a man, listed (quite generously) at 325 lbs…and has no game AT ALL from 5 ft. out. Notice he started getting really good when he had -—A) Almost all the true Big Men (Ewing, Olajuwon (who to this day can make Shaq his b$(&@ ) Robinson, Malone, etc. were retiring or obviously on thier last legs…and B) got the Next best perimiter player on the planet named Kobe Bryant. When the Lakers beat my Spurs in 01, 02, and 04, I never once worried about Shaq, I worred about Bryant. Oh, and 2 more things…how is it that he is such a liability on his team he has to be taken out during key stretches of games? If you’re dominant, shouldn’t that be the opposite? And how is it that if you look up the title of “worst picture you could possibly take of a person because they look like the stupidest guy on the planet” you will ALWAYS find a pic of Shaq? Can that man get any DECENT pic taken of him?? Seriously….I could go on, but I bet I’m boring you now…

Reason 3) Kobe. I was SOOO on the Kobe side in his tit-for-tat with Shaq. I was estactic that Shaq was gone….then Kobe got “the man” ego waaaay outta proportion. It started with him GIVING UP on his team to prove a point. I don’t care what superstar you are, you DO NOT give up on your team because of your ego. As much as I hate him, Malone didn’t, Tim hasn’t, Ginobili hasn’t, Jordan NEVER did, Olajuwon, etc. (Come to think of it, Pippen did, so there’s another knock on Jackson)....then Kobe comes out, whines and whines and whines, demands trades, tells everyone in ear shot that his team sucks, that his team is a D-league team that was “very fortunate” to even KNOW him, etc. etc. Disses his front office every shot he gets. Then Bynum plays well, Kobe gets quiet for a bit, actually praises Bynum…then Bynum gets hurt and it’s all “trade me! trade me! You guys suck!!” all over again. Then they pull Gasol outta thier butts and it’s all “I’m great!!” again. THAT is the reason that I don’t think Bryant should have won the MVP. The MVP, any way you swing it, should not be given to a player that has quit on his own team not once, but 2 times, the 2nd time being HALF OF THIS YEAR. Which brings me to Reason 4..

Reason 4) This isn’t a knock on the Lakers per-se’ (more on the NBA office), but honestly it has to be because they ARE LA. Given that LA is #1 or #2 on the NBA’s market system, the Commish himself said “Lakers-Lakers” is his dream final….take the above information. You have the BEST perimiter player in the planet, the one person who can single-handedly change the shape of any game, in LA. Now he wants out, dooming your #1 market to suck-dom for the forseeable future. You see hope when some of the “role players” play well, and he quiets down, but then one goes down for the season and he starts right back up. You just got off a Donaghey scandal that is THE WORST THING that could have ever happened to any sport, and it happened to you….do you not try your hardest to appease him?! Honestly. I don’t buy into conspiracy theories unless they involve Joey Crawford and my Spurs, but on the wake of Donaghey, on the wake of Boston (thier #2 market) getting the cream trade of the century-according to the Laker fans, and most everyone else at the time-do you really want to give the conspiracy buffs MORE ammo??? Sheesh.

I don’t hate LA, I just don’t like them. Other than the above, I really don’t have an issue with the other players, and they are quite likeable.

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 26, 2008 4:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE: "But I think Kobe is a terrible person, the kind who might have been a serial killer had he not had such amazing basketball talent."

No, not a serial killer. Just a rapist

allegedly

by Gino20 on May 26, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As fans, we can only view our “heroes” through the prism of a very few isolated incidents. For Kobe, those would be: the Snaq/Kobe feud, Kobe telling the cops that Snaq paid off women he had affairs with, PJax’s book, Paul Shirley’s book, the Colorado “situation”, Kobe dissing Bynum to some kids at the mall. You always hear that Kobe’s teammates don’t really know him, that he does his own thing. He always seems to be doing an act, playing a role: now he’s in “supportive teammate” mode, but to me, it just doesn’t seem genuine.

Taken together, Kobe seems to have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER how to relate to people. Like people are not people, just things to help him attain his goals. That’s where I was coming from comparing him to a serial killer.

In the latest BS Report, Bill Simmons interviews Chuck Klosterman. Klosterman calls Kobe the “most successful tragic figure” in sports history, and goes on to speculate that nothing Kobe has achieved gives him any satisfaction, to the point where he is not only not as happy as your average basketball player, but not as happy as a receptionist, construction worker, etc. I have to say I agree 100% with Klosterman’s thoughts on Kobe.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on May 26, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmmmm

I actually agree with a lot of what you said. I also commend you for your level of respect for most of the Lakers. I agree we are not a “dirty” team, although we whine our fair share. Kinda the way I feel about the Spurs. They are not my favorite team (obviously) but I respect their talent and they play the game the right way. The only Spur I really don’t like or respect is Bruce Bowen. I am sure you disagree, but I have seen a lot of dirty play from him either in person or on YouTube. Man there are a lot of videos of his activities.

The part I question is the “hate” of Derek Fisher, and the bad attitude of Andrew Bynum. I assume you hate him because of .4. Otherwise I do not get that one. Unless you are from Utah of course. And I have no clue what the “attitude” of Andrew Bynum means. I am a Laker fan and I have never heard or seen anything about his attitude.

Actually looking back you said “cant stand” not “hate” Derek Fisher, my bad.

by pslakerfan on May 25, 2008 5:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bynum’s got the perpetual puss thing going on with his face, very much like Devean George did/does. I hate that. He got ejected the last time we played him, so he’s got some attitude issues, for sure. And I question how hard he’s worked on his rehabilitation.

by Aaronstampler on May 25, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bynum rehab

Uhh, the fact that he had to have arthroscopic surgery to clean things up in his knee basically tells you that him not coming back has nothing to do with his work-ethic. He tried to come back at the end of the season, but was told by doctors and the pain in his knee, which ended up being the reason why he needed surgery, wouldn’t allow him too. And I wouldn’t say he has a bad attitude either. Tim Duncan doesn’t look like the most cheery guy on the court or in interviews and he’s no sour puss.

I remember the game when Bynum got ejected. He was called for a bogus technical foul, got upset about it and drew another T. Things like that happen all the time.

by Xodus on May 25, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Second opinion?

Bynum actually flew to New York to get a second opinion on his knee because he wanted to play and the Laker doctors wouldn’t clear him. However his doctor in New York concurred with the ones on the Lakers. Rightly so in retrospect. But I don’t think that shows a lack of effort.

by pslakerfan on May 25, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly...

Anyone who says Bynum wasn’t serious about his rehab is misinformed or uninformed. No offense, but it’s true.

by Xodus on May 25, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Devean George was hit with a trunk of an ugly tree

He didn’t have the perpetual puss thing going man, that was just his face 24/7.

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 26, 2008 2:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Fisher?

How about Fisher?

As far as his rehabilitation I don’t know how you know that and no one else does, but he did just have surgery because the rehab wasn’t working. As far as an ejection, I don’t remember the circumstances but a puss look on his face would make him a Tim Duncan look-a-like wouldn’t it?

by pslakerfan on May 25, 2008 5:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I didn’t like Fisher well before 0.4. I felt like he was no was no where near as good as he thought he was. All he ever did was hit wide open jumpers orchestrated by one of 5 or so Lakers better than him and flop / draw charges. And, like Duncan, he never thinks he commits a foul. NEVER.

As for 0.4, I was grateful for his reaction. He ran around the court with a shocked look on his face; like he couldn’t believe he hit the shot. If we would have reacted differently, like, say, with a smug “I knew I’d hit that shit” face… I probably would have hunted him down and tried to hurt him (and failed, of course).

by sungo on May 25, 2008 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fisher

I’ve never gotten the sense from Fisher that he thinks he’s better than he is. He’s always looked like a guy with his head firmly on his shoulders. He does have reason to be confident in his abilities, I just heard this stat a few days ago, that Fisher is the NBA’s all-time leader in 3-point percentage in the playoffs among guys with at least 300 attempts.

by Xodus on May 25, 2008 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

92.7 % of all stats are made up on the spot

by Gino20 on May 26, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright… who’s gonna fall for it….?

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 26, 2008 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

More on Fisher

I guess I understand it looks different from your perspective. I also understand you are speaking about on-court activities, but I really think you are wrong on that one.

I would bet if you asked all NBA players, coaches, and executives who the most respected player in the leagues was that Fisher would be near the top. He is in fact extremely humble, charitable, and is the president of the players association. I had forgotten about the 3 pt. percentage thing, but I knew that in the past as well.

He does lead the league in charges taken this year, and I suppose that doesn’t come without it’s share of flops, but most of the time he just jumps in takes his chances. To me a flop is a major exaggeration, and I don’t see Fisher doing that. When a guy 275 lbs flies across the court after being hit by a guard, that is what I call a flop. (Read: Vlade Divac or Mehmet Okur)

by pslakerfan on May 25, 2008 5:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You forgot Shaq

When Parker hit him in the Spurs/Suns series this year, Shaq ended up in the 2nd/3rd row, this is after he hit Parker hard enough (same play) that Parker’s trajectory was altered midflight—-no way on Earth that was a flop on Parker, and for a …what…170 lb guy to hit and throw a 325-370 (listed weight, actual weight I’m sure) from in front of the basket to the 3rd seating row?

Aye, that’s a flop. Sad thing is, and what Pheonix fans don’t seem to see, is that I would say Shaq NEVER flopped (I never saw once) when someone was coming to the basket. I hate hate hate HATE Shaq—but I will give him that. As soon as he came to Pheonix, it’s as if he was light as a feather when someone hit him….. sigh

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 26, 2008 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate it when people are rational when the Spurs are in a hole.

by LatinD on May 25, 2008 5:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kobe no flopper?

I just read an article from JA Adande (JackAss to Laker fans) about the European influence on the Lakers. He basically called Kobe a European player the way he plays. At the end Kobe said:

“I still don’t flop,” Bryant said. “I don’t give a damn how many years I spent in Italy, I still won’t do that [stuff]. I won’t wear a headband with long hair. Other than that, it’s cool.”

I don’t know I just found that really funny…

by pslakerfan on May 25, 2008 6:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah that headband thing was pretty funny

by Xodus on May 25, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What!! Can’t muster enough “hate” for our main rival for all these years? Are you saying we are okay or at least resigned to the fact that Lakers might (probably.. okay most likely if they get by us!) get a ring this year?

meh. me too.

Can I still “hate” Sasha? I have this irrational hatred boiling over for that guy.

by hak518 on May 25, 2008 6:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Of course you can hate Sasha. Most of the league does, and even some Lakers….. Ok they don’t hate him but they think he is annoying.

by pslakerfan on May 25, 2008 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I’ll start eating crow about what I said about Odom if he shows up for this game. Last game doesn’t count since I probably could have scored 10 on our boys in game 2. =)

by hak518 on May 25, 2008 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yay!

I don’t have to eat crow yet about Odom. I’m telling you, the man can’t perform under pressure.

by hak518 on May 26, 2008 2:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve had trouble re-developing my hate for the Spurs. I respect Parker, Ginobili and Duncan. They’ve got one our former stalwarts in Horry. The only guy I can muster dislike for is Bowen, but he’s such a nice guy off the court that I can’t really hate him. I probably hate Shaq more than the entire Spurs team.

by Xodus on May 25, 2008 6:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It’s so sad when they respect you. I think that’ll go back to hate if we get to 2-2.

by LatinD on May 25, 2008 7:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't get me wrong...

I almost always root against the Spurs. It’s just that I don’t hate them. Really, the only team I hate right now is Phoenix. I look forward to possibly hating the Celts if both teams make it to the Finals. All of their bravado and chest bumping is pretty annoying.

by Xodus on May 25, 2008 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

regardless of who wins, that will definately be what i believe we (root for the western conference? fuck yankees) can unite for. i want to see pierce and garnett go down, pierce is a closet thug and garnnett is too into chest bumping, even though kobe does plenty of it.

but he’s still west coast, so as a ranking junior in college in credit hours, i, hamer_spursfan, approve of this endorsement.

What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)

the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post

by Hamer_SpursFan on May 26, 2008 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m with you. As I said before, KG’s a jersey-popping idiot. I’m rooting for the Pistons at this point.

by LatinD on May 26, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No you are just ignorant

KG plays with so much hustle, heart, intensity, and every synonym of “playing hard.” In case you didn’t realize, you show how hard you work and how much you care based on how much screaming and chest-bumping you do. No one in the history of civilization has ever cared about anything as much as KG cares about basketball.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on May 26, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cares, yes...clutch, no.

That’s been the knock on KG for years, and it has held up. I can count JUST ONCE….in the Sacramento series in the semifinals when the Wolves went to the WCF, when KG had a “statement game.” Every other time when it comes down to it, he looks timid, unsure, etc. He’s an excellent basketball player, yes, but he does NOT have that “extra gear” that Bryant, Ginobili, or Duncan (from this series) have. Even in Boston, in crunch time they go to Pierce, not KG.

Case in point. Last night Duncan went off for 22 pts. 22 rebounds 5 assists. And it’s NOT even talked about. His press interview was 3 questions about Ginobili, and 2 questions about the Lakers. It’s EXPECTED of him to be that great, and he’s taken for granted. Yet if KG went for 22/22/5? You wouldn’t stop hearing about it for a week or so.

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 26, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to agree with you there. I would say KG is one of the least “accountable” superstars I have seen…..

by pslakerfan on May 26, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My lasting memory of KG and his legacy came several years ago in the All-Star game. Flip was coaching the West at the time, and also KG’s head coach in Minnesota. End of game, the West need a bucket to win. Timmy and KG on the floor. Who did Flip call the play for? Yeah, NOT his own “clutch winner” KG, but Timmeh. It wasn’t a matter of avoiding the appearance of collusion or favoritism. It was a coach recognizing who could be counted on. A weak example I know, but very telling in that KG is incapable of stepping up consistantly and not worthy to be counted in any arguement that involves Duncan. I’ll never forget that moment, and KG has done nothing since to change that perception.

What Cheryl lacks in ears she makes up in cock n balls. -CMoney

by SgtinManusArmy on May 26, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup

I remember that moment too. The Sports Guy seems to think that KG might have been Duncan, and vice versa, had they switched teams early on. Riiiiggghhhttt.

Here’s the thing. Duncan doesn’t need to scream at the rafters, pound his chest and do interviews with Bill Russell (the greatest winner in NBA history, by the way) to make you believe how much he cares about winning.

And he sure as hell doesn’t need a Gatorade commercial to tell you how clutch he is.

by Foodbag on May 27, 2008 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even though he's a tool half the time....

Simmons has never compared KG to Duncan, and the only time he did was probably in his self-admitted “KG for MVP” jerkfest column. In fact, he’s taken the side that Duncan would have taken those Wolves teams past the 1st round (at least some of them), and that Duncan isn’t as concerned with showing the whole world how intense he is as KG is, and that’s why he always is ready to dominate in the playoffs.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Respectuflly, I disagree...

In a recent article, Simmons wrote:

“Fair or unfair, Garnett will always be measured against Tim Duncan, who has already carried the Spurs to four titles. It’s easy to forget now that TD had his own blips and stumbles along the way, or that he played in 71 playoff games before famously demolishing the Nets with a 21/20/10 line in the clincher of the 2003 Finals. Wired very much like Garnett—completely selfless, phenomenally competitive, thoughtful as a teammate—Duncan learned to channel his intensity, saving peak performances for when they mattered most. He figured out that there was a crucial difference between a ho-hum January game in Atlanta and a must-win playoff game in LA. He’s clearly developed a reliable mental alert: All right, unless I grab 20 rebounds tonight, we’re going to lose. Or: If I don’t take over this game right now and score every time down the floor, we’re cooked.”

Homer that he is, Simmons has been trying to rationalize away the difference between KG and Duncan ever since the former joined the Cs. He even wondered earlier this season if a Duncan-KG matchup in the finals might change our perspective on who was the greater power forward.

To be fair though, I do think that Simmons is finally ready to concede that Duncan is clutch and KG is not.

by Foodbag on May 28, 2008 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn, you're completely right

KG just cares too much. Thanks, Ozzie.

by LatinD on May 26, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I seriously hope you detected the sarcasm

No one in the history of civilization has ever cared about anything as much as KG cares about basketball.

I would hope people would take that line with at least 1 grain of salt.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on May 26, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

...Ozzie, I was matching your sarcasm with sarcasm…

I thought that was mandatory in these cases… Next time I’ll add a smiley or something. But for the record, I doubt you’ll ever see me snap at someone in a sports forum. (ginoblisucks doesn’t count.)

So if I’m doing that, I’m just kidding.

by LatinD on May 26, 2008 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No harm done :)

I seriously should punch myself for using emoticons, but whatever.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on May 26, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I actually do not hate the Lakers as much as Dallas and Utah. They have titles, a solid history, their fans know basketball – unlike Utah, they do not cheap shot near as much as Dallas and they don’t have near as many gang members on the team as Dallas.

With that said. I don’t like the way they cheat the system.

There is no way in hell they are under the salary cap. They have half the team locked up in long term contracts. There has to be under the table money going on. San Antonio just can not compete on a talent vs. talent basis because of the huge financial advantage the Lakers have. Here is my break down of both teams.

All stars: Kobe, Pau and Odom
Very Good Players: Radmanovic, Fisher, Bynum, Vujacic
Good Players: Walton, Farmar, Turiaf
Middle of the Road: Mihm
Bench Clowns: Mbenga, Newble

All Stars: Tim, Manu, Tony
Very good players:
Good Players: Bowens, Barry
Middle of the Road: Finley, Udoka, Oberto, Bonner, Horry, Vaugn, Thomas
Bench Clowns: Stoudamire, Mahinimi

Your telling me these teams have $2 Million team salary difference?

I also don’t like the way they acquire players. While the Spurs are begging players to join and trolling after the likes of Grant Hill and Stoudamire, the Lakers are doing this….

Shaq: Signed in a back room deal which blindsided Orlando before contract negotiations could begin.

Kobe: Held the Hornets hostage after he was drafted. Screamed like a bitch. Signed in another backroom deal before any other teams had a chance to realize what was going on.

Pau: Jerry West, Mr LA Laker, took the GM job with the Grizzlies knowing there would be a fire sale and he could gift wrap Gasol and whoever else he could send over without getting a phone call from Stern, to the Lakers. He was traded for a hand full of magic beans. Look for West to re-join the Lakers in the near future. That will be the shoe that drops.

Most of all, I am pissed at Pop and Spurs hierarchy. I can not stomach enemy players driving right down the lane for easy layups. I can not watch our players go for weak ass layups and then get blocked over and over. I can not take seeing younger teams alley oop dunk on us multiple times game after game. The Spurs saved huge money this season and Pop was drunk for half the season. Ok, glad you guys had a good time, now I expect next season to see some youth, energy, coaching, athleticism, guys that can dunk, guys with some hops, height, guys that can create their own offense and guys with foot speed. That is the bargain Spurs leadership, you took this season off, so now you owe us one.

by Clintons Cigar on May 25, 2008 7:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with your comments on LA basically fleecing other teams when it comes to trades. But it takes two to tango (usually a shitty GM on the other side) and we can’t verify the under the table deals so.. LA did what it takes to get the players to win. They are naturally advantageous (big market, weather, locale, etc) and they exploited that. I don’t hate them for that.

As for Pau, West didn’t make the trade, Chris Wallace did. Was/Is West still an executive at Memphis? If so, your theory could hold but I doubt it.

by hak518 on May 25, 2008 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

West was a "consultant" still for the Grizz

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 26, 2008 2:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No offense, but STFU already about the Pau trade. Half of you here say that “Pau sucks”, “Pau is soft”, etc. And the other half talks like the steal of the century took place. Which one is it?????

by pslakerfan on May 26, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pau doesn't suck

I don’t even really think he’s soft mentally, it’s just that he’s thin, and light, and not as strong as most of his opponents. But as a second or third player, he can be very effective.

I would say that Pau is a 7.5 or 8 out of 10. Considering they traded Kwame Brown, who I would say is like a negative 2 out of 10, that’s a 10 point talent disparity! (Yes I know they also threw in some other players who either a) would never play for the Lakers and b) draft picks likely to be at the end of the first round).

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on May 26, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pau IS soft, but he’s very talented. An all-star player who just “happened” to land in LA in exchange for a Happy Meal and a case of pecans. I understand your frustration in constantly hearing about how you were lucky to get Pau, but that’s something you’re going to have to deal with. Everyone in the league was envious of the trade, and it’s not going to go away unless Pau plays like he did in Game 3 for the rest of the playoffs.

I frequently praise victory by maturation over victory by acquisition. It’s more respectable, more sportsman, and more impressive. But In reality, isn’t a win a win? If we had the opportunity to land Boozer or CBosh in exchange for the JV, though I believe in the maturation/acquisition mantra; I’d be furious if we didn’t take advantage of the situation. If you have the chance to win more or go further by acquisition alone, wouldn’t you be stupid NOT to take it? There’s not one other team in the NBA that wouldn’t have jumped on that “trade” if given the opportunity, you guys were just fortunate enough to get it. And if it makes your team better and gets more wins (or even a ring), who cares! It’s not like anyone expected you guys to refuse the deal because “it wasn’t fair.” You had the opportunity, you took it, and it’s paying off in success. Congratulations.

But don’t expect not to hear frustration or envy or jealousy over the deal, that’s just the way it works.

What Cheryl lacks in ears she makes up in cock n balls. -CMoney

by SgtinManusArmy on May 26, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair is fair

I can’t blame Mitch Kupchak for making that trade. In fact, I’d blame him for not making it.

Granted, he made the trade with Chris Wallace, a GM clearly in need of some adult supervision. I mean, I’m pretty sure Wallace was the same guy who took Vin Baker off Seattle’s hands after Baker developed serious alcohol problems during the strike-shortened season. Hell, Wallace made Pitino look savvy by comparison.

But if you’re the lakers GM, and Chris Wallace says,” how about I give you Pau Gasol while simultaneously taking Kwame Brown off your hands,” could you possibly say yes fast enough? Or would you be too busy waiting for Ashton Kutcher to tell you you were being punked?

Lastly, was West the Lakers GM when the trade for Kwame happened in the first place? If so, maybe he (as a consultant for the Grizz) was just trying to make amends for a HUGE mistake.

Kurt Thomas ain’t no Pau, but we got him for a draft pick and a one-month vacation for a Barry (who probably needed the rest anyway). And we got Fin (back when he was still alive) on the cheap thanks to Dallas being stupid.

by Foodbag on May 27, 2008 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Salary cap

The Lakers are way over the salary cap. What makes you think they are not? It is not a hard salary cap (Like the NHL), it is a soft cap in which you pay a tax when you go over. So it’s not cheating or even under the table, it is just the large market teams overspending. (Yankees, Knicks, Mavericks, etc…) For example the Mavericks official team salary this year is….....$105,661,739.00…......way more than the Lakers team salary of…........ $71,946,626

by pslakerfan on May 26, 2008 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't dis the best front office in the League

As in the Spurs. You preach that the Lakers get everyone, and the Spurs get craptastic players, that don’t do squat. You forget that the last 3 years could have been a Spurs 3-peat, with them being in the WCF for a 4th straight year. You call that craptastic front office management?

I won’t even touch 0.4, because the Lakers still had to win 1 more game there, the Spurs coulda/woulda/shoulda done something, but didnt. But…..BUT…Nowitzki goes in, Manu STUPIDLY fouls. Game goes to OT, Spurs used all thier energy to get back, poof, game to Mavs. Manu doesn’t foul, gets fouled on the inbounds, sinks both FT’s-since when does he NOT-Mavs jack up a wild 3, doesn’t go in, Spurs win Game 7. Next up, Pheonix, withOUT Amare, a banged up Bell, and Nash on fumes after 2 straight Game 7 series. Yeah, right, like they don’t win that. And unlike the Mavs, they would have sent the Heat home.

Please don’t be ticked off at Spurs management. No other team has won more titles this decade, or have been the “well crap, the championship goes through this town” for at least 6 years running now. —Yes 6 years. They won it in ‘03, the Lakers imploded in ‘04 and didn’t even give Detroit a sweat, the Spurs beat the snot outta Detroit in ‘05, and every year since, it’s been “you gotta go through SA to win the title.”

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 26, 2008 2:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True Dat

We complain a lot about Pop for a) not turning Beno Udrih into a reliable backup PG b) giving Luis Scola to Houston c) not developing James “Flight” White into Dominique Wilkins v2.0, this time with defense. He leans on veterans who seem over-the-hill, like Finley and Horry, or who can’t play and never could, like Jacque Vaughn. What an idiot!

And yet, he’s won 4 titles in 9 years. Sure, TD was and is a special player, but he didn’t guarantee rings. Look at similarly talented contemporaries like CWebb, KG, Amare, Lebron etc. etc. Pop and the front office must have been doing something right.

And what if Mahinmi comes in next year and dunks all over the place? If Splitter comes in and is the Spurs’ answer to Gasol? Will we be there to say “yep, Pop, you were right, our bad.”

I worry about the day Duncan hangs it up, but I REALLY worry about the day that Pop rides off into the sunset to open his own winery, and RC gets hired by the Brooklyn Nets or whoever for megabucks.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on May 26, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

odd this lakers-spurs mutual respect

but what’s even stranger is how much most people seem to hate the Spurs. I don’t get it at all. I think it’s part jealousy over all the championships, part resentment over their tear-jerking dismantling of America’s Team the Kleenex Suns. And we all know how much Laker fans enjoyed watching Steve Nash jump under our guys as they dunked the ball for 2 straight years, thus “drawing a charge”. Not sure what the point of my rant is. Bruce Bowen is the best perimeter defender in the league, with the job he does on Kobe, and it’s not even close. Respect.

by go_lakers on May 25, 2008 9:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The Kleenex Suns. That’s brilliant.

by sungo on May 25, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

double true

“Kleenex” Suns, as Powell noted, is brilliant.

by Foodbag on May 26, 2008 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's because people want to see the old 130-125 games

and don’t care about great defense. The Spurs preach defense, same as the Pistons (annually anyways) and so when either of them are there, no one watches because they are “boring.” They do the same thing every other team does (slash to the hoop, have a dominating inside presence, play crisp, team basketball) but since they also don’t have a chest pounding, shirt ripping, logo thumping all-star player, no one cares. (Tim Duncan has shown more emotion in this year than in the past 3 years combined, look it up :p )

I’ve heard the Kleenex Suns before, and I love the reference :) And yes, I will defend any Laker fan who gets dissed about Fisher if they bring up Nash…because Nash does it FAR more and FAR worse than Fisher could ever dream of…. so sick of seeing him rush under a driving player who is already in the air, or rush under a screen and get to the other side to STOP…and fall, and get some dumb call.

"This team is like a bunch of cockroaches. They just don't die!" -Charles Barkley, after Game 7 vs. the NOOCH.

by Nixiack on May 26, 2008 3:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess so

but anyone who’s been a fan of a poor/awful defensive team (see Lakers, 2007) should not have a problem appreciating great defense. Spurs-Pistons was a classic- what could be better than Horry single-handedly winning game 5 in Detroit, and then the Pistons winning in San Antonio to set up that great game 7? As for your point about superstars, I know the NBA needs a Superman they can market to jersey-buying teenagers, but I’d like to think the average fan isn’t that simple. The 2006 finals had Wade, which resulted in a lot of us feeling sick (although I know you guys hate the Mavs, so I’m sure you enjoyed it on that level).

Anyway, I think this has the potential to be a great series. I see the Spurs winning game 4 setting up an epic finish which could go either way.

by go_lakers on May 26, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok everybody, let's come back to our senses

Even though the mutual exchange of respect and compliments on this thread has gotten me to thinking that Israelis and Palestinians can be friends, I’m gonna have to call bs on this circle-jerk. We’re in the middle of a playoff series people, these are our enemies. We can be friendly but let’s not forget that.

p.s. This is mostly tongue-in-cheek. I think.

I'm comfortable winning -- Emmanuel Ginobili

by pollackj on May 26, 2008 1:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs