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A Team Comfortable With Winning

Was there ever a doubt?

You knew the Spurs were gonna step up. You knew it. They have too much pride, too much experience, and yes, too much depth, to lose to a two man team. In retrospect, the only surprising thing about the series was that it took seven games. Blame Tim's flu. Blame Pop not figuring out at the beginning that Peja must be eliminated from the equation. Blame Joey Crawford. Blame the perimeter shooters for bricking wide open three after wide open three in the second halves of the first three road games.

Were the Hornets scary? Hell yes they were scary. They were probably a better squad than any of the four we played last year on our way to the title. But ultimately I think what made them imposing were a couple of factors that seemed more important at the time than they really were.

1. They got off to that 2-0 lead. Yes, that made everyone very nervous. But we led both games at half (as we wound up doing six of seven) even with Duncan clearly not himself and Peja going off. Let's be real about this one. Home court advantage is real. It is a factor. Winning on the road in the playoffs is difficult against good teams. When you start off a series on the road (not something the Spurs have done a lot of in the Big Three Era) sometimes being on the wrong end of 2-0 happens. But despite the history of the thing, I never for one second thought we were done. Not all 2-0s are the same. You have to factor in all those pitiful 7 and 8 seeds that go into that 94%. We were in both games, despite being at a physical and tactical disadvantage.

2. We finally faced a point guard more dangerous/athletic than Tony. Don't underestimate this. One of the reasons the Spurs have been so successful over the years is that going into a series they knew that their point guard was faster and could get more lay-ups than the other team's point guard. We had the athletic mismatch there. Not with New Orleans though. Tony finally met his match with Paul, a guy who could stay with him, step for step, plus they were doubling Timmy to take him out, so it took us a bit to figure out how to attack these guys. I think by putting Bowen on Peja, Pop sent a message to the team: The Hornets don't have more good players than we do. Their best scorer just happens to play point guard. He's still one of only two guys that can create his own shot. Once the Spurs figured out that they're not dealing with an All-Star team here and that the Hornets had the same weaknesses every other team has, they got their collective groove back.

3. The Game 5 loss. A lot of people wrote the Spurs' epitaph when they dropped Game 5 - convincingly - to go down 3-2 for the series. Whenever a series is 2-2, the team that wins the fifth game has an overwhelming edge, even more so when they have home court. But again, I don't think every 3-2 is the same. Look at the Spurs situation when they were down 2-0 realistically. They knew they had to win four out of five. It would've been wildly optimistic, given how good the Hornets are, to expect San Antonio win four in a row. The more manageable scenario to ask of the guys, is to not look at the task at hand as a needing to go on a four game winning streak. Instead break it into two doable clumps - two two game winning streaks. Win two, take a breather, win two. If I told you after Game 2 that the Spurs would win 4-3 and asked you to guess which game we'd lose, everyone would've said Game 5; it's the only logical choice.

Anyway, about the game itself, it certainly was no beauty. Game 7s rarely are. Honestly though, anyone that's upset that Manu shot 6-19 or Tim shot 5-17 or Tony shot 7-17 can just cram it. Some people just don't understand the psychology of a Game 7 between two great teams.  The pressure is immense and the defensive intensity is unparalleled. There is no such thing as an easy basket. The teams have to fight for every inch.

You think this game was ugly? Go look at the box score of our Game 7 Finals win vs. the Pistons. 81-74. We, the winning team, scored one less point there than the Hornets did on Monday. Pray tell you tell me who had a pretty line against Detroit besides Plainview and Roho. Tony scored 8 points, shot 3-11 and had to frequently be subbed with Brent Barry because he was petrified. Tim Duncan shot 10-27 and he was lauded as a postseason hero and Finals MVP afterward. Game 7s aren't easy, people. And this time it was on the road.

But yes, The Big Three struggled. Mightily so. And one could argue that they were bailed out by the role players: Kurt, Fab, Fin, Ime and Robert. Without their efforts we'd surely be fishing right now.

That is one train of thought.

Me? I'm thinking it's about fucking time they did something. Not to sound ungrateful, but let's call a spade a spade for a minute. If these guys played better in the regular season, not only would we have had home court for this series, but in the upcoming one as well. Also, it's not like the six three pointers that Fin, RoHo and Ime hit came as a result of them breaking guys down off the dribble and then hitting step back bombs. No, they were all wide open shots created by - YOU GUESSED IT - the big three. As open as our shooters were all series, me, you or Matthew could've hit a couple with enough attempts. Hell, even Jannero Pargo canned a couple eventually.

Besides, the story of the game was the Spurs defense. Offensively we learned nothing in Game 7. We were still the same crappy ice-cold shooting second half team we were in Games 1,2, and 5 and only managed 40 points, and that's with Manu's freebies in desperation time. I think the whole team got maybe five lay-ups the whole game (two for Tony, one for Tim, Ime, and Kurt). Defense is what won it for us and we shut down the Hornets by clamping down the paint, (except for the occasional lob to Chandler) rotating out to their shooters on threes, and keeping them away from the charity stripe. The disparity in free throws and threes was the difference. And of course, our rebounding was huge,except for that one horrifying memorable sequence late in the 4th when the Hornets took five shots in one possession with Pargo burying the fifth to make it a three point game.

Pop did a lot of things out there to keep the Hornets guessing and on their toes. Every few minutes he would change up the defense. Sometimes Tony was on Paul. Sometimes Bruce. Sometimes Oberto would take West, sometimes it'd be Tim. We gave them a full court press to start off the second half, just to mix it up and get the guys moving so they wouldn't be sluggish. We played their pick-and-roll a variety of ways, sometimes ambushing Paul, sometimes backing off. Really the only thing that seemed to utterly confuse us is when Byron Scott gave Pargo the ball in the 4th quarter - using Paul almost as a decoy - and let him run the show. Nothing else was working for them and for whatever reason, Tony had a hell of a time with Pargo in the 4th. But we held on.

While we had a lot of heroes in Game 7 (all nine guys who played contributed in some fashion, at both ends) you'd have to say that the unsung star of the game for the Spurs was Peja Stojakovic. God was he terrible. He finished 3-11 and about half of his attempts were awful, contested, forced shots. He choked, simple as that. Peja was so frustrated whenever Bruce was guarding him that whenever somebody else like Manu or Ime took a turn, he immediately chucked one up if he got even a crack of daylight, regardless of how far from the basket he was or who else was open. It's never a good thing when the best thing you can say about Stojakovic's night was his defense on Manu, and even that wasn't all that good.

Also, I just want to take a moment to point out, again, that Chris Paul, in addition to being a wonderful basketball player, is a classless bitch punk. He took a lot of cheap shots at our guys this game and again the zebras seemed to look the other way and the broadcasters (Marv Albert and Reggie Miller, naturally) ignored the Golden Boy altogether. In the 3rd quarter while forcing a turnover from Finley, Paul swung his left arm behind the play and hit Fin on the side of the face. On purpose. Look at the film. In the 4th, while scrambling for a loose ball with Ginobili, he basically punched Manu repeatedly in the face until the ref blew a whistle. He hit him clean two, three times. Both of his desperation fouls late, his fifth and sixth, were also rougher than need be. And of course, he didn't shake anyone's hands after the game and made a bee line for the tunnel. Bee line, get it? Ha.

As for our series MVP, while this round wasn't as easy to pick as the last one,  where Tony just discombobulated the Suns, objectively you'd have to give it to Ginobili. He didn't shoot a great percentage, and he treated the paint like it was Chernobyl for much of the series, but he led or tied for the team lead in scoring in four of the games and led or tied in assists in five of the games. He averaged a team high 21.3 points and 6.0 assists and the former is the most he's scored in any series since the Western Conference Finals against Phoenix in '04-'05 (though he put up the exact same avg, also in seven games, against the Mavs in '05-'06) and the latter is a career playoff high. Again, his shooting percentage wasn't great, but you have to factor in how many three point attempts he had, due to how the Hornets were shutting down the paint, and making 40% from three is like making 60% from two. But yes, I agree with Matthew that he'll have to be better against the Lakers.

They all will.

When the game was over Charles Barkley called the Spurs "cockroaches" as in, they always find a way to survive, no matter what. He said it like it was a novel concept but honestly, my BFF Manolis beat him to it by years.

Ever seen the Italian soccer team? Every World Cup, every Euro tournament, it's the same thing.They're not flashy, they don't have the high scoring forwards or that stud midfielder like Zinedine Zidane who makes the game look so easy. They drop one of their early group games and the experts say they're done. But Italy always comes back, always survives as one of top two teams in their group to advance to the knock-out stages, and then they methodically keep advancing. By playing defense. By having role players step up. And yes, by flopping at opportune times. Almost always Italy makes the final. "They're fucking cockroaches, those bastards" Manolis said dismissively in 2006, though he pronounced it "cock-a-roach-es" to get me angry. "You can't get rid of them."

So there you have it, Team Italy, our brothers from another mother. Marco Materazzi, a no-name defenseman for them, became a World Cup hero because he not only scored a header goal off a corner kick against France in the '06 Final, but he successfully got Zidane riled up enough to get ejected from the game, headbutting Materazzi for suggesting that he slept with Zidane's sister. Sounds a bit like Horry's hip check on Steve Nash leading to the S.T.A.T. suspension, huh? The Cockroaches, I like the sound of that. You can't get rid of us, no matter how much the TV executives and the media try.

And all the suits will certainly have their fingers crossed as we face the league's showcase team, the Lakers. For now I choose to believe that we'll get a fair shake from the zebras. If the fix was in Phoenix would be playing L.A. right now for the Shaq-Kobe hype bullshit. If the fix was in Bryant the M.V.P. would be squaring up against his heir apparent in Paul. If the Spurs can make it this far, maybe the league isn't the WWF after all, no matter what the stereotype is.

I for one have a lot of confidence. The Hornets were a much better defensive team than the Lakers. Chandler is a beast in the middle. Their guys communicate well and really jam the paint. Byron Scott gets them to compete hard in their end. The Lakers don't do this. They trust themselves to win games on the other end. I expect Duncan to destroy either Gasol or Odom one-on-one, and he should have ample opportunity since Big Chief Triangle doesn't believe in doubling much. And like Matthew I totally think Tony has to blow by Derek Fisher time and again. Tony has no excuse to not own that match-up. He doesn't have to do anything on defense buy stay with him on the three point line. Fisher will not dribble, he will not penetrate, and he will not run the pick and roll. All he'll do is float on the perimeter. Tony cannot leave him. CANNOT.

The X-Factor as always will be Manu. He shot terribly against L.A. all year but may not have been fully healthy in any of the games. In one memorable game he was the best player on the court despite shooting 3-16. I don't think Kobe will be on him much unless it's close and late. Most of the time it'll be Walton, Radmanovic, Vujacic, etc. I'm not really worried about his individual defender. The screener gets that guy out of the way anyway. I want to see how aggressive Ginobili will go to the paint. I don't think he'll get like seven open three point attempts like last series. On defense he'll have his work cut out for him because the Lakers can post him up with multiple guys. There'll be a lot of Tinyball this series and he, Ime and Fin have to hold their own and rebound.

I'll tell you this much: I believe. With their eighth playoff win the Spurs did more than get by the Hornets. They crossed their proverbial title threshold, the way Moonlight Graham became Doctor Archibald Graham once and for all once he stepped over the 1st base line in "Field of Dreams." Every time The Big Three have won eight playoff games, they've gone on to win the title. Like they say in those stupid split head commercials that run all the time, they know they're close now. They can smell it.

When Craig Sager asked Manu after Game 7 if he'd like to stay as a starter and comfortable there or whether he'd rather go back to the bench, Manu replied, "I'm comfortable with winning, whatever the team needs..." etc. And really, that's the Spurs attitude in general - They're comfortable with winning. They're used to this environment, this pressure. You can beat them once, twice, or even three times, but you can't get rid of them for good. They looked awfully comfy on the road in New Orleans on Monday, didn't they?

P.S. I hate to be self-promoting, but in case anyone cares, here's the link to my last radio appearance, on ESPN Radio, 710 AM in Los Angeles on The Steve Mason show. It was recorded the day of Game 7 and the host, a big time Spurs hater was positive the Hornets would win. We had a good give and take and they invited me back for Wednesday and Friday, 2:25 p.m. Pacific time. It'll be fun to rub it in his face a little. Again, thanks to Matthew for making it possible for me.

P.P.S. I'm sorry I called you a rotting corpse, Fin.

 

 

 

 

 

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i’m with you in being more comfortable about this series as opposed to the last.

do you mind if i say “cock-a-roaches” instead? imagine it said in a raspy voice and a poor italian accent. i have heard that description of our spurs previously and it does fit very well.

cheap shot references including paul and zidane…..perfect. i was really surprised with how much time and effort paul put into throwing himself into people, whacking them mercilessly in loose ball situations and generally not playing straight up basketball. his post game sprint was the stuff of punk for sure.

also agreed 100% on fisher. we cant leave him as all he can do is hit from long range. actually, i think the same of almost every laker except kobe and gasol.

not sure if they will double tim, but they will get picked apart more so that the NOOCH if they do. NOOCH was far superior on defense and had an inside presence on that end of the floor.

loved the post, man – and i’m taking chelsea with drogba scoring the game winner.

by bones on May 21, 2008 6:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You’re underrating Fisher and Odom, you’re underrating Fisher and Odom, you’re underrating Fisher and Odom. I figured if I said it 3 times maybe you guys would listen once. Time will tell, but my prediction is (regardless of who wins series) that Fisher and Odom will have a better series than your predictions seem to allow for. And the idea that Odom is a “hit from the outside” kind of player makes you sound very un-informed. Odom is the least “hit from outside” player we have. He had approx. 16 ppg so far in playoffs and has attempted a total of 5 threes. All of his points are in the paint…..

by pslakerfan on May 21, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aye, I think Odom is your X factor, but about Fisher….seeing the Nuggets and Jazz series, I think Jacksons’ least favorite 4 words are “Fisher off the dribble” just like “Bowen off the dribble” is Pop’s least favorite 4 words. He’ll stay at the 3 pt line, and if we keep someone on him, that minimizes him.

I think it will come down to Odom vs. Ginobili, whoever has the better statistical game, that team will find it a lot easier to win. Another X factor is Kobe, strangely enough….Kobe may be avging 33 in the playoffs, but he typically avgs about 24 with SA (courtesy of ESPN page with the series on it) and about 1/2 his points have come from the charity stripe so far. If SA can turn Kobe into a jump shooter, and not a slasher, I think it will go a long way towards an SA win. If they can’t, then they are in trouble. You can’t deny that Kobe doesn’t get about 95% of the calls for him…esp when you see lines like this (from the Jazz series)

Kobe Bryant, SG 40 8-16 1-2 21-23 0 6 6 7 1 0 3 3 38
Kobe Bryant, SG 41 6-10 1-2 13-17 0 6 6 7 2 0 4 3 2
Kobe Bryant, SG 40 9-19 1-2 15-17 0 8 8 6 0 0 5 4 34

Seems like he went to the line almost the same amount of times as the whole Jazz team in some games, but then again the Jazz LOVE to foul :(

by Nixiack on May 21, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guys ARE pretty much fouling Kobe all the time

But that’s to be expected.

What I’ve noticed is that Tim Duncan is great at just getting arms his straight up, so that even if Kobe gets contact, Kobe won’t get the call.

Bowen is also good at avoiding the fouls calls that Kobe can normally get as he’s shooting, by staying balanced. But before the shot, Bowen is totally all over Kobe and fouling. Sometimes they call that, sometimes they don’t.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.........mostly

I agree with most of what you have said except the overall “if” factor. It seems as if a lot of people here have a common theme which is “if”. As in “if someone stays on Fisher at the perimeter” and “if Bowen turns Kobe into a jump shooter” and “if Manu and Odom are a wash” and “if Duncan gets Pau into foul trouble” etc. then the Spurs will beat the Lakers. All of those if’s are possible, but not likely that each will happen each game. I don’t think you will be able to just stay home on Fisher (shooting almost 60% from behind arc in playoffs) while also dealing with Pau, Odom, and Kobe. Not to mention other 3 pt. shooters like Vlad Rad and Vujacic.

If I am being honest here (and maybe a little homeristic) I see a 7 game battle for the ages or a Laker blowout (4 or 5 games). That is just the way I see it. I think the 7 game option is much more likely. Just my opinion, but I really do think you guys are thinking of the old Lakers and believe me the new Lakers are just a completely different team. And I am usually a stick in the mud pessimist myself.

by pslakerfan on May 21, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's no way

that the Lakers will blow out the Spurs. I’m still waiting for an answer to a question that I asked you in yesterday’s thread: What makes you think that the Lakers will be a tougher opponent for the Spurs than the Hornets were? The Hornets play much better defense than the Lakers. The Lakers actually had the easier half of the draw.

The Lakers’ best chance to win a given game will be tonight [as long as there are no serious injuries later in the series] – if they lose tonight, they are already toast.

by 4Him on May 21, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Hornets play much better defense than the Lakers?

I don’t know about that one. Lamar Odom is a great help defender, Fisher is compentent, Kobe is great when motivated, and Gasol is Tall. I attended the latest New Orleans-LA regular season game, so heavily based on that, I would not say that New Orleans is a much better defensive team than LA.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jackson's single covering Duncan

It’s been said already by him, and Kobe, that they are going to single cover Duncan because “they don’t want the open man to beat them.” So it will come down to how Duncan can dominate Gasol, and how Parker can get into the lane. Yes…IF…but should the Lakers have to counter and double team Duncan with Odom or Gasol, well the Spurs just had 7 gruelling games of practice vs. that strategy, and it didn’t work against them. Of course, that could be why Jackson is deciding NOT to double Duncan. Should Gasol get into foul trouble, without Bynum there, then yes, I do see a very positive swing to SA’s side.

by Nixiack on May 21, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It works both ways. Not all of us are frightened of the juggernaut that is the mighty lakers.

If Kobe can break the virus-like defense of Bruce Bowen (for not just one game, but a minimum of 4 straight); if Pau forgets that he’s never had the extra gear to rise up and take control of a game (not to mention in a playoff series vs. one of the all-time best defensive big men) and steps up to produce consistantly; if Fisher can somehow shake the D of Parker to drain 3s; if your role players step up large and produce effectively for a minimum of 4 games; if Odom doesn’t cave to pressure and somehow shakes loose a playoff D that he’s yet to see; If Kobe and team stay completely healthy in a brutal, bruising and taxing series; if the SPURS’ age, fatigue and mental exhaustion take over and they get out of rhythm; if the SPURS shooters are off for 4 out of 7 games…............................. then the lakers will beat the SPURS. Funny how homerism tends to cloud your perspective and simultaneously shield your fear.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Golf clap to the Sarge

The homer-istic thinking does work both ways.

Part of continuing to believe in your team is the mental activity of shielding your fear and coming up with enough of the right kind of IFs to convince yourself that your team can come through—while ignoring or reasoning away the IFs that threaten to take your guys down.

So, as the Spurs gear up to take on the next, more difficult, challenge. PtR is tasked with doing the same as the Laker faithful descend upon us—with not a troll among them to be seen.

I’m enjoying the change: instead of telling each other that we can’t wait for the game to start, we’re engaged in discussing differences in the way each fanbase is anticipating the series to play out.

Good stuff.

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Isiah Thomas comparison fits...

not only do their physical stature and their games match to some degree, but remember when Zeke & the Pistons were ousted by the Bulls in 1991? Isiah didn’t shake hands w/the Chi-Town ballaz.
Chris Paul will make a terrible GM

by Gino20 on May 22, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much agree with everything you said. I still remember the feeling of beating Italy at home in the ‘90 WC. Ah, what a day that was. To think I was only 7 years old and I still remember it.

I still think we’re one helluva tough game to beat 4 times out of 7. We’ll see what happens.

Great post, as always. Thanks for sharing.

And bones, ManU with Tevez’s game winner. Yeah, I’m a homer in football, too.

by LatinD on May 21, 2008 8:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Tevez deserves it after playing in that horrible West Ham team.

by Hipuks on May 21, 2008 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And saving them from dropping to the B league.

by LatinD on May 21, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was feeling pretty nervous about this series, but after reading your recap I feel a lot better about our chances against LA. The only downside from us winning game 7 is my damn playoff beard that’s really starting to bother, but hey, anything for my team.

by Hipuks on May 21, 2008 8:26 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That’s a fantastic post, AS. I especially like the “don’t break your arms patting yourself on the back, BenchBitches, it’s about freaking time.” I’m wondering who will be the frequent contributors in LA. I’m past hoping for any consistency from Fin, but I love the new story line that Oduka is writing for himself. We need that for this year, and even more for next. He could/should be an important young piece of our team for next year. (BTW, I’m sorry, Spurs, for my post after Game 2 about Pop ignoring our draft picks too long and us being too old – my bad, please forgive). I think Bowen is ready to keep doing his thing, but PLEASE, only from the Your Spot/Your Shot site – NOTHING ELSE – and how about working Bones back on to the team? I thought he could have really helped us in those losses against the NOOCH.

I too now hate Chris Paul – he’s a dirty bastard little flailing, cheap-shotting, flopmeister. And oh do I hate the idiot Reggie Miller – highlights (lowlights) – “Why would you take out Finley when he’s hot?” Marv: “Uh, perhaps for a little defense with one possession left for NO?” “Now Manu’s getting a taste of his own medicine” (Why didn’t the Hornets get called out for their horrible flopfest? – and we were really under control flop-wise throughout the whole series) There were more idiotic Reggisms but I can’t remember now. He’s really terrible, and dumb.

Did David West remind anyone of Crazy Eyez Killa from Curb? Did you see the promo when Crazy Eyez was with those little kids? Don’t you think they were shitting in their Garanimals?

Can’t wait to beat the Zenbastard. Did you catch Horry’s comment about how Phil never heeded his request for a double on Tim? That’s awesome, we’re totally winning.

Remember the Simulator Crew! Beat the Lakers!

by fliprose on May 21, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Stampizzle, as the authoritative FinDog fan on the site, your apology to FinDog has not been accepted yet. Calling a man a rotting corpse in the playoffs? You are going to have to go further and step to with an in game, “FinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnDoggggggggggggggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!”.

Great recap.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 21, 2008 8:39 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I can’t tell you how much I enjoy reading these analyses by Aaron and Matthew. You guys really know basketball and despite your love for the Spurs, you don’t hesitate to be critical of the players and coaches when it is warranted. I could do without some of the profanity, but again the analyses are great and fun to read.

One thing Pop says a lot is that in the playoffs your stars have to play well for the team to win. I think the farther you go in the playoffs, the more this is true. I believe that if the Spurs’ stars play well, they will win. I think that Manu, Tim and Tony are collectively better than anything the Lakers can throw out there. But all 3 have to play well to win this series.

It is interesting that in the 2 Spurs losses to LA on the road, they were short-handed. They should have won in LA without Tim and Tony, and later they got blown out without Manu. In the Spurs 2 wins the Lakers didn’t have Gasol. So no one really knows how these teams will look against each other at full strength.

I agree with the comment that the Spurs should have a new sense of confidence after the win against NO. I think they have what it takes to win this series and that their experience and resolve will carry them through.

Thanks again to all who contribute to this board. It really makes it fun to be a Manu and Spurs fan.

by Minnesota on May 21, 2008 8:42 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, only on PtR is Manu a god…And in Argentina…and in San Antonio…But, still, a lot of the b-ball world hates him. Nice to see so many people share my, ahem, love for him

by Gino20 on May 22, 2008 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking as fans

Don’t the Spurs fans have more to lose? I pose it this way, because the players don’t care so much what the public has to say.

Say the Spurs lose the series, you will have panic that the team is getting “old”, that “changes need to be made”, no?

On the other hand, if the Lakers lose, it’s “next year will be our time”, “we’ll have Bynum”, etc. Of course, Lakers fans will have to deal with “This is why Kobe can’t lead a team to a championship” articles and”Kobe is not the MVP”, “Kobe sucks” stuff. But we’ll still have next year.

Not trash talk, just something interesting to think about before the games start. And will they please start already?

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 11:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, the truth is that like every other team out there, the Spurs are aging. After we lost to the Mavs in the second round in ‘06, everyone said the Spurs were too old an unathletic to ever be a contender again. Yet we all know what happened in ‘07. Pop is not going to “panic” because some idiot says the team is too old. Win or lose this season, the Duncan era is not over. There is still a great core in place, and room to add new help.

An athletic and gifted PF, the 6’10” Ian Mahinimi will likely be on the teams roster next season (spent most of the season with the Toros). Also, the athletic and defensive minded (though apparently his offense has improved greatly too) 7’ C Tiago Splitter will likely be brought in from Tau Ceramica.

Finley, Vaughn, Damon, Horry, and Kurt Thomas all come off the books. DerMarr Johnson also does, but he is really there to be a summer league player to see if he can make ther roster. All those departures will equal cap space for the Spurs and they should make a run at signing an verstatile and athletic free agent wing player like Josh Childress. Thomas also might be re-signed for a minimum contract. The only dead weight we will have on the roster (and this is arguable) is Matt Bonner and he only costs the Spurs 3 million per year. Also, who knows if he won’t eventually work out as a role player?

By all appearances next season’s incarnation of the Spurs could easily be better than the ‘08 version. Even if the Lakers manage to squeak by the Spurs this year, it is too early for you to breath easy.

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

AmazingHappens, there’s a good article over at Deadspin previewing the series that talks about just this idea of how much a team has to lose and how it could affect the series.

http://deadspin.com/5010181/free-darko-on-los-angeles+san-antonio
(I'm not affiliated with the site or anything. Just a good read and thought I'd pass it along.)

Allez Spurs!

by JustinBK on May 21, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know what happened up there. I still have yet to figure out all the quirks in the new system here.

Allez Spurs!

by JustinBK on May 21, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

I agree with the premise, the Spurs do have more to lose as a team. I think the only player on the Lakers with more to lose is Kobe, because the Kobe-Hate will be out in full force if his team loses. Then again, he hears about it every time he has a bad game, so that’s probably what motivates him all the time anyway.

Los Angeles media and the players are giving San Antonio much respect right now. Although it would be easy to say “look the Hornets took Spurs to seven games”, I don’t know many Lakers fans taking the Spurs lightly.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

I couldn’t agree more, the Spurs definitely have more to lose. At least as far as perception or the media are concerned. The Spurs will hear “dynasty over”, “too old”, etc. if they lose. The Lakers (other than Kobe who will be grilled) will hear “wait until next year with a healthy team”, etc….

For the record the Lakers will be ridiculously good next year. Take it to the bank. Assuming reasonable health of course….

When Bynum becomes the Western conference version of Dwight Howard, remember where you heard it first.

by pslakerfan on May 21, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So much talk about Bynum

We can just hope he comes back to peak condition after that knee injury. To be sidelined for so long and THEN finally decide “surgery is best” isn’t the best thing in the world to hear, and we’ve already had a mild discussion regarding the Laker med staff on another thread.

My question is this…..what happens with Odom/Gasol? Honestly. Gasol by his nature will take Bynum’s stats out of the equation, and if he’s THAT good, he will take Gasol out of it a bit. It’s just nature. For Bynum to be Dwight Howard, he will be the focal point of that offense(like Howard is to the Magic)....if Bynum is your focal point, when you have Gasol-not to mention Kobe-in his prime, well that is bad. I see him at best as a younger Odom, honestly. And that does not bode well for Odom. Who knows, maybe Odom is FINALLY playing up to his potential because with Gasol there,and Bynum coming back, he knows he’s the odd man out.

by Nixiack on May 21, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great question

Nobody knows what Bynum’s return (next year at best) will do to the Laker lineup. Of course it is an assumption that they will be able to play together well. I don’t think Pau and Bynum will be a problem as much as Pau and Odom will. Adding Bynum will move Odom further from the basket where he does not excel. Only time will tell.

As for the Dwight Howard issue, obviously Bynum will not get the touches that Howard does, however as a PER for instance (hollinger is still and idiot) I think they are very very similar.

I know a lot of non Laker fans don’t know much of Bynum, but if you were to research it his pre-injury stats per 48 minutes were just sick. Ahead of Dwight Howard across the board….

by pslakerfan on May 21, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So again, what else is new? I’ve heard ‘they’re old’ with this team since ‘05. Two rings since then. Eventually yeah, they’ll be too old to play, but using that argument is weak considering that it’s a catch-22. You wouldn’t think me a prophet if I claimed that one day, some time in the near future, another Pacific coast volcano would happen. “It could happen this year.” Yeah, but if it doesn’t, I’m still safe since when it does finally occur, I can claim I was at the forefront predicting it and warning everyone in 2008. They’re old keeps consistantly getting shot down, even as the team ages beyond all understanding.

We’ve ALWAYS had more to lose. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Not many true SPURS fans are actually worried, we trust the most brilliant and most proven front office in the NBA to provide for us.

Another clever aspect of this arguement, when you lose you’ve already given yourself and your team an out. Injuries killed you this year, if the deck wasn’t stacked against you it would have been different. This just in- every team has an excuse if they look hard enough. It only exposes a fan base as cowardly and shallow to set up fall-back reasoning for a possible loss, before Game 1 has even been played!! What happens if King Bynum returns next year and you guys choke in the first round, fully intact? Are you going to be confused and uncertain? Should the team be blown up? Was there some other important piece conspiring against your run? No, that’s ridiculous. Win and lose on the floor, not in a pre-game blog.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely SiMA. I am reminded of Mavs fans who were oh so confident that they would be back in the championship picture after slipping up against the Heat. I warned them that it was a long road back to the finals and that there were no guarantees, but they thought their team was destined to go again (since the Spurs gorilla was now off their backs). And we all know what happened there.

Caution to you Laker fans. What might seem like the beginings of a new dynasty could just be the flavor of the season. Gasol and Kobe could eventually feud. Bynum could never return to decent form. Fish could finally feel the age and you could have a tough time finding a replacement. Twixt the cup and the lip, there’s many a slip.

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

VWolf – bringing the Shakespeare. That’s not often seen in these parts.

Nicely done.

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just glad the Spurs can't play the "disrespect" angle

There doesn’t seem to be much disrespecting going on in the media (well, you can take their predictions as “disrespect” but even they would tell you they’re not all that sure of the outcome, but were forced to make a pick).

I’m not sure why some Spurs fans would say that us Lakers fans expect you to be “frightened of the juggernaut that is the mighty Lakers”. If anything, the Lakers are admitting that you must go through the defending champs to win, and giving them proper consideration.

Spurs fans seem to be a confident bunch to me, especially for a 3 seed facing a 1 seed. Would it be so hard to admit that the Lakers are a formidable foe? I can see either side winning this one, although of course, I will be rooting for the Lakers.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing that’s a great point. The Lakers are formidable for sure, but that doesn’t make me any less confident that the Spurs will win the series. I’m sure you feel the same way about the Lakers. That’s why sports is so great, so many different viewpoints and I enjoy discussing them. Damn, is it game time yet?

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 21, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 seed facing a 1 seed eh?

They were 1 game apart. If Manu was healthy and SA gave a crap (they came out and said they were more concerned with health than seeding) and they won the game at the end of the season vs. LA, they would be the #1 seed, LA would be the 3 seed. So I wouldn’t give that much credence.

by Nixiack on May 21, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Home Court Seems Important Now, Doesn't It?

Or do you think the Spurs just like to do things the hard way?

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not necessarily. They’ve won chips with homecourt through out and they’ve won chips w/o. A truly great team doesn’t rely on homecourt. I remember the 2001 Lakers, they didn’t have homecourt throughout and they beat hell out the Spurs that season.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 21, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know, it may help to be on the road ...

Because I think that the first team to lose a home game is going to be in trouble.

So, say Spurs lose both games, there’s still no reason to panic for the Spurs, but if the Lakers lose one of the first two, uh oh… so it’s almost as if all the pressure is on the Lakers to win the first two, while a win would just be a bonus for the Spurs.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This aint new baby.

Since 1999 the Spurs have played in 28 playoff series and there have been only 3 series where we haven’t won on the road. 25 out of 28 series the Spurs have taken one or more on the road for a combined 40 road playoff wins. I love our chances.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 21, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Health?

If we had Bynum and Ariza all season (our 3rd and 6th best players respectively) this wouldn’t even be an issue.

by pslakerfan on May 21, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re assuming that LA would have been able to incorporate Gasol onto the team and Odom and Bynum and Ariza without any repercussions or issues

I’m not saying that there would have been issues. I am saying that you can’t assume that there wouldn’t have been. Each team had the season that they had and nothing can be changed from the past season.

IFs looking forward to this series—sure. But IFs looking back to the past regular season … c’mon. Nobody’s going to win that argument

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You talk up Ariza a lot, and I do think he is a nice player, but when he was healthy he only started 3 games, and he was used fairly sparingly in some others. Do you think he has earned Phil’s trust so quickly? You know how PJ likes him some veterans.

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ariza

Looked very fluid within the Lakers system, in that he played good defense, and on offense he didn’t need the ball, he was very good moving without it, and he even made some good reads when he did get the ball, passing to cutters.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ariza’s a player. Trust me. He is going to be a All-NBA defender in the near future.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 21, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but that near future does not include this series.

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh no. He won’t be a factor in this series, but he’s gonna be hell for a while. Dude is only like what 22-23? Damn the Lakers are gonna be STACKED the next 4-5 years.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 21, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well they do have some contract work cut out for them to carry it out to 4-5 years.

Ariza, Bynum, and Odom all have only 1 season left.

Kobe and Gasol have 3 seasons left after this one.

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but Jerry Buss doesn’t care about the luxury tax. They are going to have it worked out. I’m not going to look at the salary structure and all that, but due to my cynical nature I have to believe that the NBA i.e. David Stern, this team will be a factor as long as Kobe is still a big money ticket. Especially after the fiasco with Shaq.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 21, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Playing the disrespect angle

Amazing, that really would be hilarious. Seeing TD hoisting some trophy, with a scowl on his face as he says, “We knew it was us against the world. Nobody believed in us. Everyone was saying we couldn’t do it. In between calling us a dynasty and the team of the decade, lots of guys wrote stories about how we were too old and slow. And someone even predicted that we would lose against some of the teams we played. But we didn’t. And now we repeated. In your face!”

I don’t think that that any of the Spurs are particularly motivated about proving anyone in the media wrong.

That said, most of the guys here probably would echo your sentiments of “I can see either side winning this one, although of course, I will be rooting for the Lakers Spurs.”

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great point

I find the “arrogance” of this blog to be a little strange. Maybe unexpected is the right word. I put arrogance in quotes because I am not sure that is the right word. Maybe myopic is better. Who knows? I guess you have earned the right to be arrogant, but I just hope that arrogance doesn’t turn into a bunch of lame excuses when and if we win.

by pslakerfan on May 21, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One man’s ironclad logic is another’s lame excuse.

What kinds of things are you referring to as “arrogance”? I think most of the posters here are acknowledging that LA won’t be tough to beat, but that we think the Spurs can do it.

Just not sure what it is that you’re seeing.

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man that was a fast response!!!

Apparently I am seeing a typo, because you just said “we here are acknowledging that LA “WONT” be tough to beat”.

I guess we are all seeing things through our own homer glasses because all I see are posts about how we can’t contain anyone on your team, and you can contain all of our players.

It’s hard to believe we should even play the games. Spurs in 0. Yeah…...

Gotta get going to Staples, see you later….

by pslakerfan on May 21, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup, that was a typo, shoulda been

”... that LA will be touch to beat”

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

arrrgh —not even going to try again

I think you understand me

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One those days

It’s ok, I walked into a glass sliding door yesterday.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You also said yesterday...

But the Spurs winning the series in 6 would require them to win at least 2 games in L.A. It would seem more realistic for them to win in 7. I’m just sayin’.

by Amazing_Happens on May 20, 2008 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 21, 2008 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes I did

And I was wrong. Thank you for bringing up my past mistakes. Please, now post one time you were wrong to balance it out.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was helping you out

I thought maybe there was a correlation between walking into a glass door and then making that statement. Concussion?

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 21, 2008 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uuuhhh, I’m forgiving you as a newbie for not knowing this, but CMoney doesn’t make mistakes. He just doesn’t. Never has, as it pertains to the team of the decade. We all bask in his glow, and you’d be best not to take that tone with “The Money” again. He’ll throw you a bone and post when and if he’s merciful. Not until then though.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha. God I love this site. Thanks for having my back.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 21, 2008 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still wonder where you are seeing these posts. Granted, fans here aren’t bowing down at the golden and purple altar, but they aren’t saying this series is going to be easy.

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Gold and Purple Altar

The Spurs will bowing to it tonight!

Just kidding. Man, I want the game to start. Good thing it’s an early one for us. Don’t know if it’s earlier than other Spurs games, too.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clarification

The 6 PM PST start time is earlier than the usual 7:30 PM PST start time for Lakers games.

Is it earlier than the usual Spurs home game start time, too?

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup, it’s earlier b/c you guys are east coast

and b/c there aren’t any eastern conference games to play before this one, like there were in the 2nd round

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They usually start thier games around 7-8 PM CST, which is about 5-6 PM PST.

by Nixiack on May 21, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great

So the Spurs will feel right at home, while the Lakers will be off their rhythm.

Just kidding, no excuses!

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I’m sure that the Spurs will “feel right at home” after having to sleep in a plane (or getting no sleep) after G7 in N.O.

You’re right, though. No excuses!

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm ready to admit the Spurs are the better team IF

They win the series.

BIG caveat – no new or aggravation of existing injuries to the following: Kobe, Odom, Pau, Fisher. And no suspensions.

Gotta have my bases covered.

I will accept the same from the Spurs, with the four players being – Duncan, ParKAIR, Manu, and hmm I don’t know you choose – Bowen?

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny spelling for Frenchy

Does “ParKAIR” reference anything in particular?

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I just like to remind myself he is French

I also like to yell “TIMMY” a la South Park, and “GINOBLEEEE” a la the Chuckster.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re a Laker fan and you have your own special ways of saying our big three’s names?

Hmmmmm. Closet Spur fan perchance?

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Just Give Respect where it's due

Some more goodness from Triangle Offense Guru Tex Winter:

"They’re good, man," the 86-year-old guru, Jackson’s longtime mentor, says of the veteran Spurs. "They can control the tempo of the game. That’s their strength. They’re very balanced. Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen, they all present their own sort of problems.

"We’re just gonna have to outscore them some way or another. I hope we can. It’s not gonna be easy. But it’s gonna be interesting. I’m sure we can score on ‘em, but I’m not sure we can score enough."

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You need to refer to Manu as Potato Sacks from now on.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 21, 2008 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, knowing that you’re also yelling TTIIIMMMMMEEHHH during a regular season SPURS game is nice. I don’t hate you half as much anymore.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but

I’m only yelling that when he misses or fouls.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wink, wink

Of course you are, AH, of course you are.

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually I think the only people coming back next year/signed next year are Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Bowen. Just about everyone else comes off the books from what I’ve heard, but I could be wrong. If that’s the case, resign Udoka, possibly Thomas, and get a good bench (should they win it all again this year, you could be looking at the Lakers of ‘04, where some good vets who are getting up in age will be most willing to come play for the title)....so who knows.

by Nixiack on May 21, 2008 11:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

People under contract for next year:
Duncan, Manu, Bruce, and Tony
Also, Oberto, Bonner, Barry, Vaughn, Manhinmi

Coming off the books: Thomas, Finley, Horry, Stoudamire, Johnson (DerMarr)

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 21, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Real GM says Vaughn has another year, ESPN says he’s done after this season. Which source is right? I hope ESPN is correct, but I kind of doubt they are. Regardless, the Spurs could afford to waive him if they found a better replacement.

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 12:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The JV has a player option for next year.

I consider Draft Express the source to use.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 21, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great Management

Looking at that, I do have to say I admire the Spurs Front Office for the way they’ve managed the salaries and roster. Except for letting Luis Scola go, I think the execs have done well for the team. I know everyone loves to point out the miraculous Pau trade, but that has made people forget that the Lakers traded away Caron Butler for Kwame Brown, and couldn’t find a starting point guard not named Smush Parker for the past two years.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 12:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Although it’s debated around here, I think the dump of Scola was most likely because Pop finally decided (after several looks at him over the years) that he was just not going to be able to play Spurs defense. While you’ll probably hate this NO-recap article which has a heavy dose of HOMERism to it, there’s a bit about the defense which was revealing.

As I see it, if a player isn’t going to be able to be in the right place and make the right read/rotation/switch etc, then Pop just refuses to use him. Even if he’s an offensive juggernaut.

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think a lot of people (including Kobe) realize that the Lakers management has not done a great job lately. They were really saved by two fortunate (for them) events.

The Gasol trade was ludicrous. Memphis could have shopped him around and gotten quite a bit more for him, but for some reason they jumped at the Lakers early offer. I find it hard to credit the Lakers management with that. It is more due to the incompetence or apathy of the Memphis management.

Of course, we all know what happened with Fisher. A tragedy for his daughter and his family, turned out to be a boon for the Lakers. Again, it was just happenstance that brought Fisher to LA.

I will credit them for getting Ariza and drafting Bynum, but that still doesn’t put them in the A grade as management. I would rank them at C+, but luck as given them an A grade team. Imagine if Gasol hadn’t fallen into their laps, and Farmar (or some available veteran) were the starting point guard right now? Would the Lakers have made an 8 seed? Would they have made it past the first round?

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Gasol and Farmar?

Yeah, pretty much 8th seed or no playoffs. They wouldn’t be getting out of the first round.

The thing that kills me is when people try to use that as a way to knock Kobe. No player ever won anything without great teammates. This includes Tim Duncan.

I agree VWolf, a lot of fortunate events happened for the Lakers. But that’s life. I’ll take it. Chance events happen all the time, you just tend to remember the ones you were prepared to take advantage of. Imagine that some other bottom of the seeding playoff team lucked out and landed Gasol, instead of the Lakers? Would they be contenders now?

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depends on the playoff team

As in Enver? No, still not. No D. Golden State? Maybe, but no D. Dallas? HA. Pure isolation team, and Gasol thrives on a team environment, not “let’s give it to X player and watch him do his thing….” Now if he had gone to the east…to say…Cleveland? Oh yeah. And I know that after the Lakers basically fleeced the Grizz out of Gasol and the whole league was up in arms about it (starting with Pop), the Grizz started asking WAY too much for thier other prospects/players, and no one bit. After Jerry West left, the Grizz upper management just sucked. Of course, given Jerry West’s ties to the Lakers and the man-crush he and Kobe have for each other, conspiracy theorists abound were thinking that he told them “Oh hell yeah, K Brown is the shiznit! Get him fast!! He’s worth 10 Gasols! Yeah!!” Haha.

At least Kobe has finally learned that no, he can’t do it all himself with scrubs. No team has won a championship with just 1 all star. It needs 2/3.

by Nixiack on May 21, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another misconception

I don’t think Kobe wanted to “do it all himself with scrubs”. He just didn’t want to do it with fat, lazy, undedicated, unmotivated, bullying, fun-loving Shaq.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I appreciate your objectivity here. But I’ve always respected TD so much BECAUSE he’s made others great (or greater) around him. Kobe doesn’t seem to have this quality of making others better. Odom, Gasol and fish were already at a level of talent similar or equal to where they are currently. The only exception is Bynum, and he’s a HUGE question mark so far. We’ll see what next year shows. I respect the talent you guys have and the quality of your team, but not as much as I do teams that develop talent. It’s the difference between quality by acquisition and quality by maturation, and it’s what I love about San Antonio.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Making others better" is so nebulous

I’ve always hated that, especially when they would say that about Nash. What does that mean? They have better stats? They do things they couldn’t do before? How do you know how good someone is independent of other players?

Now I can tell you that players’ productivity has gone up when playing with Kobe. Odom’s FG% is higher with the Lakers than with any other team, even before the Gasol trade. He “made” Kwame and Smush starters on a playoff team. Gasol was shooting something like 50% FG at Memphis, and with LA it’s 58%. Not sure if that’s an example of making someone “better”, but they seem to win more with the Lakers.

I think that Kobe could “make” Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili look just as good on the Lakers as they do on San Antonio. That’s not even a knock on Duncan, that’s saying those guys are studs in their own right.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, now you’re just talking crazy. No way TP or Manu is the star they each are now, on Team Kobe. Not a chance. Kobe is the leader of your offense, hands down. Fish may bring the ball to the half-court line occasionally, but it typically immediately hits #8/24’s hands. This wouldn’t be effective for players like Manu or Tony.

And Kobe made Smush and Kwame starters?? Uh, I think that was Phil and Dr.B and Kups, in setting a lineup and not having any other options. By that reasoning Ray Allen “made” Jerome James into a playoff starting center.

You know someone is good with the greatness of another player and not without by watching Amare without Nash. Chandler without Paul. Boozer without DWill. Everyone without TMac. Carrots without cake. Should I keep going? This one is simple. And I’m not saying that any of these players are NOT good without the other, just better. Clearly. Who’s made “better” by Kobe’s skills? Other than law firms across the country, not one player on the lakers roster.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, Sarge

Lay any smack down lately? Lovin’ it.

Gotta go now. See you in the thread tonight.

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 21, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can tell you how many playoff games Pau has won without Kobe

Zero.

And he’s 8-2 with him. I know, it’s the whole team, but same thing applies to your examples, SMA.

I look at it this way: I play a lot of pickup basketball, I’ve played with good players, who have made life easier for me, and bad players who have made it hard to win. No one has made me a better player but my coaches and myself. Unless you mean that Timmy is a good coach. In which case, I say Avery Johnson was the best at making his teammates better.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Know why Pau has won more games with Kobe? Wait for it. Hold onto something, cause I’m bout to get all crazy in this house.

Because Kobe is better than Bobby Jackson. PERIOD.

I also am a native of the playground. And some players make me better by their court vision, their passes and looks, their ability to draw more coverage, etc. I see what you’re saying, but don’t agree. Some players are so good that they make others better. If my star was incapable of that, I would likely share your sentiment.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here’s a quick completely unexplainable example using YOUR example:

Timmy draws an enormous amount of attention. A TWO-time MVP will do that sometimes. As he draws the double (because you have to double him, or he will destroy you) or sometimes triple; typically one immortal named Manu is left wide open for an outside jumper, which he converts. This open shot would never had been possible had it not been for Duncan. Timmy makes Manu a player with higher stats, and makes his job easier in this instance. Just one example. If you haven’t already recognized the absurdity of your position and bowed to my glory, I will provide more.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And how does this not apply to Kobe?

I believe that Kobe draws double teams. Triple teams? Er, I don’t know about that, even for Duncan …

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Luke Walton basically has free reign

Because of the attention Kobe draws.

Yet, Walton only sporadically takes advantage of it because he should be coming off the bench in some Euro league.

And Pau and Lamar totally benefit from Kobe’s presence.

I’m not arguing with you that Duncan does that, too. And it’s different because Duncan is a center/forward. But then, Kobe doesn’t need someone else to throw the ball into him to create something.

Ok, I’ll be off. Talk to you Spurs fans tomorrow. And GO LOS LAKERS!

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude. I got called up to Denver for a work meeting (with a coworker who’s a laker fan, btw) and gonna be catching the game here. He’s a good guy and an actually objective fan, so I won’t have to kill him. But…. no live thread for me and most importantly, no creme soda initiation. I’m sick about it because I was so looking forward to it. But I’m there for Game 2, I promise. You’ll still have my support in spirit, just not in flesh since I’m forced to be away from home now. Please forgive, JRW.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So here's my list

Of players who(m?) Kobe has made it easier to operate in a game, including, but not limited to: Shaq, Fisher, Vujacic, Walton, Odom, Gasol, Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Bynum, Turiaf …

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I seem to remember

Manu looking pretty good on the Argentinian team, and when Duncan was out. He had some bad games, too. But point is, how much “better” does Duncan make him. Of course Manu plays better when Duncan is in the lineup. Duncan and Manu are winning players, that’s all. And much as the media would try to make you the contrary, Kobe is a winning player. Manu and Tony would be just fine playing with Kobe.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Garnett?

The Pau Gasol trade was nothing compared to the Garnett trade. Talk about a conspiracy. Strange that Pop did not have a problem with sending Garnett to the East in a trade for three apples and an orange.

Memphis got huge cap space (Kwame), Javaris Crittenton (last draft’s #2 PG), Marc Gasol (best player in europe right now), and draft picks. In a few years we will see how that all plays out, but “ludicrous” come on. The Ainge conspiracy, that was “ludicrous”.

by pslakerfan on May 21, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn’t talking about the Garnett trade.

Are you really telling me that Memphis got a good deal out of the Gasol trade? Come on, just take off the blinders. Marc Gasol is nothing like his brother. What makes you think he is the best player in Europe? He was voted MVP of the Spanish League, and that is a very competitive European league, but that does not make him the best player in all of Europe. Regardless, it doesn’t mean he will be half the player that his brother is. He just is too slowfooted and heavy. He isn’t nearly as athletic.

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Granted, that trade was unbiased as well. But we’re not talking about a fantasy bball league. Three apples and an orange for Garnett is still not as bad as some pogs and an Olive Garden free bread certificate for Gasol. You probably shouldn’t even go down this road since many in the league (read: all) questioned the Gasol trade. No one blames you, because everyone wishes they had the same chance; but don’t try to pass it off as legit and even.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Garnett??

Gar-not? When did he come into the picture? heh :) Actually, the Timberwolves also cleared tons of cap space, got Gerald Green, who avg’ed 10/2 in Boston (and who Boston was loathe to give up) and also got Al Jefferson, who in this season avg. 21/11/-nearly 2 blocks, these were the 2 starting people on Boston’s frontcourt. So they got :

Al Jefferson - 20/10 guy for the forseeable future
Gerald Green - 10/2 guy who everyone THOUGHT would be a superstar, traded to Houston
Ryan Gomes—turned out to be a 12/10 guy next to Al Jefferson
18-23 (!!!) million in cap space with Garnett’s contract coming off the books
2 1st round picks

That sounds like a decent trade to me. 1 year left on Garnett’s contract, everyone KNEW he was gone anyways, and the Wolves wanted to send him somewhere he’d be ok with….and they got a lot of cap space, 2 possible (1 guaranteed) star in return that shores up thier frontcourt, and 2 1st round picks.

Lakers gave Grizz :
Kwame Brown : A bust the size of Ryan Leaf proportions. A career 5/4 guy. He couldn’t even crack the BENCH of the Grizz after getting him!!
Javaris Crittenton : A (at the time) 5/.08(assist) guy that couldn’t even crack the 2nd string of LA’s team.(look it up, he played almost 18-20 min a game for Grizz, 5 min tops for LA). He panned out to a 5/1(assist) guy
Marc Gasol : Nice prize, but his team (Akasvayu Girona) is pulling a Luis Scola on the Grizz and are saying “Oh yeah, you can bring him over, if you pay us LOTS of $$...” just like they did with the Spurs. With the Grizz strapped like crazy, it will be a miracle before he comes over.
2 1st round picks (2008, and 2010)-However - the Lakers will get the Grizz’s 2nd round picks in 2009 and 2010. So, that kinda balances the picks out.
Cap space : 9 mil with Kwame coming off the books.

So honestly, if anything this one trade only alleviates what is actually known to most of the NBA as one of the worst front offices in recent memory. You get rid of Shaq, because of Kobe, yes..but still…and trade Caron Butler for Kwame Brown, can’t get much better than Smush Paker for years, Luke Walton has his moments, but so then again does Morris Peterson, and you aren’t saying much about hiim. And they are starting Radmonivic because of his contract that they signed him to so that they could get him from the Clippers. Because of that, they HAVE to start him.

If it wasn’t for the Grizz’ incompetence, and Fisher having issues and returning to LA, this year(and maybe next depending on the recovery of Bynum) it would be “well….it CAN be good….” I’d consider the Lakers lucky more than anything.

by Nixiack on May 21, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes lucky is better than good

The Gasol trade just came into the Lakers’ harbor.

“Fortune brings in some boats that are not steered”.

by Amazing_Happens on May 21, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Real talk indeed. The Spurs lucked into getting Tim Duncan.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 21, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

very true

The Spurs lucked out the most of anyone, with Robinson going down that year and adding Duncan. But after that, check the other thread(on rebuilding the Spurs)...they had drafted-not in order- Ginobili, Parker, Barbosa, Mahinmi, Scola, etc…. Thier front office(the Spurs) just rocks.

by Nixiack on May 21, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

great article! buckle your seat belts kids, its time for another wild ride! GO SPURS!

PtR + FIN = LOVE

moognish

yeah, the spurs are boss

by moognish on May 21, 2008 12:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I definitely feel less nervous coming in to this series than the Suns or Hornets series. I believe.

I know our team will not be intimidated at all by playing in LA. Comfy is an excellent word to describe our play in game 7. We looked right at home.

This series is ripe for TP to go off.

by beachwood on May 21, 2008 1:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good job again on the radio broadcast, Michael. I’m glad you used the line about Kobe/free throw attempts. Those announcers are very cocky. Do they ever make a correct prediction? They didn’t get the ‘sexy’ series that they wanted, and now the ‘boring’ Spurs are going to make them look even sillier. Keep their feet to the fire…

by 4Him on May 21, 2008 2:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

great recap

as always.

i don’t think that the western conference finals should have been any other way. It will be a great series and history is being chased by 2 amazing players. I can’t wait to see what happens.

by staves27 on May 21, 2008 4:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Really good pre-game thread, guys. Lots of good conversation and thoughts. Its getting me pumped for the series.

Allez Spurs!

by JustinBK on May 21, 2008 5:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Question for you loyal spurs followers...

Hi guys. Laker fan here but I’ve been reading this blog the last week and it appears to be the best quality spurs blog out there. Like PSlaker and others, I enjoy getting perspective from the opposing fans. I’ve decided to join in on the fun.

As I see it, from the Spurs perspective, I believe the key to this series will be the play of Tony parker. If Tony is aggressively penetrating the lane and shredding the Laker interior defense, then I think it will be very difficult if not impossible for the Lakers to come out on top this series. As much as I love this Laker squad, I’m very much a realist and it seems like for the last several years, these Laker teams (present one included) are susceptible to fast guards who can get in the lane.

Here’s my question. As I recall back in 04’ when these two teams played, the first two games, Parker played like a man possessed and seemed to score on driving layups at will. When the series shifted back to LA, it seemed like LA collectively decided that they were going to let anyone except Parker beat them, and they packed the lanes and knocked Parker on his ass whenever he even thought about driving. From that moment on the entire completion of the series changed. After a few hard fouls where Parker was legitimately sent to the ground (not like all his other drives where he ALWAYS falls to the ground after a layup attempt for God knows what reason. Referee pity I guess?) Parker started playing differently. He looked far more hesitant to drive the lane and without the chaos his drives create, the Spurs offense was far less effective.

For you guys who have followed the Spurs religiously for the last few years, how much has Parker matured since then? Honestly? If someone challenges him on his drives and knocks his butt to the ground, is he going to shy away the next time like he did in 04’? After all, the guy IS European and we all know European ball players are known for their skill and not exactly their testicular fortitude. (i.e. Senor Gasol) Anyway, just wanted your input. Great blog. Looking forward to reading more.

by RCollier27 on May 21, 2008 5:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You’ve discovered our hidden fear. Yes, Tony’s matured and developed amazingly well since ‘04. He even has an interesting little anomoly that we call “a jumper” now (be watching for that). But, unlike many on the SPURS roster, doesn’t take being put on his ass well. Most all of us are pretty concerned that what you said will happen, with TP torching you for several games before the Dali decides to rough him up and close the lane. If this happens, we’re gonna struggle.

Welcome to PtR, glad to have you.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 21, 2008 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ever since Eva came into the picture, Tony’s been “taking it to the hoop” every night. He’s gotten used to bangin bodies and being thrown to the floor. Now he scores with ease and has a smoke afterwards… Thank you Eva.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 21, 2008 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very good point.....

Although a 90 pound desperate housewife probably doesn’t lay the wood quite like a 260 pound Ronny Turiaf. If the Zenmaster does indeed decide to “rough” up the frenchman, I can guarantee you it’ll be Ronny in there giving the hard foul. As much success as D-Will had in the last series, Turiaf sent him sprawling several times on clean rejections. And D-will is a strong dude. I’d hate to see what a collision between him and Parker would look like.

by RCollier27 on May 21, 2008 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would probably look like a shower scene from the HBO series OZ. For the love of God Tony, don’t drop the soap.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 21, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tony took some hard hits in both of the last series and he seemed to stay in attack mode. I think he has grown up a bit since 2004. In fact I would bet that he is relishing a chance to atone for his play in that series.

As well as the jumper, Tony has a nice little tear drop that he will throw at you.

by VWolf on May 21, 2008 6:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Aaron/Michael (that’s a nickname for Stampler), well done w/the write-up and the radio. Youza stud

by Gino20 on May 22, 2008 9:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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