At The Hive's Thoughts On The Horry Foul

Please, this guy is must have been watching the game through his Hugo suit. West wasn’t totally out of the play. Manu was 5 feet in front of him on the same side of the court and West jumped to make a play on the ball. If, in fact, as this guy says Manu had already gotten by his defender (which I don’t necessarily agree with) then Robert SHOULD screen West because Manu would then have a layup.

Blah, blah, blah. Whatever. I don’t think there is anything classless about Horry’s foul even if he knew West had an injury. If it was that bad, then West shouldn’t have been on the court anyway. As Jeff Van Gundy said - I think it was Jeff -, it was no different than the screen Chandler laid on Parker to start Game 5.

As for the fans being classless, no argument there. Anybody, and it certainly wasn’t everybody, who was celebrating was in the wrong. On the other hand, it is the unfortunate part of sports in our country that the other team too often gets painted as villains and West is certainly tops on our list in this series. When the villain is taken down people tend to celebrate without really thinking first.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 16, 2008 10:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Horry foul

I totally agree with AusTechSpur . Horry is not a classless player. He doesn’t have a history of hurting players over his 15 or 16 year career. He’s a proven winner who either shoots to win or commits a hard foul to win. I don’t totally agree with what he did to Nash last year but sometimes a player has to step up and make a hard foul. The Hornets players are pushing and shoving and fouling hard but no complaints like this. Look at all those screens (Moving picks) Chandler sets up on TP. You’ll see that TC swipes at Parker a lot trying to make some incidental contact. Look at Ely when he pushed Oberto down. Look at when Wells clothes lined Bowen on one of the first plays in the series. Come on now the Spurs are being man handled by the Hornets and now this. I want to see more physical play from the Spurs and not the Horry chanting from the their fans.

James Stewart

by BigDaddyStewDog on May 16, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i didn’t think of this but you are entirely correct. they are being far more physical and the media is just playing this horry “foul” up because it is relevant.

i stand by that it was VERY unclassy for the attending spurs fans to chant “horry” when west was on the ground, but that is the minority. i guarentee 95% of the stadium was not chanting, our fanbase is too respectful for that. 95% of the standium was cheering when west got up off the floor.

count that.

What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)

the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post

by Hamer_SpursFan on May 17, 2008 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don’t get this. west jumped into horry. he was backpedaling and had no idea where he was going, and it’s horry’s job - and the job of any spurs player - to keep west from blocking shots or getting rebound position. i wouldn’t be surprised if horry had to keep his forearms up just to brace for the contact of west slamming into his formaldehyde skin.

personally, i agree with van gundy. the play looked like a no-call.

that said, i hope west is fully healthy for game 7. no excuses.

the moderator over at hornets247.com takes a more balanced approach. it’s a hard screen, he says, but nothing out of the ordinary and nothing fans should be riled up about.

you ain't a beauty but hey you're all right.

by kalone on May 16, 2008 10:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

please, this was not intentional. yes horry leaned in a bit, because he didn’t want to get run over by west who wasn’t looking where the hell he was going. if horry didn’t set the screen manu would have been double teamed by his defender and west at the corner. horry is not our go to guy, manu is. why the hell would we pass it to horry when he isn’t on the 3 point line? he isn’t a low post guy.

just like the commentators said in game 5 when chandler kneed parker in the tailbone on that high screen, duncan should have communicated that chandler was there. if anything, someone should have communicated to west that horry was there so he didn’t get blindsided by a screen.

get out of here with that intentional crap, you are sounding like the suns fans last year when they knew horry knocked nash into the table on purpose to get diaw and amare off the bench so they’d get suspended. yeah i know, this sounds stupid too.

What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)

the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post

by Hamer_SpursFan on May 16, 2008 10:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

ummmmm, dont hornets live in a nest rather than a hive?

after seeing it again a few times, i am having some problems with what rob did.

1 yes, i think it was intentional. he definitely wanted to give west a shot. i also think that he was well aware of who was coming and what his injury condition was. that said, the whole thing was probably within the bounds of basketball law. bob got a foul and he deserved one, but not sure how much more penalty could have been justified. 2 calling it a screen also seems a bit of a stretch to me. who was he trying to screen for? manu was still a few feet away. and dont you screen the driver’s man instead of your own man? i guess its close enough that rob could have been trying to wall off a driving lane for manu , but i cant say that i believe that 100%. 3 was it a cheap shot? im not so sure how cheap, maybe a little – but probably not worthy of a suspension or flagrant or anything like that. this is playoff basketball after all. hot and get hit.

the bottom line for me is that i probably not have done this myself, so i’m not gonna jump up to bob’s defense too much. if you watch him close enough, he has a number of borderline type plays throughout the course of any game – and i dont mean just the nash thing from last year either.

i also think that this site would be going bonkers had chandler or west done the same to one of our guys.

by bones on May 16, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Umm..

Chandler DID do that to one of our key players.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick.2g on May 16, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um, Chandler did do this to Tony in Game 5. And got called for a foul.

But, it was my impression that Rob was thinking he was walling of a lane for Manu. I do think he tried to bang him but I don’t think he expected West to jump.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 16, 2008 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If the Spurs get by the Hornets...

Do we bring RoHo to screen Kobe? Or maybe hack at that injured pinkie?

I’m a little conflicted about the play as well. Here’s a link to it on YouTube (1:47):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfQZHMU5qAw

Watching it, it looks like Ginobili has shaken Pargo and is looking to drive baseline. West is backpedaling to try to cut off the baseline when Horry decides to screen West. It looks to me like the correct basketball play; if Ginobili continues to the basket, he would have had an open lane. He was probably expecting RoHo to flash to the paint and was looking to pass, which is why he pulled up, but since Horry wasn’t available, he threw it crosscourt instead. If West doesn’t crumple to the ground, I don’t think anyone would have noticed the play at all.

That said, Horry certainly puts some extra gusto into the screen, and sort of leads with his shoulder and really plants his elbows into the small of West’s back. I can only speculate that Horry was thinking he get 2 birds with one stone (or as Chuck Norris/Manu Ginobili would, 2 stones with one bird): free Ginobili for a layup AND get a nice, clean, legal shot in on their ailing big man.

In the end, I think the contact was actually pretty minor. If West’s condition is fragile enough that such a play would cause injury, then he was bound to be injured sooner or later.

Catch the Spurs Spirit! It's a Fast-breakin' Fiesta!

by tomasito on May 16, 2008 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Good replay. The more I watch the more I think it is unfortunate for West that he jumped. If he doesn’t jump there, and I don’t think Horry expected him to, Robert hits him shoulder to shoulder or shoulder to upper back. Robert definitely leaned into it a little and added something but it wouldn’t have been noticeable if West hadn’t jumped or had a bad back. IMO, naturally.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 16, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think any player who knows you have to set a screen on a ginormous man (AKA Mr. West) knows you’re going to have to lean into a bit just to slow down his momentum. You can’t set a screen on West straight up you’ll get trampled and knocked outa the play. So yes, the pick was intentional, the harm was not.

If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a non-working cat.

by Windex40 on May 16, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i’ll buy these arguments, but at the end of the day i still think rob knew what he was doing, which is enough for me to not ike it. i do think that what rob did was akin to that borderline hit on the QB in football that probably draws a roughing flag.

that said, its over and done with. i’ll move on now with this final opinion : what rob did wasnt nearly as bad as juwan howard taking out derek anderson in 2000 or 2001.

by bones on May 16, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hah, funny you brought up Derek Anderson. I did with a buddy of mine today in email. Nobody seems to remember that one.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 16, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i do. da was playing so well then too. fuck juwan howard

by htownspur on May 16, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i’ll never forget that. he also threw manu into the sideline seats in his rookie year. i’ll never forget that either.

who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder? there are some who call me ... tim.

by ptruser on May 16, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention multiple questionable FFs on DRob over the time that their careers overlapped. I don’t ever remember JHow being thought of as ‘dirty’ by the pundits then.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 16, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll say it again: if West doesn’t go down in a heap, then it’s not even a foul. It’s just a strong block-out that nobody even notices.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick.2g on May 16, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There wasn’t anything malicious about that play. Horry was just playing old school old man basketball. People get indignant over the most insignificant shit….

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 16, 2008 12:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

In those highlights I noticed that immediately after Udoka’s block, as the action begins to shift in the other direction, CP did another one of his punk moves, running right into the back of Bowen [with dramatic effect].

by 4Him on May 16, 2008 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I saw that too and nobody mentioned it. Bruce did kindof sell it, but CP obviously went out of his way to blindside forearm shiver Bruce. I think it’s pretty telling that such a punk team didn’t rush over to stand up for West and flex nuts to RoHo. That showed me that even they knew it wasn’t malicious and just a standard basketball play. We’ve been the less physical team BY FAR in this series, and now they’re upset?? Sorry about your guy, but welcome to the Playoffs.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 16, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

IME!

that block was the hilight of my night.

by efantich on May 16, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The second forearm was a bit exaggerated but Bowen, but I don’t think Bruce has the ability to suddenly rotate 35 degrees around his center of gravity in midair. They were both completely legit calls, even if the second one was a BIT ticky-tacky. But CP3 has gotten away with that forearm so much that I can’t feel like it’s unfair that he got caught twice in a row.
And the offensive foul Duncan drew on West? That was a textbook charge. The fact that it all happened at once might suck for NO fans, but they were all reasonable calls.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick.2g on May 16, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah Dunc played 1st team D all night. I hope he has that same intensity Monday. I would love to see a 2003 performance. 20-20 would be awesome.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 16, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only one that wasn’t reasonable (just should have been a no-call) was the one where Manu and West bumped into each other. The rest all looked legit.

by VWolf on May 16, 2008 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess Horry should have just pulled up a chair for West and made sure he was comfortable. Maybe ask him that if he wanted inside position to just ask him and Horry would move out of the way for him.

That was an old school pick being set. deal the fuck with you fuckin crybabies. If a guy is out there playing hurt are we supposed to take it easy on him? We’re in a fucking elimination game.

by beachwood on May 16, 2008 12:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thank you!

Finally someone with some sense, sees the truthiness of the situation. That wasn’t even a hard foul. As far as the fans chanting Horry, it makes a much sense as the Hornets fans booing us.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?-- Bluto , Animal House

by Spursfanindallas on May 16, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, it doesn’t make any sense BECAUSE SOMEBODY WAS HURT.

by sungo on May 16, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree with that. i think it was pretty classless and stupid on the part of our fans

by htownspur on May 16, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m still pretty upset about that too. I’ve cussed other fan-bases for doing the same for a long time (‘05 in Seattle when TD tweaked his ankle and went down) and it’s always showed me that fans are often somewhat of a reflection of the team’s culture. I always pride myself as a SPURS fan, being the team of character and honor. I know everyone has bad fans, but the enormous amount of people all chanting Horry’s name was a definate stain on that culture, and it was disgusting. Cheering a player for a good play is one thing, but cheering a player whose only contribution was setting a hard LEGAL and non-malicious pick leading to an injury is disgusting. Those in attendance that participated should be ashamed, because that is certainly not who we are. I’d really like to see someone in the SA media publicly and nationally condemn this.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 16, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

First of all

He was hurt before the game, Horry did not single handedly misalign his disc. I am sorry the fans chanted but its seriously not the worse thing to occur. I was upset when Horry hip checked Nash, but this…not so much. Sorry.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?-- Bluto , Animal House

by Spursfanindallas on May 16, 2008 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clean play, only thing I’ll say was terrible was the crowd’s reaction. For that, I think all SA true fans are disgusted(me as well.)

West was hurt way before this game. If you watched the postgame interview from Game 5, Paul went up and clapped West’s shoulders, and West grimaced and looked like he was going to almost pass out. If he’s hurting that bad, then Horry’s pick didn’t do that much to him to start with. It’s the NO’s coaches fault that with 8 minutes left, and down 20+, that they didn’t pull West from the game earlier. They could have put in Wright, left the others in, and still contended. Besides, West came back down to his usual performance (4-10)...check the other box scores, he was never better than 13-23(game 1). Other games : 2/11 (game 2) 10-19 (game 3), 4-15 (game 4). He had a rediculous game 5, other than that he’s been pretty held in check, and they could have easily inserted someone else in there for the same production. NO coaches failed more than anything, at least that’s what I see. They should have pulled him a lot earlier.

by Nixiack on May 16, 2008 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree, there’s no way horry knew that manu was going to throw the skip instead of drive, which means he didn’t know west was going to jump. as ATS, mentioned earlier, chandler did the same thing to tony game 5. at the time, i honestly thought it was a clean screen and chandler shouldn’t have been called for the foul. maybe his elbows were a little high but it’s the freaking playoffs.

by Csingle10 on May 16, 2008 12:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Looked intentional to me

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 16, 2008 12:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Intentional in what sense? The intention to hurt him or the intention to screen him. I mean, clearly, he meant to make contact.

Explain yourself John Winger fan.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 16, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Intentionally hit him harder than necessary

I thought it was a dirty play.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 16, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How would you compare it to the offensive foul on Chandler at the beginning of Game 5 when he hit Parker?

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 16, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because of the result or because of the action itself? Hell, if you actually look at the replay, Horry’s forearm is on West’s butt, not his back. They’re not raised at all, just braced for contact. If he was trying to hurt him, he could have put an elbow into the small of his back, not a forearm on his ass.

When Chandler did the same thing to Parker, I agreed that it was an unfortunate call for NO, because Chandler was planted, even, if he did lean into Tony… and I thought it shouldn’t have been called. I’m not convinced at all that it should have been a foul on Horry.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick.2g on May 16, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Consider a couple of things-
1.) Manu pulled up. This was completely unexpected to Horry, who was expecting the baseline drive. This is part of the need for complete awareness when playing with someone of Manu’s caliber. He’s very unpredictable as a teammate and if you’re manning the block you have to constantly account for this.
2.) West has been man-handling our bigs all series. He’s obviously a very physical and tough player to his credit, and each Spur assigned to cover him is aware that soft and gentle contact will be completely exploited. You guard a player like David West much differently than you guard a player like Shawn Bradley. When you set a pick on West, you SET it; you don’t allow him the opportunity to roll or body you out of position. It’s basketball. And if he was so hurt that anything more than a stiff breeze would put him in traction, he shouldn’t have been on the floor. BScott should be getting the blame here if he was in that delicate a physical state.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 16, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly. Everyone in the media today are simply calling it a “playoff foul”. To somewhat quote them: “If Duncan had been the one doing it, you would say “that’s clean playoff fundamental basketball!” If Ginobili had been the one to do it (instead of the one with the ball) you would have asked “why didn’t he flop?” But since Horry did it, it’s “OMG what a dirty play!!” And to top it off, most of them said if Duncan or Oberto or even Thomas did that, if West hadn’t crumpled to the ground in pain, a fould would not even have been called. Exactly what Bellasa says :)

Horry has been in the league 16 years. Six-teen! And until he hipchecked Nash into the scorer’s table last year, he was hated by everyone because he hit key shots in series. Until then, he was just a good player. One incident cannot brand a player as dirty. It takes a LOT of incidents. If he was in his 2nd or 3rd year in the league, then YES, you can start making that assumption based on Nash/West incidents. But not after SIXTEEN years.

How on Earth can Horry even know that West was going to jump in the air? West clearly went after the ball, Manu was driving baseline, and Horry predicted that he needed to block out West so Manu could get around him. Manu saw something, launched the ball for a pass, West jumped to get it, landed wrong. End of story. In any case, a pick is when one person establishes ground and puts his arms to his sides. That’s exactly what Horry did. Yet everyone who hates it is acting like he reached up, grabbed West’s throat, and elbowed him very hard in his back. Huh?

Besides…you’re down 20+ in the 4th quarter with 8 minutes left. It’s Byron Scott’s fault for leaving him in there if something more than “a stiff breeze” can cause him that much pain. That’s just plain STUPID on the coaching staff’s part.

by Nixiack on May 16, 2008 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is this the return of our resident Whornets troll?

by VWolf on May 16, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who me? Geez I hope not :(

by Nixiack on May 16, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he’s talking about Jake the Snake.

to answer VWolf, I don’t think so. He’s a Blazers fan.

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 16, 2008 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not a troll

Just giving my thoughts. I agree with a lot of what you guys have said in response to my post.

This has been a well officiated series for the most part. Both teams are exactly where they should be… headed to a game 7 I’m very much looking forward to watching.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on May 17, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m really upset at the handful of fans that made San Antonio look like a city full of cheesedicks. I guarantee that was a small % of the crowd that was chanting for Horry

If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a non-working cat.

by Windex40 on May 16, 2008 12:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Please, I saw it live, I’ve seen the tape. It was a clean play.

If you replace Robert with Tim, Fab or Kurt in that same play, then no one makes mention of this maneuver. However, because it was done by one of our “supposed” dirty players, it’s an issue.

Secondly, the chanting was unfortunate and stupid. However, that same crowd cheered when West got back to his feet.

Lastly, if your back is so fragile that you can’t handle a screen, then don’t jump up into it… or better yet, don’t suit up for the game.

I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili

by bellasa on May 16, 2008 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The problem

From a Suns fan: Ultimately, I don’t think this is a “dirty” play. It’s not clean-it was a foul-but it doesn’t strike me as anything more than a hard foul. I doubt Horry wanted to injure him, though I’m pretty sure he wanted it to hurt.

I think the real problems here are:

1) A lot of people still have the Nash play in their head, which makes this look more like a trend than an isolated incident.

2) Manu pulled up. If he had driven, it would have looked more like part of the play as opposed to a deliberate “cheap shot.”

3) Horry, at this point in his career, doesn’t contribute much else, so people only associate him with “big shots” and now “cheap shots.” Duncan fouls like this, and no one thinks it’s intentional because he wouldn’t risk it. Losing Horry isn’t much of a loss (comparatively).

4) The chanting didn’t help.

5) West was hurt.

6) Most importantly, I think many people just don’t like this kind of “playoff” or “man’s” basketball and so they hate to see it succeed. They consider it poor sportsmanship and nothing to do with athletic ability or basketball skill. And I tend to agree with that viewpoint. I’d much prefer a cleaner (what some people call “soft”) game.

Nonetheless, this is how NBA basketball is played. It is less physical than it used to be, but it is still a “man’s” game. And the Spurs are particularly adept at playing that kind of basketball (and that is not to say that’s all they’re good at). This Horry foul is just another, typical example that had a lot of contributing factors to make it stand out. But it wasn’t dirty or really even exceptional by NBA standards. Every team plays this way.

I think many people just have a skewed conception of NBA sportsmanship.

Sven to Benfica! Please, please, please!

by rosewood on May 16, 2008 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree. The chanting was a bit weird, but this is much ado about nothing. What the hell do people think the NBA is church? Give me a break.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 16, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good comment.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick.2g on May 16, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

on the fans reaction

i was there last night and i’d say at least 60% of the arena was chanting “Horry, Horry” because it was pretty damn loud. I chanted it myself and i just wanted to clear up some misconceptions. Since the contact happened away from the play no one really knew what was going on except that Horry got a foul and the crowd chanted Horry’s name on the last foul so most people i think did it again because thats what had already happened when Horry fouled someone. The vast majority of people quieted down when they saw West was hurt, and it took to figure out someone was hurt because his whole team crowded around him, and at least from the cheap seats you couldn’t tell what was going on. Anyways i agree with DennardC this is basketball and not church. It also wasn’t a Nash situation or something like a Shaun Livingston injury, Horry just knocked someone over at least obstensibly on accident and thats all the crowd knew. Besides West is a wuss and I can’t stand that guy and if it were another less annoying player i may have felt bad chanting that after finding out he was really hurt, but i think in a situation like that you have to factor in how much of a douche bag the player is that got hurt and whether on some level he deserves it.

by staves27 on May 16, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was with you until the ‘waiting until seeing who it was’ comment, dude. I don’t think it’s ever cool to cheer an injury, regardless of the douchery of the player hurt. If we were in Nawlins and Manu or TD went down hard and didn’t get up and the crowd was cheering the player who hurt him, we’d all want blood.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 16, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

staves is right.

It was kinda strange last night. I think at the point that this call occurred, the crowd was really into the game and they were cheering for every stop, every foul, every point… just about everything.

I honestly don’t think our crowd realized anyone was hurt when the chanting began. It appeared that the first folks to realize there might be something wrong were those closest to that end of the basket. Then there was kind of a riple effect when the rest of the crowd realized someone might be hurt. Once the crowd finally snapped it got very quiet… then when West stood up the crowd began to applaud the fact that he appeared to be O.K.

Once again stupid and regrettable, but that’s how it seemed to happen.

I am happy. I am proud. - Manu Ginobili

by bellasa on May 16, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can stay.

by sungo on May 16, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, come on Powell. You haven’t banned anybody in almost 24 hours. What’s up with that? Are you getting soft?

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 16, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL. I just had this vision of you sitting high upon a podium in a white robe, lightning bolts at your finger tips ready to zap anyone disobedient.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 16, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Drama Queen

Please, this is all such horseshit. Has no one noticed that EVERY FUCKING GAME, West goes down, scrunches his face, contorts his body, and screams bloody murder as if someone just grabbed his fucking balls, attached ‘em to a runaway horse and whipped that mother to “run forrest run.”? Jesus, freaking christ, west is a drama queen. He does this every fucking game, but of course, no announcer is going to call him out. A game or two ago he went down on a Duncan block (I think), grabbed his knee as though he had been hit with a crowbar, Nancy Kerrigan style. Then, he seemed to realize that replays would show that it wasn’t shit, so he got back up and kept on playing like nothing. Give it up, man, the guy’s a great basketball player, but a fucking drama queen asshole.

by agutierrez on May 16, 2008 3:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

what i don't get

is why the hell the jazz didn’t employ a similar tactic against kobe when he hurt his back. now mind you, i’m not suggesting all out bush league tactics, but in that jazz-laker game kobe was obviously hurt and it was almost like the jazz did the exact opposite; they completely minimized the amount of physical contact kobe had on the defensive end. their shooting guards (brewer and korver) pretty much just hung out at the corners/elbows to spread the floor and employed the same pick and roll and spread the floor tactic without adjusting to kobe’s situation. i know they’re not post players, but why the fuck didn’t they run some rip hamilton type plays with kyle korver and have that white boy running around the mofo through backpicks and screens all over the place and forcing kobe to run around/through physical picks? just curious would anyone consider this bush league in light of this horry thing?

for the record, i don’t think it was a bush league/intentional move on horry’s part, but i think he was clearly aware of his injury and it was a good tactical move setting a hard, but not malicious, pick. i ALSO think, tho, that horry’s mind may be a little bit warped. can you imagine being that 8th man off the bench, struggling to contribute with anything resembling nba game since you have absolutely nothing left… being put in the game solely to use you for fouling shaq and chandler? you’d either loathe/despise your role/question your validity in the game, or embrace the tactical advantage/nature of the game and embrace the role. at that point, what’s an extra push into an injured west amongst enemies, no?

by booth52 on May 16, 2008 3:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

An injured player has a target on his back (figuratively speaking)... and I’m not talking about intentional harm. If you’re injured, then some part of your game is deficient that night. The other team would be absolutely retarded not to take advantage of it. And lest I sound like I’m endorsing a player’s attempt to hurt another player, I’m not. I’m a huge detractor of the “make them earn it at the line” types who think that every foray into the lane should be grounds for putting a vulnerable player to the hardwood.

But if you’ve got an opponent who is hurting, then run them off of screens, make them absorb some contact, and wear them down that much faster. If you’ve got a defender with a weak ankle or hamstring, make them constantly change speed and/or direction, make them play catch-up to their player, or target them with pick-and-roll. All totally legit and sportsmanlike, IMO.

A “sweep-the-leg” tactic is obviously not to be condoned, but I really don’t think Horry was trying to hurt or even harm West. I think he was just bracing himself for the pick. The more I watch the replay, the more I’m convinced it’s just bad luck.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick.2g on May 16, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is spot on. It’s sports in general, a team would be incompetant at best to avoid going directly at a player who was not at 100%. You take that responsibility when you agree to suit up.

And I’m with rick here on being against intentionally roughed up to avoid easy buckets. But I am also more old school in believing that if a player (and I’m looking your direction, CP) insists on penetrating OUR paint repeatedly, he should be put on his ass. I said it during the game that we have 30 fouls among our bigs. Sending a message WITHOUT malicious intent to injure or harm by giving CP the mental pause or fear of driving is part of the game. New Orleans has made a series of doing this to TP. Every successful team earns that mental edge, and it’s very effective. I expect a hard play on ball in this circumstance to create a psychological tool for the rest of the game. On offensive options there after, there will be a greater chance of hesitation or difficult shots if players are not as willing to take it hard to the hole. I don’t think anyone condones FFs or malicious contact, but making a hard play on the ball to prevent an easy lay-up is part of the game.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 16, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is part of the game

So it doesn’t make a lot of sense to call these kinds of plays dirty.

But it doesn’t make a lot of sense to try and draw any kind of meaningful distinction between “putting someone on their ass” or “sending a message” and intending to hurt someone. Putting someone on their ass is exactly how people get hurt. It is not punching or kicking. But the difference between intentionally trying to injure someone with a hard foul and fouling someone so hard that it will “send them a message” is more or less irrelevant.

I wouldn’t say those plays are dirty because that’s how the NBA works. But I would argue they should be punished more severely (all fouls in general) because the reason you have to foul someone so hard is because you lack the defensive ability to keep the man in front of you. Essentially, brute force has to make up for being a good basketball player.

Once again, it’s how the NBA works. But in the long term, I think we should be trying to change the NBA. Of course, that won’t happen. But I can hope.

Sven to Benfica! Please, please, please!

by rosewood on May 16, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the difference between “intentionally trying to injure someone with a hard foul and fouling someone so hard that it will "send them a message"” is VERY relevant! If you’ve played ball, you know the difference. Trying to hurt someone is obvious, you use excessive contact and do not make a clean play on ball to foul. We all know that type of play. But the foul I’m talking about is the ‘protecting the paint’ foul. Every viable big in his prime fouled in this way, and it was always successful. You can foul while ‘sending a message’ without hurting someone, Nawlins has been doing it to Tony all series! If the driver is even somewhat scared to plow through the paint, you have already effectively altered his shot and changed the game! Completely legal, and completely basketball. I started all this just to say that I wish we would at least show CP that driving our lane freely will not go unnoticed, and could carry with it physical play that will give him pause and affect his shot selection.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 16, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You could say that

it’s too late to “show him” what will happen in OUR paint. It’s game 7 coming up. He’s been there often enough to know what it’s like in there. And it’s not all that unwelcoming.

Everytime the Spurs pass the ball like that, an angel gets its wings. - Hipuks in G6 vs NOOCH

by jollyrogerwilco on May 16, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s always going to be a point of contention as far as I can tell. Personally, I don’t like the philosophy which says you need to aggressively & physically protect your basket and deliver hard fouls to every offensive player slashing into the lane, but that’s really a preference more than how I believe the game needs to be played. SiMA subscribes to it, and I can’t really offer a good unbiased rebuttal to why one shouldn’t.

Honestly, my perceptions are probably clouded by the fact that, back when I played, I was small and fast, so I played guard – and I never managed to see any of the positive aspects of getting pasted in the lane. Big guys who played in the paint probably had a different perspective.

No one, tho, is advocating hurting someone intentionally. I don’t really have too much of a problem with aggressive defense and making hard plays on the ball, but when a defensive player just plows through a slasher and only makes a token swipe at the ball, I cringe a little.
The “sending a message” portion is something I’m not a fan of, but I can’t deny that it’s effective, and not really against any rule. It’s a physical game, and strength and endurance matters just as much as agility and speed.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on May 16, 2008 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anybody notice we have a "rick2g" and a "rick.2g"?

by Gino20 on May 17, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s awesome observation, Gino. I hadn’t even noticed that. Mighty strange coincidence, someone joining PtR a mere hour and a half after GS was banned, and sliding in by riding our own rick.2g’s coattails. He’s at least somehow cleaned up his grammar and punctuation and started speaking in coherent sentences though, which leads me to believe it can’t be GS. Worth investigating for sure.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 17, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I’m especially angry because not only did he attempt to steal our rick’s identity, but he referenced SiMA as well. This shit can’t stand.

by SgtinManusArmy on May 17, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

rick2g and rick.2g were both created from the same IP address. They are the same person and not affiliated with trolls.

by sungo on May 19, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you are such a dream crusher

by Wayne Vore (ATS) on May 19, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the reason the Jazz leave Kobe alone is the fact that he is getting the Wade treatment in these playoffs. Game 5 from thier series was a prime example…look at his stat line :

Kobe Bryant, SG 41 6-10 1-2 13-17 0 6 6 7 2 0 4 3 26

He went to the line almost the exact same amount of times (and shot almost 2x FT more) than he SHOT THE BALL. And this is when they avoided contact with him as if he had the plague!! Since one of thier players(Turiaf) got ejected in Game 4 for what everyone else looked at and went “playoff foul” the Jazz could ill afford doing anything that remotely looked like what Horry “did” to West. All Kobe has to do is crumple to the ground on contact going to the basket and they probably would hit the Jazz player defending him with a Flagrant 1. sigh

by Nixiack on May 16, 2008 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

blah blah! if anyone in their right mind (who plays basketball) thinks that was a dirty foul… they have to be smoking crack. what about game 4 when tony parker backed into chandler? you can’t tell me chandler didn’t know parker was going to back right into him at full speed. it happens. its a game. its intense and people get physical. come one, i am sick of this baby bs everyone has to write and talk about. screw that, its a game. get over it! i can promise horry is.

yeah, the spurs are boss

by moognish on May 16, 2008 4:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Besides, if West wasn’t even hurt, this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

by Linix129 on May 16, 2008 5:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

A whole Internet day visiting various blogs and everyone talks about this stupid foul. I’m already fed up.

I say “whatever”. Let other people worry about this. We have a game 7 in our hands, guys. We need to win or go home.

by LatinD on May 16, 2008 7:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It was the jump itself that fucked his back up- not horry. if your having back spasms during a playoff game- anytime you fully extend yourself to jump with full power, this is gonna happen every time. i dont give a flying fuck who bumped ya.

JEFE666

by jefe666 on May 16, 2008 8:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

as someone who once had a similar injury, I can completely agree with that.

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick2g on May 17, 2008 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I agree with LatinD: Back to business and whipping that Hornet @ss!

Does anyone know if Bowen ever guarded West in any games, regular or post season? I don’t think he has. I know we can’t allow Peja to score from the outside and that’s why Bruce is on him. If Peja was out of the game, couldn’t Bowen guard West? Bowen guarded Dirk before and he has more of a post game than does West. I don’t think it might help now because West is hurt somewhat, so I would keep perhaps Horry on him and have RH be physical with him the entire game. Force him to drive and not settle for those easy set shots. I don’t think West is going to be a factor in game 7. We need to make sure Paul doesn’t take over the game. Keep Horry, Oberto, and Kurt on West and use all 18 fouls with physical play. Our three headed monster affects West’s behavior and that takes him out of his game. Have Bowen guard Paul becaise Paul can’t stand Bowen and Manu on Peja. Then set screens for Manu all day for offensive threes. Make him score 40 pts when they double team Timmy. I don’t think the Hornets wouldn’t know what hit them.

James Stewart

by BigDaddyStewDog on May 17, 2008 1:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

Well in games 1 and 2 Bowen tried guarding Paul and got abused by his points, assist and Peja’s 3’s. That’s why Pop switched him to Peja. Bowen only needs to guard Paul off and on. Also, Bowen is a great perimeter defender but you can’t expect him to be able to bang with West. West would punish Bowen on the inside. It would be the “David West Post Up Show” all night long. We’ve been effective on D when we’ve had Duncan on West, Bowen & (sometimes Ime when Bruce guards Paul) on Peja, KT & Fab on Chandler, Parker & (sometimes Bowen) on Paul and Manu on Mo Pete.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on May 17, 2008 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was just curious if Bowen ever guarded West. Bowen seems to get under a lot of players’ skins, and West is a loose cannon. But I still think Dirk is a better post up player (if you call that) than West. He loves that set shot of his, and when you force him to drive he gets out of rhythm on his shot. But Bowen can’t guard everyone. I’d still like to see it a couple of times to see what West could do. The question would be who would shut down Peja if Bowen didn’t guard him.
I think we should really have Horry guard West until he fouls out since Bowen won’t guard him. Horry is the only one that seems to be physical on our team. But if Duncan guards him again he better step up and prove that he’s on that nba all defensive team. I also would like to see more high screen and rolls with Duncan on top. This seems to open Tony’s game a lot.
We really need Chandler on the outside, Tony driving, and Manu shooting the tre.

James Stewart

by BigDaddyStewDog on May 17, 2008 2:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remember Bowen getting abused by Bonzi against Sacto? Bowen against West would be like that but ten times worse.

by VWolf on May 17, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

1 it wasn’t a dirty foul
2 it wasn’t a foul
3 suspend horry anyways, who is going to complain?

dave mcnulla
spurs fan

by dmcnulla on May 17, 2008 1:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice logo

I don’t think it was a foul either, but since West fell the ref thought he should call it. But no suspension. Would any other Spur player do what Horry did in that situation? Perhaps only Oberto and Dennis Rodman and maybe Dwayne Schnitzus. Kidding aside, I still think it was a legal play but it was curious to see that Horry did it and it was right in his back.
Does anyone know his status for Monday? I’ve read a little about pinch nerves and recovery times. I’m sure he’ll play but it won’t be at 100%. Spurs need to take advantage of that and limit Paul because he might try to take the game over cause Tony is too nice to him and doesn’t guard him.

James Stewart

by BigDaddyStewDog on May 17, 2008 3:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

lol, there are people out there saying the Hornets should write to the NBA or come out stating that Horry should NOT be suspended. If Horry gets suspended, that frees up time for Ime to come in and play a LOT of minutes….that will actually be more beneficial than anything for the Spurs. A.K.A. almost a guaranteed win lol :) So pray Horry gets suspended for 1 game!

Psh….yes, any other of the Spurs would have done that. Duncan, Thomas, Oberto, anyone. And for the 100th time, if they would have done it, this would not be up for discussion. Only because it was Horry. :(

by Nixiack on May 17, 2008 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This made for an interesting read.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA051708.09C.BKNspurs.notebook.36047ee.html

For the first time EVER, i was dissappointed by the attending fans. Cheering when any man is down is sad. I know emotions are running high, so I’ll let it go. I hope everyone else can.

by Onthebeach on May 17, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

anybody who cheers an injury is a no class fool. on the other hand, i didn’t actually hear the chant while watching the tv, so it coud not have been that many people.

dave mcnulla
spurs fan

by dmcnulla on May 17, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shoudln’t Chandler be fined for his comments? He is saying that bad calls swung the game in the Spurs’ favor. I think they had a slew of calls go against them in succession, but almost all of them were unquestionably fouls.

by VWolf on May 17, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not so sure about that second offensive foul on CP. And there was another foul that seemed iffy to me at the time, but I can’t recall which.

by LatinD on May 17, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That looked pretty legit to me. He hit Tim with a pretty good amount of force.

by VWolf on May 17, 2008 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was West’s offensive foul. Yeah, that was legit.

I meant that second offensive foul on Paul when he was on a fast break and seemingly pushed Bowen.

by LatinD on May 18, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right, sorry I missed that you were talking about CfloP3. Bowen definitely sold that second offensive foul, but since the flopper has pushed off about 100 times in this series so far with only 2 whistles, I am not too concerend about that one.

by VWolf on May 19, 2008 3:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They have record that Paul was at the scorers table saying “it’s like the NBA called at halftime and said “let these boys win”. But he had said it in the game, not afterwards. IF the NBA even looks at this(at this time they have said no) then yes, Chandler should get fined.

But this is good news honestly :) Just think…the Hornets think the refs are out to get them, etc…if the Spurs stay close or (GASP) actually go with the lead in the 3rd, that’s just 100% more chance for West/etc. to have the meltdown we are waiting for :)

by Nixiack on May 17, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

After a couple of drinks and cigarettes, my dad said he hopes he is injured forever :|

by Linix129 on May 17, 2008 12:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

take this post down. its senseless and idiotic. it is a typical post by a bee fan based on something so minute. the hype of this play is ridiculous. it happened. this shit doesn’t get written up in .00000000234234 of a second anyone could even have time to react properly. go play some basketball and then tell me shit doesnt happen in the heat of the moment. dick head post. please take it down

yeah, the spurs are boss

by moognish on May 17, 2008 5:16 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs